The Angelus

gucci

Don't care.

Cactus Col wrote:

***The problem here isn't rte, but the moany ****ers looking for something to find offensive.

ding ding ding we have a winner!!
spot on comment, religious people dont find it offensive, unreligous people shouldnt let it bother them 1 min out of the 1440 mins available in one day with bells is not exactly rte partaking in the crusades, and you have the choice to watch or not to watch,or to watch with the sound off if them christian bells are so offensive, what with theyre godly ringing sound and the like...think theyre so great dont they

Jimoslimos

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

I'm not religious but don't mind it. Its only 1 minute and if a few people gain spiritual enlightenment then I guess its served its purpose. Anyway its no worse than what we're usually subjected to - sh1te ads and endless trailers for whatever american dross sitcom has been imported.

mikedragon32

Don't care.

If thou likest it not, then changeth the channel. The power of your remote control compels thee!

As a non-practicing catholic, I would rather sit through the Angelus for 60 seconds than any two ads that are being shown on most other channels at the same time.

Has PC-ness come full circle now that in order to be inclusive of all faiths, one must denounce their own?

Sleepy

Cactus Col wrote:

**** sake, this seems like a thread for people looking for something to complain about.

What's wrong with RTE broadcasting it, in changing what's shown on screen from the old religious icon, to what they have now, it's clear that rte regards it as a call for prayer and reflection, regardless of what religion the viewer is.

The problem here isn't rte, but the moany ****ers looking for something to find offensive.

Are you so closed-minded that you don't understand that for those of us who aren't Catholic, particularly those of us who are directly opposed to organised religion, it's a complete slap in the face to have to pay for Catholic propaganda?

I *highly* doubt that the Catholic church are paying for the daily prime-time advert that is the Angelus and resent that RTE waste my licence revenue on such crap.

Sangre

Leave it. It's grand.

Religion aside I know a fair few Catholics who oppose it as they are ardent supporters of the seperation of state and church.

Mrs_Doyle

Don't care.

It would be a slap in the face to those who are Catholic, and who practice their religion, to remove it.

Even if a Boards poll showed that 99% of people would prefer it if the Angelus were not shown on our Televisions, it would not be an accurate reflection of what the majority of TV license payers want.

There are a lot of people who want the Angelus to remain aired on our Televisions, especially in rural area's, and although that may be a slap in the face to those who do not follow the Catholic religion, the harsh reality is that majority rules.

Sleepy wrote:

Are you so closed-minded that you don't understand that for those of us who aren't Catholic, particularly those of us who are directly opposed to organised religion, it's a complete slap in the face to have to pay for Catholic propaganda?

I *highly* doubt that the Catholic church are paying for the daily prime-time advert that is the Angelus and resent that RTE waste my licence revenue on such crap.

Sangre

Leave it. It's grand.

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

It would be a slap in the face to those who are Catholic, and who practice their religion, to remove it.

No it wouldn't be, anyone who is holy enough to follow the angelus would make the effort to know what time it is and follow in the privacy of their home. You're not telling them can't do it.

Your Man

Don't care.

Jimoslimos wrote:

minuteAnyway its no worse than what we're usually subjected to - sh1te ads and endless trailers for whatever american dross sitcom has been imported.

exactly...
were a catholic country ffs just because in recent years a load of muslims etc have arrived in ireland doesnt mean we should change that.
Political correctness my arse

connundrum

Sangre wrote:

Religion aside I know a fair few Catholics who oppose it as they are ardent supporters of the seperation of state and church.

I would always support the notion of seperation of state and church, but only when its done from the very start. If Ireland was to be born now, the church would be here <---- and the state would be over there ----> and everything would be seperate and there'd be no undue influence from any group.

But what has happened is that the church has helped build this country, whether we likes it or not. If we were to say that the church are to have no hand in the running of anything to do with the general public, what'd happen to our education system?

I think that the Angelus will die out slowly by itself, and it should be let do so. I don't care about Catholicism enough to get my feathers ruffled about a few bells at 6pm. When I was in Turkey recently I didn't care at all about The Muslim Prayer Call which happened 5 times a day. At least we can get away from the Angelus by switching channel

Cactus Col

Don't care.

Sleepy wrote:

Are you so closed-minded that you don't understand that for those of us who aren't Catholic, particularly those of us who are directly opposed to organised religion, it's a complete slap in the face to have to pay for Catholic propaganda?

I *highly* doubt that the Catholic church are paying for the daily prime-time advert that is the Angelus and resent that RTE waste my licence revenue on such crap.

Catholic propaganda? ... the Church of Ireland regard it as a peaceful and wonderful piece of work.

It really is your ignorant viewpoint that's at fault though. The angelus is broadcast to mark a time in the day when people can stop to pray, or reflect, regardless of religous belief.

Mrs_Doyle

Don't care.

Sangre wrote:

No it wouldn't be, anyone who is holy enough to follow the angelus would make the effort to know what time it is and follow in the privacy of their home. You're not telling them can't do it.

Be that as it may, there are a lot of people who want to see it, there are a lot of advertisers who pay big money to advertise just before it.
From a purely business perspective, as long as the audience warrants it, that 60seconds of air time will broadcast the Angelus.

Jimoslimos

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Sleepy wrote:

Are you so closed-minded that you don't understand that for those of us who aren't Catholic, particularly those of us who are directly opposed to organised religion, it's a complete slap in the face to have to pay for Catholic propaganda?

I *highly* doubt that the Catholic church are paying for the daily prime-time advert that is the Angelus and resent that RTE waste my licence revenue on such crap.

I regard having to pay for whatever crap soap / imported sitcom RTE have on as a slap in the face. A national broadcaster cannot please ALL of the people ALL of the time. The point was made that many people (particularly older) in rural communities would not want it abolished - these people paying their license fee for many years - should RTE disregard their views?

As for propaganda.....if you consider 60 seconds of ringing bells and people staring into space...well then you're easily swayed. Fact is most of what is on TV these days could be regarded as thinly disguised propaganda

Flukey

Don't care.

Even if you are non-Catholic or non-Christian, but of some other religion, you can use it as a moment of reflection. If you are not of any religion, it is only a minute at midday and a minute at 6pm. It does no harm to you. Let it be. There are religious of programmes of all sorts, featuring different religions, on RTE and other channels. The Angelus is just a minute long.

tolosenc

Just to clarify, I meant the TV broadcast, not the general ringing of bells in churches/praying. I have nothing against that.

crosstownk

Don't care.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. When it comes on, I'm usually waiting for the news so I don't turn it off. I do find myself reflecting on things (not religious) or simply thinking about the events of the day or planning things in my head for the evening. Essentially, I ignore it for what it's supposed to be, but I do benefit to some extent from the fact that I'm ignoring it.

Does that make any sense? I thought not.

D-Generate

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not a Catholic or Christian but I do like the idea of a minutes reflection time. Its kind of nicer than being bombarded by the latest Daft Dave ad or some equally inane ad. To be honest it isn't exactly even that religious any more. I think it is almost even billed as a moment of reflection which is interdenominational. Maybe if you folks took a minute to relax each day then you wouldn't moan so much or be so agrieved over a few chiming bells and some pensive looks.

tolosenc

People say they don't want more ads. Agreed. But would it not be that the news would start at 6? Or is 6.01 too much of an institution?

wow sierra

Don't care.

I'm not religious but I think 60 seconds of quiet time away from commercialism on TV is no harm. If people use it to reflect/pray/whatever then great - I'm afraid I ignore it. If I thought genuinely religious people of other faiths were seriously offended by it then I would be happy to see it removed - the reality is to my knowledge they don't care.
Sleepy: As regards the negative comment about organised religions, while it does form the basis of conflict, by in large they are a positive force in communities, giving solace in times of illness, poverty, death etc as well as giving rituals to our happy times like births and marriages. There are lots of other things in life you could put you energy into opposing - like poverty, injustive, rampart commercialism etc.

Gran Hermano

Time to get rid me thinks.

Seeing as they are retiring Larry Gogan from 2FM maybe they should
chuck out the gong show at the same time - do a proper spring clean
of all the old muck carried over from last century.

As for comments regarding how advertisers pay good money for slots
before the bells, I think it's more a case of advertisers paying for slots
before the news - it's just incidental that the god-squad's bells ring
between the ads and the news. Surely there cant be that many
campanolgists left out there! And the excuse that it's a 'moment
for reflecting' is a load of cojones, I dont pay a tv license fee for
spiritual guidance. Reminds me of the old Prayer at Bedtime muck they
used to show, who appointed the state broadcaster to decide when one
should retire for the night?

Sleepy

A few posters to reply to hear so forgive the length of this post...

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

It would be a slap in the face to those who are Catholic, and who practice their religion, to remove it.

Even if a Boards poll showed that 99% of people would prefer it if the Angelus were not shown on our Televisions, it would not be an accurate reflection of what the majority of TV license payers want.

There are a lot of people who want the Angelus to remain aired on our Televisions, especially in rural area's, and although that may be a slap in the face to those who do not follow the Catholic religion, the harsh reality is that majority rules.

As Sangre pointed out, the removal of the Angelus would not be a slap in the face to the religious as it's not preventing them from practicing the tradition in their own homes. IMHO, it's only those who feel they have the right to impose their faith on others that would have cause for concern at it's removal.

Cactus Col wrote:

Catholic propaganda? ... the Church of Ireland regard it as a peaceful and wonderful piece of work.

It really is your ignorant viewpoint that's at fault though. The angelus is broadcast to mark a time in the day when people can stop to pray, or reflect, regardless of religous belief.

Well, it's clear that despite the Celtic Tiger and free education backwards thinking still prevails in Ireland when people believe the separation of church and state is ignorant :rolleyes: The Angelus is a devotion in memory of the incarnation of Christ as man. How can you say this is something relevant to any non-Christian? Learn what you're talking about before dismissing others as ignorant.

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

From a purely business perspective, as long as the audience warrants it, that 60seconds of air time will broadcast the Angelus.

All well and good if it were being broadcast on the God Channel or even TV3, it's not, however: it's being broadcast by a state-funded station which is completely unnacceptable.

Jimoslimos wrote:

I regard having to pay for whatever crap soap / imported sitcom RTE have on as a slap in the face. A national broadcaster cannot please ALL of the people ALL of the time. The point was made that many people (particularly older) in rural communities would not want it abolished - these people paying their license fee for many years - should RTE disregard their views?

In this instance, yes. A democracy cannot claim to support freedom of religious expression whilst broadcasting the rituals of one religion on a daily basis.

As for propaganda.....if you consider 60 seconds of ringing bells and people staring into space...well then you're easily swayed. Fact is most of what is on TV these days could be regarded as thinly disguised propaganda

Personally, I consider 60 seconds of ringing bells a mild annoyance (similar attitude to Fair City I must admit). It's the fact that the state broadcaster is providing airtime that I'm paying for to a religion that annoys me. It's the same as the Board of Education paying teachers to prepare children for their First Communion: a completely inappropriate (mis)use of public funds.

Wow Sierra wrote:

Sleepy: As regards the negative comment about organised religions, while it does form the basis of conflict, by in large they are a positive force in communities, giving solace in times of illness, poverty, death etc as well as giving rituals to our happy times like births and marriages. There are lots of other things in life you could put you energy into opposing - like poverty, injustive, rampart commercialism etc.

It's an entirely different topic and one I've taken part in debating many times on boards.ie but I believe in the complete separation of church and state. To my mind religion is the exact opposite of education and imho, education is the key to ensuring our children's world will be better than the one we live in. It's the closest thing we have to a silver bullet.

For those of you claiming the Angelus as "a moment of reflection", I'd ask you what's in a name? Would you be okay with the Adhan being broadcast if we decided to call it 'a moment of reflection' too?

Mrs_Doyle

Don't care.

Sleepy wrote:

All well and good if it were being broadcast on the God Channel or even TV3, it's not, however: it's being broadcast by a state-funded station which is completely unnacceptable.

RTE is a public service provider, the majority of long term license payers are in favour of the Angelus, and until that changes the Angelus will remain to be broadcast on RTE.

Sleepy

You're kind of missing the point here aren't ya Mrs_Doyle?

It doesn't matter if the majority of a country are of one faith or another, using the state broadcasting network to endorse one faith (or group of faiths) over another (or no faith) is simply unacceptable in the democratic world.

A huge stretch here but the same principle: if the majority religion of a country holds FGM as one of it's traditions should the national health service perform this 'surgery' at the taxpayer's expense?

The separation of church and state is something which should be absolute. No good can come out of anything else.

Mrs_Doyle

Don't care.

Sleepy wrote:

You're kind of missing the point here aren't ya Mrs_Doyle?

It doesn't matter if the majority of a country are of one faith or another, using the state broadcasting network to endorse one faith (or group of faiths) over another (or no faith) is simply unacceptable in the democratic world.

A huge stretch here but the same principle: if the majority religion of a country holds FGM as one of it's traditions should the national health service perform this 'surgery' at the taxpayer's expense?

The separation of church and state is something which should be absolute. No good can come out of anything else.

I think you are missing the point.
You are in a minority, slap in the face or not, I really don't think the Angelus will not be removed for non believers, nor will it be removed for those of different religions.

I realise you have a gripe here, but I honestly don't see the point in you getting worked up over it. I really don't see it making any difference, not for the next few years anyhow.

Of course I don't expect you to just Shut up and Put up, I just think that perhaps a more realistic approach be adopted.

If you really feel strongly about it, why not draft a 5 or 10 year plan which would eventually result in the Angelus being taken off the air waves and present it to the people, so as to gage their support for the idea.

tbh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

RTE is a public service provider, the majority of long term license payers are in favour of the Angelus, and until that changes the Angelus will remain to be broadcast on RTE.

Exactly! in the long tradition of Upwardly Mobile, Leave it To Mrs. O'Brien, Ryan Confidential, Tubridy Tonight, The Afternoon Show, Celebrity Jigs and Reels, The Farm, The Showhouse, etc. etc. etc.

It's a case of RTE giving the people what they want, and nothing at all to do with them not having the balls to take the Angelus off the air.

Mossy Monk

couldn't RTÉ scrap all reference to religion for this one minute of "reflection" and call it something else

tbh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Mossy Monk wrote:

couldn't RTÉ scrap all reference to religion for this one minute of "reflection" and call it something else

what?? and let the foreigners win??!?

Cactus Col

Don't care.

Sleepy wrote:

A few posters to reply to hear so forgive the length of this post...


Well, it's clear that despite the Celtic Tiger and free education backwards thinking still prevails in Ireland when people believe the separation of church and state is ignorant :rolleyes: The Angelus is a devotion in memory of the incarnation of Christ as man. How can you say this is something relevant to any non-Christian? Learn what you're talking about before dismissing others as ignorant.

No, this is the Angelus:

"V/. The Angel of the Lord brought tidings unto Mary,
R/. And she conceived by the Holy Ghost.


Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.


V/. "Behold the handmaid of the Lord."
R/. "Be it unto me according to thy Word."


Hail Mary, full of grace...


V/. And the Word was made flesh,
R/. And dwelt among us.


Hail Mary, full of grace...


V/. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
R/. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.



Let us pray: We beseech thee, O Lord, pour thy grace into our hearts, that as we have known the Incarnation of thy Son Jesus Christ by the message of an angel, so by his Cross and Passion we may be brought unto the glory of his Resurrection; through the same Christ our Lord. Amen."

What is broadcast on RTE are bells ringing.
RTE's viewpoint is exactly that, the angelus can be used as a moment to pray, or as a moment of reflection.

What I was calling ignorant is your (and other people on this thread) refusal to let it evolve beyond it's christian origins.

For those of you claiming the Angelus as "a moment of reflection", I'd ask you what's in a name? Would you be okay with the Adhan being broadcast if we decided to call it 'a moment of reflection' too?

but the problem with that argument is that it isn't the actual Angelus that's been broadcast.

If people were saying that RTE shouldn't broadcast Mass on sunday mornings, I'd be in agreement.

Mossy Monk

tbh wrote:

what?? and let the foreigners win??!?

what have foreigners got to do with this?

tbh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Mossy Monk wrote:

what have foreigners got to do with this?

I was being sarcastic, but I suppose it's a dumb point (on my part). What I was trying to say is that a lot of people who want the angelus to remain on the telly want it simply because that's the way it's always been. There's nothing really wrong with that, but IMO, it's not reason enough to keep it.

Sleepy

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I think you are missing the point.
You are in a minority, slap in the face or not, I really don't think the Angelus will not be removed for non believers, nor will it be removed for those of different religions.

I realise you have a gripe here, but I honestly don't see the point in you getting worked up over it. I really don't see it making any difference, not for the next few years anyhow.

Of course I don't expect you to just Shut up and Put up, I just think that perhaps a more realistic approach be adopted.

If you really feel strongly about it, why not draft a 5 or 10 year plan which would eventually result in the Angelus being taken off the air waves and present it to the people, so as to gage their support for the idea.

LOL, a 5 or 10 year plan? This isn't exactly advanced economic policy!

I accept that it's unlikely to change any time soon, that however can be applied to many things that are wrong with our country and this world.