Supplements

quirkster

dude id stay well away from maximuscle if your looking to increase size.

its well known that their products are terrible compared to what else is available, for much less cost.
however now that you have the product, you shud try get the best out of it, and do some research so you can get better quality for your money next time:)

i utterly despise the taste of the majority of shakes i have, but i find that adding a little less water, and taking a deep breath and chugging it is the best. breathe through your mouth and the taste will be minimal!
experiment with apple/orange juice etc if you dont want to chug, i know with other supplements, they enhance the taste!

opr

quirkster wrote: »

if your not getting enough protein, you will not grow.
you should aim for at least 1 gram of protein per pound of your bodyweight.most people need whey to supplement this amount.
its way more convienient to make a shake, than to fry up some chicken fillets, which is why, anyone who is serious about putting on muscle will use whey protein

(could someone please answer these for me)

How much protein is this in terms of real food ?

Let say i am around 165lbs , In a normal balanced diet what kinds of thing produce lots of protein and how much would i need to eat in terms of that food for my body to grow ?

Lets say i am eating 2/3 scrambled eggs each morning and a chicken fillet later on obviously with other foods but these being the main protein rich things i would eat. Is this enough in my daily diet to put on muscle ?

Do i only need to make sure i have loads of protein on the days i excercise ?

How detrimental is not eating enough protein if i am weight training pretty hard 3/4 times a week ? Is the weight training just a waste of time without it ?

Opr

quirkster

others might say different, but i believe it is ALMOST a waste, if your not getting enough protein.
and its as important to take it on 'off' days aswell, because this is when your body is growing and needing all the nutrients and protein it can get, to repair and build the muscle your previously worked.

Its advised that you get as much of your daily protein target from real food, however this is not always do-able. hence, we have shakes.
i have 4/5 shakes a day and eat plenty of tuna and steak etc.

i know an egg has roughly 7grams of protein and a breast of chicken might have 17/18 grams

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

theres a very good link, if you want to get technical!

you should be getting between 160 and 170 grams of protein a day

opr

quirkster wrote: »

others might say different, but i believe it is ALMOST a waste, if your not getting enough protein.
and its as important to take it on 'off' days aswell, because this is when your body is growing and needing all the nutrients and protein it can get, to repair and build the muscle your previously worked.

Its advised that you get as much of your daily protein target from real food, however this is not always do-able. hence, we have shakes.
i have 4/5 shakes a day and eat plenty of tuna and steak etc.

i know an egg has roughly 7grams of protein and a breast of chicken might have 17/18 grams

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

theres a very good link, if you want to get technical!

you should be getting between 160 and 170 grams of protein a day

Thanks for that few more , it pretty obvious then i am not getting enough protein.

I am pretty new to this as for the last 4 months i was trying to lose weight. When you say "4/5 shakes" a day ... What does this mean ? Are these something you buy in a shop ? Do you make them up yourself ? What would you recommend i use ?

Opr

quirkster

4/5 shakes mean, that throughout the day ill take 4/5 (not each time, all through the day) scoops of protein powder and add water to them in a mixer to make whats commonly called a shake.
a scoop of protein powder from any reputable company will contain between 22 and 26 grams of protein.

you buy a tub of protein powder in the shop, and work from that in ur home or whatever.

the cheapest and best quality that ive found, is 40 euro for a 5lb tub of IDS (the name of the company), from universalnutrition.ie

they deliver free, and throw in a free mixer aswell

hope that helps:)

Do you work for universalnutrition.ie? You have pimped that site so much.

quirkster

i know ya i was thinking that when i wrote it out for like the 7th time haha!no im just a frequent poster and customer and believe they are the best value supplement shop in ireland...

Davei141

Pretty sure chicken has way more protein than you give it credit for .

kevpants

quirkster wrote: »

i have 4/5 shakes a day

:eek:

That's a little shocking TBH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTVqv2MCAA

The wry smiles and knowing looks say it all in this vid.

What do you do Quirkster? Is it bodybuilding? I take it form your posts you're quite young.

There seems to be a culture emerging of "if the supplementation is right the rest will fall into place". The thing is diet and protein intake are secondary to training. You can get seriously big and seriously strong on a crap diet. Even if that diet doesn't provide the protein touted as essential (1g per lb of bodyweight), I'd say I rarely get this. Calories are nearly more important if you ask me. I know I'm standing alone in alot of my anti-supplement comments but I think the tide needs to be stemmed somewhat. Beginners coming on here should here both sides of the story, from guys drinking 4/5 shakes a day to a guy who has a shake after training if it's too late to cook.

I mean look at what Dave Tate was eating before John Berardi got his hands on him. One of the strongest guys out there and he was eating mostly pop tarts.

I'm not pushing people towards bad diet but a lot of people in supplement companies are getting very rich. A lot more rich than their customers are getting strong.

Spot on Kevpants. 4 to 5 shakes a day? Not for me. A complete waste of time and money.

opr

Thanks for that guy its great to hear the other side. Maybe if i give a little background you could advise me a little further.

I was overweight and very unfit which i decided to change a few months back. Since then i have been in the GYM at least three times a week, often 4 times and occasionally 5-6.

I had been training for about 13 weeks doing the following.

15-30 minutes - Treadmill (Every session)
15-30 minutes - x-Trainer (Every session)

1000-2000 metres - Rower (I hated rowing and really only did this about once every week)

Weights consisted of 10 different excersies

Chest press, seated row, lat pull, should press , leg press , leg curl , bicep curl , tricep curl doing 10-14 reps of 2-3 sets.

Diet was very minimal something like this

Breakfast - Scrambled egg + water
Afternoon - wholemeal bread toasted + tea
Dinner - Chicken fillet + veg etc
Night - Beans + toast

I have never been a big eater the problem was i got in a huge habit of eating loads of junk food , takeaways etc.

I went from around 13.5 to my current weight of 11.5 stone which it more or less my ideal weight.

Now i am trying to do more weight sessions and would like to put on some upper body muscle. I still have some weight around the stomach that i would like to shift but i know that the only way of doing this is to lose fat from all over. This is my second week of the new training schedule. I am doing 5 sessions a week of up to 2hours with a mix of cardio, a new weight program and abs+oblique exercises.

Would increasing the above diet a little with maybe another protein rich meal and also adding an after training shake be ok ? I am just a little worried that i am training hard at the minute and am maybe burning muscle rather than fat ? Or just not getting enough in general of what i need for what my body is doing ?

Opr

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

:eek:

That's a little shocking TBH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTVqv2MCAA

The wry smiles and knowing looks say it all in this vid.

What do you do Quirkster? Is it bodybuilding? I take it form your posts you're quite young.

There seems to be a culture emerging of "if the supplementation is right the rest will fall into place". The thing is diet and protein intake are secondary to training. You can get seriously big and seriously strong on a crap diet. Even if that diet doesn't provide the protein touted as essential (1g per lb of bodyweight), I'd say I rarely get this. Calories are nearly more important if you ask me. I know I'm standing alone in alot of my anti-supplement comments but I think the tide needs to be stemmed somewhat. Beginners coming on here should here both sides of the story, from guys drinking 4/5 shakes a day to a guy who has a shake after training if it's too late to cook.

I mean look at what Dave Tate was eating before John Berardi got his hands on him. One of the strongest guys out there and he was eating mostly pop tarts.

I'm not pushing people towards bad diet but a lot of people in supplement companies are getting very rich. A lot more rich than their customers are getting strong.

Good post dude.

Don't worry tho, I think quirkster's training is all set. He does plenty of clean and sweeps!! :D:D

quirkster

ive been training properly for a year and a half and i suppose youd call it bodybuilding!dont get me wrong, i dont believe at all at all at all that supplements are magic.
when my classmates or whatever ask me what supplement will get them huge, i tell them, you will not grow without training. however, i also believe without protein you will not grow, thats a scientific fact.

whole foods are much better sources of nutrients, unfortunetly, as a student i cant always afford to cook chicken breasts and steaks for my protein source, so i turn to shakes!

in my opinion training and diet go hand in hand, you'll hear alot of major, competitive bodybuilders say that theyd rather miss a training session than miss a meal

hanley i have never once done a clean and sweep

kevpants

quirkster wrote: »

ive been training properly for a year and a half and i suppose youd call it bodybuilding!dont get me wrong, i dont believe at all at all at all that supplements are magic.
when my classmates or whatever ask me what supplement will get them huge, i tell them, you will not grow without training. however, i also believe without protein you will not grow, thats a scientific fact.

whole foods are much better sources of nutrients, unfortunetly, as a student i cant always afford to cook chicken breasts and steaks for my protein source, so i turn to shakes!

in my opinion training and diet go hand in hand, you'll hear alot of major, competitive bodybuilders say that theyd rather miss a training session than miss a meal

hanley i have never once done a clean and sweep

No worries Quirkster. The only thing I'd say is maybe practice a little more humility in the posts, at your stage I'm sure you're motoring away and doing plenty of good things but you're doing plenty bad too. There's not a lifter out there who didn't when they were 18. Your enthusiasm is evident but if you make matter of fact statements about training or diet you'd better be damn sure it's right or it will be picked apart, a lot of grumpy seasoned athletes here!

quirkster

your right, im not liking the little mob thats assembling at my url with pitchforks!
oh curse my 18 years driven attiude of 'i know it all'!
apologies to all offended haha!

Discount Supp.

T Corolla wrote: »

Does anyone on this forum use whey protein I am thinking of purchasing some. Is it any good and what are the best brands to purchase.

Whey protein is perfect for before and after training, if your taking it at other times of the day take it with fibre or healthy fats like udos oil,olive oil or natural peanut butter. This will slow the rate at which your body absorbs the protein.

Ideally you want a casein protein or at least a blended protein containing whey and casein to take during the day. Good brands include BSN, Optimum Nutrition and IDS.

Discount Supp.

beggars_bush wrote: »

just want to ask something

had been using RAM from nutrition x for the post workout shake, along with good meals within an hour of finishing the session. i don't use a pre workout shake, but make sure i've eaten protein during the day - eggs, tuna, milk before the gym

does this stuff actually work? i noticed i ended up passing a lot more fluid than i do when not using it. not sure if it was aiding muscle recovery or not

does it make much more of a difference?

RAM does work, it has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein(2:1). Throw in some creatine and you have a really good post workout shake. Nutrition X also have a great new product called powerloader which contains waxy maize and creatine.

Within an hour after your pwo shake have your ppwo meal containing lean protein, complex carbs and healthy fats

Discount Supp.

Hanley wrote: »

Not really sure how good an idea a waxy maize and protein combo is tbh…. The whole idea of waxy maize is that it bypasses everything and does its job as quickly as possible. Taking whey with it would only slow it down, defeating the purporse. AFAIK the recommendatino with WMS is to take it immediately after training and wait approx. 30 minutes before you get your protein in.

I actually have a tub of WMS in my car that I keep meaning to use. I must try it and see. My training partner swears by it.

It doesn't make much of a difference by taking both together or seperate, both are fast acting. Try 2 scoops of wms, 2 scoops of optimum gold standard whey(includes 8g glutamine) and 5-10g of creatine for the perfect post workout shake. Then have your meal 30-60 mins later.

redfan

read great thing about this stuff
just want to put the feelers out on here first . it seems inexpencive and 90 caps in the tub .

and probably about 6 tabs a day required.

Is it not just a standard zinc supplement?

Brian?

redfan wrote: »

read great thing about this stuff
just want to put the feelers out on here first . it seems inexpencive and 90 caps in the tub .

I had a google there, looks like you'd be better off eating some steak or shellfish. Tastier as well.

http://www.weightlossforall.com/foods-rich-zinc.htm

quirkster

pretty sure its a regular ZMA supp.will help increase testosterone production, i was using primaforce ZMA but got an outbreak of acne which i attributed to higher test levels from the ZMA so i stopped

Southern Dandy

When is the best time to take creatine? ive looked at dozens of articles each one contradicting the other, should i take pre or post workout or both? should i take it twice a day? (i only take it once a day)

Started a post a bit back in the fitness sec but didnt give me much info

Cheers

This basically comes down to your goals. However the essential time to take it would be after a workout in my opinion or else first thing in the morning, then again I don't really think it matters. I don't use the stuff ever anymore.

Bren Sheehan

I have a blender and make smoothies with my protein shake.

Some orange juice, banana, honey, van flav protein and some flax seed oil, very tasty.

You can even blend in porridge with it to add carbs but it can be hard to keep down ; )

jimmay

g'em wrote: »

There are two types of creatine on the market: creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester. The vast majority of the last ten years’ worth of creatine studies have been done with creatine monohydrate and as a newcomer to the supplement scene CEE is yet to be fully tested in action. /QUOTE]

Would this mean CEE would not be generally be reccomended? I have never used any creatine product but someone down the gym was telling me to try a type of creatine other than monohydrate. I was considering trying it, a product I found with it such as BSN's Cell Mass.

jimmay

jimmay wrote: »

g'em wrote: »

There are two types of creatine on the market: creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl ester. The vast majority of the last ten years’ worth of creatine studies have been done with creatine monohydrate and as a newcomer to the supplement scene CEE is yet to be fully tested in action. /QUOTE]

Would this mean CEE would not be generally be reccomended? I have never used any creatine product but someone down the gym was telling me to try a type of creatine other than monohydrate. I was considering trying it, a product I found with it such as BSN's Cell Mass.

You'll be interested to know that CEE is not actually more effective than Monohydrate.

g'em

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll be interested to know that CEE is not actually more effective than Monohydrate.

source?

g'em

g'em wrote: »

source?

http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee.html

"In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine."

I also found a newer one:

"New research shows that creatine ethyl-ester - a new but unproven version of the popular sports supplement creatine – does not work as well as regular creatine."

Source: http://www.cr-technologies.net/cee_pr.html

jimmay

That article was a bit technical for me tbh not sure what to make of it so is there any other alternative to creatine monohydrate? Or is this the best type? Also I don't want to worry about doing the loading phase correctly, is there a creatine product that allows for this?