Afghan hunger strike in St Patricks.

Heinrich

ferdi wrote:

maybe they would be better off elsewhere?

At home in Afghanistan with their womenfolk for example!

They hardly got to Ireland from Afghanistan for nothing. Where did the get the money for the passage from? Ill gotten gains I would suggest.

ferdi

Heinrich wrote:

Where did the get the money for the passage from? Ill gotten gains I would suggest.

one was a politician in the 'Stan so he probably got the money from backhanders.
at least one other was involved in taliban autrocities so the money was probably robbed from his murder/rape victims.

Terry

suicide is illegal. endangering the lives of minors is illegal. trespassing is illegal and they were here, in this country, illegaly. i'm sure there are a couple more minor crimes that some legal eagle could find there.
add to that the fact that they are a bunch of cowards. suicide is one of the most cowardly act a person can commit. threatening suicide en masse? i think a spell in dundrum would be in order there.
they also endangered the lives of other people in the Dublin area by having ambulances on stand-by and by having the gardai there, insted of them being available to catch other criminals.
and they had some cheese snadwiches.

Hobbes

Commander Vimes wrote:

didn't we have this discussion before? that they can't just window shop for a country? that they have to apply for asylum in the first safe country they get to. perhaps its just the first EU country

Correct it is the first EU country only. There is no international law that states they have to declare asylum in the first country (or any country in sequence).

Ferdi wrote:

'm sorry but i get annoyed when i see people defending these lads just for the sake of it.

Whos defending them? I made my point on the issue quite clear earlier on.

However I wish people would stop claiming about some imaginary international Law that means they have no right to claim asylum here.

Also the "rape" story that people are misquoting. Only two of the hunger strikers have links to the Taliban (and only one admitted to raped/killed people) and I see thier deportation as totally fair.

However others there may actually have valid cases.

AngryAnderson wrote:

The UNHCR have said that Ireland has one of the fairest asylum systems in the Western world. Live with it and stop being antagonistic.

Pray tell where you got that information from? The reason I ask is that I went rummaging before and never once saw such an item. I did see references to Ireland negatively treating Asylum and associating it with "Criminals, Disease".

In comparison to the UK we treat Asylum seekers much better though according to the UNHRC. Children are integrated into normal schools while the UK are building what equates to camps.

About the only thing I have contention with in regards to Asylum seekers is the right to vote here. Refugees yes, Asylum seekers no.

Doctor Fell

ferdi wrote:

one was a politician in the 'Stan so he probably got the money from backhanders.
at least one other was involved in taliban autrocities so the money was probably robbed from his murder/rape victims.

This is a clear example of the racism being talked about in Feedback. A prejudiced view based on race. Hmm, in the Taleban eh? Must have murder/rape victims. Absolute total conjecture and hearsay of the worst kind, fuelling hatred towards Afghans. Mods I hope you ban this slandering racist.

And Julep, suicide is no longer a crime in this country.

base2

The others don't have valid cases. THe others are standing side by side as a united front with a scumbag rapist and murderer. The people supporting them are scumbags.

Hobbes

Doctor Fell wrote:

This is a clear example of the racism being talked about in Feedback. A prejudiced view based on race. Hmm, in the Taleban eh? Must have murder/rape victims. Absolute total conjecture and hearsay of the worst kind, fuelling hatred towards Afghans. Mods I hope you ban this slandering racist.

And Julep, suicide is no longer a crime in this country.

Except that the asylum seeker we are talking about actually documented it on thier Asylum entry form. (According to the papers)

snickerpuss

julep wrote:

suicide is illegal.

Nope.

112. The Criminal Law (Suicide) Act 1993 abolished the offence of suicide but it continues to be an offence to be an accomplice to suicide.

AngryAnderson

Doctor Fell wrote:

This is a clear example of the racism being talked about in Feedback. A prejudiced view based on race. Hmm, in the Taleban eh? Must have murder/rape victims. Absolute total conjecture and hearsay of the worst kind, fuelling hatred towards Afghans. Mods I hope you ban this slandering racist.

How do you know these allegations weren't sourced? It's all over the media at the moment - and not just the tabloids. Wow... the 'rrrraaaaaaacist' card comes out again :rolleyes:

Terry

snickerpuss wrote:

Nope.

112. The Criminal Law (Suicide) Act 1993 abolished the offence of suicide but it continues to be an offence to be an accomplice to suicide.

i was not aware of that.
that law does make them guilty of being accomplices. someone had to supply the rope (very bad nooses by the way), the blades and so forth and none of the group did anything to prevent the others from killing themselves.

Doctor Fell

AngryAnderson wrote:

How do you know these allegations weren't sourced? It's all over the media at the moment - and not just the tabloids. Wow... the 'rrrraaaaaaacist' card comes out again :rolleyes:

I don't get this "rrraaaaaaacist card" BS. The fact is some comments here are racist, so what's wrong with calling them what they are???

Hagar

julep wrote:

that law does make them guilty of being accomplices. someone had to supply the rope (very bad nooses by the way), the blades and so forth and none of the group did anything to prevent the others from killing themselves.

I don't believe there is a legal obligation on anyone, possibly Gardaí excluded, to stop someone else from killing themselves. Why would you anyway? They are not breaking the law. I certainly wouldn't go up to a knife wielding nutter and try to stop him killing himself. He only going to hurt me then kill himself. Fupp that, tear away, top yourself if you want. Don't let me stop you.

Terry

Hagar wrote:

I don't believe there is a legal obligation on anyone, possibly Gardaí excluded, to stop someone else from killing themselves. Why would you anyway? They are not breaking the law. I certainly wouldn't go up to a knife wielding nutter and try to stop him killing himself. He only going to hurt me then kill himself. Fupp that, tear away, top yourself if you want. Don't let me stop you.

good point. although i think there should be a law against jonestown type parties.

Ag marbh

AngryAnderson wrote:

How do you know these allegations weren't sourced? It's all over the media at the moment - and not just the tabloids. Wow... the 'rrrraaaaaaacist' card comes out again :rolleyes:

Congragulations to AngryAnderson who for the over usage of :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . It should be BoringAnderson since you always seem u****ressed(Why is "****" blocked?) by others.

ChityWest

Ag marbh wrote:

Congragulations to AngryAnderson who for the over usage of :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . It should be BoringAnderson since you always seem u****ressed(Why is "****" blocked?) by others.

I think this post here does nothing to answer the question.

If somone mentions that one of these afghans was a self admitted rapist/murderer - this does not make the poster of this information a racist. If it does - how exactly is that ? It has been widely reported in the general media - unless they are racist too.

ferdi

Doctor Fell wrote:

This is a clear example of the racism being talked about in Feedback. A prejudiced view based on race. Hmm, in the Taleban eh? Must have murder/rape victims. Absolute total conjecture and hearsay of the worst kind, fuelling hatred towards Afghans. Mods I hope you ban this slandering racist.

How about you pick up a newspaper and stop throwing around foolish allegations of racism. one of the Afghans put down on his asylum application form that he was a member of the Taleban and that in his capacity as a Taleban member had carried out rape and murder. He put this on his application because, due to his involvment in these autrocities, his life was in danger in Afghanistan.

unlike you, i'm not going to call on the mods to ban you for calling me a 'slandering racist'. Cop on.

AngryAnderson

Ag marbh wrote:

Congragulations to AngryAnderson who for the over usage of :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . It should be BoringAnderson since you always seem u****ressed(Why is "****" blocked?) by others.

Very childish indeed. I can understand you're frustrated because I flattened your argument a few pages back but there's no need to throw your toys out of the pram and humiliate yourself in the process.

As for these weightless accusations of racism - STOP. It's quite clear that the majority of people on this thread, apart from the occasional racist moron, is not racist but is more angered that these men tried to take advantage of an aleady hospitable nation by trying to play us for fools and threatened us with violence, albeit against themselves. They tried to beat our system by breaking our laws. And that seems to be the first and only contribution they've made to our state.

It's a no brainer. A 'duh duh'. It seems there are far too many incumbent 'duh's' in this damn country. :rolleyes:

antogrimes

Firstly, before I rant about this situation, picture this,

How well would 30 Irish ppl get on if they holed themselves up in a Mosque in Afghanistan and demanded citizenship by harming themselves,
They would be dragged out and beheaded before they could even say hunger, I could pretty much guarantee that.

I think its bad enough that their in St. Pats, but the fact that one has admitted being a rapist and murderer just makes me more P**sed off,

They really have no right to violate the system for applying for asylum like this,
Its quite simply pure cheek,
They have no support from me and never will,

Ireland is (and has been) a big enough bum-hole for asylum seekers and immigrants to fill,


That is all........ :mad:

ferdi

antogrimes wrote:

Ireland is (and has been) a big enough bum-hole for asylum speakers and immigrants to fill

lol, what an image:D

Ag marbh

AngryAnderson wrote:

Very childish indeed. I can understand you're frustrated because I flattened your argument a few pages back but there's no need to throw your toys out of the pram and humiliate yourself in the process.

You flattened my moral stance on the situation? I don't believe that has been touched.

juslookin

Ag marbh wrote:

You flattened my moral stance on the situation? I don't believe that has been touched.

there is a solution,

ag, could you take a few of the lads in under your own roof and pay personally for their needs, and supervise them

then there would be little argument, as people who feel they are having the piss taken out of them won't have the piss taken out of them, and the people who think that the lads are their personal and financial responsibility can take care of it

Ag marbh

juslookin wrote:

there is a solution,

ag, could you take a few of the lads in under your own roof and pay personally for their needs, and supervise them

then there would be little argument, as people who feel they are having the piss taken out of them won't have the piss taken out of them, and the people who think that the lads are their personal and financial responsibility can take care of it

No problem at all!

base2

So you would wilfully take in a rapist/murderer into your home? Or at least people who freely associate with one?

Doubt you'd do the same if it was an Irish guy

juslookin

Ag marbh wrote:

No problem at all!

in the interests of fairness, you can't choose or ask them about their background, you just have to take what you are given, when i say lads, I mean even the fella with the glasses and cheese sandwich

i look forward to seeing evidence of you putting your money where your mouth is, where can we follow your progress?

antogrimes

base2 wrote:

So you would wilfully take in a rapist/murderer into your home? Or at least people who freely associate with one?

Doubt you'd do the same if it was an Irish guy

EXACTLY,

Its just another case of someone being (or considering themselves to be) too much of a do-gooder,
There is a line to draw yknow??

AngryAnderson

Ag marbh wrote:

You flattened my moral stance on the situation? I don't believe that has been touched.

No, I flattened your silly assertions and mud-slinging. Go back and read the thread. As for your 'moral stance' - well you're perfectly entitled to you opinion on the matter. But I can't see how it means anything if all you're doing is saying that the government should flaunt its laws and give special treatment to these criminals because they're in the media for a few days. As another poster said, would you be willing to put these guys up for a few months/years until their appeals are heard? If so, WHY DON'T YOU? Answer: hot air.

Saintly

AngryAnderson wrote:

While I wouldn't give much credence to the Indo, it doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to fathom that maybe a bunch of men of Afghanistan who seem to have travelled here without their womenfolk or children, hijacked a church and threatened to slit their wrists, hang themselves, throw themselves from balconys, etc. might just have been member of the Taliban. Then again, maybe not. Either way, their criminal actions here completely exhonerate anyone who would assume so.

Wonderful logic. Can you seriously stand over this?! Only two of these people have reported links to the Taliban, one has definitely (matter of public record) lost his father as a result of Taliban violence. On the basis of this information, you apparently (and correct me if I am wrong), feel that people who believe that the rest of the Afghans were also members of the Taliban can be completely exonerated - due the petty criminal actions of the entire group?!! If you're wicked enough to trespass in a church, you've probably got a murderous streak too, is that it?!!

This kind of logic will certainly simplify life. Next time, an Iraqi commits a crime (like, shock, horror ... trespassing), we can just assume he was a member of the National Guard. The next jaywalking Rwandan? Man, he's just got to be one of those crazy Hutu/Tutsi killer types. Make it easy on yourself, don't even worry about his tribal origin, I mean you're entitled to put two and two together and come up with a whole bucket of assumptions!! Don't worry about being ignorant kids, don't dream of educating yourself, come up with any theory you like about these crazy lawbreaking foreigners, it's okay, you'll be completely exonerated, especially if there is evidence to nail just one or two of them!! It's like back in the day where if you knew an IRA member, well then you just had to be one.

Honestly, people are just hysterical about this entire thing. A group of people make an ill advised protest in a church, it's hardly the first time that's happened. Suddenly, it's Assumption city. 'They abandoned their poor wives and eighteen children!' 'They were in the Taliban, hell they probably ran it!' 'They toured Europe in first class conditions!' 'Funded by their ill gotten gains!!' I keep swaying between annoyed and bemused, can people just get some perspective on this?! Just quit making stuff up, there are plenty of valid points to discuss about the Afghan situation without having to stray into fantasyland.

Regarding the travel/finance issue; you do realise that in order to leave a home country, many asylum seekers/illegal immigrants abandon their homes, sell cars, use savings etc, to move out of their country. Look at the Central Americans and Cubans, who spend ridiculous amounts to cross one border or more (in terrifying conditions) to the US and Canada. Believe it or not, you do not need to be poor (nor is it a prerequisite) to seek asylum in another country so I simply cannot follow the logic of this argument. In fact, it's generally people with some or a lot of cash who get out, with the exception of mass movement etc. Some people may indeed fail in their applications and for good reason but why the generalisations? How do you know what the individual reasons for application are? Why are your suspicions valid? I actually agreed with various points you made throughout the thread but I could not disagree more with you on this one.

JULEP wrote:

suicide is illegal. endangering the lives of minors is illegal. trespassing is illegal and they were here, in this country, illegaly. i'm sure there are a couple more minor crimes that some legal eagle could find there.
add to that the fact that they are a bunch of cowards. suicide is one of the most cowardly act a person can commit. threatening suicide en masse? i think a spell in dundrum would be in order there.
they also endangered the lives of other people in the Dublin area by having ambulances on stand-by and by having the gardai there, insted of them being available to catch other criminals.
and they had some cheese snadwiches.

Ah, back to annoyance. Threats of suicide or self harm ARE NOT illegal. Suicide was decriminalised in 1993. Thirteen years ago and for very good reasons. The reference to accomplice is not the witnessing of the act but direct assistance in the act. The fact is nobody helped anyone die in this situation, so nobody was an accomplice to anything!! The fact that you don't know this and that you still think that suicide is a cowardly act, despite all of the research and expertise available to inform you otherwise, fits in with the rest of your misinformed post.

The minors were in the care of the HSE (voluntary) the entire time. The HSE was completely responsible for the young people at all times and approached the courts when they wished to take specific responsibility (custody, medical decisions etc). So no crime there, either.

Ambulances and gardai were used as per their remit. Ambulances responded to calls around Dublin as usual, they were certainly not on standby, no risk to life anywhere.

More misinformation on a thread already swimming in inaccuracies.

Yes, definitely back to annoyed!!

Saintly.

Terry

i'm sorry that i annoyed you so much that you felt the need to leave your finger on the shift key as you typed my username, but as you may or may not have noticed, the suicide thing was pointed out by two others and i acknowledged my ignorance of that fact.
yes, the HSE were responsible for the safety of the minors after recieving a court order, but the minors remained in the cathedral.

no risk to life anywhere? well, except maybe in the cathedral.

the gardai cordoned off the area around the cathedral. i believe their presence would have been required in order for that to happen.

the fact of the matter is that these people were an annoyance and wasted resources that could have been put to better use, all because of their own selfishness.
as per EU law, they should not have been in this country, but they were and should have respected the laws of this land, whether or not their lives were in danger. they did themselves absolutely no favours with this debacle. going through the proper channels would have given them a better chance of asylum and a new beginning here, but they seemed to think that they could emotioally blackmail the government into granting them that asylum. they deserve no respect for their blatant disregard of both the laws of this country and the sanctity of a place of worship.
thankfully we had a positive outcome and others will not be tempted to try a similar approach in the future.
asylum seekers, just follow the proper procedures and you will probably be allowed to stay. enjoy this land and may you have a prosperous and happy life here. chancers, go fuck your selves.

the_syco

They blow themselves up, it doesn't make the news anymore. They threaten to commit suicide, it headlines.


The one thing that still puzzles me is this: 30 people don't just "come together" to die, unless there is some planning involved. Who planned it, and what was their agenda?

WhiteWashMan

maybe it was a cult.
were they wearing nike runners?