Prostitution

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

what points? I got bored with this arguement long ago turgon was the one who decided 4 weeks later to rehash the crap in it so really aside from prostitution should be legal. If your talking to your 90 year old granny who is just about to croke it how can you convince her without boreing her to death!

Then bugger off, and leave the topic to people who wish to talk about it. You're as bad as a troll if you just throw out articles and other opinions, and are unwilling to discuss them properly.. Waste of time and space. :mad:

Joey the lips

Deleted User wrote: »

Then bugger off, and leave the topic to people who wish to talk about it. You're as bad as a troll if you just throw out articles and other opinions, and are unwilling to discuss them properly.. Waste of time and space. :mad:

Now your just being daft. That was plain to see when it happened and I did mention it! I find it strange when you dont hear your prefered answer you get annoyed. What chance is there of talking to you about anything

There is a difference with us! unfortunitly you still have not managed to convince me that prostitution should be legal.Where as I dont need to worry about convincing you it should be legalised. Although as I pointed out before to others we can always have the first test case in the city of cork. I imagine it will help inflate the house prices with all the extra rent. I would not try see a doctor for a while though as all the associated services will be prity booked up. although there would be a lot more bars and clubs for social drinking then no doubt you will get more gards to look after the town.

See you assume I dont think of prostitution I think of it 2 ways! I think of the ability of society to cope and the services needed and I think of the needs of the people involved. I am not to worried about the sex cause I will never need there services and like I said unlike the coffee example I never go for a busmans hoilday.

If you want to understand the topic complete you seem to have failed to reaslise that the Original poster was actually been critical of the trade and not accepting it! so I wonder who really should bugger off.

Like I said before if you cannot convince me best of luck convincing the legislators!

turgon

Ok so lets make this easy Joey. Yes or No:

If prostitution is made legal, will illegal prostitution go down?

Just a simple Yes or No.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now your just being daft. That was plain to see when it happened and I did mention it! I find it strange when you dont hear your prefered answer you get annoyed. What chance is there of talking to you about anything

I'll try this once more. I'm getting annoyed because you're not defending your stance. You're just throwing out an opinion, with a few articles as facts, and then saying the topic isn't worth talking about. You're giving your stance, and then removing any chance of us defying your position. Surely you can understand how annoying that is?

There is a difference with us! unfortunitly you still have not managed to convince me that prostitution should be legal.

Actually if you had read my posts to you, I haven't been trying to convince you that it should be legal. I'm trying to convince you that it should have been considered rather than ignoring it just because other countries failed.

Its a bit like the no smoking ban. Originally few people wanted it, then more, and then a large population voted it in. Other countries thought us daft and yet its worked out pretty ok, despite the odd bit of grumbling. The possibility exists that the legalisation of prostitution could go the same route, but you don't seem willing even to consider it.

Where as I dont need to worry about convincing you it should be legalised. Although as I pointed out before to others we can always have the first test case in the city of cork. I imagine it will help inflate the house prices with all the extra rent. I would not try see a doctor for a while though as all the associated services will be prity booked up. although there would be a lot more bars and clubs for social drinking then no doubt you will get more gards to look after the town.

Explain in depth how the legalisation of prostitution would increase the demand of all the services you listed above... Before I put a pin in your balloon..

See you assume I dont think of prostitution I think of it 2 ways! I think of the ability of society to cope and the services needed and I think of the needs of the people involved. I am not to worried about the sex cause I will never need there services and like I said unlike the coffee example I never go for a busmans hoilday.

I've assumed very little about you. TBH I haven't because I can't quite figure out why you refuse to answer the posts I make, but start up new ones
instead telling me how I don't understand.

You do realise that you have failed once again to answer the questions I put to you?

If you want to understand the topic complete you seem to have failed to reaslise that the Original poster was actually been critical of the trade and not accepting it! so I wonder who really should bugger off.

And because the OP was being critical of the trade... I should follow suit? Hardly. The OP asked a question at the end of his post. "Should i come down off my high Horse.", and the answer for many of us was "Yes".

Strange that you would get confused over that.

Like I said before if you cannot convince me best of luck convincing the legislators!

oddly enough I don't want prostitution to be legal now in its current state. Ireland has too many issues in its society to handle the influx of associated social problems that comes with legalisation. Ireland could have handled it while the economy was still going strong, but i don't think it would work as well in the current environment. This thread has been going since before the bubble burst. :rolleyes:

No, the true issue here, is that I just don't agree with your reasoning's and the way you post these opinions. I query them because they're not particularly well thought out in a practical sense.

Now. Will you go back and respond to my posts or will you tell me I don't understand and post up something else instead?

JP Liz

Michelle Pfeiffer and Kathy Bates are calling for prostitution to be legalised in the U.S. after playing historical hookers in a new period movie.
The duo portrays 1920s French courtesans in director Stephen Frears new film Cheri, and the risque subject matter has prompted them both to question why the 'world's oldest profession' has been banned throughout most of their native America.
Pfeiffer says, "There is an argument to be made for providing some protection for prostitutes. It would solve a lot of problems for them. They're going to do it anyway."
Her co-star Bates agrees: "For health reasons, it would be better for people to enjoy those pleasures."

Joey the lips

turgon wrote: »

Ok so lets make this easy Joey. Yes or No:

If prostitution is made legal, will illegal prostitution go down?

Just a simple Yes or No.

I reckon so yes in the short term but I also reckon the demand for it will go up there for canceling out any possible gains and leading to a growth in the Illegal trade.


http://www.slate.com/id/2186243/

This is actually an interesting articale that backs up your claims!

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll try this once more. I'm getting annoyed because you're not defending your stance. You're just throwing out an opinion, with a few articles as facts, and then saying the topic isn't worth talking about. You're giving your stance, and then removing any chance of us defying your position. Surely you can understand how annoying that is?



Actually if you had read my posts to you, I haven't been trying to convince you that it should be legal. I'm trying to convince you that it should have been considered rather than ignoring it just because other countries failed.

Its a bit like the no smoking ban. Originally few people wanted it, then more, and then a large population voted it in. Other countries thought us daft and yet its worked out pretty ok, despite the odd bit of grumbling. The possibility exists that the legalisation of prostitution could go the same route, but you don't seem willing even to consider it.



Explain in depth how the legalisation of prostitution would increase the demand of all the services you listed above... Before I put a pin in your balloon..



I've assumed very little about you. TBH I haven't because I can't quite figure out why you refuse to answer the posts I make, but start up new ones
instead telling me how I don't understand.

You do realise that you have failed once again to answer the questions I put to you?



And because the OP was being critical of the trade... I should follow suit? Hardly. The OP asked a question at the end of his post. "Should i come down off my high Horse.", and the answer for many of us was "Yes".

Strange that you would get confused over that.



oddly enough I don't want prostitution to be legal now in its current state. Ireland has too many issues in its society to handle the influx of associated social problems that comes with legalisation. Ireland could have handled it while the economy was still going strong, but i don't think it would work as well in the current environment. This thread has been going since before the bubble burst. :rolleyes:

No, the true issue here, is that I just don't agree with your reasoning's and the way you post these opinions. I query them because they're not particularly well thought out in a practical sense.

Now. Will you go back and respond to my posts or will you tell me I don't understand and post up something else instead?

You get very confusing cause you get to emotional. but to explain the principle that is widely reconised as to why the growth in the illegal trade will increase is simple and I explained it before!

Imagine you and john meet in dublin once a month in Easons for coffee. You live in cork john lives in dublin! now you and john both love coffee and dublin is the only place it can be gotten so because you only get coffee once a month you tend to buy the best cause you want to really enjoy it.

Now john realises that if he travels to martys in the back street and buys his coffee there he can get 2 cups for the price of the cup he buys in easons. It does not matter to john that martys pays his employees min wage cause he really loves coffee.

Are you understanding that logic!

Now replace coffee with sex. Easons is the upmarket industry that most lads from Ireland will use in holland. Martys is the back street industry that flurishes along side the up market one in holland that all the locals use.

The problem is that martys is the illegal trade that is very hard to regulate cause its done down dark alley ways etc

This is ususlly the side that leads to the EXPLOITATION of women


Now before you tell me this therory is Sh1te attach a link to the economics formum and any economist will varify this theory as fact.


So you see I cannot see a reason for allowing prostitution into this country legally additionally my unethical side does not want to see more foreign women in ireland which tend to be the women that dominate the trade.

So you both see that while my arguement might be a little racist it is clearly factual, provable and more importantly it is rational! and as i said I gave up on this discussion long ago because the sh1t that womens welfare is protected only applies to the easons ladys it does not apply to martys ladys and as Dutch and new zealand police will tell you. it is very very hard to enfore this protection. So why allow it!

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

You get very confusing cause you get to emotional. but to explain the principle that is widely reconised as to why the growth in the illegal trade will increase is simple and I explained it before!

Emotional? Because I object to your avoidance to reply to my points? This is the third response you have made and each time you move ever onwards. Its ridiculous. Even when I highlight in Bold the areas of your posts, with direct requests for an explanation, you ignore it. You're impossible to have a discussion with, because you're incapable to responding directly to any denial of your stance.

I'm fairly sure Turgon, and other posters can see my point.

Which is why I can't be bothered with you anymore.

turgon

Joey the lips wrote: »

I reckon so yes in the short term but I also reckon the demand for it will go up there for canceling out any possible gains and leading to a growth in the Illegal trade.

Ok. Theres no point talking you then.

philologos

How can growth in an illegal trade go up, when a trade that was formerly illegal is now deemed legal? I'm just a touch confused myself Joey the lips.

I do agree that the Swedish model of minimising prostitution is more effective than the Dutch model of legalisation however. The facts have shown that the Dutch situation in terms of sex trafficking is far worse than in Sweden.

Joey the lips

Deleted User wrote: »

Emotional? Because I object to your avoidance to reply to my points? This is the third response you have made and each time you move ever onwards. Its ridiculous. Even when I highlight in Bold the areas of your posts, with direct requests for an explanation, you ignore it. You're impossible to have a discussion with, because you're incapable to responding directly to any denial of your stance.

I'm fairly sure Turgon, and other posters can see my point.

Which is why I can't be bothered with you anymore.

Thank you

turgon wrote: »

Ok. Theres no point talking you then.

Not the first time you said that but thanks again

Jakkass wrote: »

How can growth in an illegal trade go up, when a trade that was formerly illegal is now deemed legal? I'm just a touch confused myself Joey the lips.

I do agree that the Swedish model of minimising prostitution is more effective than the Dutch model of legalisation however. The facts have shown that the Dutch situation in terms of sex trafficking is far worse than in Sweden.

Do you want me to actually explain why it happens or refer you to the facts that are there if you investigate the subject. Read the coffee shop example above and it explains the principle.

If you need it explained in another way compare it to cigerrates there will always be an illegal trade cause there is so much money to be made. The same applies to prostitution. However as prostitution is not legal in ireland the illegal trade has to work harder to conceal itself however if it were legal it would be easier for the exploited illegal trade to operate alongside.

again all the examples are there if you are really interested in the subject.

The Beautiful thing about boads is even if you prove your point which I did on the last prostitution thread people on boards still dont believe it so what I find the best thing to do is state your point and leave it to those to prove you wrong. Which by the way nobody has actually proved that legalising prostitution will not increase the illegal trade.

philologos

Joey the lips: Yes, I can agree with you, an illegal trade will still probably exist, although this illegal trade would be much much smaller than the legal trade. It's not legal vs illegal that I'm concerned with though, rather it is whether prostitution itself is harmful or not. I personally think it is. It's also a question of whether criminalisation as in the Swedish model is more effective at minimising the trade than the Dutch model. The answer is obviously yes given a look at the statistics.

Joey the lips

Jakkass wrote: »

Joey the lips: Yes, I can agree with you, an illegal trade will still probably exist, although this illegal trade would be much much smaller than the legal trade. It's not legal vs illegal that I'm concerned with though, rather it is whether prostitution itself is harmful or not. I personally think it is. It's also a question of whether criminalisation as in the Swedish model is more effective at minimising the trade than the Dutch model. The answer is obviously yes given a look at the statistics.

I was never argueing or denying any of your points. My arguement has always been and will always be that prostitution should not be allowed because it leads to a growth in the illegal trade. Yes it may not be as big as the legal but it will be a lot bigger than it is now.

I have been called a hypocrit which is fine but if I found the need to use a prostitute (IF BEING THE WORD) i would be happy to hop on a plane and fly to holland and get a high class hooker that will never know me. Unless of course I am unfortunate to meet michelle next door!

It a fact not my fact but a published fact that the illegal trade is taken up by foreign women who are widely exploited and yes while my underlying concern is for there general welfare my racist biased which I am guilty of simple says I dont want more illegals in the country.

I am sure I am a recist hypocritical a.ss but at the end of the day I am correct in my assumptions!

I am not in denial like the 2 above that women are better off. In fact I think this borders on the same delusions as the emporors new clothes did.

But then again we will open a test case next door to them in cork and will will see how it changes things.

turgon

"prostitution should not be allowed because it leads to a growth in the illegal trade"

But thats just nonsensical. I doubt you will get many people agreeing with you on that.

Joey the lips

turgon wrote: »

"prostitution should not be allowed because it leads to a growth in the illegal trade"

But thats just nonsensical. I doubt you will get many people agreeing with you on that.

Corrction. You will not get many people on boards agreeing with that but like i always say if boards were life we would be looking at legalising drugs, prostitution and we would all be athiest there would be no marriage but as life shows us this is not the case and considering you just said that there was no point talking to me there is a fair few hypocrits on boards as well.

oh and by the way "prostitution should not be allowed because it leads to a growth in the illegal trade" this statement as the coffee shop example shows can be proved and as in the case of ciggerattes is reality and only proves that you really do not practice what you preach which as i said is hypocritical so you why should your opinion matter?

philologos

Joey the lips wrote: »

I was never argueing or denying any of your points. My arguement has always been and will always be that prostitution should not be allowed because it leads to a growth in the illegal trade. Yes it may not be as big as the legal but it will be a lot bigger than it is now.

Sure, but I want to get your reasoning correct. Do you have any statistics to back up the view that once prostitution is legalised, illegal trade grows? I would agree with you if you held the view that if prostitution is legalised the trade in general grows. There is nothing to suggest that the underground trade would increase radically however unless you can provide some back up for this point.

My concern is that if the trade in general grows, more people are at risk. I personally don't care whether that is legal or illegal. Whereas minimising the trade would mean that less people are going to be at risk.

Joey the lips

Jakkass wrote: »

Sure, but I want to get your reasoning correct. Do you have any statistics to back up the view that once prostitution is legalised, illegal trade grows? I would agree with you if you held the view that if prostitution is legalised the trade in general grows. There is nothing to suggest that the underground trade would increase radically however unless you can provide some back up for this point.

My concern is that if the trade in general grows, more people are at risk. I personally don't care whether that is legal or illegal. Whereas minimising the trade would mean that less people are going to be at risk.

No stats no but equally there is no stats to suggest the arguement in favor of the opposite. But as someone with a backround in economics I can only apply the logic that an economist would use.

But there is plenty of arguements to suggest it

But there is a lot of common sense which can be employed here, For example

1. It is reasonable to assume that many of the illegal immigrents coming into this country will enter the sex trade r

2. It is reasonable to assume if the sex trade is legalised a lot of the restrictions that currently exist will be lifted

3. The the trade in ciggerattes it is reasonable to assume that where such a highly lucrative trade exists it is easy to operate an illegal trade alongside

Lastly I can give you tons of articles that show that the illegal trade will increase but here is the beauty I dont need to! Those that advocate and support it need to prove it wont and this is impossible to improve

So as I said all along if they cannot convince me and all they want me to do is prove my prejudice then they are never going to convince the general public.


http://sisyphe.org/spip.php?article1626

Now attached is a full debate the canadians held on the subject having read it I cannot see any more why prostitution should be legalised


Now I put it back to those who said it should be legalised and believe it wont lead to a growth in the trade

Prove it! and dont tell me it helps the welfare of women

philologos

Joey the lips wrote: »

No stats no but equally there is no stats to suggest the arguement in favor of the opposite. But as someone with a backround in economics I can only apply the logic that an economist would use.

That's a given. However, as someone who is trying to establish, what exactly the truth is on this. A defence of a hypothesis cannot really be "Sure the other side cannot prove what they say, so why is that any different".

If I am an agnostic on the issue of the alleged correlation between legalisation and the increase in legal trade. Which I most certainly am, I will need to be convinced.

I'm opposed to the legalisation of prostitution, I just don't think you are arguing it in the best fashion.

Joey the lips wrote: »

1. It is reasonable to assume that many of the illegal immigrents coming into this country will enter the sex trade

Yes, I agree here, but this doesn't mean the "illegal" trade will increase with legalisation. In the Netherlands there is a lot more sex trafficking than in Sweden. However the trade of prostitution itself is legal, it is just the sex trafficking that is illegal.

Joey the lips wrote: »

2. It is reasonable to assume if the sex trade is legalised a lot of the restrictions that currently exist will be lifted

Of course, that's what legalisation means. Prostitution will become a legal trade, not an illegal one. Sure, the trade in general will increase, but since it is not considered illegal in itself, illegal trade will be tiny.

Joey the lips wrote: »

3. The the trade in ciggerattes it is reasonable to assume that where such a highly lucrative trade exists it is easy to operate an illegal trade alongside

The nature of women in prostitution isn't the same as boxes of ciggarettes being shifted around. It's lucrative yes, but why would you engage in an unsafe trade when you can have a cushy arrangement with the State. In the Netherlands gangs are still involved in prostitution, they just happen to do it legally now.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Lastly I can give you tons of articles that show that the illegal trade will increase but here is the beauty I dont need to! Those that advocate and support it need to prove it wont and this is impossible to improve

I don't advocate it. However, I would like to be convinced as someone who would be against prostitution to see how this argument would be favourable for my case. I don't see that it is currently, so I will argue based on the harm principle.

Joey the lips wrote: »

So as I said all along if they cannot convince me and all they want me to do is prove my prejudice then they are never going to convince the general public.

Yes that's fine, but both sides have to be convincing in a reasoned debate. If you feel that your position is worth defending, then defend it

Joey the lips wrote: »

http://sisyphe.org/spip.php?article1626

Now attached is a full debate the canadians held on the subject having read it I cannot see any more why prostitution should be legalised

Thanks a lot, I will read this

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now I put it back to those who said it should be legalised and believe it wont lead to a growth in the trade

Prove it! and dont tell me it helps the welfare of women

Joey, I'd like clarification of your position too though. Please don't pull out of the argument. A debate means an equal two sided debate. It doesn't mean to cop out in the middle of it.

Joey the lips

Jakkass wrote: »

Joey, I'd like clarification of your position too though. Please don't pull out of the argument. A debate means an equal two sided debate. It doesn't mean to cop out in the middle of it.

Clarification? I dont understand! I object to prostitution being legalised because I object to

1. The exploitation of women and by that I dont mean those who are high class hookers

2. Because it will in all probability consist of mainly immigrants which granted might be a prejudice but these prejudices exist when we are coming to introduce legislation

I have no intention of coping out as such but as I pointed to turgon before prove to me that drugs should be legalised.

I actually do agree that there is a serious debate needed based on his factual information for the legalisation of cannibas at least

But that said nobody can prove at the moment that legalising prostitution will not lead to the exploitation of women and the rise in the illegal trade but this is in fact what has happened in holland. So until this can be proven not to happen I have no intention of changing my opinion that it should remain illegal.

That is my view

Jakkass

Jakkass wrote: »

Yes that's fine, but both sides have to be convincing in a reasoned debate. If you feel that your position is worth defending, then defend it

Joey, I'd like clarification of your position too though. Please don't pull out of the argument. A debate means an equal two sided debate. It doesn't mean to cop out in the middle of it.

+1

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

But that said nobody can prove at the moment that legalising prostitution will not lead to the exploitation of women and the rise in the illegal trade but this is in fact what has happened in holland. So until this can be proven not to happen I have no intention of changing my opinion that it should remain illegal.

I couldn't resist.

You can't prove at the moment that in Ireland legalising prostitution will lead to the exploitation of women and the rise in the illegal trade. You can refer to examples like Holland, NZ, Australia, Germany, etc. but they're all very different countries, with different situations regarding both crime, and trafficking.

You're looking for unequivocal proof where there is none to be had. On the flip side, the stance you hold can't prove it either.

So you're not going to change your mind because until it happens (if it ever does) you won't have the proof/facts you need to make your decision.

Joey the lips

Deleted User wrote: »

I couldn't resist.

You can't prove at the moment that in Ireland legalising prostitution will lead to the exploitation of women and the rise in the illegal trade. You can refer to examples like Holland, NZ, Australia, Germany, etc. but they're all very different countries, with different situations regarding both crime, and trafficking.

You're looking for unequivocal proof where there is none to be had. On the flip side, the stance you hold can't prove it either.

So you're not going to change your mind because until it happens (if it ever does) you won't have the proof/facts you need to make your decision.

For someone who cant be bothered with me you are letting your emotions get the better of you

Your point is more nonsense You cannot prove that it wont! I am fairly sure as I said before that there is no oxygen on the moon. How can I prove it without going there! Your arguement that all these countries are not ireland is denial.

If you want to introduce new legislations you need to have a reference. There is no supporting facts that this will not lead to the exploitation of women

Why would I want to change my mind! No one can mannage to convince me! and as you prove anything said on boards cannot be taken seriously

You keep on asking me questions answer this!

Do you believe that legalising prostitution will lead to the exploitation of women

Can you prove your answer!


If we were talking about a car instead of women and I said, do you belive this car is of good quality and can you prove it! If your answer was not, i would not buy it!

With the greatest respect I made my position clear you are just not reading it! There is no obligation on me to accept that prostitution should be legal cause the law is in favour of me at the moment!

There is an obligation on you to prove why it should and that I leave to you!

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

Your point is more nonsense You cannot prove that it wont! I am fairly sure as I said before that there is no oxygen on the moon. How can I prove it without going there! Your arguement that all these countries are not ireland is denial.

Actually I said that I can't prove that it won't. Just as I said that you can't prove that it will. You do love to pull extreme examples. That example is is just plain retarded.

As for Ireland not being these countries being denial... Explain. Seriously. If you're going to answer one thing I ask you, explain how all the conditions in crime, emigration, culture, etc which make each country different have no bearing on the subject especially when they're being used as examples to support your opinions..

If you want to introduce new legislations you need to have a reference. There is no supporting facts that this will not lead to the exploitation of women

And there are no facts based from Ireland that prostitution will increase sexual exploitation of women. Otherwise you would have posted them by now to prove yourself.

Why would I want to change my mind! No one can mannage to convince me! and as you prove anything said on boards cannot be taken seriously

I've argued against your half-cooked notions. I haven't tried to convince you to think otherwise. If anything I've asked you questions to expand your argument. As for taking me seriously, that's your choice. Most posters choose otherwise.

You keep on asking me questions answer this!

Which you fail to address.

Do you believe that legalising prostitution will lead to the exploitation of women

Can you prove your answer!

As I have said, No I can't. But then I have already said, neither can you prove otherwise. Did you even bother to read my replies? :rolleyes:

If we were talking about a car instead of women and I said, do you belive this car is of good quality and can you prove it! If your answer was not, i would not buy it!

If we were talking cars, you could look at the car and determine its saleability yourself. This is rather different. Why do you continue to use examples that have no relation to the subject?

With the greatest respect I made my position clear you are just not reading it! There is no obligation on me to accept that prostitution should be legal cause the law is in favour of me at the moment!

Haha.. Its you that has not been reading my posts. I've said on multiple occasions, that I'm not trying to convince you. I've also said that I don't believe it wise to legalise prostitution in the current economic climate. How much more clearer do I need to write it?

There is an obligation on you to prove why it should and that I leave to you!

:rolleyes:

midlandsmissus

I have one thing to say about this.It's long but it's relevant.



Myself and a friend went to Prague two yrs ago (we're both female), and I had one of the most terrifying experiences of my life.

We were in a pub in the centre of Prague and we got talking to this Irish guy and his czech girlfriend, They told us they knew this great little pub, so we followed them (like ejits looking back now)down all these back roads until we were in the middle of nowhere and came to the shadiest underground creepiest bar I've ever been in. Everyone looked,how can I put it - just strange, and they all turned to look at us as we came in.

We both felt uncomfortable straight away but as we were miles away from our hotel and no idea how to get there, and mobiles not workin in Prague, we were trying to decide what to do. Anyway the Irish guy gets us drinks and like big feckin ejits we drank them(we were young and stupid and trusted him cause he was Irish,he was livin and workin there a long time though).

So anyway I'm a slow drinker and I had only sipped mine while my friend drank all of hers.

Next thing my friend goes 'I need some fresh air', so I brought her outside for some fresh air, and the irish guy and his gf followed us out. There was another four czech guys outside talking to a vey drunk american girl on her own.

Then my friend goes 'Oh my god I feel really weird' and the Irish guy and the gf swivelled to look at her and the totally unrelated four guys standing next to us all turned to look at her,and this was the scary thing they looked at her like they had been expecting it,and then nodded to each other.

I was like 'what the fu*k is going on' when she collapsed on the floor and started going 'I cant feel my legs I cant feel my legs'. I rushed over to help her while they all stood looking at her just kind of appraisingly.I was bent over her when I heard one of the other guys going to the Irish guy 'I don't like doing this man' and the Irish guy said' I know, none of us like doing it but we have to do it,he's expecting a delivery'. That's word for word what he said.
I was freaking out,thinking what the f*ck will I do?I was totally on my own,my friend was drugged,I was in the middle of nowhere,.They kept at me to bring her back in where there was a private room where they said she would be more comfortable,Isaid no I'd bring her round the corner of the pub and sit her on the cold ground n she'll be better,thinking I might be able to make a run for it when I was out of sight. They were like stay where we can see ya.I managed to find a hiding place and was hiding there with my comatose friend for ages while they went mental looking for us all around me. Jaysus it was terrifying.

After being there for ages and it was quiet I decided to leg it,any way out from where we were, you had to go through all these alleys,and as I was propping up my friend I was going very slowly,scared sh*tless the whole way. We were in an alley when I heard really fast footsteps behind me,my heart jumped in my mouth.It was the czech girlfriend telling me 'the best thing for her is to bring her back so she can lie down',and pulling at her,and saying 'bring her back'. I kept saying to her my boyfriend and his friends were on the way to meet me and eventually she went.By the time I got back to the hotel I was a nervous wreck.I stayed up watching my friend the whole night I couldn't sleep anyway.

Anyway it was the most terrifying night of my life and I'll never forget it.We should have gone to the police, but we were only 19 and terrified and wanted to get home and get the hell out of there.But how easy we could have disappeared off the face of the planet,only for that I'm a slow drinker or we would have both been drugged.I'm sure it was a human trafficking ring. I told my mother what happened when I got home and she cried and said 'we would never have been able to find you'.

Having seen that s/it firsthand myself I know it exists and wonder do men ever think when they go to a brothel abroad that these women could be trafficked.By the time they're in a brothel theyre probably so drugged they don't know who they are anymore.Anyway I had a very lucky escape that night.

turgon

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Having seen that s/it firsthand myself I know it exists and wonder do men ever think when they go to a brothel abroad that these women could be trafficked

That sounds awful. Like the film Taken.

My friend is in Prague at the moment. He has said previously that he would have no problem using a prostitute. Before he went I made it very clear that anyone using illegal prostitution services is encouraging trafficing, and thus is a big part of the crime. In the same vein as those using cocaine contribute to terrorism in the countries where it produced.

I will be passing through Prague sometime early September and although Im male I will be keeping an eye out after hearing that story. Some people are so sick.

midlandsmissus

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I have one thing to say about this.It's long but it's relevant.

Extremely Relevant. You're a very brave woman.

Having seen that s/it firsthand myself I know it exists and wonder do men ever think when they go to a brothel abroad that these women could be trafficked.By the time they're in a brothel theyre probably so drugged they don't know who they are anymore.Anyway I had a very lucky escape that night.

Well, for my own part I have been to a few brothels over the years. Mostly in Asia, but I've visited two in Germany, and two in Moscow. I'm not a big fan of the brothel setup because of the very thing you suggest. I haven't met anyone drugged up, and I know from personal experience the symptoms of drug usage. I've never been a fan of being with someone who's out of their mind, either voluntarily or forced.

While trafficking does occur, it would be a mistake to label all women in a brothel as being in the same category. Some are there due to hard times, and others from choice. However from discussions I've had with friends both male & female who have spent more time in Brothels (working or visiting) in eastern Europe, the chances of meeting someone who is there against their will increases massively. They have a tradition of preying on women to ensure "exotic" services. Horrible. Truly horrible.

NickNolte

turgon wrote: »

Before he went I made it very clear that anyone using illegal prostitution services is encouraging trafficing

You could also say that people who are against the legalisation of prostitution are also encouraging trafficking. Not that I'm for or against, I haven't really given it much thought, but legalisation and regulation would surely give patrons ("Johns") the option to use legitimate services?

turgon

NickNolte wrote: »

You could also say that people who are against the legalisation of prostitution are also encouraging trafficking. Not that I'm for or against, I haven't really given it much thought, but legalisation and regulation would surely give patrons ("Johns") the option to use legitimate services?

Yes.*Presumably brothels would be inspected by the HSE, who would also ensure the welfare of prostitutes.

Suppose that prostitutes had to be screened once a month by the HSE, possibly for STD's as well. The HSE could ensure they are there of their own will. If they have any doubts as to addictions etc they could detain them.

Because one of the methods of traffickers is to keep prostitutes drugged up, I believe?

Joey the lips

NickNolte wrote: »

You could also say that people who are against the legalisation of prostitution are also encouraging trafficking. Not that I'm for or against, I haven't really given it much thought, but legalisation and regulation would surely give patrons ("Johns") the option to use legitimate services?

Typical daft senseless quote. I am against something so I encourage it I suppose I am against sex with minors and pedophelia so I encourage that as well. Lets look at drugs I am against heroin and coke I encourage that as well. Its not the fault of the people that use the illegal trafficked people nahh its the fault of those against it! Well said always blame some one else!

turgon wrote: »

Yes.*Presumably brothels would be inspected by the HSE, who would also ensure the welfare of prostitutes.

Suppose that prostitutes had to be screened once a month by the HSE, possibly for STD's as well. The HSE could ensure they are there of their own will. If they have any doubts as to addictions etc they could detain them.

Because one of the methods of traffickers is to keep prostitutes drugged up, I believe?

I would have bet you would have said yes to that but I am surprised you proved me right!

turgon

Joey the lips wrote: »

I am against something so I encourage it I suppose I am against sex with minors and pedophelia so I encourage that as well.

What joey the lips cant understand is that people would want to sacrifice some of their conservative values to actually help people. It would seem the joey believes in holding tight to your beliefs not matter what sort of damage they cause.

Joey the lips

turgon wrote: »

What joey the lips cant understand is that people would want to sacrifice some of their conservative values to actually help people. It would seem the joey believes in holding tight to your beliefs not matter what sort of damage they cause.

I am sorry but it seems there is a lot I cant understand as I do not have the slightest clue what you mean. Perhaps you would like to explain this again not using the same language and maybe you will educate me. Thanks