Is anyone else fed up of Dublin?

29-03-2006 12:50AM

MorningStar wrote:

Sorry where are you talking about? PAris has incredibbly rude staff everywhere completly notorious for it. London maybe? Wait no they are so rude on the streets and in most places of service. THe OP mentioned cost of living as the big issue.

Strange, because as a tourist I've only received top-notch responses from staff in Paris. I've been there 6 times in the last 10 years, and I've carried away fond memories, where staff are professional, courteous, and helpful. Admittedly I've met people in bars and such that are quite snobby and rude, the actual staff in hotels, shops, restaraunts etc were all quite good. Way above the standard I've found in our own capital.

London? Again, I've received quite good service. Its only in the outskirts of London that I've received below par performance, and lack of coiurtesy, but admittedly they were lower "class" areas. My Brother lived outside of London for 4 years, and I visited London as a "tourist' quite a bit when visiting him.

But perhaps you'd like another example. Moscow. Another Capital. Not even in Europe. Few people speak english, and they're getting quite consumed by the capitalistic ethos. Some quite resentful of western influence over their country amd some that were very traditional in the "old" ways. And yet I came away from Moscow with some of the best experiences I have had anywhere. Professional service in the upper areas, and while not professional in the lower areas, everyone was friendly and helpful. A rough city, but one with alot of very nice people.

I find many people who "live" in Dublin for a while and then claim to know the place never really live here. They stay here, go home at the weekends and stay with their own friends or other people not from Dublin. THey make pockets of their comfort zones.

I lived in two places in Dublin. Donnybrook at the start with some family relations, and after two months I moved to a crummy flat in Camden street. I quite enjoyed the nightlife in Dublin. One of the nicest things I can say about Dublin, is that it has the best choice for entertainment in the country. So many bars, and nightclubs. Believe me I wasn't sitting in at night staring vacantly at the TV screen. And considering I usually see my family only twice a year (less if I can avoid it), I stayed in Dublin pretty much the whole time. Fourteen months living there. When you go to Dublin not knowing anyone, you grow tired of your quiet comfort zone after the first month.

Nothing like the fear of being jobless to make sure these people treat you better. I mean customers are always so polite:(

Thats part of it. I work in the services industry. If I acted the way I receive often in shops I would be fired. My job is to make our customers happy and content to use our services. There is always some competition out there that will offer lower prices. A good personable service is what earns customer loyalty.

You seem to think that people have the right to a job regardless. If you can't or won't do your job properly, then you shouldn't be in it. If you have an issue with a customer, you talk to your manager, you do NOT take it out on the customer. Simple as that, and yet many people seem to have forgotten this.

Yes becasue so EVERYBODY can buy things we have a high minimum wage. Do you want to pay people less? Give them less worker rights.

Actually I misunderstood your original point. I was pointing out that for the taxes we're already paying, we don't receive many true benefits. I get taxed, and yet I need private health insurance. I get taxed, and yet the roads are crap. etc. I wasn't refering to employment, but rather the difference in Ireland from the 80's in that we're paying more, and getting very few improved benefits.

So you want the government to force people to be polite in shops? THis is the incoherrant ranting that I hate. Completely unfocused and blame thrown at everybody yet no solution.

Now, you're misunderstanding me. No I don't. The government has no mandate/right to meddle in this. Beyond letting employers control their employees by being able to fire them if they don't do their jobs.

Actually I think it is the people who complain like you just did are the problem. They go into the shop pick up something they want (don't need) and grumble to themselves about the price(I can get this in India for half a cent Eddie Hobbes told me). By the time they get to the top of the que (grumbling all the time about waiting and governments inaction at increasing que speed) get to the till and the busy member of staff doesn't give you the appropriate greating (as you see it) so you throw the money at them . The member of staff deals with this all day everyday and you expect them to say "have a nice day":rolleyes:

Actually I hate shopping. I'm an impulse buyer. I go in, knowing exactly what I need, buy those products (often picking up some bargin :rolleyes: ) and leave as quickly and quietly as possible. Thats what I like. To get out as quick as possible. And if an employee has some trouble with a customer I may feel some sympathy, but not much. They're there to do their job. Again, if they have issues, their managers are there to deal with customer complaints. Not to get angry back.

My main position is that of a Credit Controller. I've had many customers get angry when I cut their service for not paying. I can't get angry, and insult them back. My job requires me to be professional and polite. If I'm not then I shouldn't be in my job, and have the responsibility the company gave me.

But thats not just it, is it? You're conveniently forgetting the employees that are rude, and insulting to customers. Whats your answer for them?

What goes around comes around. You want a polite friendly place start being polite and firendly. If you don't like the service somewher complin to somebody. Don't yell,scream or otherwise just politely tell them what the problem is and tell them what you would think is better service.

Actually I am quite polite. I hate violence of any kind. Its very rare that I raise my voice, because frankly loud voices make me uncormfortable. I'm one of those people that when they go to a foreign country, they can't haggle, even though its the tradition, simply becaue I feel its rude to do so.

However, if I receive a service thats crap I will [/b]speak[/b] to them about it. We pay through the nose for most things in Ireland, the least we can expect is a good product & a good level of service. This is not complaining for the sake of it. This is trying to maintain at least some level of standards.

THe solution is in your hands stop waiting for the government to fix it.

This is from the misunderstanding earlier, but it does bring up an interesting point. The Irish government is trying to be a nanny state. They've consistently brought in laws, and measures to protect us from ourselves. The powers of unions have gotten quite stupid, and often people seem to forget that employment is earned not something that they deserve regardless of their ability. And this is in part the reason that the level of service (across the country) is continuing to drop. Added to this Irish people are not as friendly as they were ten-fifteen years ago.

Do you really think that the people that have mentioned this are all part of a conspiracy to disparage Irish people? Nah.

stepbar · 29-03-2006 12:53AM

At the end of the day it costs nothing to say hello and smile, I frequently shop in a well known groceries shop on georges st and to be honest the service is very inconsistant. As a rule I always say "Hi" or something to that effect when I approach the counter, most of them dont know what to say! My god a customer saying hello to me :eek: That really annoys me :mad:
It seems to me in general Customer service is only average to poor in most places - when have you heard a customer advisor asking you "how are you"?? I think the last time someone was that nice was the time I was shopping in Club Denim in Dundrum - eh 3 months ago! And she wasnt Irish either...

29-03-2006 12:57AM

MorningStar wrote:

I never said you complained about prices also I said nothing about your comments so why is this directed to me? Are you using two names or something? It sounds like you are answering for Klaz

I've never felt the need to have two nicks, or to fabricate support for my beliefs or feelings. Regardless of whether its in the charter or not, to me thats wrong, and not worth considering.

29-03-2006 01:21AM

morningstar wrote:

Your opinion on construction is the kind of negative view that will effect your quality of life and those you meet. This attitude is the issue. Most people in Ireland beleive they are being screwed so complain about everthing whether right or not.

One last comment before I sleep. Example of construction and services in ireland.

I bought a house in a development in January (265K of which 30k had to be paid as deposit) of last year. A three story townhouse in Cork. The building of it was guaranteed to be finished and signed off in August. It finished in October, and a snag list was drawn up. I got a professional engineer in to check the building (despite claims from the builder that he was supposed to do it, which I found out later was a complete lie) . He found some environmental requirements that hadn't been met, and I added problems I found with lack of adequate ventillation, fire-proof doors, proper installation of doors/windows, and general bad finish on wood flooring (which I paid extra for) and the plastering of the walls.

The engineer didn't do his job, and I had to get part of my money back since because he missed so many problems. Probably the one that pissed me the most was that the gas boiler wsn't installed properly, and could have killed me, because the safety valve for the gas hadn't been installed with the rest of it. :mad:

I'm still waiting on the builder to fix some of the issues with the house, simply because if I hadn't signed off & paid I would have lost both the house & my deposit. Yup. All 30K deposit. Added to which I was still paying my mortgage while living in rented accomadation because my heating hadn't been installed properly, and it was a cold November here in Cork. So I moved in anyway. I could use the fireplace. Which I did.

The couches (1500 euro) I bought from a furniture store about two months before I moved it. They could hold them until I moved it? Perfect. Thanks. Nope. I rang later when I needed them. They'd sold them, and weren't getting in replacements until January. Could they give me one until the replacement arrived? nope. Only with threats of my suing them, did they provide me with one. So January eventually arrived, and did they provide me with the couch I bought? Nope. They decided they weren't continuing the product and offered me a bargin on another counch if I paid an extra 500 euro (so 2000 euro for couches? not a chance). When I asked for a refund, they tried to say i needed to buy the new couch. So I threatened legal action. They gave me my money back.

The Sky installation I ordered in September wasn't installed because the Irish independent installation crew sky use in Ireland disappeared or consistently failed to show up. I had to take time off work each time to be here to let them in. I couldn't get another crew in because the sky cards were sent to that one crew. So it finally got installed in January.

My heating is tempermental. Sometimes it works properly and sometimes it doesn't. I had to get in private carpenters (paid by me) to fix the windows because the builder still hasn't gotten around to do it. My drains blocked up for 4 days because they were badly constructed and it took him 4 days to get someone out here to fix it. The plastering on the walls is flaky, and I'll have to get someone in to fix it.

Before you defend the construction industry in Ireland get some first hand experience of it. You simply don't know what you're talking about. :mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-03-2006 01:28AM

jank wrote:

Dublin is a ****e hole as far as im concerned. Everybody I know up there who are working want to leave ang go somewhere else... In fact I know nobody that goes there by choice rather work finds them there. 2 years exp and they are out the gaff well some do get left behind of course.

Agreed, as one of those people, but for very different reasons...

...I'm bored senseless. I'm sick of being bored ****less in pubs, watching football and dancing to the same music in self-rightous nightclubs. They've even started to meld together so you they don't even have indiviuality or character. I've been to all the musesums and the gallerys and the parks.

I need something new, different and exciting and Dublin's not the place to be for that.

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 12:03PM

Moan moan moan moan.

You can't take life in isolation. Dublin has problems as does everywhere else. You want Paris you have to take the unemployment as well, imigration, run down buildings etc..
Moscow take the organised crime there and compare it to here, get paisd the local wages and see what you could buy.
The same applies to it all.

WHy are people coming here to live? Is it just economics? No. It is a better quality of life for most. If you have no money or job your quality of life is terrible.

Complainets about any service that we don't have compared to others miss the history of this country. We were broke we couldn't afford to make many services or maitain them. Suddenly having money doesn't make us able to afford something that took years to make and maintenace. London could not afford to build the underground again. Years of little funding don't make it possible to solve with cash. We have the biggest increase in health services in the world. Before people go on about well the money isn't spent well the UK are having the same problem with health expenditure giving little return. It is the nature of the beast.

The building industry is no different here to any where else using the type of construction here. People with 1 experinece of buying a new home do not know anything about construction or the building industry as a general rule. DO they have real complaints Yes does it mean the whole consturction industry in Ireland is the worst in the world? No! It is again the nature of the beast.

When people hit a certain age they suddenly get diseffected. Late 20s early 30s is that point for most. We have a huge portion of our population at this age right at the point where they want to buy houses in a comptetive market.

Irish people moan no matter what. It is self propegating.

fischerspooner · 29-03-2006 12:16PM

I really don't know where people are getting this rude thing from... must be the places you go to. The old pubs in town have the friendliest bar staff you'll meet anywhere. In the hustle and bustle of shopping centres and places like college green you hardly expect everyone to be super-friendly now do you? I know a lot of Germans living in Dublin and every one of them says this is a really friendly place, that they have never suffered any type of discrimination, and that everyone is really helpful, even bus-drivers!!
What more do you people want? There are tonnes of jobs, tonnes of places to spend your money, a mix of cultures, lots of bars and restaurants... ok the infrastructure sucks and the hospitals aren't great but look on the bright side, they may improve in the next 10 years, hold your horses.
If you have a problem with Dublin get the hell out of here, I'm sick to death of people from the country moaning about our city when they'll gladly work here. Every immigrant I've met that has moved here from Poland and the Baltic countries and Germany have praised the place and the people, the only people I've ever heard moan about it are Aussies/South Africans/Culchies and Brits. Whining c**ts.

DublinWriter · 29-03-2006 12:31PM

MorningStar wrote:

Moan moan moan moan...Irish people moan no matter what. It is self propegating.

I hate to sound like one of the 'back then we were poor but happy' brigade, but seeing my mates with kids now and remembering growing up in the 70's really brings home the contrast to me.

4 hour daily commutes...crushing mortages...having your kids being brought up by strangers in creches that charge thousands per month...bin charges...penalty points...health system falling apart. We never had any of that in the 70's/80's.

Sure, we all have jobs and money, but we also have bigger financial committments to pay off.

I can't honestly say we have a better standard of life now.

It's like we're running faster and faster to stand still.

I'd advise that most of the people who accuse other people of being moaners on this thread to maybe get into their 30's, have a few kids, then come back and tell us all about it.

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 12:51PM

DublinWriter wrote:

I hate to sound like one of the 'back then we were poor but happy' brigade, but seeing my mates with kids now and remembering growing up in the 70's really brings home the contrast to me.

Yes wearing rose coloured glasses on the past is really handy to make you life look terrible now.

DublinWriter wrote:

4 hour daily commutes...crushing mortages...having your kids being brought up by strangers in creches that charge thousands per month...

This is generally a personal choice and not a forced standard of living

DublinWriter wrote:

bin charges...penalty points...health system falling apart. We never had any of that in the 70's/80's.

Bin Cahrges: Are a modern reality in most countries and a EU directive.
Peanlty points: Are to stop people dying and if you follow the rules you don't get them a personal choice to break the law.
Health System: Is getting massive funding and failing elsewhere not that unique to Ireland
70s/80s: We had massive uemployment and migration out of the country. A Smaller population and acceptance. Money now does not solve the years of neglect and peopl don't accept this.

DublinWriter wrote:

Sure, we all have jobs and money, but we also have bigger financial committments to pay off.

We have more things and do not have to get into these financial situations peoplae are choosing to do this. I remeber people had to buy all their appliances on HP some still do but no where near as many that did

DublinWriter wrote:

I can't honestly say we have a better standard of life now.

I can say honestly that without a shadow of a doubt that standards of living for the poor has increased. THe standard of living and health of people is better. THe whole quality of life thing with massive commutes etc.. are generally choices that people don't take responsibility for

DublinWriter wrote:

I'd advise that most of the people who accuse other people of being moaners on this thread to maybe get into their 30's, have a few kids, then come back and tell us all about it.

I would like those who moan about, the commute to their 3 bed house in their 4x4 to get home to their partner (who also has a 4x4) after picking up the single child from the creche, to stop and take responsibility for their choices.
If you grew up in the 70s and 80s it was your childhood that was a great time and had a great quality of life not the country and way of life.

All the people who left the country to work had a great time in the 40s,50s,70s, 80s. If you want to talk to them go to London and talk to the homeless on the streets.

DublinWriter · 29-03-2006 12:56PM

Oh Morningstar,

I should have warned you about the unique medical condition that I have.

When I see a post with more than two quotes my eyes roll back and I immediately fall into a coma.

I'm sure you've made some good points there, but I find those long you said-I say-you said-I say posts unreadable.

David19 · 29-03-2006 01:11PM

jank wrote:

Dublin is a ****e hole as far as im concerned. Everybody I know up there who are working want to leave ang go somewhere else... In fact I know nobody that goes there by choice rather work finds them there. 2 years exp and they are out the gaff well some do get left behind of course.

I doubt everyone wants to leave or does leave....Dublin has at least a quarter of the population of the entire country, it has the highest house prices and the highest density of people. It wouldn't have any of these if it wasn't a desirable place to live.

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 01:17PM

DublinWriter wrote:

Oh Morningstar,

I should have warned you about the unique medical condition that I have.

When I see a post with more than two quotes my eyes roll back and I immediately fall into a coma.

I'm sure you've made some good points there, but I find those long you said-I say-you said-I say posts unreadable.

That must be really handy to let you say things which are simply untrue and made up:D

29-03-2006 01:19PM

MorningStar wrote:

Moan moan moan moan.

Whereas you seem content to dig your head in the sand and pretend that everything is wonderful. Simply wonderful. Ahhh..... Ignorance is Bliss.

You can't take life in isolation. Dublin has problems as does everywhere else. You want Paris you have to take the unemployment as well, imigration, run down buildings etc..

You seem to think we're accusing Dublin of having the worst problems in the world. That otehr cities are perfect, and without their own troubles. Actually I'm wondering where you're getting this from.

I definetly don't think the other cities are perfect. They have their own problems, and have aspects that are very unappealing.

What we're saying is that Dublin has its problems just like other cities, and they're getting worse. The difference between the cities lies with the attitude of the staff, which is what started the comparisons. It was you that introduced the problems economically, employment wise, etc that these cities have.

Moscow take the organised crime there and compare it to here, get paisd the local wages and see what you could buy.
The same applies to it all.

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Russia has a completely different economic setup for its citizens to here in the west. Did you know that mortgages are only a recent occurance for russian citizens, and that most people are living in accomadation provided by the state? Or that while wages are low, for the most part so are living expenses?

But even taking that aside, why do you keep trying to avoid the issue we're talking about. Attitude. I referred to Moscow in relation to peoples attitudes, and the response I received from workers. You keep trying to introduce side subjects like economics, or crime. keep to the subject.

WHy are people coming here to live? Is it just economics? No. It is a better quality of life for most. If you have no money or job your quality of life is terrible.

Agreed. No problem with that at all.

Complainets about any service that we don't have compared to others miss the history of this country. We were broke we couldn't afford to make many services or maitain them. Suddenly having money doesn't make us able to afford something that took years to make and maintenace. London could not afford to build the underground again. Years of little funding don't make it possible to solve with cash. We have the biggest increase in health services in the world. Before people go on about well the money isn't spent well the UK are having the same problem with health expenditure giving little return. It is the nature of the beast.

Hmm... ok. A few examples. How much was spent on electronic voting which was never used? How much was spent on the Luas? How come the toll bridges are given to private companies? Port tunnel? National equatic centre? Dublin sewerage system?

The nature of the beast? You really want me to accept that? Sure....Perhaps if more careful planning, better research into companies, and a little bit more practical thinking and we'd be alot closer to having the infrastructure to support our new immigrants... Hell, even to improve our own standards of living.

The building industry is no different here to any where else using the type of construction here. People with 1 experinece of buying a new home do not know anything about construction or the building industry as a general rule. DO they have real complaints Yes does it mean the whole consturction industry in Ireland is the worst in the world? No! It is again the nature of the beast.

How much experience do I need? 2 house? 5? 10? Considering how hard it was for me to get the money for this house, how would I get to be qualified? how many houses have you bought, in order to determine that i don't have enough experience?

And actually this is my second time buying a house. My first house was built in the 60's. A very solid terraced house, not that impressive, which I sold later for about 30k profit. yes, I needed to be part of the property ladder before I could get a better home.

So am I now qualified to speak about the housing sector?

Are you continuously posting in ignorance here?

When people hit a certain age they suddenly get diseffected. Late 20s early 30s is that point for most. We have a huge portion of our population at this age right at the point where they want to buy houses in a comptetive market.

Thats nice. I don't agree actually. But what does this have to do with anything we're talking about? What relevence does it have?

Irish people moan no matter what. It is self propegating.

Interestingly enough, non-smokers moaned and moaned about smokers and eventually got their smoking ban. People here in cork moaned about litter being dropped and they brought in an on the spot fine for littering (mostly against chewing gum, or cig butts)

Sometimes the moaning does achieve results. But then you're happy to ignore the problems this country has, and say "well other countries have them, so its normal". Thats so useful.... :rolleyes:

Dilly1 · 29-03-2006 01:23PM

Opportunist wrote:

hi all,

I mean don't get me wrong I generally like Dublin, but all this rat race mullark is getting a bit irritating. I mean everything seems to have got out of hand here in the last few years. Mainly the cost and quality of living. Generally the customer service in shops getting worse and I'm nearly stunned if a shop assistant says 'have a nice day'. Of course there are the odd exceptions, but what the hell has happened to Dublin lately? Now this is gonna sound really petty but a friend of mine got a bagel today & asked for a little bit of extra topping and they charged her nearly a euro extra! I know it's not much, but you'd think they would make a small exception for regular customers. Everything seems to be about getting one up. I used an internet cafe in Inchicore the other day and it was a particular fee for the hour. Quite literally I spent 1 min and 50 seconds on the email as I was only checking something nb and the feicer charged me the hourly fee. This place does my head in...

apologies for rant, anyone had any similar experiences?

Opp

Dublin is a very bland city where everything is over priced, And even when you do pay top dollar you get a second rate service no matter what it is, and apart from the fact that there is shag all to do in this large market town (maybe it is a city??), you have the annoying smug D4 type plastics british snobs who think Lillies is a great place to go at the weekend (when we all know they are lying), and on the other hand you have all the skangers with a differant tracksuit for every day of the week, who look like they are in training for the special olympics (most of them would probably qualify). but I suppose at the end of the day its home .. sort of.

29-03-2006 01:24PM

David19 wrote:

I doubt everyone wants to leave or does leave....Dublin has at least a quarter of the population of the entire country, it has the highest house prices and the highest density of people. It wouldn't have any of these if it wasn't a desirable place to live.

You might find that it has the most variety of jobs in the market, with the best opportunities for advancement. If you want the quickest way to management and higher wages, in most fields, you're going to have to spend some time in Dublin. Desirability isn't everything. Sacrifices will be made.:rolleyes:

Sean7 · 29-03-2006 01:38PM

I heard it actually has a third of the populatin now. Something like 4.5m people in Ireland, 1.5m of which are in Co. Dublin. That's not exact, just as close as I can remember.

I'm fed up of Dublin too. Not because of any of the problems above. Every city has problems like that. I can tell you from experience that I'd rather live in Dublin or Cork/Galway for that matter than any of Ireland's towns. I'm just fed up of Dublin because I've been here too long. I arrived here to go to college and thought I'd spend years here but now I plan to leave next year, all going to plan. I'm sick of being in the same places all the time, that may be what's getting to a lot of you. Take a holiday for a while if ya can and see if ya miss the place. Probably won't change your opinion of the place but it's an excuse to leave for a while.

Tar.Aldarion · 29-03-2006 01:44PM

I have been here for a day now, can't wait to leave.

David19 · 29-03-2006 01:47PM

Deleted User wrote:

You might find that it has the most variety of jobs in the market, with the best opportunities for advancement. If you want the quickest way to management and higher wages, in most fields, you're going to have to spend some time in Dublin. Desirability isn't everything. Sacrifices will be made.:rolleyes:

Surely all that contributes to it being a good place to live?

On a personal level, if I was to stay in Ireland, I couldn't see myself living anywhere but Dublin and thats true for all my friends. To say no one wants to live here is just wrong. IMO its the best part of the country to live in due to more jobs, better opportunities for advancement and better money(as you pointed out), more things to do etc

Victor McDade · 29-03-2006 01:53PM

We're western europeans, we'll never be content with what we have. We work too hard for not enough money, our boss is a prick, just about everything is too expensive and the grass is always greener...

Still, I'd rather be here than in (the majority of) Africa or South America where millions of people struggle to fing clean drinking water, food and somewhere safe to sleep at night. We tend to forget that these people would give an arm & a leg to live here and have the opportunities we have.

If you don't like Dublin, leave!

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 02:02PM

Deleted User wrote:

Whereas you seem content to dig your head in the sand and pretend that everything is wonderful. Simply wonderful. Ahhh..... Ignorance is Bliss.

I deny nothing I just don't look eleswhere and say they can do why can't we. I look about and see they can't do it either as life is swings and roundabouts.

Deleted User wrote:

You seem to think we're accusing Dublin of having the worst problems in the world. That otehr cities are perfect, and without their own troubles. Actually I'm wondering where you're getting this from.

I definetly don't think the other cities are perfect. They have their own problems, and have aspects that are very unappealing.

People are saying things here are terrible and I am saying they aren't and they are being overblown. If you point out another cities benifits you need to know the cost.

Deleted User wrote:

What we're saying is that Dublin has its problems just like other cities, and they're getting worse. The difference between the cities lies with the attitude of the staff, which is what started the comparisons. It was you that introduced the problems economically, employment wise, etc that these cities have.

"WE" are saying nothing you can't speak for all other posters as some are saying this city of my home is sh*thole. I am pointing out to you that the attitude is not the staff it is everyone. I see it daily, I have seen it around the world with my job and from my experinece I find people have gotten ruder . They are not worse than anywhere else with a similar population. I think my years of working in the retail industry around the world might let me see more than you

Deleted User wrote:

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Russia has a completely different economic setup for its citizens to here in the west. Did you know that mortgages are only a recent occurance for russian citizens, and that most people are living in accomadation provided by the state? Or that while wages are low, for the most part so are living expenses?

I never cliamed to know that much about Russia. I do know from TV that technically you can't own the majority of the property as an individual in the cities. I guess it could have changed but I lost interest in the Russian property market after all the reports of organise crime and money launderying.

Deleted User wrote:

But even taking that aside, why do you keep trying to avoid the issue we're talking about. Attitude. I referred to Moscow in relation to peoples attitudes, and the response I received from workers. You keep trying to introduce side subjects like economics, or crime. keep to the subject.

ACtually you just keep ignoring the fact I am saying the staff are not the problem on their own. THey are a reflection of how they are treated form my experinece. I =also keep telling you to read the firat post where the cost of living is the main issue of this thread. You want to talk about attitude go ahead I'm keeping on topic.

Deleted User wrote:

Hmm... ok. A few examples. How much was spent on electronic voting which was never used? How much was spent on the Luas? How come the toll bridges are given to private companies? Port tunnel? National equatic centre? Dublin sewerage system?

We try to be inovative and use a new system and it fails so that is abad thing. Maybe baddly implemented but the intent was good. It was actually moaning that made it a waste of money, the suystem actually works but moaners didn't like the way it did it.
THe tunnel is having the same issues the majority of tunnels of this nature do. Moaning about it doesn't make it wrong or right it is just moaning.
You are just giving the moan stories and going into the detail you will find most are no where near to the level of problem that people moan about. WHy not through in bin charges and creche fees like somebody else did. It is moaning and not actually holding people accountable. Have you written a single letter of complaint about these issue you mentioned?

Deleted User wrote:

The nature of the beast? You really want me to accept that? Sure....Perhaps if more careful planning, better research into companies, and a little bit more practical thinking and we'd be alot closer to having the infrastructure to support our new immigrants... Hell, even to improve our own standards of living.

Deleted User wrote:

How much experience do I need? 2 house? 5? 10? Considering how hard it was for me to get the money for this house, how would I get to be qualified?
]how many houses have you bought, in order to determine that i don't have enough experience?

12 new houses and 5 older houses. My father worked in the building industry as did I for a few years. I worked outside this country also. I don't expect to know all engine construction when I buy a car yet you seem to think buying two properties makes you the same as an engineer and able to comment on the entire industry? It is this attitude of indignation about expectations that is the the problem not somebody in a shop being polite.

Deleted User wrote:

Are you continuously posting in ignorance here?

Sorry what is your building qualification in? I have diploma as a civil engineering technician I think I might know a little about construction. I work in software now where we provide retail software around the world. I often train new staff and stay weeks in shops assiting staff. My ignorance on the subject would be what exactly? How long do you stay in a shop?

Deleted User wrote:

Thats nice. I don't agree actually. But what does this have to do with anything we're talking about? What relevence does it have?

Becasue it would explain the attitude you are talking about!

Deleted User wrote:

Interestingly enough, non-smokers moaned and moaned about smokers and eventually got their smoking ban. People here in cork moaned about litter being dropped and they brought in an on the spot fine for littering (mostly against chewing gum, or cig butts)

ACtually most people with knowledge of the subject are aware that thereal reason was to make sure the government didn't get sued for inaction in the future. Moaning brings in bans like the magic mushroom ban that doesn't actually stop the sale of hallucingenics leagally from a shop.

Deleted User wrote:

Sometimes the moaning does achieve results. But then you're happy to ignore the problems this country has, and say "well other countries have them, so its normal". Thats so useful.... :rolleyes:

Moaning makes people misreable full stop. Doing something gets results. You are ignore what I am saying because I don't agree with you . Try doing something and stop moaning. I suggest doing something and you moan some more great result:eek:

29-03-2006 02:03PM

David19 wrote:

Surely all that contributes to it being a good place to live?

On a personal level, if I was to stay in Ireland, I couldn't see myself living anywhere but Dublin and thats true for all my friends. To say no one wants to live here is just wrong. IMO its the best part of the country to live in due to more jobs, better opportunities for advancement and better money(as you pointed out), more things to do etc

No. It just means that its a great place to start your career in business. You mention that most of your friends couldn't see themselves living anywhere else, whereas most of the people I know feel they'd never return. I know two people that love living in Dublin, and truely enjoy the atmosphere there even after a few years.

But I got my basic experience there, moved to other towns/cities, and now I can work wherever I want. Although I'll go where my current job is. I've found the company I want to work for...

But I will never live in Dublin again. Its just not for me.

But the issue I had with Dublin wasn't dublin itself. it does have great facilities and great options for entertainment. Its more expensive than the rest of the country, but most cpitals are. No. I wouldn't live there because I didn't like how people generally behaved. The attitude didn't appeal to me, either from those in shops, or the general punter I'd meet out in clubs.

savemejebas wrote:

If you don't like Dublin, leave!

I did.

But I can still talk about it. I'm not trying to change your opinion of Dublin. If you like it, good for you. I know a number of people that hate Cork, whereas I quite like it. So if there was a thread about cork being bad, I wouldn't tell people to leave. If they want to comment about the city, its no skin off my back. :rolleyes:

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 02:07PM

Dilly1 wrote:

Dublin is a very bland city where everything is over priced, And even when you do pay top dollar you get a second rate service no matter what it is, and apart from the fact that there is shag all to do in this large market town (maybe it is a city??), etc....

Name a place where things are price correctly in your eyes?

OK what can't you do here that you can do everywhere else?

Explain how it is not a city?

WHere is everything right in your eyes?

David19 · 29-03-2006 02:14PM

Deleted User wrote:

No. It just means that its a great place to start your career in business. You mention that most of your friends couldn't see themselves living anywhere else, whereas most of the people I know feel they'd never return. I know two people that love living in Dublin, and truely enjoy the atmosphere there even after a few years.

But I got my basic experience there, moved to other towns/cities, and now I can work wherever I want. Although I'll go where my current job is. I've found the company I want to work for...

But I will never live in Dublin again. Its just not for me.

But the issue I had with Dublin wasn't dublin itself. it does have great facilities and great options for entertainment. Its more expensive than the rest of the country, but most cpitals are. No. I wouldn't live there because I didn't like how people generally behaved. The attitude didn't appeal to me, either from those in shops, or the general punter I'd meet out in clubs.

A good place to start a career in business is a plus point for living in a particular area.

The rest of your post is all fair enough. It is mostly personal opinion in the end of the day. I was just directly responding to someone who said Dublin was a ****hole and no one wants to live there. I think thats clearly not true. As I've said I don't think I know anyone who wants to move to another part of Ireland or even out of the country(apart from myself!).

SprostonGreen · 29-03-2006 02:33PM

MorningStar wrote:

Getting back to ignorance, I think you there are definitely displays of ignorance on this thread and it hasn't been me.

Oh but you have, quit moaning about moaning.

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 02:36PM

SprostonGreen wrote:

Oh but you have, quit moaning about moaning.

Point them out then

DublinWriter · 29-03-2006 03:17PM

SprostonGreen wrote:

Oh but you have, quit moaning about moaning.

That would be a meta-moan then?!

And Morningstar, you really are a numpty if you think that people leave their kids in creches as a lifestyle choice. These days both partners need to work to cover the mortgage and other bills.

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 03:37PM

DublinWriter wrote:

That would be a meta-moan then?!

And Morningstar, you really are a numpty if you think that people leave their kids in creches as a lifestyle choice. These days both partners need to work to cover the mortgage and other bills.

If you have a house with more rooms than you need and two cars that use huge amount of fuel and have to work two jobs to fund that it is your choice. There is no way everybody living like this is forced to live like this they chose to do it. So the fact their kids are in creches so they can do it is a choice .

You want to belive it is the rat race culture and let people take no responsibilities for their choices.

Archeron · 29-03-2006 03:44PM

MorningStar wrote:

Manners are a set of rules, rules are authority get the idea. Tell somebody they are rude on the street and they blow up.

You people are so mad you aren't listening to what I am saying. I have told you how I suggest you deal with rude staff. I highlighted to help I suggest you read it again.

I have stated a course of action to address the problem. What are you saying Archeron?

The truth is the staff are reacting to how they are treated it is that simple. Everybody reacts to how they are treated. You are so mad that you keep thinking I am saying it is not true that people are ruder. I have said everybody is ruder. What do you want me to say? Tell me because you don't like the idea tha I agree. I don't agree that we are ruder than any other western city. I think we moan about it more than any other city and put ourselves down and won't do our part to correct it.

Manners are far from a set of rules. They are not enforced, they are not even acknowledged by many people, so that is hardly an emample of authority. If people wish to observe whats generally accepted as manners they will, no authority involved whatsoever.
What I am saying is simply that the mannerisms and attidutes of people in Ireland has changed significantly in recent years, be that the advent of wealth or whatever other reason we wish to blame. You say we are so mad we arent listening to you? Where do you get this idea? I am not mad, I am far from mad. I am solidly cynical and in most cases where bad attitudes are encountered, I respond with a cold and sarcastic smile. I am not mad, I am merely pointing out my point of view. You state a course of action, but that in no way guarantees the problem being addressed. Yes, we can complain, yes we can politely point out the right and wrong way we think things should be done. Will anything happen as a result? Probably not. I've experienced this firthand on numberous occcasions.
The fact of staff responding to the way they are treated is untrue in my opinion. As I have always been involved in interaction with clients (across the world) I have always got the utmost respect for people, but that does not always work both ways, and that is what people are pointing out in this thread. If people are reacting to the way they are treated then this the most viscious circle I've encountered and i reckon within 10 years we'll be going shopping armed with baseball bats and golf clubs.
I disagree that we moan more than most people to be frank. In fact, i think we dont complain enough, and thats whats led us to be receiving this ****ty service in the first place. People have goteen away with treating each other mildly badly, so now its quite badly. If they keep getting away with that, then it will be really badly.
Also, TBH, the whole conversation of economics, employment levels, global crime etc is irrelevant to this thread, as this is about how IRISH people have changed over time. Simply stating an opinion, I dont hate Dublin, I dont hate Ireland, but I do think that too many people think its perfectly okay to treat each other like dirt.

DublinWriter · 29-03-2006 03:45PM

MorningStar wrote:

If you have a house with more rooms than you need and two cars that use huge amount of fuel and have to work two jobs to fund that it is your choice. There is no way everybody living like this is forced to live like this they chose to do it.

I'm talking about both parents having to work just to afford the basics.

A mate of mine has one young kid, his wife has another on the way. They live in a 2-bed in Kimmage that they bought a few years ago for €350K.

He normally cycles to work, she drives. They both need to work to afford to pay the €2,800 monthly mortgage payment.

Your arguement about both partners having to work just to afford luxeries and 4x4's is just so much phish.

Your maxium mortgage is calculated on 3.5 times your annual salary. So in order to get a mortgage of €350,000 you'd need to be earing €100K a year. That really isn't very practical for most couples is it morningstar?

MorningStar · 29-03-2006 03:55PM

DublinWriter wrote:

I'm talking about both parents having to work just to afford the basics.

A mate of mine has one young kid, his wife has another on the way. They live in a 2-bed in Kimmage that they bought a few years ago for €350K.

He normally cycles to work, she drives. They both need to work to afford to pay the €2,800 monthly mortgage payment.

Your arguement about both partners having to work just to afford luxeries and 4x4's is just so much phish.

Your maxium mortgage is calculated on 3.5 times your annual salary. So in order to get a mortgage of €350,000 you'd need to be earing €100K a year. That really isn't very practical for most couples is it morningstar?

Where are you living? THis sounds like pure fiction. First off a few years ago they paid how much for Kimmage? Why pay so much? Next why is their mortgage so high? Next since when have you only been able to get 3.5 time of your wages in Ireland? Your mate was making €100k a year with his wife then? Their mortgage would be a small portion of their wages
They would be better off renting and if they don't know that then they have a problem with understanding that is a bad choice. Thier choice to pay too much for their house when they could live better renting with less maintenace. As their friend you should tell them they could live a better quality of life by renting.

Is anyone else fed up of Dublin?

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