Is anyone else fed up of Dublin?

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

You guess very wrong. I have a second house that I'm selling which I'll be subject to paying CGT on. This has been on my mind recently and I incorrectly stated my friend would have to pay CGT if he sold up, which he wouldn't as its his primary residance.

And yerself? Mortgage?

So you are wrong on that any chance you were wrong on the otherstuff

Explain your crazy figures then or do you prefer to not as it shows you are wrong again. Third time you avoided them

You told us their mortgage is €300k @ €2,800 a month.

If you had a mortgage you would know that sounds wrong. How did you not notice

DublinWriter wrote:

Don't fink so. They bought it for 315K three years ago. It was valued at 500K last month.

DublinWriter wrote:

A mate of mine has one young kid, his wife has another on the way. They live in a 2-bed in Kimmage that they bought a few years ago for €350K

Which is it? Sounds like you are making this up due to incorrect and contradicting facts stated by you. One price would have had stamp duty and you also said their mortgae was only €300k which means they had €50k+ stamp duty. Your friends wages and saving amount to an awful lot and don't sound like hardship as you stated.

I am a landlord and have been for many years as have my family. I pay a lot of attention to Dublin and still think the prices for Kimage is wrong even if it was Terenure I think the figure are wrong. Since you posted about the same people the house price has gone from 350-315 and the house has moved from Kimage to Terenure and I thought you originally said its new value was €550k. Why all the changes? It is very logical to assume you are lying at this point but I'll give you the opportunity to explain yourself.

You see I would argue that stating things worse than they are is why people fed up with Dublin.

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

I am a landlord and have been for many years as have my family. I pay a lot of attention to Dublin and still think the prices for Kimage is wrong even if it was Terenure I think the figure are wrong.

Yaaawn. Just wasted five mintues of my life on myhome.ie to bring you the following selection of pretty 'average' 3/4 bed-semis in Kimmage/Terrenure ranging from 550K to 950K.

http://www1.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=265345&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

http://www1.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=264367&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

http://www1.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=264753&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

http://www1.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=263244&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

Yaaawn. Just wasted five mintues of my life on

You could just explain why you contridicted your self and the payment you claim your friends are making. I know you can buy property in kimage/terenure for the price you now claim but it isn't 3 years ago and the houses you posted aren't 2 beds either. The number of beds in a house matters a great deal. You listed off a story of hardship which you have changed and can't be factual. Explain why? The price of property has nothing to do whith the fact you contradict yourself and appear to be lying

http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=264773&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

You told us their mortgage is e300k @ e2,800 a month.

want to ignore that for a 5th time?

You are lying or trolling

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

You could just explain why you contridicted your self and the payment you claim your friends are making.

The term of the mortgage was 12 years. Their place was valued at 500K recently. Do you want me to give you the guy's phone number or what?

MorningStar wrote:

I know you can buy property in kimage/terenure for the price you now claim but it isn't 3 years ago and the houses you posted aren't 2 beds either. The number of beds in a house matters a great deal.

Yes it does. Their 2 bed was valued at 500K. The 3 beds I showed you currently on myhome were all around the 600K-700K range.

The original thrust of this argument was that I stated that both partners need to be working in order to afford a mortgage these days, and you stated that it was nonscense and only both partners need to work if they want to buy 4x4s and plasma TVs and that putting kids in a creche was a matter of choice.

Tell you what, do the maths on this yourself. Go to the following BOI site and see what both partners would need to be earning for a mortgage of €350K.

Now do a similar calculation on the same BOI site for one partner working.

And I'm being very generous here...there's not a lot left in Dublin around the 350K mark.

http://www.bankofireland.ie/html/gws/personal/buy_house/calcs/General_Content_1000001.html

You say that you're a landlord, but do you/have you ever had a mortgage yourself?

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

The term of the mortgage was 12 years. Their place was valued at 500K recently. Do you want me to give you the guy's phone number or what?

Why did you ignore it 5 times if it was so easy to explain?
WHy have you changed the price from €350k to €315k?

DublinWriter wrote:

Yes it does. Their 2 bed was valued at 500K. The 3 beds I showed you currently on myhome were all around the 600K-700K range.

Yet I find a 2 bed in Kimage for €380k and you change the location to Terenure why?
You changed the price from €550k to €500k why?

DublinWriter wrote:

The original thrust of this argument was that I stated that both partners need to be working in order to afford a mortgage these days, and you stated that it was nonscense and only both partners need to work if they want to buy 4x4s and plasma TVs and that putting kids in a creche was a matter of choice.

I still maintain that this is a choice. It was their choice to take out a 15 year mortgage (according to you) But that doesn't work out either when I do the sums so I think you made it up still. THese people don't both NEED to work to pay their mortgage the CHOSE to work this way to pay it off in 15 years!

DublinWriter wrote:

Tell you what, do the maths on this yourself. Go to the following BOI site and see what both partners would need to be earning for a mortgage of €350K.

I did that's why I am pointing out you are not correct. It took you how long to tell us the term of their mortgage? Why so long? I guess it probably took you that long to go off and figure out how to explain the figure and still get it wrong. So you know to be able to pay off a mortgage in 15 years is a luxury. Your story of hardship for your friend doesn't qualify as they (if they actually exist) decided to save 15 years off the standard FTBs mortgage. You want to now change it back to normal FTBs becasue your example is absolute nonsense when it comes to a how horrible Dublin is to live in due to the cost of living. Very few people can afford to pay their mortgage off in 15 years many go for 35 now.

DublinWriter wrote:

You say that you're a landlord, but do you/have you ever had a mortgage yourself?

Yes I have a mortgage and I seem to know more about it than you. Your figures still don't make sense so you are either lying or a troll. Either way as evidence that life in Dublin is horrible due the cost of living your example falls flat on its face. Your friends are living a luxury which maybe tough work but their choice all the way. Are you going to try and tell me they had to take 15year mortgage due to some weird forced reason like one of them only has that long to live? Maybe they are both near retirement, wait you would have to explain the cnew child,, one of them is close to retirement maybe? I exicitededly wait your next work of fiction Dublinwriter. I highlighted flaws in your story so maybe you can try and answer them after your efforts to avoid them AGAIN! A good writer can't leave such massive plot holes.

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

Why did you ignore it 5 times if it was so easy to explain?
WHy have you changed the price from €350k to €315k?

Because they bought the place for 350K, paying a 35K deposit. Sheeesh. Take a chill pill!

MorningStar wrote:

Yet I find a 2 bed in Kimage for €380k and you change the location to Terenure why?
You changed the price from €550k to €500k why?

Because I can't type! It was valued at €550.

MorningStar wrote:

I did that's why I am pointing out you are not correct. It took you how long to tell us the term of their mortgage? Why so long? I guess it probably took you that long to go off and figure out how to explain the figure and still get it wrong.

Because I'm not privvy to all the its and outs of my friend's financial details. When I asked him the term of the loan he said 12 years.

MorningStar wrote:

Your friends are living a luxury which maybe tough work but their choice all the way.

Believe you me, their lives are far from luxury.

Tell you what Eddie Hobbes, this will settle the arguement. Let's assume that a couple are first time buyers and are buying that mystery property in Kimage you found for €380.

Let's assume they'll have to take out a mortgage of 350K.

Now, in order to get that mortgage, tell me how much Daddy will have to be earning if Mummy is staying at home.

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

Because they bought the place for 350K, paying a 35K deposit. Sheeesh. Take a chill pill!

You said the price paid was €315 and also €350. Their mortgage was €300k. SO that means your firend paid the €350+stamp duty+fees+ furniture etc... and only got €300k so they are better off then most. It sounds like you a lying as you didn't correct it untill you absolutly had to

DublinWriter wrote:

Because I can't type! It was valued at €550.

Yet you have been calling €500k more than once and you choose to ignore it when I pointed it out to the first time

DublinWriter wrote:

Because I'm not privvy to all the its and outs of my friend's financial details. When I asked him the term of the loan he said 12 years.

You knew the mortgage they were paying and have one of your own and you didn't notice what you saying didn't add up

DublinWriter wrote:

Believe you me, their lives are far from luxury.

I didn't say they were living a life of luxury just that it is a luxury to pay off your mortgage in 15 or just 12 years.

DublinWriter wrote:

Tell you what Eddie Hobbes, this will settle the arguement. Let's assume that a couple are first time buyers and are buying that mystery property in Kimage you found for €380.

Lets see what is the mystery of the property I found? Go to myhome and look for 2 beds in kimage and there is more than one.
What has eddie hobbes go tto do with you lying and exagerating hardship. AS I said the reason Dublin feels like you are in a terrible place is your own fault. You made up a story about how hard it is in Dublin and some people believe it and feel low. The fact your story is not true is the point

DublinWriter wrote:

Let's assume they'll have to take out a mortgage of 350K.

Now, in order to get that mortgage, tell me how much Daddy will have to be earning if Mummy is staying at home.

If you can't get a mortgage to buy a house then rent! People elsewhere does it. You used your "friends" as an example and I have proved your example is useless and not true you can't even get your facts stright. Your friends are very rich and lucky people living as the choose which was what I pointed out about people.

Now I am sure you will reply again missing anything of importance. The truth is you have been caught being so completly wrong and avoided answering questions that pointed out how wrong you are. THis type of inaccurate story telling is why people feel so bad about Dublin.

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

You said the price paid was €315 and also €350. Their mortgage was €300k. SO that means your firend paid the €350+stamp duty+fees+ furniture etc... and only got €300k so they are better off then most. It sounds like you a lying as you didn't correct it untill you absolutly had to

*sigh* House was €350, deposit was €35, mortage was €315.

Yes, I'm sure they paid stamp duty, but guess what? I'm not their accountant! I can only accept what I'm told in good faith.

MorningStar wrote:

If you can't get a mortgage to buy a house then rent!

Well, you would say that, being the self-confessed landlord that you are!

Renting is dead money. I know that, you know that, we all know that.



Now stop that wriggling and answer my original question!...

Let's assume that a couple are first time buyers and are buying that mystery property in Kimage you found for €380.

Let's assume they'll have to take out a mortgage of 350K.

Now, in order to get that mortgage, tell me how much Daddy will have to be earning if Mummy is staying at home.

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

*sigh* House was €350, deposit was €35, mortage was €315.

Yes, I'm sure they paid stamp duty, but guess what? I'm not their accountant! I can only accept what I'm told in good faith.

Except you keep changing the facts so I don't beleive you. Putting in a sigh to show how hard done by you feel means nothing. You have changed every single figure you mentioned. If you can't even think your own made up story right there is no reason to trust you.

DublinWriter wrote:

Well, you would say that, being the self-confessed landlord that you are!

Renting is dead money. I know that, you know that, we all know that.

Aren't you a landlord two or at least a property speculators with two properties?
Renting is money for a service neither dead nor alive. If it is cheaper and a better quality of life than a mortgage it has a massive value to the user. So what we all know is not the same as you have a belief that owning is essential to life it isn't as proved the world over.

I am not going to discuss the economics of a fictional unit becasue as evident you will exagerate and make up conditions. A 1 bed appartment can be bought by a couple to meet their needs costing as little as €210k all around Dublin. That also blows your ignorant view of how much they will loan you. Why do they NEED anything more? Average wage is €30k that is affordable. That is all the discussion on that subject needed.

I maintain the reason people feel terrible about Dublin is becasue people moan about things. You moaned about your friend life yet the truth is you were wrong. These people choose to live like they do (if the exist) so try to stay on topic and admit your example was a load of cr*p.

Lambsbread

MorningStar wrote:

Renting is money for a service neither dead nor alive. If it is cheaper and a better quality of life than a mortgage it has a massive value to the user. So what we all know is not the same as you have a belief that owning is essential to life it isn't as proved the world over.

Thanks for this, I am so sick of people who use the "Renting is dead money" line.

tj-music.com

Cantab. wrote:

Any person who wants a job can work. And get paid well at that. What were once luxuries (wide screen TVs, socialising etc.) are now demanded by people.

You should count yourself lucky and stop moaning - there's a huge amount of opportunity out there for you if you just go out and grab some of the action.

You don't like the bagel shop? Well then don't go back there. Simple rule of capitalism.

You ignorant ****! In case you haven´t noticed there is now way more violence and way more gangs and murder cases in Dublin than there ever were. There is children and woman trafficking and violence against non nationals. The country of the hundred thousand welcomes is no longer welcoming. It is also not true that every job is well paid. Wake up:mad:

snickerpuss

Dublin suits me just good, its not great all the time and i'd probably like it even more if i lived in a nicer suburb but i kinda think most cities will have bad points and you're never gonna find somewhere perfect.
I wouldn't move anyway.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Was in Temple Bar yesterday, saw three children begging. Reminded me of people on this thread sying how wonderful Dublin is. I felt like asking the kids.

Just an observation, carry on arguing about mortgages and rents

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

Except you keep changing the facts so I don't beleive you. Putting in a sigh to show how hard done by you feel means nothing. You have changed every single figure you mentioned. If you can't even think your own made up story right there is no reason to trust you.

Ah now morningstar, toys back in the pram. I have to congratulate you on pulling me up over every little typo. Do you offer proof-reading services too? I'm serious!

Anyway to recap:

Friend in 2003 bought house in Kimage for €350. Forgetting about all the he-says she-says stuff about the mortgage, the house has now been valued at €550K.

After three years, friend is €200K up.

After three years had they been renting said property, they'd be about €40-€45K down with nothing to show.

Ergo, renting = dead money.

MorningStar wrote:

If it is cheaper and a better quality of life than a mortgage it has a massive value to the user. So what we all know is not the same as you have a belief that owning is essential to life it isn't as proved the world over.

By the 'world over' you're meaning France, Germany and Belgium, right? Happily enough for their citizens, those countries actually look after their elderly when they get sick.

MorningStar wrote:

I am not going to discuss the economics of a fictional unit becasue as evident you will exagerate and make up conditions. A 1 bed appartment can be bought by a couple to meet their needs costing as little as €210k all around Dublin. That also blows your ignorant view of how much they will loan you. Why do they NEED anything more?

Dunno, maybe they'll decide to have kids at some point! A one bed is hardly enough unless your advocating a return to the one-bedroom tennament conditions in Dublin at the turn of the century.

MorningStar wrote:

Average wage is €30k that is affordable. That is all the discussion on that subject needed.

Well, not really, and this is where you get tripped up on your own logic.

According to that BOI mortgage calculator I mentioned earlier, €135K is the max amount the max a first-time buying couple with a single earner making €30K pa can borrow.

...unless you're suggesting that both parents are making €30K a year?

But that can't be the case as you stated that couples who both work are only doing so to afford luxuries like 4x4s and plasma TVs.

Please explain how a couple making €30K pa could even afford just the 1-bed €210 property you mentioned?

nlgbbbblth

DublinWriter wrote:

renting = dead money.

Myself and my wife went on holidays to Texas for 10 days last year.

We decided to rent a car while we were there.

Are you saying that we should have bought one instead???

nlgbbbblth

edit: The Captain of My Heart post

DublinWriter

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Myself and my wife went on holidays to Texas for 10 days last year.

We decided to rent a car while we were there.

Are you saying that we should have bought one instead???

No, unless you planned on living in it for a couple of years.

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

Ah now morningstar, toys back in the pram. I have to congratulate you on pulling me up over every little typo. Do you offer proof-reading services too? I'm serious!

They were not typos becasue you kept repeating your revised figures and changing them back again. I don't need to discuss this any further as an example either way it proves that these people made a CHOICE to do this. THe people do not need two jobs to survive they need two jobs in order to pay their mortgage off in 15years or less maybe

DublinWriter wrote:

Anyway to recap:

Friend in 2003 bought house in Kimage for €350. Forgetting about all the he-says she-says stuff about the mortgage, the house has now been valued at €550K.

You changed the value again of how much the property is worth now.

DublinWriter wrote:

After three years had they been renting said property, they'd be about €40-€45K down with nothing to show.

THey would also have an extra grand and a half a month plus more time with family. THey DECIDEED owning a house was more important. That is a CHOICE. THey would not be down any money they would have spent it on a service.

DublinWriter wrote:

Ergo, renting = dead money.

So what is the value you put on family time? Rent is neither dead nor alive it is money for a service no matter what you say that is the reality. Your feeling on the subject mean nothing.They have DECIDED to sacrifice family time in order to get a house paid for in 15 years. Can I also point out you own more than one property does that mean you feel like you are stealing from people? You are at least pushing up the price by reducing supply!

DublinWriter wrote:

By the 'world over' you're meaning France, Germany and Belgium, right? Happily enough for their citizens, those countries actually look after their elderly when they get sick.

I mean the world over. IN France I think you'll notice that man many elderly people died due to lack of care during the heat wave was it last year or the year before. I have done charity work in the old folks homes in this country provided by the state.

DublinWriter wrote:

Dunno, maybe they'll decide to have kids at some point! A one bed is hardly enough unless your advocating a return to the one-bedroom tennament conditions in Dublin at the turn of the century.

Yes when they want kids maybe they can move up the ladder. It is aluxury to be able to afford a place that will cater for all your future possible needs with your first house purcahse. A one bed place can certainly cater for a child untill they are 4. In Italy I have family where 4 adult live in the same 2 bed appartment. The 2 children are now grown after being raised there and are differnt sex. I suggest you look up the word tenement becasue you obviously don't know what it means. I suggested they bought a 1 bed not rent.

DublinWriter wrote:

Well, not really, and this is where you get tripped up on your own logic.

According to that BOI mortgage calculator I mentioned earlier, €135K is the max amount the max a first-time buying couple with a single earner making €30K pa can borrow.

...unless you're suggesting that both parents are making €30K a year?

Actully you didn't pay attention I said couple not parents and I am suggesting they both earn the average industrial wage of €30k which means they can get a mortgage of €270k according to your calculator.(this also proves you wrong on understanding of how it is worked out) If you are earning such money when you DECIDE to have a child you would find it tuffer alright but it still affordable to allow one of the couple to leave work. THat is assuming at no point do these people manage to make more money which is unlikley

DublinWriter wrote:

But that can't be the case as you stated that couples who both work are only doing so to afford luxuries like 4x4s and plasma TVs.

I think you'll find I said that not everybody is forced into working two jobs and the majority do so for luxuries. I am sure there are some who feel trapped. You couldn't provide an example though so why should I provide you with one?

DublinWriter wrote:

Please explain how a couple making €30K pa could even afford just the 1-bed €210 property you mentioned?

I didn't say that you did. As I seem to be able to understand what you are saying and when you are lying or trying to change to point to suit yourself I suggest you talk straight and too the point. You should say you were wrong and have some dignity because anybody reading this already know that your story doesn't add up.

THis tread is about Dublin and people being fed up with the place. You claimed people are forced to work to survive and gave an example. I proved your example showed it was all choice and the people making that choice are responsible. You want to keep talking the cost of living in Dublin I suggest you start another thread. I think you have proved my point about people negatively commenting on Dublin are a big problem. You used a "story" of your friend to say how things were terrible here yet it is not a story of hardship it is a story of a choice to pay off a mortgage in less time than normal.

Shabadu

I'm getting pretty tired of seeing lame pigeons eating pink piles of drunken vomit on the way to work in the morning.

ateam

I'd rather be living in Dublin now than 20 or 30 years ago. There are homeless people but i don't particurlary feel guilty, it's their fault that they are in that position.

muppetkiller

Irish people are just like the rest of Europe we've had it too good for too long and don't appriciate it.
We complain about everything and do nothing about it. We complain about house prices and then spend 100 yoyos a week on Booze.

i lived in Australia for 4 years and as a country it's not perfect but they understand work/life balance and enjoy a very high standard of living for very little expense. They pay higher taxes but have amazing infrastructure.

As for someone mentioning kids begging in the streets ..why are they not at school ! parents should be arrested.People should work for their dole and criminals should be punished not put up in cells with playstations cas they're depressed...

I'm happy out in Ireland , although I've a very positive outlook most days anyway so I don't let the moaners get me down.

Rant over ...breathe in and out

oh and as for you two up there bickering about house prices GET A ROOM !!

DamoKen

muppetkiller wrote:

oh and as for you two up there bickering about house prices GET A ROOM !!

should they rent or buy?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ateam wrote:

I'd rather be living in Dublin now than 20 or 30 years ago. There are homeless people but i don't particurlary feel guilty, it's their fault that they are in that position.

...and there in a nutshell we have the ignorant selfish attitude that typifies Dublin!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

muppetkiller wrote:

As for someone mentioning kids begging in the streets ..why are they not at school ! parents should be arrested.!

Interesting point.. .all I can say is that it was a Sunday (not that that makes much of a differene I know). As for who's to blame, who cares? People still see it as acceptable.

When those guys arguing about house prices, I just thought I'd bring a little perspective to the argument. I wasn't sure anyone would notice and for a few days, no one did.

Again, sums of the selfish ignorant attitude we have in our wonderful modern European attitude.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

muppetkiller wrote:

As for someone mentioning kids begging in the streets ..why are they not at school ! parents should be arrested.!

Interesting point.. .all I can say is that it was a Sunday (not that that makes much of a differene I know). As for who's to blame, who cares? People still see it as acceptable.

When those guys arguing about house prices, I just thought I'd bring a little perspective to the argument. I wasn't sure anyone would notice and for a few days, no one did.

Again, sums of the selfish ignorant attitude we have in our wonderful modern European city.

tj-music.com

muppetkiller wrote:

Irish people are just like the rest of Europe we've had it too good for too long and don't appriciate it.
We complain about everything and do nothing about it. We complain about house prices and then spend 100 yoyos a week on Booze.

i lived in Australia for 4 years and as a country it's not perfect but they understand work/life balance and enjoy a very high standard of living for very little expense. They pay higher taxes but have amazing infrastructure.

As for someone mentioning kids begging in the streets ..why are they not at school ! parents should be arrested.People should work for their dole and criminals should be punished not put up in cells with playstations cas they're depressed...

I'm happy out in Ireland , although I've a very positive outlook most days anyway so I don't let the moaners get me down.

Rant over ...breathe in and out

oh and as for you two up there bickering about house prices GET A ROOM !!

Well said!! Agree 100%

DublinWriter

muppetkiller wrote:

oh and as for you two up there bickering about house prices GET A ROOM !!

Why do you think we've been so quiet lately?

As for those who criticise the homeless, go speak to one someday on your way in to the call centre.

Many come from abusive families and troubled backgrounds. There for the grace of god go we all.

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

Why do you think we've been so quiet lately?

.

I assumed it was becasue you were caught lying and couldn't prove you case so you ran away

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

I assumed it was becasue you were caught lying and couldn't prove you case so you ran away

No, you were boring me to death with your pedantry and evasion.

AngryAnderson

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

...and there in a nutshell we have the ignorant selfish attitude that typifies Dublin!

The one thing I love about this whole Celtic Tiger storm is the state of Irish attitudes. Everyone is selfish these days but me. Everyone is racist these days but me. Blah, blah, blah. We're no more selfish or lazy than we ever were - it just seems that now we're a bunch of self-hating idiots.