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Is anyone else fed up of Dublin?

Opportunist

hi all,

I mean don't get me wrong I generally like Dublin, but all this rat race mullark is getting a bit irritating. I mean everything seems to have got out of hand here in the last few years. Mainly the cost and quality of living. Generally the customer service in shops getting worse and I'm nearly stunned if a shop assistant says 'have a nice day'. Of course there are the odd exceptions, but what the hell has happened to Dublin lately? Now this is gonna sound really petty but a friend of mine got a bagel today & asked for a little bit of extra topping and they charged her nearly a euro extra! I know it's not much, but you'd think they would make a small exception for regular customers. Everything seems to be about getting one up. I used an internet cafe in Inchicore the other day and it was a particular fee for the hour. Quite literally I spent 1 min and 50 seconds on the email as I was only checking something nb and the feicer charged me the hourly fee. This place does my head in...

apologies for rant, anyone had any similar experiences?

Opp

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nlgbbbblth

DublinWriter wrote:

Your maxium mortgage is calculated on 3.5 times your annual salary. So in order to get a mortgage of €350,000 you'd need to be earing €100K a year.

Not so.
The old system of salary multiples (borrowing two and a half times/three times one's salary) is effectively dead. Banks now look at it from the point of DSR (Debt Service Ratio). This should not exceed 40% - i.e. your total commitments (commitments means mortgage and other loans) should not exceed 40% of your total net monthly income. In other words if your net monthly income is €3,000 then you would be considered good for a mortage costing €1,200 p.m. However the bank will "stress-test" this i.e. see what your DSR would be if interest rates went up by 2%. If the DSR comes in around 45% after this you should be ok.

DublinWriter

It's quite easy just to go "ooohhh aren't people working in shops very rude".

I see vast amounts of curtness and abuse being dished out to shop workers on a daily basis. I really would class us *all* as a nation as being pretty rude and selfish, especially in younger females on both sides of the counter (controversial!).

Re the poster in the wheelchair talking about home working - I totally agree. But that culture of 'presentationism' as it's been called is just as prevalent in the UK and US. It's not about working smart, it's about working hard, and more importantly being seen to be working hard.

Another arguement might be that it's interesting that we're having this debate in the first place as to why we aren't 'perfect' and that it could be that old almost genetically ingrained Catholic guilt complex manifesting itself in a post Celtic-tiger way.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One in Dundrum tends to be okay.

nlgbbbblth

Archeron wrote:

Here a good one for you. In a major music store in Liffey Valley (can I name and shame???). After queueing for 25 mins to get to the till, (there were 8 people behind the counter, 2 serving and 6 trying to figure out how to put vouchers thorugh). Get to the till, and this manicly depressed looking bird just looks at me and holds out her hand to take my items. Fair enough, i dont expect pleasantries anymore. The guy on the till next was doing something on the desk, but not actually serving anyone.
Young woman with a child comes over to ask advise as to where a certain DVD boxset is. The guy looks at her, rolls his eyes to heaven, and in the best los angeles spoiled rotten vally girl way says "cant you see I'm BUSEEEE" Woman looked at me to see of he actually said that, and started laughing, gently put her app €100 worth of items on the counter beside him and walked out of the store. This particular store seems to be notorious for this behavior from the staff, and as a result I never go there. I was only there this time because somebody bought me store vouchers for christmas.
Without naming, I bet most people know which store this is anyway.

Virgin.

FranknFurter

All of these people saying "anyone who wants to work can work" and "there are so many jobs employers cant find enough workers to fill them" etc etc,........I'm sorry, I dont see it.

Im a highly qualified, highly experienced, very capable and fully trained, 28 year old born and living in Dublin.
5-10 years ago, I was having very good jobs thrown at me left right and center, I never had to worry about being able to afford food and never did a heating bill "scare" me.

These days, because I cant commute, (Mainly due to the fact that even though so much infrastructure in this city has changed there is still a HUGE lack of wheelchair usable public transport to most suburbs), I am having to look for a job that that will allow me to work from home. I want to work, the only way I can, I want to be productive and live supported financially by what I earn myself.
But because we have now lost our trust in ourselves as decent honest hardworking people (yes, there was a time when the irish thought that of themselves), it seems I cannot.

I have a home office and all the equipment I would ever need to be an asset to many industries, and yet none will employ a "home-worker", despite the obvious positive aspects of employing a home-worker for the company. (You just have to look at productivity statistics).

Why?

Because, I believe, we have inherited all of the bad aspects of other major cities, and largely lost our identity as a pleasant people.
Now we have ended up as a people who are even seen by our OWN employers as "irish= possible slackers who cant be trusted".
Immigrant workforce is seen to be more reliable because they are seen as being a workforce who is "grateful for the job, and therfore work harder" = more reliable apparently.........
It seems to me, in this "now so professional and progressive" country of ours, we still dont trust ourselves.

All the employers who post here, would you hire a person to work from home? It saves you office space, it saves you travel "expenses", it means you get a worker who is happier in their job, more job satisfied (see statistics), an lots more besides.........

No?
Why?

Ireland, and particularly Dublin, needs to look back to when people trusted eachother a bit more, why did we trust eachother that bit more?
Because we were friendlier and got to know who we could trust as an individual.

We have indeed, lost a lot of our ability to "chat" and gained an ability to "be like every other city"........ imho, a tragic loss.

b

fly_agaric

boo4842 wrote:

Now living in Canada the bus stops for you whether you put your hand out or not - just in case. A big change from the full (or empty buses) speeding past you in Dublin, chasing them down and they refuse to open the door.

That sums up the difference in attitude in Dublin to me in a nutshell.

I try and forgive the bad manners/brusqueness on the part of the drivers.

I have seen people stand in front of the bus and gesture at the driver as it pulls away becuase he won't stop and let their precious selves onto the bus.

I have seen both men and women kick the door and heard them roar obsenities and threats when they don't make the bus and the driver won't stop and open the door especially for them.

I have seen people look to be let off while the bus is stopped in traffic and become, shall we say, irate, when the bus driver refuses to do so.

All during the day, in the morning even, and all by people who don't seem (judging by appearences) to be your stereotypical Dublin gougers either. How wrong can you be! The Dublin gougers throw rocks at the bus instead.

boo4842

whizzbang wrote:

I have to agree here. I got 2 buses in the UK last weekend, 1 driver was polite and efficient the other two were polite, efficient and funny to boot! Its a pity some people in Ireland don't take more pride in their work and how they deal with others.

I'll always remember a couple of years ago getting the dublin bus from the airport after a couple weeks in central europe (Denmark, Germany, Switzerland) where you could literally set your watch to them. After waiting a half hour for the bus to come (every 10 mins) we were crammed on the bus like sardines with our suitcase and had to stand in the side door.

We dinged the bell as our stop approched but no response from the bus driver. We dinged again as he sped past our stop, and yelled that we'd like to get off (it was hard to move to tell him) Next stop he keeps going and we have to lug our suitcases through the crowd, as there is some english people explaining to the driver that people want to get off. 3 stops down the road we fianlly get off and say that we've been dinging the bell for 4 stops now, and he responded "that he thought it was just kids messin'"

Now living in Canada the bus stops for you whether you put your hand out or not - just in case. A big change from the full (or empty buses) speeding past you in Dublin, chasing them down and they refuse to open the door.

That sums up the difference in attitude in Dublin to me in a nutshell.

fischerspooner

Yeah my mate lives in Munich I've visited him there before, going again in May. Fantastic beer, friendly people. More of a village feel than Berlin/Hamburg. And of course efficient and excellent transport system. Actually our government sent a "task force" out to munich recently to check out their transport system, we'd never have anything like that here in a million years. There are some jobs in Munich I believe. Und du musst natuerlich gut deutsch sprechen.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Absolutely re: the infrstructure!!! I'm trying to relocate to Germany at the moment, but need to save up a good bit before I go because I'm prepared for unemployment. Not Berlin, though. Looking more at Munich

fischerspooner

I know it does, and I'd move there if I could, just for the experience, but it's almost impossible to get a half-decent job there. Have you ever been in Kaffee Burger, near Rosa Luxembourg Strasse? Man that place is a riot... Hamburg is pretty cool too. One thing I hate about Dublin is that we don't have even one good football team to go and watch every week, or one good soccer stadium, it's a disgrace. We also need a metro ASAP.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fischerspooner wrote:

when did I ever say I was sitting in pubs night after night?? I just said I like the pubs here. Yes Berlin is a great city, but there are no jobs, and it's kind of bleak and depressing, I'd say you'd get fed up there after a while. If you ever go, check out a bar called "King Kong", it's somewhere in the east, one helluva place.

You didn't... When I said 'you' I meant it generally, not personally. But there are a lot of people who do that.

Best bar in Berlin was Techeles, but I may be biased because I'm an artist. but you have to admit: Berlin had variety. Exhibitions, galleries, street theatre...

fischerspooner

when did I ever say I was sitting in pubs night after night?? I just said I like the pubs here. Yes Berlin is a great city, but there are no jobs, and it's kind of bleak and depressing, I'd say you'd get fed up there after a while. If you ever go, check out a bar called "King Kong", it's somewhere in the east, one helluva place.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fischerspooner wrote:

Well everywhere gets boring after a while buddy, that's life. Do you think people who live in the so-called best cities in the world i.e. London, New York, Sydney etc. don't ever get bored with the place? Life is what you make of it, no matter where you are.

yeah, porbbaly ture... but you've listed cities with some of the best varity going! Only ones you missed were Belin, Copenhagen. And apparently Amsterdam, but I've never been...

But if you're sitting in a pub night after night, I could argue that you're not making much of life anyway....? (Not making the point in an accusatory way... just sn idea)

Nightwish

I lived in Edinburgh too, and I found the people there to be the nicest, friendliest people ever. Its kinda hard to meet a friendly Dub cos most people I interact with are bus-drivers who are surly or Shop workers who are usually non-nationals.

fischerspooner

Well everywhere gets boring after a while buddy, that's life. Do you think people who live in the so-called best cities in the world i.e. London, New York, Sydney etc. don't ever get bored with the place? Life is what you make of it, no matter where you are.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fischerspooner wrote:

Variety of what? What do you want from a city? If you want a crap city try a mid wester canadian or american city, then you'll know all about it. People complain about people not being friendly here when they go out... it's your own fault, do you ever try talking to people? No you probably stand there with a scowl on your face all night and ignore people who try and talk to you and then mutter "bleedin' weirdo"... I see it all the time.

Ouch! Little unfair, don't you think, considering I never said people in Dublin weren't friendly...?

And as for sitting at a bar with a scowl on my face... that's boredom. After 15 years of sitting in the same pubs, you get that. Is this the way you react to everyone who decrys your blessed watering holes?

Don't get me wrong... there are pubs I like. But most of them would have me lanbled a freak or a non-conformist and non of them are in Dublin. But once again, seeing as you didn;t bother to read it first time (assuming you read something that I wrote), Dublin needs to be MORE than just pubs.

fischerspooner

Variety of what? What do you want from a city? If you want a crap city try a mid wester canadian or american city, then you'll know all about it. People complain about people not being friendly here when they go out... it's your own fault, do you ever try talking to people? No you probably stand there with a scowl on your face all night and ignore people who try and talk to you and then mutter "bleedin' weirdo"... I see it all the time.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fischerspooner wrote:

it's a class city, I really can't believe the words people are saying about the place. If you don't have a good time when you go out here you wont have a good time anywhere. We have the best pubs in the world as far as I'm concerned. We have a great mix of people. If you want unfriendly stuck up people go to Edinburgh, I used to live there for a while and none of the locals talk to you, or want to talk to you.

I'm not doubting the quality, it's the variety I don't like. After a few years in Dublin everything seems to be been there, done that.

Dublin needs to be more than just the 'best pubs in the world.

fischerspooner

it's a class city, I really can't believe the words people are saying about the place. If you don't have a good time when you go out here you wont have a good time anywhere. We have the best pubs in the world as far as I'm concerned. We have a great mix of people. If you want unfriendly stuck up people go to Edinburgh, I used to live there for a while and none of the locals talk to you, or want to talk to you.

Nightwish

I hate Dublin. I spend at most, 3 days a week there before I have to get out. I cannot wait to finish college and leave it for good. Granted its ok for a days shopping or something but living there is torturous.

Binomate

Funny, one of my mates who was passing through Dublin from Belfast to Limerick last week, who generally despises Dublin was in total admiration of the City when he last came. He said the renovations made such a difference and that Dublin actually has some class to it now since he last visited.

DublinWriter

DamoKen wrote:

mate of mine bought a 2 bed new duplex apartment in Kimmage for 300,000 last year, really nice place. Was this 2 bed place your mate bought on it's own grounds or something? cos for that price a "few" years ago as you say, there would need to be something extra special about it.

The place was a semi-d, not an apartment. Big diff. I guess the main thing about it was that it's in the Terenure Postal district, although for all intents and reasons its actually in Kimmage.

DamoKen wrote:

I take it you haven't bought a home?

I have. My mortgage was with First Active and they were pretty strict about letting me have 3.5 times my annual salary max.

DamoKen wrote:

that both of them would want to be earning over 50,000 each, which is well over the average wage. So are you saying that only people earning above the average are buying houses?

You forget that a lot of parents are stumping up equity for their 'kids' to buy houses. A vast number of parents even re-mortgage their own property to these ends.

DamoKen

DublinWriter wrote:

Because houses there were going for 350,000 at the time.

mate of mine bought a 2 bed new duplex apartment in Kimmage for 300,000 last year, really nice place. Was this 2 bed place your mate bought on it's own grounds or something? cos for that price a "few" years ago as you say, there would need to be something extra special about it.

DublinWriter wrote:

Because they took out a 300K Mortgage. You do the maths.

30 year mortgage @3.6% = 1363.94 per month
20 year mortgaga @3.6% = 1755.33 per month
10 year mortgage @3.6% = 2980.65 per month which is around what you said. Why would anyone take a mortgage over 10 years if they can't afford it?

DublinWriter wrote:

Because when you walk into a bank/building society and say "please may I have a mortgage?" they'll ask you "how much do you earn a year?" and you'll say "X" and they'll say "we can offer you a mortage of X times 3.5".

That's the way it works and these are the guidelines set out by the Central Bank. Financial instituations did get a bit cheeky in the late 90's by giving out more, but they were soon slapped on the wrist by the Central Bank.

I take it you haven't bought a home? Ask anyone who has over the last 8 years and you will see how wrong you are. By your line of reasoning and taking into account the average house price now, say 300,000 plus which is conservative, that would mean assuming it is a couple (and a significant number of buyers are single), that both of them would want to be earning over 50,000 each, which is well over the average wage. So are you saying that only people earning above the average are buying houses?

DublinWriter wrote:

The house is now valued at 550K. .... Tell me what other investment vehicle would have given them that kind of profit in two years?

I would only consider that profit if they were planning to move outside of the country, or Dublin at the least to somewhere cheaper. When your house increases in value what does it really matter when the house you'd like to move to has also increased, probably by more as people tend to move up not down. I bought my home 3 years ago and in that time it's value has increase by 155,000. Do I consider myself 155,000 better off? damn straight I do, but then I am planning to sell up and get out of here before the whole sh*thouse comes tumbling down (another story)

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

Because houses there were going for 350,000 at the time.

Name the year becasue that is a huge amount for what you described. THey could have got more for their money or bought the same for less.

DublinWriter wrote:

Because they took out a 300K Mortgage. You do the maths.

I did and the amount you have said their monthly payment don't add up unless they have a very short term. Did they take out a 10 year mortgage?

DublinWriter wrote:

Because when you walk into a bank/building society and say "please may I have a mortgage?" they'll ask you "how much do you earn a year?" and you'll say "X" and they'll say "we can offer you a mortage of X times 3.5".

Well name the year again becasue they haven't done it like that for years.

DublinWriter wrote:

That's the way it works and these are the guidelines set out by the Central Bank. Financial instituations did get a bit cheeky in the late 90's by giving out more, but they were soon slapped on the wrist by the Central Bank.

Guideline aren't rules and you said a few years ago so that was still the 90s.

DublinWriter wrote:

No, when you apply for a Mortage as a couple they let you have a maximum mortgage amount 3.5 times the higher of the two salaries *plus* 1.5 times the lesser salary.

AS I said that is not how they have done it for years

DublinWriter wrote:

THATS WHY BOTH PARENTS NEEED TO WORK!

Capice now?

I understand that you like to think yourself a writer and make up stories.

DublinWriter wrote:

My friend recently had to get the property valued as he's looking at getting an extension with another kid on the way.

The house is now valued at 550K. They could sell up now and make 200K profit before Capital Gains Tax. Tell me what other investment vehicle would have given them that kind of profit in two years?

Again you don't know what you are talking about you don't pay CGT on your home.

DublinWriter wrote:

If they had rented, they'd have spent roughly 35K in the past two years and would have had nothing to show for it.

THey would be living a better quality of life which is the important thing according to you. It is a choice where by one of them would not have to work saving about 1.5k a month . This is a choice, their choice and they have chosen to buy a house and work two jobs so they can own a house. You want to blame somebody for their situation it is them.

What you have said is so unlikely either you misunderstand your firends situation, they are lying to you or you have made up this.

Tell me how many years their mortgage is?
What year they bought?

This is a house in Kimmage on sale now
http://www2.myhome.ie/search/property.asp?id=264773&np=&rt=search&searchlist=

klash

I travel alot and without a doubt Ireland is the absolute worst for this type of crap and Dublin is by far the worst here.

Its not even rudeness etc its that they simply don't care.

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

Where are you living? THis sounds like pure fiction. First off a few years ago they paid how much for Kimmage? Why pay so much?

Because houses there were going for 350,000 at the time.

MorningStar wrote:

Next why is their mortgage so high?

Because they took out a 300K Mortgage. You do the maths.

MorningStar wrote:

Next since when have you only been able to get 3.5 time of your wages in Ireland?

Because when you walk into a bank/building society and say "please may I have a mortgage?" they'll ask you "how much do you earn a year?" and you'll say "X" and they'll say "we can offer you a mortage of X times 3.5".

That's the way it works and these are the guidelines set out by the Central Bank. Financial instituations did get a bit cheeky in the late 90's by giving out more, but they were soon slapped on the wrist by the Central Bank.

MorningStar wrote:

Your mate was making €100k a year with his wife then? Their mortgage would be a small portion of their wages

No, when you apply for a Mortage as a couple they let you have a maximum mortgage amount 3.5 times the higher of the two salaries *plus* 1.5 times the lesser salary.

THATS WHY BOTH PARENTS NEEED TO WORK!

Capice now?

MorningStar wrote:

They would be better off renting and if they don't know that then they have a problem with understanding that is a bad choice. Thier choice to pay too much for their house when they could live better renting with less maintenace. As their friend you should tell them they could live a better quality of life by renting.

My friend recently had to get the property valued as he's looking at getting an extension with another kid on the way.

The house is now valued at 550K. They could sell up now and make 200K profit before Capital Gains Tax. Tell me what other investment vehicle would have given them that kind of profit in two years?

If they had rented, they'd have spent roughly 35K in the past two years and would have had nothing to show for it.

Victor McDade

I'm not trying to change your opinion of Dublin. If you like it, good for you. I know a number of people that hate Cork, whereas I quite like it. So if there was a thread about cork being bad, I wouldn't tell people to leave. If they want to comment about the city, its no skin off my back. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

wrong choice of words, i should have said "you have the option to leave"
Point taken

MorningStar

DublinWriter wrote:

I'm talking about both parents having to work just to afford the basics.

A mate of mine has one young kid, his wife has another on the way. They live in a 2-bed in Kimmage that they bought a few years ago for €350K.

He normally cycles to work, she drives. They both need to work to afford to pay the €2,800 monthly mortgage payment.

Your arguement about both partners having to work just to afford luxeries and 4x4's is just so much phish.

Your maxium mortgage is calculated on 3.5 times your annual salary. So in order to get a mortgage of €350,000 you'd need to be earing €100K a year. That really isn't very practical for most couples is it morningstar?

Where are you living? THis sounds like pure fiction. First off a few years ago they paid how much for Kimmage? Why pay so much? Next why is their mortgage so high? Next since when have you only been able to get 3.5 time of your wages in Ireland? Your mate was making €100k a year with his wife then? Their mortgage would be a small portion of their wages
They would be better off renting and if they don't know that then they have a problem with understanding that is a bad choice. Thier choice to pay too much for their house when they could live better renting with less maintenace. As their friend you should tell them they could live a better quality of life by renting.

DublinWriter

MorningStar wrote:

If you have a house with more rooms than you need and two cars that use huge amount of fuel and have to work two jobs to fund that it is your choice. There is no way everybody living like this is forced to live like this they chose to do it.

I'm talking about both parents having to work just to afford the basics.

A mate of mine has one young kid, his wife has another on the way. They live in a 2-bed in Kimmage that they bought a few years ago for €350K.

He normally cycles to work, she drives. They both need to work to afford to pay the €2,800 monthly mortgage payment.

Your arguement about both partners having to work just to afford luxeries and 4x4's is just so much phish.

Your maxium mortgage is calculated on 3.5 times your annual salary. So in order to get a mortgage of €350,000 you'd need to be earing €100K a year. That really isn't very practical for most couples is it morningstar?

Archeron

MorningStar wrote:

Manners are a set of rules, rules are authority get the idea. Tell somebody they are rude on the street and they blow up.

You people are so mad you aren't listening to what I am saying. I have told you how I suggest you deal with rude staff. I highlighted to help I suggest you read it again.

I have stated a course of action to address the problem. What are you saying Archeron?

The truth is the staff are reacting to how they are treated it is that simple. Everybody reacts to how they are treated. You are so mad that you keep thinking I am saying it is not true that people are ruder. I have said everybody is ruder. What do you want me to say? Tell me because you don't like the idea tha I agree. I don't agree that we are ruder than any other western city. I think we moan about it more than any other city and put ourselves down and won't do our part to correct it.

Manners are far from a set of rules. They are not enforced, they are not even acknowledged by many people, so that is hardly an emample of authority. If people wish to observe whats generally accepted as manners they will, no authority involved whatsoever.
What I am saying is simply that the mannerisms and attidutes of people in Ireland has changed significantly in recent years, be that the advent of wealth or whatever other reason we wish to blame. You say we are so mad we arent listening to you? Where do you get this idea? I am not mad, I am far from mad. I am solidly cynical and in most cases where bad attitudes are encountered, I respond with a cold and sarcastic smile. I am not mad, I am merely pointing out my point of view. You state a course of action, but that in no way guarantees the problem being addressed. Yes, we can complain, yes we can politely point out the right and wrong way we think things should be done. Will anything happen as a result? Probably not. I've experienced this firthand on numberous occcasions.
The fact of staff responding to the way they are treated is untrue in my opinion. As I have always been involved in interaction with clients (across the world) I have always got the utmost respect for people, but that does not always work both ways, and that is what people are pointing out in this thread. If people are reacting to the way they are treated then this the most viscious circle I've encountered and i reckon within 10 years we'll be going shopping armed with baseball bats and golf clubs.
I disagree that we moan more than most people to be frank. In fact, i think we dont complain enough, and thats whats led us to be receiving this ****ty service in the first place. People have goteen away with treating each other mildly badly, so now its quite badly. If they keep getting away with that, then it will be really badly.
Also, TBH, the whole conversation of economics, employment levels, global crime etc is irrelevant to this thread, as this is about how IRISH people have changed over time. Simply stating an opinion, I dont hate Dublin, I dont hate Ireland, but I do think that too many people think its perfectly okay to treat each other like dirt.