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N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd




  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭thedarkroom


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    I agree, but I'm not talking about the need for the scheme, I'm talking about its poor alignment. I think its actually two projects amalgamated, and the old part has obviously not been revised. That's what our planning system precludes - common sense and flexibility. Not a blade of grass has been touched yet, and they've already made a meal of it... :rolleyes:

    I'm sure a lot of political pressure might be involved too. It would be interesting to see what tracks of land were rezoned in the last published development plans and how they might overlap any of the proposed routes. If land is rezoned from agricultural to development then the value soars. This happened in Gorey when the current by-pass was at proposal stage and some people made a lot more money out of it due to re-zoning.
    This could be a factor here too in deciding the final route.
    As regards legal challenges, while I don't know what case was put forward as to why the scheme should be stopped, I sometimes think that some people have too much time on their hands. I also thing that the question of funding these challenges should be revisited. Sweetman will probably not have to pay for this on the grounds that he was acting in the public interest and therefore would have his costs covered by the state (us).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Not technically N11 but they are sticking a new roundabout here at the junction of the N25/R740
    Maybe an online (where possible) upgrade to D2AP to Rosslare smile.gif

    Plan is 2+2 from the end of the Enniscorthy Bypass to Rosslare

    http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/

    Edit: Project status document here


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    How much freight & passenger traffic is Rosslare getting these days anyway? particularly in comparison to the State's other ports located in or near urban areas? seems to me the idea of building & maintaining connections to Rosslare by Motorway & Rail is a product of 20 Century Shannon style thinking.

    _ 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
    Ship Visits 2,376 2,338 2,208 2,146 2,184 1,981 2,077 2,005 2,010 2,017 1,990
    Total passenger vehicles 363,031 370,126 320,685 338,180 321,535 310,507 283,834 282,289 324,998 307,059 293,707
    Total passengers 1,389,207 1,344,881 1,228,454 1,261,447 1,174,672 1,107,972 1,021,814 1,002,526 1,074,902 1,000,319 946,623
    Total freight 100,688 104,171 107,507 107,571 112,370 126,350 137,482 156,515 167,968 156,461 133,508
    Trade vehicles 50,295 68,594 54,717 48,319 30,179 34,863 31,536 29,102 25,739 17,116 8,243



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    Interestingly the E30 is a main route (Cork-Rosslare), part of Oylgate - Rosslare would be the E30

    Some interesting stuff there
    eg

    Design speed (km/h) 60 80 100 120 140
    Minimum radii in plane* 120 240 450 650 1000


    *(corresponding to
    maximum superelevation 7%)

    I wonder ho3w tight is a radius of 650 metres :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    Sponge Bob wrote: »

    See list of signatories and jump to Annex 2 for a shufty. But as the road does not carry over 600 vehicles an hour....even whan the ferry arrives.

    2007 figures here http://www.wexford.ie/ConstraintsStudy/Constraints%20Study%20Rev%20B/Constraints%20Study%20Report%20Part%20A%20Rev%20B.pdf

    ADT
    Oilgate- Wexford about 17k

    Wexford Town By pass about the same (1 section has 18k )

    Drops down to about 8k at Kilrane!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    jd wrote: »
    2007 figures here http://www.wexford.ie/ConstraintsStudy/Constraints%20Study%20Rev%20B/Constraints%20Study%20Report%20Part%20A%20Rev%20B.pdf

    ADT
    Oilgate- Wexford about 17k

    Wexford Town By pass about the same (1 section has 18k )


    Busier than I thought to the north TBH , had seen the counter data near Rosslare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Rosslare has slowly declined in importance over the past 20 years. Only 1000 vehicles a day used it (through) in 1999 and that is now 800 vehicles a day.

    A couple of 2+2 online passing stretches between Rosslare and Oilgate would suffice in my opinion.

    Anyway the Rosslare - Oilgate scheme is one of the 90+ schemes the greens have kyboshed in the October programme for government not that any Wexford FFer will admit that.

    Did you manage to get a list of those 90+ schemes Bob??


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Did you manage to get a list of those 90+ schemes Bob??

    Nope , I asked O Brolcháin and he never sent them on...anybody know a green around here


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    123easy wrote: »
    Had a look at the M11 Enniscorthy PPP scheme, surely there are other parts of the country more deserving of a bypass than Ennisocrthy is of a motorway.

    As it is a PPP I reckon "commercially attractive" is more important than "deserving". :cool:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    The local papers report that there are 8 possible routes outlined for Oylegate - Rosslare. Two of them to the west of the Forth Mountain, and two through the heritage park at Ferrycarrig! There is a leaflet available with these routes from Wexford Co Co, I'll scan and post when I get a copy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    jd wrote: »
    The local papers report that there are 8 possible routes outlined for Oylegate - Rosslare. Two of them to the west of the Forth Mountain, and two through the heritage park at Ferrycarrig! There is a leaflet available with these routes from Wexford Co Co, I'll scan and post when I get a copy.

    Map here:

    http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/Thefile,15162,en.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    Thanks Nordy. Anyone have any thoughts on the proposed routes? Its fairly apparent why the Enniscorthy By pass would end north of Oylegate, the same range of possible routes wouldn't be available


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I dont know much about this project, is it going to be duel carriageway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Your welcome freestater.

    I'd say 2+2 is the most likely cross-section.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    Should be DC, doubtful whether it should be motorway. Moot anyway, won't be built for the foreseeable future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    It would be fairly pointless if they didn't make it at least 2+2. South of Oilgate there isn't that much to bypass so there's no point in building a single lane road, we might as well keep the existing one.

    Looking at the options I would rule out Route G and Route H fairly quickly as they seem to cross the N25 way out from Wexford so a junction for the town here would really still leave you quite a distance from it. Not the best idea if you ask me.

    The problem with Route A and Route B is that they seem to follow the current N11/N25 for almost the whole way. I assume these then would be just upgrades of that road, in which case the road could never be upgraded to motorway because we'd have no alternative route. Route D also seems to follow the N25 south of Wexford so again if this was just an upgrade I don't think it would be preferable.

    Route F seems to be quite a twisty option so I'd rule that one out. That leaves Route C or Route E and I think either of them would be acceptable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    Advantage of Route C is is that is is that little bit further out from Wexford town. The town has grown out as far as the current by-pass in places, and that increases the local traffic using it to get from one part of town to the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭jd


    This scheme also includes a realignment of the N25 from Larkins Cross going north of Barntown

    117478.jpg


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Does that mean that what will be the very last Mother Hubbards left on an N road gets bypassed too? They've not been very lucky with that so far!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    More information here on Wicklow County Council website


    Includes an interesting study here. The option for the link road between Kilmacanogue and the Bray Southern Cross Route is particularly interesting. I calculate it at 1.5km long, and it would sort out that garage and the remaining at grade private accesses southbound on the N11.


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭gym_mom


    Well route H goes straight through my garden so if anyone has any knowledge of any reasons why that's not a good route please post here. We need all the amunition we can get. God, you build in the country to get away from all the noise, fumes, traffic and then wham someone throws a granade like this at you. To say we're shocked is an understatement.:eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,378 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    nordydan wrote: »
    More information here on Wicklow County Council website


    Includes an interesting study here. The option for the link road between Kilmacanogue and the Bray Southern Cross Route is particularly interesting. I calculate it at 1.5km long, and it would sort out that garage and the remaining at grade private accesses southbound on the N11.
    I'm flabbergasted. What on earth are they thinking about replacing the two roundabouts at the Killarney Rd. junction with traffic lights!? How will that improve things?

    EDIT: after reading the report it seems there'll be all kinds of traffic movement detectors and clever algorithms let loose on the traffic light system to ensure that tailbacks are kept to a minimum. I'll believe it when I see it TBH.

    Also, while I'm not against improving the length of various merge lanes on that stretch, maybe educating Irish drivers in proper merging techniques might deliver more results in the long run. The number of idiots attempting to merge at speeds of 50km/h or less, accompanied by frenzied braking from the inside lane who seem afraid to travel at anything over 80km/h is what causes most of the problems there IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,836 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    gym_mom wrote: »
    Well route H goes straight through my garden so if anyone has any knowledge of any reasons why that's not a good route please post here. We need all the amunition we can get.

    Sure, anything to help a NIMBY out.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    This here forum is generally not for NIMBYs ...and as for BANANAs :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    gym_mom wrote: »
    Well route H goes straight through my garden so if anyone has any knowledge of any reasons why that's not a good route please post here. We need all the amunition we can get. God, you build in the country to get away from all the noise, fumes, traffic and then wham someone throws a granade like this at you. To say we're shocked is an understatement.:eek:
    Stark wrote: »
    Sure, anything to help a NIMBY out.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    This here forum is generally not for NIMBYs ...and as for BANANAs :(

    This forum is for anyone who wants to participate. I can certainly understand the shock at being told a motorway is to be built outside your front door - after all, the M8 is just 200m from my front door in Tipp. All I would say to you, gym_mom, is to get involved with the designers, and ask for mitigation works to be put in place. Get them to place bunds are scores of trees in place between your house and the M11. You can't stop it, so you need to work with the designers constructively to ensure the motorway affects your household as little as possible. Demand additional planting, get those bunds in place, and don't be too recalcitrant. Work with the design team, not against them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Or else work with everyone on THAT route to prove ANOTHER route is better..and why.

    Going to local meeting rantathons is the worst way to do this as I know from seeing them in action. The group should have a civil engineer onboard.

    Mitigation occurs after route selection not before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭gym_mom


    Just to clarify the motorway isn't going to be built outside my front door. The proposed route would mean the loss of my home that I have lived in for many years and am very happy in. They will have to knock the house and we would have to go elsewhere. So I make no apology for being upset, shocked and horrified at the possibility of losing the home I love in place of a road that is not even necessary given the good state of the current N11 from Enniscorthy to Rosslare.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Or else work with everyone on THAT route to prove ANOTHER route is better..and why.

    Going to local meeting rantathons is the worst way to do this as I know from seeing them in action. The group should have a civil engineer onboard.

    Mitigation occurs after route selection not before.

    Agreed. Assuming the route is ultimately selected and it runs through her lawn, then she needs to influence the design to ensure maximum mitigation.

    If they are to organise a meeting against a certain route, better reasons need to be offered than "I don't want it in my back yard". That won't fly!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    gym_mom wrote: »
    Just to clarify the motorway isn't going to be built outside my front door. The proposed route would mean the loss of my home that I have lived in for many years and am very happy in. They will have to knock the house and we would have to go elsewhere. So I make no apology for being upset, shocked and horrified at the possibility of losing the home I love in place of a road that is not even necessary given the good state of the current N11 from Enniscorthy to Rosslare.

    I can empathise. At an individual level, it is a horrifying prospect. You are unlucky. But again, being rational about it, that won't be enough to stop the road being built. In general, the amount of houses having to be knocked to make way for motorways is pretty small, all things considered; routes are chosen to avoid as many houses as possible.


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