Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Options
1…8586889091…169

Comments

  • Options
    #2612
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    tharlear wrote: »
    Are you suggesting we stop the city from expanding.
    There is not necessarily any connection between the population of the city increasing and the provision of more roads. If you provide more roads, all the extra population will drive everywhere.
    If you don't they'll use other modes. There are many modes of transport but car-dependent people don't think about them or won't use them. This isn't justifiable as expecting to be able to drive everywhere exacts a huge environmental and social toll.


  • Options
    #2613
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    ARUP are, but its not just them. The GTU will share the €€€ with other consultancy groups as well.
    If they were to do even half of what you say then I would be far more in favor of the scheme - however both Councils past records are extremely poor.

    The difference this time is there is an acknowledgement by all involved that a serious level of change is required.

    Galway will get one shot at transformation. There won't be another bypass.

    The simple fact is that Galway city centre must become as close to car-free as possible otherwise the city will stagnate on choking traffic


  • Options
    #2614
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    tharlear wrote: »
    I totally agree that the bypass in isolation won't solve much - it'll simply create a expressway to encourage further sprawl and will be overcrowded in 20 years time

    Are you suggesting we stop the city from expanding.
    The first go round was to deliver a bypass 12 years ago, and some "fruitcakes" stopped it.
    Snails, bog cotton, special limestone, it's a joke.

    This N6 scheme has been specifically designed to avoid these kind of objections - hopefully it'll get through this time.
    spacetweek wrote: »
    There is not necessarily any connection between the population of the city increasing and the provision of more roads. If you provide more roads, all the extra population will drive everywhere.
    If you don't they'll use other modes. There are many modes of transport but car-dependent people don't think about them or won't use them. This isn't justifiable as expecting to be able to drive everywhere exacts a huge environmental and social toll.

    That's very true - but the primary issues at the minute are:

    1. The roadspace in Galway is chronically stretched due to the lack of roadspace at present, let alone into the future
    2. The lack of Corrib crossings, means several bottlenecks and also no route for long distance east/west traffic.
    3. The lack of available roadspace for serious conversion into a multi modal corridor

    Building the N6 scheme will mean there is a fully segregated bypass of Galway, similar to the M50/N40/M7-N18/N25/N6 (Athlone) already seen elsewhere.

    The existing N6 relief road amongst others can then have space reallocated for public transport and cyclists/pedestrian movements.


  • Options
    #2615
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    marno21 wrote: »
    Building the N6 scheme will mean there is a fully segregated bypass of Galway, similar to the M50/N40/M7-N18/N25/N6 (Athlone) already seen elsewhere.

    The existing N6 relief road amongst others can then have space reallocated for public transport and cyclists/pedestrian movements.

    That's the €700,000,000 question, where else has this occurred in the Rep of Ireland?


  • Options
    #2616
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The difference this time is there is an acknowledgement by all involved that a serious level of change is required.

    Galway will get one shot at transformation. There won't be another bypass.

    The simple fact is that Galway city centre must become as close to car-free as possible otherwise the city will stagnate on choking traffic

    Acknowledgement YES, but when is the serious change going to come?
    City Council could not even organise a Car free road closure day in 2017 in Galway City for 5 hours 11h00->16h00 on Eglinton Street, Williamsgate Street and Forster Street
    http://connachttribune.ie/car-free-streets-a-traffic-shock-for-drivers-211/

    Building City Expressway is going to take 8-10years; city already choking with Car traffic


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2617
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Acknowledgement YES, but when is the serious change going to come?
    City Council could not even organise a Car free road closure day in 2017 in Galway City for 5 hours 11h00->16h00 on Eglinton Street, Williamsgate Street and Forster Street
    http://connachttribune.ie/car-free-streets-a-traffic-shock-for-drivers-211/

    Building City Expressway is going to take 8-10years; city already choking with Car traffic

    You're not wrong however they are doing what they can with the coming provision of P&R's, removing the RAB's, tinkering with the network flow e.g Moneennagisha junction, expanding the bike rental scheme, increasing the frequency of some bus routes etc

    Here's one I'll throw back to you, how possible is it to expand the current QBC network given the volume of cars on the city roads. Far as I can see, its not possible.

    The majority of serious, long term changes to the transport network in Galway city will not be possible until the bypass removes a good chunk of commuter traffic. There is simply nowhere else to put them


  • Options
    #2618
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Acknowledgement YES, but when is the serious change going to come?
    City Council could not even organise a Car free road closure day in 2017 in Galway City for 5 hours 11h00->16h00 on Eglinton Street, Williamsgate Street and Forster Street
    http://connachttribune.ie/car-free-streets-a-traffic-shock-for-drivers-211/

    Building City Expressway is going to take 8-10years; city already choking with Car traffic
    This "Car Free Day" thing is stupid and negative!

    Why not "Transport Awareness Day"?
    Now, that's a lot more positive!


  • Options
    #2619
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,776 ✭✭✭SeanW


    what_traffic wrote: »
    That's the €700,000,000 question, where else has this occurred in the Rep of Ireland?
    Dublin? The quays used not to have bus lanes on them until the Port Tunnel was commissioned. The commissioning of the Port Tunnel freed up the quays from truck traffic, part of the capacity of which was then committed to public transport. There has also been a large scale withdrawal of road space from cars to accommodate bus gates (College Green), Luas construction etc.

    It has been totally inadequate, I can tell you from the coalface that the bus setup in Dublin is grinding to halt because of how much time the buses have to spend waiting at stoplights and stuck in traffic with other buses, with the College Green/Dolier/Westmoreland mess alone adding up to half an hour to morning and evening commutes. Blaming motorists isn't accomplishing anything in Dublin, the city needs the Metro and the Dart Underground and more Luas at a bare minimum. Blaming motorists won't accomplish much in Galway either.
    what_traffic wrote: »
    Acknowledgement YES, but when is the serious change going to come?
    City Council could not even organise a Car free road closure day in 2017 in Galway City for 5 hours 11h00->16h00 on Eglinton Street, Williamsgate Street and Forster Street
    http://connachttribune.ie/car-free-streets-a-traffic-shock-for-drivers-211/
    Maybe that's because the local people and others needed their cars? Or because the businesses (you know, the ones who pay enormous amounts of rates) needed customers?
    Building City Expressway is going to take 8-10years; city already choking with Car traffic
    So would building a tramway. Or indeed anything that would be effective.

    Fact. You cannot get by car from the East of the country to Barna, Spiddal etc without going through Galway city streets. That will cause a problem, no matter what you else you do, and it will continue to cause problems in the City until it is fixed.


  • Options
    #2620
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Middle Man wrote: »
    This "Car Free Day" thing is stupid and negative!

    Why not "Transport Awareness Day"?
    Now, that's a lot more positive!

    Ya its not a bad suggestion, more carrot than stick is sometimes needed as well.


  • Options
    #2621
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Here's one I'll throw back to you, how possible is it to expand the current QBC network given the volume of cars on the city roads. Far as I can see, its not possible.
    Agree if you are just thinking along lines of Bus Lanes, but we could start bringing in restrictions to Private Motor Cars of using the Medieval core as a through traffic route.
    Use the Bridges in the City. Start with O Briens and Salmon Weir. Cannot cross them unless you are a bus, taxi, motorbike or pedal bike. Can do the same for College Road on the East side of the City.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2622
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The majority of serious, long term changes to the transport network in Galway city will not be possible until the bypass removes a good chunk of commuter traffic. There is simply nowhere else to put them

    What plans show this change in mindset post City Expressway though?
    Did it happen in Limerick City after the Shannon tunnel was built?


  • Options
    #2623
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    what_traffic wrote: »
    What plans show this change in mindset post City Expressway though?
    Did it happen in Limerick City after the Shannon tunnel was built?

    Happening soon in Limerick with the O'Connell Street project.


  • Options
    #2624
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Happening soon in Limerick with the O'Connell Street project.

    So it will be done in about 2020? a decade after the Shannon Tunnel was opened in 2010.


  • Options
    #2625
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Limerick city streets are still a thoroughfare for traffic from the north of the city.

    The tunnel toll also increases traffic in the ciry


  • Options
    #2626
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    marno21 wrote: »
    Limerick city streets are still a thoroughfare for traffic from the north of the city.

    The tunnel toll also increases traffic in the city

    So how will Galway City differ when the City Expressway is built. Because no toll will exist? That is not credible. All that will happen is creation of induced demand if no concrete steps are carried out in the City Centre to eliminate through traffic. Or do we have to wait till 2040 a decade after the City Expressway is built to see that plan? Like Limerick City where it has taken a decade after the tunnel was built.


  • Options
    #2627
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    what_traffic wrote: »
    So how will Galway City differ when the City Expressway is built. Because no toll will exist? That is not credible. All that will happen is creation of induced demand if no concrete steps are carried out in the City Centre to eliminate through traffic. Or do we have to wait till 2040 a decade after the City Expressway is built to see that plan? Like Limerick City where it has taken a decade after the tunnel was built.

    There is no major road into Galway that won't interact with the new Ring Road. There are such roads in Limerick (R463/464)


  • Options
    #2628
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,847 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    what_traffic wrote: »
    So how will Galway City differ when the City Expressway is built. Because no toll will exist? That is not credible. All that will happen is creation of induced demand if no concrete steps are carried out in the City Centre to eliminate through traffic. Or do we have to wait till 2040 a decade after the City Expressway is built to see that plan? Like Limerick City where it has taken a decade after the tunnel was built.

    The tunnel hasn't taken all traffic out of Limerick. It's part of the Southern bypass of the city. Traffic From the North of the city still has to use the city center. For that reason a Northern Ring Road is being planned. You can't really compare Limerick to Galway for simple geographical reasons.


  • Options
    #2629
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    spacetweek wrote: »
    There is not necessarily any connection between the population of the city increasing and the provision of more roads. If you provide more roads, all the extra population will drive everywhere.
    If you don't they'll use other modes. There are many modes of transport but car-dependent people don't think about them or won't use them. This isn't justifiable as expecting to be able to drive everywhere exacts a huge environmental and social toll.

    I don’t think this is true at all. Galway lacks road density at its core but has roads flying everywhere in its outskirts. There are basically only 2 roads to access the city centre from the east. It’s a disaster of a situation.


  • Options
    #2630
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    The tunnel hasn't taken all traffic out of Limerick. It's part of the Southern bypass of the city. Traffic From the North of the city still has to use the city center. For that reason a Northern Ring Road is being planned. You can't really compare Limerick to Galway for simple geographical reasons.

    Haven’t heard anything anout a North Ring Road in Limerick.


  • Options
    #2631
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Haven’t heard anything anout a North Ring Road in Limerick.

    Limerick Northern Distributor Road, thread in the Limerick forum


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2632
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    What plans show this change in mindset post City Expressway though?

    See attached


  • Options
    #2633
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    What plans show this change in mindset post City Expressway though?
    Did it happen in Limerick City after the Shannon tunnel was built?

    See here https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.galway.ie/en/media/GTS%2520Programme.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjmsuqv9-vZAhWLAMAKHXGrCLkQFjACegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1ffLCYFzPJ2BTDbEDejxvD


  • Options
    #2634
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Agree if you are just thinking along lines of Bus Lanes, but we could start bringing in restrictions to Private Motor Cars of using the Medieval core as a through traffic route.
    Use the Bridges in the City. Start with O Briens and Salmon Weir. Cannot cross them unless you are a bus, taxi, motorbike or pedal bike. Can do the same for College Road on the East side of the City.

    Sure, absolutely, but where does the commuter traffic go to then from those bridges.

    Keep in mind, these bridges are carrying an obscene volume of daily traffic.

    Until you can divert that traffic somewhere else, you can't close those bridges

    The point is, no one single action will fix the situation in Galway. There needs to be 10-15 actions taken but the majority cannot be done until some capacity is freed up.


  • Options
    #2635
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sure, absolutely, but where does the commuter traffic go to then from those bridges.

    Keep in mind, these bridges are carrying an obscene volume of daily traffic.

    Until you can divert that traffic somewhere else, you can't close those bridges
    Why are we allowing commuter traffic to use City Centre as a through traffic route? The Medevil City centre should the destination.
    O Briens Bridge does not carry obscene volume of CAR traffic, what we need to make the bridges more efficient in the volume of people traffic that they could transport across them.
    We need to convert - not divert.


  • Options
    #2636
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There needs to be 10-15 actions taken but the majority cannot be done until some capacity is freed up.

    So wait another 10 years? I disagree - need to start converting people into other modes right now.


  • Options
    #2637
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    The tunnel hasn't taken all traffic out of Limerick. It's part of the Southern bypass of the city. Traffic From the North of the city still has to use the city center. For that reason a Northern Ring Road is being planned. You can't really compare Limerick to Galway for simple geographical reasons.

    Its not a geographical comparison, the point I am making is what ROAD space was converted in Limerick City to other more far more efficient transport uses once the Motorway and Tunnel were built. SFA is the answer.


  • Options
    #2638
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,847 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Its not a geographical comparison, the point I am making is what ROAD space was converted in Limerick City to other more far more efficient transport uses once the Motorway and Tunnel were built. SFA is the answer.

    There are new bus lanes in Limerick that didn't exist before the tunnel opened. But the tunnel didn't take the all traffic out of the city center. It only took some of it. Traffic from the North of the city still uses the city center. And there's quite a lot of it.


  • Options
    #2639
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    what_traffic wrote: »
    So wait another 10 years? I disagree - need to start converting people into other modes right now.

    Which modes do you propose?

    Example 1 - BE have stated they can increase some bus routes frequency a small amount however where no bus lanes are present they are reluctant to do so as they simply cannot provide a reliable service. the 409 route has clearly shown that where a regular, high frequency service is implemented, people will flock to it

    Example 2 - Park and rides - The council are looking at 2 locations as far as I can recall, to implement new P&R's with high frequency buses however they wont be rushing to create these due to reason pointed out in #1 above otherwise it will be an abject failure a lá Carnmore P&R which failed as there was little point in parking your car, just to be stuck in a bus in the same traffic. It made more sense to stay in your car

    On a side, note, I fully agree with your main point of reducing commuter car traffic in the city center see here and here and here

    You'll note in each of the above, its only 1 part of the solution though. I've laid out, fully, what I think is needed in this post, quoted below
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Build the bypass, the day it opens, complete the following

    1. convert 1 lane each way over the Quincential (sp) for bus lanes

    2. Pedestrianise several more city centre streets

    3. Huge expansion of bike share scheme to all suburbs

    4. Cycle lanes, cycle lanes, cycle lanes

    5. Establish 2, permanent, park and rides, 1 on each side of the city, to run from 7am to 11pm

    6. Implementation of high frequency bus timetables

    7. I'm not sure on the way to implement it, but an additional charge/levy applied to each use of paid parking spaces. Can be 50 cents. Doesn't need to be any more than that. This is then used to fund further expansion of all of the above into the future. This is to be applied by the council against all parking providers. Where the council provides City parking, it should increase in price by 50%

    Basically, once the bypass is built, the thoughts of driving a personal car into the city centre should put anyone into a cold sweat.

    I'm not saying ban cars from the city centre, but it should become a rare occurrence to *want/need* to drive in rather than just the norm.

    There should be enough alternatives to make them the normal, first choice, for everyone.

    It should be noted that only #'s 3, 5 & 7 are possible without the bypass whereas #'s 1, 2, 4 & 6 are likely to have the greatest impact to commuter habits but cannot be fully implemented until the volume of traffic is reduced.

    On a side note, this discussion may be more appropriate in the "Solving Galways Major Transport Issues" thread. I just don't want to derail this thread, even though there is a lot of good discussion and commentary happening. Mod?


  • Options
    #2640
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Project further delayed, plans won't be submitted until at least May...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2641
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Project further delayed, plans won't be submitted until at least May...

    That's actually not too bad. I was expecting mid summer

    On a serious note, I'd rather they sent in a watertight application because anything that'll facilitate an objection will only delay the project and lengthen the time until construction with appeals etc

    This project is going to be an objection magnet so may as well get it right the first time


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement