M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

This is the type of situation that would've been avoided had the Minister had any interest in his departmental duties rather than spending his whole time sticking his nose in other departments and concentrating on constituency issues with no relation to transport.

Spoofer Ross getting a proper job has exposed him for the bullshít artist that he is, as a man with no interest in the job, using his position to drive a personal agenda, and indulging in the kind of parochialism that the Healy-Raes would be proud of.

I hope to God that his constituents see sense and dump him at the next election. He can then go running back to Sugar Daddy Dinny, but his precitable cries of outrage will sound hollow given his own performance.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

TII have no interest in the public transport section, it has nothing to do with them. That's the job of the NTA. When the bypass is built, the existing N6 will be handed over to the council and TII will only be concerned with the new N6 and the approach roads from outside the city. These projects should have been totally independent of each other from day 1

Should have, could have.
It was sold as a combo project from DAY 1 by Galway City Council, Galway County Counci, NTA and TII - this was before ROSS was even Transport Minister.

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

Should have, could have.
It was sold as a combo project from DAY 1 by Galway City Council, Galway County Counci, NTA and TII - this was before ROSS was even Transport Minister.

That's a simplistic way of looking at it.

The two portions of the larger Galway City Transport Project are a road scheme, which has its own project process, and the public transport element, which is a number of smaller projects, with their own distinct timelines and planning stages. Progressing them as one was a bad idea from day one.

What should have happened is, when the N6 Galway City Ring Road project group applied to DTTAS for approval to send to ABP, and even before this, it should have been realised the mess regarding the combining of the projects. Not now when it's going to cause another 3 month delay.

In Dublin and Cork, all plans regarding roads, buses and rail are independent of each other. The same should have happened here.

Zzippy

marno21 wrote: »

That's a simplistic way of looking at it.

The two portions of the larger Galway City Transport Project are a road scheme, which has its own project process, and the public transport element, which is a number of smaller projects, with their own distinct timelines and planning stages. Progressing them as one was a bad idea from day one.

What should have happened is, when the N6 Galway City Ring Road project group applied to DTTAS for approval to send to ABP, and even before this, it should have been realised the mess regarding the combining of the projects. Not now when it's going to cause another 3 month delay.

In Dublin and Cork, all plans regarding roads, buses and rail are independent of each other. The same should have happened here.

Planning for transport should be an integrated process, so that plans for each mode of transport can be progressed to complement each other, and adjustments made at the planning stage to accommodate other modes. Not progressing one to completion and only then looking at what can be done with other modes, and maybe discovering that if we had done things slightly differently on Project A it would have made doing Project B much easier. Yes, the actual planning applications should be separate, but kicking the can on public transport down the road til we get the road sorted is the most shortsighted and frankly idiotic way to go about things.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

That's a simplistic way of looking at it.

Its not. That is the way it was been sold on the ground here in Galway City by the project team responsible. I attended most of the public meetings on it here... how many years ago was that now. :rolleyes:

marno21

Lads, I am in agreement with ye that the PT side and the road should be both advanced, however they should not be tied to each other for administrative purposes as a hold up in one will delay the other.

As it stands, the N6 Ring Road scheme will start in late 2022 and finish in 2026. The public transport side of things can be done in half that time as it's not a massive civil engineering project. The public transport elements are also hamstrung until the new N6 opens.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

As it stands, the N6 Ring Road scheme will start in late 2022 and finish in 2026. The public transport side of things can be done in half that time as it's not a massive civil engineering project. The public transport elements are also hamstrung until the new N6 opens.

Thats exactly what the Galway City Council CEO was saying at 10h25 this morning on RTE Radio 1 on the Miriam O Callaghan show.
We gotta wait a decade before anything can be done with public transport in Galway City. 8% public transport usage right now. The City cannot wait for this type of inaction.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Thats exactly what the Galway City Council CEO was saying at 10h25 this morning on RTE Radio 1 on the Miriam O Callaghan show.

LINK
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-sean-o-rourke/programmes/2018/0727/981437-today-with-miriam-ocallaghan-friday-27-july-2018/?clipid=102883876#102883876

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

Thats exactly what the Galway City Council CEO was saying at 10h25 this morning on RTE Radio 1 on the Miriam O Callaghan show.
We gotta wait a decade before anything can be done with public transport in Galway City. 8% public transport usage right now. The City cannot wait for this type of inaction.

What do you think of his comments on BusConnects Galway this morning? To begin in 2020?

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

What do you think of his comments on BusConnects Galway this morning? To begin in 2020?

Not a lot to be honest.
Based on the Council's performance for the last 4 years of the "N6 Transportation Project."
N6 Galway City Transport Project = http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/

If the "BUS Gates" he mentions happen on College Rd/Salmon Weir Bridge in 2019. Then perhaps they are serious about it. Other than that, as the segment finished I thought to myself after listening to it: "Is he just buying time till he retires."

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

Not a lot to be honest.
Based on the Council's performance for the last 4 years of the "N6 Transportation Project."
N6 Galway City Transport Project = http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/

If the "BUS Gates" he mentions happen on College Rd/Salmon Weir Bridge in 2019. Then perhaps they are serious about it. Other than that, as the segment finished I thought to myself after listening to it: "Is he just buying time till he retires."

That website should just be redesgined at this stage to reflect that's purely about the ring road.

BusConnects Galway is a seperate NTA driven project that will be published in September by that radio interview. So it looks from that that BusConnects Galway and the Ring Road may actually go to ABP at a similar time.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

That website should just be redesgined at this stage to reflect that's purely about the ring road.

No it should not. Should be left as is, to show it for what it is.

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

No it should not. Should be left as is, to show it for what it is.

Renamed probably a better word - the NTA BusConnects website will be published seperately

cenahs

youngrun wrote: »

The scheme impacts not just 41 homes- it takes out a lot of key city sporting facilities and recreational amenities also eg at NUI Galway lands and the Regional sports centre , affects a couple of schools eg Bushypark and the Bish relocation , impacts one of the most scenic and historic areas of the city at Menlo Castle and village, and impinges severely on a major residential area at Dangan so I can imagine there will quite a lot of opposition to this scheme, which has probably not been factored in to planning or timelines. It is essentially is another city roadway and imho would have been better served by routing via tunnel or at a more westerly crossing of the Corrib into vacant land.

I've been through the various reports on their website and am still at a loss as to how the option to tunnel the Corrib crossing (which would solve amenity, cultural heritage and NUIG issues at Menlo) was dropped in favour of a bridge. Cost is the obvious answer but this is surely likely to be the sticking point for the new proposal. Anyone here know how dropping the tunnel is being explained?

marno21

cenahs wrote: »

I've been through the various reports on their website and am still at a loss as to how the option to tunnel the Corrib crossing (which would solve amenity, cultural heritage and NUIG issues at Menlo) was dropped in favour of a bridge. Cost is the obvious answer but this is surely likely to be the sticking point for the new proposal. Anyone here know how dropping the tunnel is being explained?

I would be guessing cost. The scheme is already to cost €600m which is obscenely high to begin with

monument

marno21 wrote: »

TII have no interest in the public transport section, it has nothing to do with them. That's the job of the NTA. When the bypass is built, the existing N6 will be handed over to the council and TII will only be concerned with the new N6 and the approach roads from outside the city. These projects should have been totally independent of each other from day 1

This is a mess that could be avoided if the Minister for Transport had even a remote interest in what was going on in his department aside from going to rugby games and persecuting first time drink driving offenders and learner drivers.

This is only part of it. There's the ongoing issues with the runway at Dublin Airport, the fact that TII have no projects available to build in 2022 or so due to lack of interest in reactivating projects when they had to be done, the utter failure in trying to fix 150 sections of dangerous national road by 2020 and only managing 60 or so and the list goes on

Please do seprate them out -- it will be even harder for the motorway to nowhere to get approved then.

marno21

Still no update on this but I expect something to be published soon - there is likely an election coming also and publishing this may make for some good PR - until there is a large scale outpouring of objections when ABP have an Oral Hearing.

I expect the motorway order and EIS for this soon - nothing on the scheme website since the end of May

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

I expect the motorway order and EIS for this soon - nothing on the scheme website since the end of May

What have ya heard? Locally have heard that more area along/near the corridor has been designated in the Lough Corrib cSAC - because they are moving at such a snails pace on this project they have to go back and update all the documents.

remfan

The Corrib SPA ends at Menlo Pier (end of the pier road). This is about .5K north of the bypass route. I would be surprised that the SPA would be extended into the built up areas of Menlo and NUIG etc. Here is a map of the current SPA zone https://www.protectedplanet.net/lough-corrib-spa-special-protection-area-birds-directive

what_traffic

remfan wrote: »

The Corrib SPA ends at Menlo Pier (end of the pier road). This is about .5K north of the bypass route. I would be surprised that the SPA would be extended into the built up areas of Menlo and NUIG etc. Here is a map of the current SPA zone https://www.protectedplanet.net/lough-corrib-spa-special-protection-area-birds-directive

True - this was my understanding as well up until about two weeks ago.
But is that the most up-to-date one now?

marno21

N6 Galway City Ring Road to go to Cabinet meeting for approval this Thursday.

Pereplyotchik

marno21 wrote: »

N6 Galway City Ring Road to go to Cabinet meeting for approval this Thursday.

To quote Trainspotting.... ' Yeah you F**king dancer'

This time.... please let it get done this time....

remfan

what_traffic wrote: »

remfan wrote: »

The Corrib SPA ends at Menlo Pier (end of the pier road). This is about .5K north of the bypass route. I would be surprised that the SPA would be extended into the built up areas of Menlo and NUIG etc. Here is a map of the current SPA zone https://www.protectedplanet.net/lough-corrib-spa-special-protection-area-birds-directive

True - this was my understanding as well up until about two weeks ago.
But is that the most up-to-date one now?

I don't have any other info on this

remfan

what_traffic wrote: »

remfan wrote: »

The Corrib SPA ends at Menlo Pier (end of the pier road). This is about .5K north of the bypass route. I would be surprised that the SPA would be extended into the built up areas of Menlo and NUIG etc. Here is a map of the current SPA zone https://www.protectedplanet.net/lough-corrib-spa-special-protection-area-birds-directive

True - this was my understanding as well up until about two weeks ago.
But is that the most up-to-date one now?

just spotted this - from O'Cuiv - https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/td-calls-for-progress-on-n6-galway-city-ring-road/ he says that [font=Roboto, sans-serif]“I have been informed that in April this year the boundary of the Lough Corrib Candidate Special Area of Conservation (cSAC) was changed, which meant that the documentation relating to the planning process had to be amended to reflect the new boundary.[/font]
[font=Roboto, sans-serif]“These changes have been completed and the Bord Pleanála pre-application process has now closed.[/font]

highwaymaniac

remfan wrote: »

just spotted this - from O'Cuiv - https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/td-calls-for-progress-on-n6-galway-city-ring-road/ he says that [font=Roboto, sans-serif]“I have been informed that in April this year the boundary of the Lough Corrib Candidate Special Area of Conservation (cSAC) was changed, which meant that the documentation relating to the planning process had to be amended to reflect the new boundary.[/font]
[font=Roboto, sans-serif]“These changes have been completed and the Bord Pleanála pre-application process has now closed.[/font]

Was something similar not done just before the last planning application aswell? What department sets these boundarys? Is there a public consultation process and does a Minister have to approve the changes? Reading between the lines it seems the project team were caught unawares. Shocking carry on really.

Finally!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cabinet-to-run-rule-over-600m-galway-ring-road-1.3648098

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Finally!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cabinet-to-run-rule-over-600m-galway-ring-road-1.3648098

€600,000,000
It is so so expensive for what it is. 18km - 6km of which is Single Carriageway and 12km of just a Dual Carriageway.

Sam Russell

what_traffic wrote: »

€600,000,000
It is so so expensive for what it is. 18km - 6km of which is Single Carriageway and 12km of just a Dual Carriageway.

It has two tunnels, while Metrolink has only one, and costs €3 billion - 5 times as much - so must be a bargain.

JCX BXC

what_traffic wrote: »

€600,000,000
It is so so expensive for what it is. 18km - 6km of which is Single Carriageway and 12km of just a Dual Carriageway.

What an absurd remark. Do you expect it to cost the same as a motorway running across flat, rural, dry and riverless terrain?

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

€600,000,000
It is so so expensive for what it is. 18km - 6km of which is Single Carriageway and 12km of just a Dual Carriageway.

2 tunnels, 2 big bridges, runs entirely in suburban land, significant link roads at Parkmore and with the N59 etc

The 600m will only be worth it if the public transport solutions are completed in tandem