Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus · 26-06-2020 9:48pm

Just watched the Clermont game there in YouTube. What a game Jordi Murphy had. Hadn't appreciated watching it live how good he was.

bilston · 27-06-2020 10:35am

Players and staff all negative for Covid after round of testing.

aloooof · 03-07-2020 10:24am

It appears Ian Madigan is off to Ulster:

https://twitter.com/Ian_madigan/status/1278962088132710404

Scottmactom · 03-07-2020 10:24am

aloooof wrote: »

It appears Ian Madigan is off to Ulster:

https://twitter.com/Ian_madigan/status/1278962088132710404

announced months ago.

aloooof · 03-07-2020 10:25am

Scottmactom wrote: »

announced months ago.

Completely missed that in the height of the Covid goings on!

Shefwedfan · 03-07-2020 12:12pm

aloooof wrote: »

Completely missed that in the height of the Covid goings on!

How could you miss one of Ireland's superstars back home??

thomond2006 · 03-07-2020 12:31pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How could you miss one of Ireland's superstars back home??

Who's that now?

jacothelad · 03-07-2020 3:18pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How could you miss one of Ireland's superstars back home??

He didn't........;)

Paul Smeenus · 10-07-2020 3:21pm

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1281303615383244801?s=20

Time has not been kind to Our Ian.

Yeah_Right · 10-07-2020 3:50pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How could you miss one of Ireland's superstars back home??

Wait. What! Zebo's back??!!

jacothelad · 12-07-2020 10:47pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Wait. What! Zebo's back??!!

Ah! Your thinking of 'supper star'...

Shefwedfan · 13-07-2020 10:48am

The SA's press has the Bull are signing..........Cooetzee

Paul Smeenus · 13-07-2020 11:00am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The SA's press has the Bull are signing..........Cooetzee

Been going since March. He's signed with Ulster til 2023, I think.

End of the 21-22 season, actually

Shefwedfan · 13-07-2020 11:13am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Been going since March. He's signed with Ulster til 2023, I think.

End of the 21-22 season, actually

Yeah two seasons left, the SA's are saying Bulls can buy out because seemingly 2 billionaires have bought them

Personally I think it is cow poo but you never know.....if they want to pay stupid money the IRFU and Ulster might need to take after the Covid lockdown

Paul Smeenus · 13-07-2020 11:33am

On one hand, I'd be gutted. But yeah, money generally is going to be an issue, and if money for Coetzee smoothed Ulster's way during lockdown, it might simply be the wisest thing to do.

He's always spoken about how much he owed Ulster for sticking with him when injured, and he was getting picked for the national team anyway, so I don't know what his motivation would be particularly. And I remember being categorically guaranteed that when Tommy Bowe was coming back to Ireland, he was signing for Munster, we were signing Stephen Donald after Christiaan Lealifano, and a million other transfer rumours that needed to be taken with a shovel-load of salt. But we'll see.

bilston · 13-07-2020 4:27pm

Presumably Ulster hold the aces given Coetzee has two years left on his contract. If Ulster need to offload him from their wage bill then so be it, like Paul I'd be gutted, but it's more important we keep the IQ players. If Ulster don't need to offload him then you'd think he won't be going anywhere.

Unfortunately Covid has changed everything

launish116 · 13-07-2020 8:31pm

If true? Season is over already!

Shefwedfan · 13-07-2020 10:42pm

I suppose a lot depends in reality on how Leavy is recovering. If Leavy is back and firing then the overload at Leinster in backrow will be high

Deegan, Doris, Ruddock, Conan, Penny, VDF, Leavy, Fardy, Connors

Something will have to give, so if Coetzee did leave then the IRFU would probably look to move someone up to replace, plus getting a potential pay day for Ulster as the Bulls need to pay serious money to release from contract

All speculation of course

bilston · 22-07-2020 1:16pm

The 2007 Super Rugby final is in Sky Sports Action (Sharks v Bulls) at the moment.

Just saying because both Pienaar and Muller both playing for the Sharks and Pedrie Wannenberg playing for the Bulls.

South Africa had some talent back then, of course they went onto to win the world cup later in the year.

Edit - I didn't realise Brad Barritt played for the Sharks back then

Paul Smeenus · 29-07-2020 9:11pm

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-depth-chart-2020-5162997-Jul2020/

Useful breakdown.

Madigan and especially Mathewson really add a lot, provided they continue to play as they can do. Being able to play Alby in Cooney's absence instead of Shanahan could be massive. Our game against Clermont and the European game against Leinster last season illustrate quite vividly what our biggest Achilles' heel is - penalties in the last twenty minutes as the concentration goes or a lacklustre bench is being sprung. Hopefully Mathewson and Milasinovich will help substantially. I love O'Toole, but cold off the bench against gnarly French props, he gets ground down in the scrums.

McBurney really has to start playing using his head - the pressure will be on, with Herring often away with Ireland. We'll be relying on him, not bringing him in to up the aggro at the end of games.

Back row is our weakest area. Coetzee is monumental, Murphy and Reidy good, Rea worth his place and then it's unconvincing. Hopefully Rea Jr and Allison step up.

Backs is a different kettle of fish. I'd say we have the most exciting young talent of any of the provinces at centre, and the most depth in the back three. I'd put a combination of Gilroy, Lyttle, Faddes and Lowry against any other second choice provincial back three (once Kearney says his goodbye).

Roll on the next game!

bilston · 29-07-2020 10:42pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-depth-chart-2020-5162997-Jul2020/

Useful breakdown.

Madigan and especially Mathewson really add a lot, provided they continue to play as they can do. Being able to play Alby in Cooney's absence instead of Shanahan could be massive. Our game against Clermont and the European game against Leinster last season illustrate quite vividly what our biggest Achilles' heel is - penalties in the last twenty minutes as the concentration goes or a lacklustre bench is being sprung. Hopefully Mathewson and Milasinovich will help substantially. I love O'Toole, but cold off the bench against gnarly French props, he gets ground down in the scrums.

McBurney really has to start playing using his head - the pressure will be on, with Herring often away with Ireland. We'll be relying on him, not bringing him in to up the aggro at the end of games.

Back row is our weakest area. Coetzee is monumental, Murphy and Reidy good, Rea worth his place and then it's unconvincing. Hopefully Rea Jr and Allison step up.

Backs is a different kettle of fish. I'd say we have the most exciting young talent of any of the provinces at centre, and the most depth in the back three. I'd put a combination of Gilroy, Lyttle, Faddes and Lowry against any other second choice provincial back three (once Kearney says his goodbye).

Roll on the next game!

I've always liked McBurney but he needs to speed up his development a bit because very soon he is going to see Tom Stewart catching up in his rear view mirror. That kid is a serious prospect at hooker.

Who knows what the next few weeks or months have in store but if nothing else we should have the August Inter Pros and it will be good to see the boys back on the pitch.

They'll need to hit the ground running as well if they want to secure a semi final spot.

launish116 · 30-07-2020 12:43pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-depth-chart-2020-5162997-Jul2020/
Back row is our weakest area. Coetzee is monumental, Murphy and Reidy good, Rea worth his place and then it's unconvincing. Hopefully Rea Jr and Allison step up

If Rea Jnr, Allison or McCann never manage to make the step up, we may just give up! Just can’t fathom why we can’t produce backrows!

stellenbosch · 30-07-2020 1:12pm

launish116 wrote: »

If Rea Jnr, Allison or McCann never manage to make the step up, we may just give up! Just can’t fathom why we can’t produce backrows!

Whats the feeling on Jones ability to nail down a starting spot? Timoney?

launish116 · 30-07-2020 1:50pm

stellenbosch wrote: »

Whats the feeling on Jones ability to nail down a starting spot? Timoney?

Jones is 6’5 and mobile, just don’t see that translating to the pitch. Albeit thats harsh and he’s hasn't had alot of Senior game time. No reason why he shouldn’t be competing with Rea for the 6 shirt! If he doesnt push on this season id say he’ll be moving on.

Timoney has gained and suffered a little from his versatility. Think he needs the opportunity to lock down one position and get continuous game time there.

Foresee Ulsters big issue is versatility after Coetzee (8) and Murphy (7) no one really has a position completely locked down. I appreciated that there is numerous reasons for that best players on pitch/injuries/rotation/game plan etc. But a quick look at the last 10 games and we had 5 or 6 different starting backrow line ups, with some players playing completely different positions each game bar Coetzee.

Rea Snr needs to lock down blindside, when he stays injury free and gets a run of games he can! Hard to remember he’s only really 1.5 seasons into senior rugby.

Reidy is the only player versatility works in his favour as he really does give it all regardless of position. Though we do lose carrying ability.

Allison/Rea jnr/McCann the opportunity is there, hopefully there adjusting to senior rugby and preseason. Have high hopes for Allison(8) and McCann(6)

Rant over!

Paul Smeenus · 30-07-2020 2:02pm

stellenbosch wrote: »

Whats the feeling on Jones ability to nail down a starting spot? Timoney?

Timoney would have been a regular starter when Coetzee was out for basically a whole season, and Murphy hadn't yet come North Of The Wall. Athletic, and great at getting up in the lineout. But I've never seen him impose himself on the opposition. Perfectly good bench material.

Jones is fine, not much else. Really can't see him ever having a starting spot.

I might be being unfair. Neither is Deegan or Doris, but they don't need to be. If one of them turns out to be another Chris Henry - very smart, tough, a good leader - then they may well be first choice in a couple of years. But I haven't seen anything to indicate it.

bilston · 30-07-2020 2:14pm

Jones has usually done quite well when he has got a chance, Timoney has always been close to the starting XV.

It depends on who is fit.

If everyone is fit then my preferred back row is Rea, Murphy and Coetzee with Reidy on the bench. Timoney would come next.

Paul Smeenus · 30-07-2020 2:40pm

bilston wrote: »

Jones has usually done quite well when he has got a chance, Timoney has always been close to the starting XV.

It depends on who is fit.

If everyone is fit then my preferred back row is Rea, Murphy and Coetzee with Reidy on the bench. Timoney would come next.

Same.

Digifriendly · 30-07-2020 10:01pm

Heard on the grapevine Rob Lyttle is still having problem with recurring injuries. Real pity as he's a flyer with genuine pace and always a threat.

Paul Smeenus · 31-07-2020 11:19am

Digifriendly wrote: »

Heard on the grapevine Rob Lyttle is still having problem with recurring injuries. Real pity as he's a flyer with genuine pace and always a threat.

That's a real disappointment - injuries seem to have been a serious issue for him, and part of the reason he hasn't gotten more gametime.

Paul Smeenus · 01-08-2020 12:57pm

Sean Farrell has an intriguing article in the 42.ie that is basically all the metaphors he knows that involve dogs and something to do with Ulster. If anyone makes any sense if it, I'll be right here.

Paul Smeenus · 05-08-2020 10:22am

Digifriendly wrote: »

Heard on the grapevine Rob Lyttle is still having problem with recurring injuries. Real pity as he's a flyer with genuine pace and always a threat.

In the latest training pics, holding a bib, so I'm going to say he's okay.

Burkie1203 · 11-08-2020 9:46am

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1293103744972980224?s=19

thomond2006 · 11-08-2020 9:55am

Addison is luckless. Henderson is touch and go for the finish of the Six Nations then.

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 10:00am

Hendo out is a big blow to our Pro14/European ambitions, and does that mean that for the Six Nations we're looking at Toner + 1 for the second row? That is not good.

Buer · 11-08-2020 10:05am

James Ryan will be back well in time for the 6N.

I'd have real concerns over Addison at this point. I'm a big fan but the guy simply cannot keep fit for more than a month. The back is notoriously problematic to get right but he has just had 7 months without a match and is injured again.

If fit, he's in the Irish 23 for me but 19 Ulster appearances in almost two seasons is a fairly problematic return for a guy who is still relatively young.

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 10:15am

Thank God on Ryan, and yeah, agreed on Addison.

Carbery as well -:you just wonder are they reading the same writing on the wall you can see ..

Clegg · 11-08-2020 10:18am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hendo out is a big blow to our Pro14/European ambitions, and does that mean that for the Six Nations we're looking at Toner + 1 for the second row? That is not good.

If Ryan is fit then his partner will probably be Toner or Kleyn. Neither are great options really. I'd love to see Farrell be brave and select Baird instead.

Niallof9 · 11-08-2020 10:19am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Timoney would have been a regular starter when Coetzee was out for basically a whole season, and Murphy hadn't yet come North Of The Wall. Athletic, and great at getting up in the lineout. But I've never seen him impose himself on the opposition. Perfectly good bench material.

Jones is fine, not much else. Really can't see him ever having a starting spot.

I might be being unfair. Neither is Deegan or Doris, but they don't need to be. If one of them turns out to be another Chris Henry - very smart, tough, a good leader - then they may well be first choice in a couple of years. But I haven't seen anything to indicate it.

Deegan and Doris are streets ahead of Henry at the same age.

Jones is bang average.

Former Former · 11-08-2020 11:48am

The Ulster update says Henderson is expected back 'mid to late' October so he might be available for the finish of the 6N - of course he won't have played a game in eight months at that stage which isn't ideal.

I think Addison is on borrowed time tbh.

yerrahbah · 11-08-2020 11:53am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hendo out is a big blow to our Pro14/European ambitions, and does that mean that for the Six Nations we're looking at Toner + 1 for the second row? That is not good.

Toner and Kleyn for the Lols please

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 12:29pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Deegan and Doris are streets ahead of Henry at the same age.

Jones is bang average.

Yeah, I was saying that they don't need to be the same level as Deegan or Doris, they could "only" be at Henry's level, to be a useful player. Unclench, my man. Breathe.

But that's my gut feeling about Jones as well.

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 12:33pm

Carter in for Hendo and, for me, Lowry in for Addison.

Niallof9 · 11-08-2020 12:37pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah, I was saying that they don't need to be the same level as Deegan or Doris, they could "only" be at Henry's level, to be a useful player. Unclench, my man. Breathe.

But that's my gut feeling about Jones as well.

Ah ok fair enough. apologies

The thing about JOnes is the amount of players i've seen come and go that are streets ahead of him. HE is tall and somewhat athletic.

But i played once and trained with Timoney, he was always a standout. Not so with Jones. To me it boggles the mind how guys like him get a shot. And i watched a fair bit of UCD back when he was playing for them. He played a good few twenties games where he did well. But he's 24 with 11 games needs to push on or be cut. Imo Irish rubgy needs to get ruthless with this sort of player. Move a Leinster guy with a decent shot at making it if Marcel is gone. Leave the risks to Connacht.

jacothelad · 11-08-2020 12:39pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Carter in for Hendo and, for me, Lowry in for Addison.

Ludik at full back. Lowry is a luxury Ulster can't afford to carry until he....develops an Iron Man suit.

Niallof9 · 11-08-2020 12:41pm

Lowry is class and a guy Ulster and Irish rugby need to be playing at ten

mfceiling · 11-08-2020 12:58pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Lowry is class and a guy Ulster and Irish rugby need to be playing at ten

Lowry is great but he is really small. Paul Marshall looked big beside him. I'm not sure if he'll make it due to his size. Hopefully I'm wrong but the days of the Shane Williams seem to be gone.

jacothelad · 11-08-2020 1:26pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yeah, I was saying that they don't need to be the same level as Deegan or Doris, they could "only" be at Henry's level, to be a useful player. Unclench, my man. Breathe.

But that's my gut feeling about Jones as well.

Well Henry didn't have the benefit of professional coaching, weights and diet management etc while at school nor did he have the benefit of the developmental path of a fully professional, well funded and competently staffed academy. The fact that he became as good as he did without what is available now speaks volumes for him. I think if he could have undergone what is now commonplace in rugby schools and the academy in Leinster, he would absolutely have excelled to an even greater degree. Consider Joe Schmidt's opinion of him. He really made the most of what he had without the leg up players get today.

Buer · 11-08-2020 1:32pm

If Deegan or Doris reach a level where they're starting every game in a winning 6N campaign, they'll be doing very well for themselves.

Yeah_Right · 11-08-2020 4:38pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Lowry is great but he is really small. Paul Marshall looked big beside him. I'm not sure if he'll make it due to his size. Hopefully I'm wrong but the days of the Shane Williams seem to be gone.

Damien McKenzie and Cheslin Kolbe would like to have a word with you.

Paul Smeenus · 11-08-2020 4:41pm

McFarland is a huge fan - unless I'm mistaken, he's put Lowry in the leadership group?

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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