Pro14 Season 2019-2020

realhorrorshow · 28-12-2019 5:51pm

Schoeman is some player.

28-12-2019 5:52pm

Edinburgh - Glasgow a cracker.

Squidgy Black · 28-12-2019 5:55pm

Strange scenes at the end of it, ref paused the clock for the conversion at 79:55, made Glasgow take the restart and then didn't blow it up after a knock-on a couple of seconds after the restart (clock was at around (81 minutes at that stage).

AdamD · 28-12-2019 6:13pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Zebre are embarrassing. Getting bullied by a team who had a man sent off after 15 minutes. People can bad mouth the premiership all they want. There are more teams in the Pro14 who are dross than in England.

Zebre, Kings, Dragons and Ospreys are useless

I watched Bristol v Wasps last night and the standard was dreadful

molloyjh · 28-12-2019 6:49pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Zebre are embarrassing. Getting bullied by a team who had a man sent off after 15 minutes. People can bad mouth the premiership all they want. There are more teams in the Pro14 who are dross than in England.

Zebre, Kings, Dragons and Ospreys are useless

We also have more teams in our league. Unfortunately the addition of 2 new teams from SA has meant 1 new whipping boy.

The thing is, nobody peddles a line about the Pro14 being a great league. That's said about the Premiership all the time. But its filled predominantly with a whole pile of average teams playing average rugby. Saracens have been a step above, illegally as we've seen, and Exeter have been good too, although their record in Europe is very poor. So theres really only 1 top team in what is deemed to be a top league. And they're proven cheats.

thomond2006 · 28-12-2019 6:52pm

There's too many fixtures in the calendar to the dominant in Europe and a domestic competition that is competitive, unless you're Toulon circa 2013-15 when they had an (1) an incredible squad of 20-25 starters to rotate throughout the season, (2) leaders across the pitch like Guirado, Fernandez Lobbe and Wilkinson and (3) relatively few international absences.

Putting three interpro weeks together over the festive period is a relatively recent change and it's terrible. Two interpro games is fine.

28-12-2019 10:07pm

AdamD wrote: »

I watched Bristol v Wasps last night and the standard was dreadful

It was pathetic. Two groups of well paid talented footballers who absolutely didn't give a rashers. These were experienced teams and the intensity was a fraction of that in the Munster v Leinster game, which featured largely second string players.

I challenge anyone to watch both and try to argue they are approaching the same level of commitment.

28-12-2019 10:52pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's too many fixtures in the calendar to the dominant in Europe and a domestic competition that is competitive, unless you're Toulon circa 2013-15 when they had an (1) an incredible squad of 20-25 starters to rotate throughout the season, (2) leaders across the pitch like Guirado, Fernandez Lobbe and Wilkinson and (3) relatively few international absences.

Putting three interpro weeks together over the festive period is a relatively recent change and it's terrible. Two interpro games is fine.

I think it's good that a mix of experience among the provinces get to size each other up from time to time. This generates a lot of good feedback within the national team environment as to opposition players strengths and some of their weaknesses. The players get a lot of good feedback from these games and get to play infront of a loud partisan crowd which has value in itself.

I also like to see developing talent in these kinds of mash up games. There are often breakthrough performances that showcase when a player has legitimately progressed to international standard among a more reasonable reflection of their peers.

I thought Andrew Porter was probably chief among these today. He had one big error and another where the ball went back and then forward off a foot so not entirely his fault. But his physicality in defense hurt Munster. He might be the most powerful man in rugby and he's learnt how to use it. I'd love a journalist to have a good look at his performances this season because I think he's been absolutely sensational.

Will Connors similarly was outputting at a different level to those around him. Absolutely relentless and expect his stat sheet to be interesting reading. He was there every time momentum shifted and his speed and effort off the line had a visible impact on JJ's game.

Jack O'Donoghue also showed why he should be in contention for the six nations and also why Munster are wasting him at 7 in a team lacking ball carriers. Thought his overall involvement at 8 eclipsed anything I've seen from him at 7.

Doris absolutely worthy of the motm but I feel he had less overall impact than the above 3. He's no problems at this level at all though and has a bit of Keiron Reed about him, extremely focused, aware and athletic player.

Final word to Scott Fardy. What an amazing signing. I posted during the game that he was the glue to Leinsters performance. He was right there to fill in the gaps when the pack was not firing on all cylinders. Doris got absolutely smashed later in the second half and was about to get floored to deck, Fardy had seen it coming and latched at the last second to Doris maintaining the gainline. I'm itching for a copy of the game to get online so I can watch it back. It should be the first thing every child entering the game of rugby watches. I can't get over how committed Fardy is to the cause. He gives international level effort every single time he plays. The absolute legend.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2019 6:48am

Anyone post it on you tube?

Utah_Saint · 29-12-2019 9:38am

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's too many fixtures in the calendar to the dominant in Europe and a domestic competition that is competitive,

I have always believed the future of rugby is an NFL style euro league or at least a Britain & Ire NFL style league. Fewer games of higher quality with bigger crowds and more money. I was critical of NFL and US sports in the past as it was more about overall entertainment than the sport itself. I now realise that is the only way rugby will grow and survive.

Former Former · 29-12-2019 10:46am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Anyone post it on you tube?

Full game is on TG4.ie

sydthebeat · 31-12-2019 12:08am

Looks like we'll get five good close games this weekend, and two trouncings (leinster v connacht, Edinburgh v Kings)

Eod100 · 31-12-2019 12:20pm

Webb back to Ospreys

Squidgy Black · 31-12-2019 12:27pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Webb back to Ospreys

Things starting to swing back in Wales favour now with their central contracts, two big stars who went money chasing back with the regions now in Webb and Williams.

I know Webb was stated to be because of family reasons as his family stayed in Wales when he went off to Toulon, but I'm sure the fact he can actually earn decent money at home played a big part in it too.

sydthebeat · 31-12-2019 12:40pm

How much ownership, if any, does the wru have in the Welsh franchises?

Squidgy Black · 31-12-2019 1:09pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

How much ownership, if any, does the wru have in the Welsh franchises?

They bought the Dragons back in 2017 I think, but Cardiff, Scarlets and the Ospreys are majority private owned I believe, I don't think the WRU have much of a stake in Cardiff or Scarlets at all.

thomond2006 · 31-12-2019 1:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

How much ownership, if any, does the wru have in the Welsh franchises?

They own the Dragons. That's it I believe.

molloyjh · 31-12-2019 1:39pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

They own the Dragons. That's it I believe.

And they are in talks to sell it off again now AFAIK.

Buer · 31-12-2019 2:42pm

Aren't central contracts being done away with? They were in talks earlier this year about honouring existing deals but introducing a new salary band system based on certain tiers of players.

Regardless, I doubt Webb has come back to massive money or much expecation of a Welsh spot. He'll be almost 32 when he plays again for the Ospreys and Davies and Tomos Williams have been going very well for Wales. Pivac has no real loyalty to him or history with him either which won't help.

sydthebeat · 31-12-2019 2:51pm

Paddy mcallister cleared

Ridiculous imho

Buer · 31-12-2019 2:53pm

The Guinness PRO14 Team of the Decade:

15 Isa Nacewa
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Bundee Aki
11 Shane Williams
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Ruan Pienaar
8 John Muldoon
7 Hamish Watson
6 John Barclay
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Leone Nakarawa
3 John Afoa
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
1 Gethin Jenkins

Some odd calls in there. Afoa had a good 18 months at most and then was an expensive burden on Ulster. Surely there's a more deserving option than Sexton? Biggar? Shane Williams left for Japan in 2012 and didn't play much in those 2 last seasons.

This looks purely like a profile boosting selection for the league organisers who chose on the basis of biggest names rather than the most deserving guys like DTH VDM, Holland, Biggar, Parks etc.

Buer · 31-12-2019 2:54pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Paddy mcallister cleared

Ridiculous imho

"Accidental" according to the panel. The lack of consistency is a farce.

sydthebeat · 31-12-2019 3:04pm

Can't see why Tim visser didn't make that team

Buer · 31-12-2019 3:14pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can't see why Tim visser didn't make that team

Good shout. Top scorer for 4 consecutive seasons. Bit of a joke, really.

awec · 31-12-2019 3:14pm

Buer wrote: »

The Guinness PRO14 Team of the Decade:

15 Isa Nacewa
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Bundee Aki
11 Shane Williams
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Ruan Pienaar
8 John Muldoon
7 Hamish Watson
6 John Barclay
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Leone Nakarawa
3 John Afoa
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
1 Gethin Jenkins

Some odd calls in there. Afoa had a good 18 months at most and then was an expensive burden on Ulster. Surely there's a more deserving option than Sexton? Biggar? Shane Williams left for Japan in 2012 and didn't play much in those 2 last seasons.

This looks purely like a profile boosting selection for the league organisers who chose on the basis of biggest names rather than the most deserving guys like DTH VDM, Holland, Biggar, Parks etc.

It’s a nonsense selection, good few of those guys barely play(ed) in the league.

Squidgy Black · 31-12-2019 3:15pm

Buer wrote: »

The Guinness PRO14 Team of the Decade:

15 Isa Nacewa
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Bundee Aki
11 Shane Williams
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Ruan Pienaar
8 John Muldoon
7 Hamish Watson
6 John Barclay
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Leone Nakarawa
3 John Afoa
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
1 Gethin Jenkins

Some odd calls in there. Afoa had a good 18 months at most and then was an expensive burden on Ulster. Surely there's a more deserving option than Sexton? Biggar? Shane Williams left for Japan in 2012 and didn't play much in those 2 last seasons.

This looks purely like a profile boosting selection for the league organisers who chose on the basis of biggest names rather than the most deserving guys like DTH VDM, Holland, Biggar, Parks etc.

In terms of the Pro14, would you really take Biggar over Sexton? Was a part in the 2010/11/12 finals, won in 2013, came back and was part of the 2016 final and won in 2018 and 19.

Biggar won in 2010 and 2012.

thomond2006 · 31-12-2019 3:18pm

awec wrote: »

It’s a nonsense selection, good few of those guys barely play(ed) in the league.

Sexton has made 21 Pro14 appearances in the last full four seasons. It's laughable.
I suppose there hasn't been a consistent 10 performing well in the league over the decade so they opt for the name everyone knows.

Utah_Saint · 31-12-2019 3:21pm

Buer wrote: »

"Accidental" according to the panel. The lack of consistency is a farce.

Yeah...no consistency. It was accidental but that should only mean a reduced ban.

Buer · 31-12-2019 3:29pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

In terms of the Pro14, would you really take Biggar over Sexton? Was a part in the 2010/11/12 finals, won in 2013, came back and was part of the 2016 final and won in 2018 and 19.

Biggar won in 2010 and 2012.

I would, yes. Sexton was involved in finals but they were hardly on the back of his involvement. The last 3 years have been down to Ross Byrne more than Sexton. 2010-2013 saw Madigan play a significant amount of games (including a top scorer award in one year).

Biggar was top points scorer in 3 seasons. He was involved in a serious number of matches for the Ospreys and carried the team on plenty of occasions. I don't particularly like him as a personality on the pitch but he should have gotten the nod for this team.

Sexton is a world class operator but he only started 55 Pro14/12 games (I think) in the past decade and is still yet to appear in the Pro14 this season.

Burkie1203 · 01-01-2020 9:50pm

Jonny Gray leaving Glasgow

Squidgy Black · 01-01-2020 9:55pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Jonny Gray leaving Glasgow

Exeter is the team being reported

thomond2006 · 01-01-2020 11:41pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Jonny Gray leaving Glasgow

Glasgow could be in for a fallow period. Given the dirge served up by Wales, the league needs a competitive Glasgow side. That's three superstar players in their prime in Russell, Hogg and Gray lost in two years.

Buer · 02-01-2020 9:17am

They're already a mediocre/poor enough side. They've only one 4 games this season and that was at home to the Blues (just about), home to the Kings, away to Zebre and home to Edinburgh (just about). They're firmly in the bracket of Pro14 also rans currently. They're essentially out of Europe already too.

Gray leaving cannot be much of a surprise to them. He's an excellent player and won't want to waste his career. His brother may have regressed since leaving but he's at a top club, has won a T14 title and has a very healthy bank balance, I'd imagine. It's very hard for Johnny Gray to look at that and wonder why he's killing himself in front of 6k people in miserable conditions each week.

Interesting to see Exeter building a very strong team which is starting to feature the marquee names they previously lacked. They're probably lacking a really top class half back to steer them but I don't see them making a signing there as they're investing heavily in their young half backs. Mad to think that Simmonds has only turned 23 but has over 70 appearances for them in a key position.

02-01-2020 11:55am

Buer wrote: »

They're already a mediocre/poor enough side. They've only one 4 games this season and that was at home to the Blues (just about), home to the Kings, away to Zebre and home to Edinburgh (just about). They're firmly in the bracket of Pro14 also rans currently. They're essentially out of Europe already too.

Ever since the Leinster game I've had concerns about Glasgow. Leinster were top drawer that day but Glasgow had no fight despite all the talent on the pitch. Gray was one of the few players for them who showed up. For their second try if you go back and watch it you can see he's the one calling the 9 to put the ball wide as there was an overlap. Very smart, aware operator and a huge loss to Glasgow. They've no one to replace him with and would spend a fortune to do so on the market. This just makes them weaker.

This will also impact his availability for the national team. He'll still get selected but won't be as well managed anymore. I wonder is this move a bit about getting away from Towsends Scotland also.

Bad few years talent drain from Glasgow and Scotland to be honest. MacParland was a huge loss on top of all the players who've left.

I've been predicting a dire six nations for them given their run in and form coming from the World Cup. Might be a needed catalyst for change.

Clegg · 02-01-2020 11:59am

Scotland have replaced their defence coach. That will benefit them in the long run I think. They've been awful at that aspect of the game for a few years. Steve Tandy is the replacement however. He was a terrible head coach of the Ospreys, but did an ok job at the Waratahs by all accounts.

Clegg · 02-01-2020 12:01pm

Glasgow have confirmed the signing of Leone Nakarawa until the end of the season. Normally I'd say that's a fantastic signig, but I wonder where his heads at following his sacking from Racing.

https://www.the42.ie/leone-nakarawa-returns-to-glasgow-warriors-4951455-Jan2020/

02-01-2020 12:04pm

It's a shame about Glasgow really, they won the league the other year and with Cockerill doing a really good job at Edinburgh (and he still is imo) it appeared the two sides + Scotland themselves really were trending in the right direction. Think it was last season or the season before they started the league off with 9 or 10 wins in a row and nearly all of them BP wins. This year they're P9W4L5 and not looking good for the playoffs.

Faugheen · 02-01-2020 3:02pm

Clegg wrote: »

Glasgow have confirmed the signing of Leone Nakarawa until the end of the season. Normally I'd say that's a fantastic signig, but I wonder where his heads at following his sacking from Racing.

https://www.the42.ie/leone-nakarawa-returns-to-glasgow-warriors-4951455-Jan2020/

If he’s anywhere near as good as we know he is it’s a great signing, especially with Jonny Gray leaving.

Zzippy · 02-01-2020 11:47pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Looks like we'll get five good close games this weekend, and two trouncings (leinster v connacht, Edinburgh v Kings)

Thanks Syd!

sydthebeat · 03-01-2020 12:07am

Zzippy wrote: »

Thanks Syd!

Sorry zipps...

The sun will rise, water is wet, and leinster will put 40 on connacht on Saturday

03-01-2020 12:35am

It's a terribly timed fixture for Connacht. Form is on a bit of a dip either at the same time as or as a result of the fairly significant injury list.

Leinster are playing consistent and accurate rugby, if Connacht reproduce their performance in Ravenhill they'll concede the same or more points.

On the plus side it's cross conference so the result isn't at all significant from a league perspective, few if any teams will pick up a win in the RDS this year.

03-01-2020 12:35am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Sorry zipps...

The sun will rise, water is wet, and leinster will put 40 on connacht on Saturday

Why did you pull your pants down after apologising? What sort of sick **** are you?

sydthebeat · 03-01-2020 12:38am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why did you pull your pants down after apologising? What sort of sick **** are you?

Makes the truth easier to swallow....

Or.... Ehhh....

molloyjh · 03-01-2020 1:13am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why did you pull your pants down after apologising? What sort of sick **** are you?

He said water was wet Venjur. Water. Nothing else.

Buer · 03-01-2020 6:07pm

Glasgow have confirmed Johnny Gray's departure to Exeter.

The Pro14 just took another hit. I think it really underlines how the league is viewed by many (particularly in Wales and Scotland) when we see guys like North, Biggar, Hogg, Denton, Liam Williams, Maitland, Roberts etc. moving to England.

ClanofLams · 03-01-2020 6:11pm

Buer wrote: »

Glasgow have confirmed Johnny Gray's departure to Exeter.

The Pro14 just took another hit. I think it really underlines how the league is viewed by many (particularly in Wales and Scotland) when we see guys like North, Biggar, Hogg, Denton, Liam Williams, Maitland, Roberts etc. moving to England.

I think it’s just financial reality rather than how the league is viewed. If Glasgow and Welsh regions could match offers don’t think those players would be moving.

Buer · 03-01-2020 7:10pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

I think it’s just financial reality rather than how the league is viewed. If Glasgow and Welsh regions could match offers don’t think those players would be moving.

Of course money is the driving factor not but I still believe there's a perception amongst the Welsh and Scottish that the GP is the better league. We've seen a glut of Scottish players move south to pretty mediocre teams who wouldn't have big budgets. Newcastle have always had several Scots on their books for example and I doubt they're making anything huge for uprooting their lives.

If all things were equal financially, I would still expect the odd one to move and no English players to move the other way unless it was for a shot at test rugby like Burns.

Bridge93 · 03-01-2020 9:31pm

I always thought a fair amount of the welsh and particularly the scots we see in the Prem were there because they’re actually English by birth and just went through the system. Hogg and now Gray are obviously ‘indigenous’ Scottish but are any of the other national team regulars born in Scotland? Russell and Laid.aw obviously in France along with Ritchie Gray

Squidgy Black · 04-01-2020 12:44am

Nick Griggs is on his way to Wasps or La Rochelle reportedly. Glasgow are getting gutted.

OldRio · 04-01-2020 11:13am

Buer wrote: »

Of course money is the driving factor not but I still believe there's a perception amongst the Welsh and Scottish that the GP is the better league. We've seen a glut of Scottish players move south to pretty mediocre teams who wouldn't have big budgets. Newcastle have always had several Scots on their books for example and I doubt they're making anything huge for uprooting their lives.

If all things were equal financially, I would still expect the odd one to move and no English players to move the other way unless it was for a shot at test rugby like Burns.

To be fair a move to Newcastle is hardly uprooting their lives. About 90 mins travel time.

Pro14 Season 2019-2020

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