DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Sam Russell · 15-10-2019 8:04pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If I was 'designing' something for this purpose I would have a receiver with multiple tuners, and make its output available on LAN (wired and wireless) for various devices to 'tune' into.
Something similar to what I have presently for TV and radio using tvheadend backend running on a real light wee box.

Keeping the tuners in one location would make it easy for attaching coax only at that loaction.

Sounds good.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-10-2019 8:17pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

If DAB is to be promoted, then it should be a requirement that any station on FM has a presence on DAB in that locality.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, FM radios go back to the fifties and any still working are generally better than the newer batch. It is possible to have very cheap FM radios that are very good as pocket radios.

DB radios on the other hand, are rubbish as a portable as they eat batteries, but could (if the broadcaster is not greedy with bandwidth) give much better quality, but normally do not. DB radios are not good with marginal signals because of the digital cliff effect.

Why are there no radio receivers that can get Saorview type broadcasts? [Just getting the audio from TV and the radio stations].

Cheapest FM radio is free. And most likely you have one in your pocket as most mobile phones have had them built in forever.

As for the "must carry" look at Saorview only RTE1 and RTE2 are in HD.
So there's lots of power wasted transmitting nothing because not all of the available bandwidth is being used.

Why is TG4 not HD on Saorsat ? There's no competition from Virgin.

If you have mains power then many DAB channels are on your TV or Saoriew or satellite box even if you don't have the interwebs.

If you don't have power then DAB eats batteries.

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for the simplicity of the ould tranny on the windowsill.

How long do torch batteries last in them ?

Gerry Wicklow · 15-10-2019 9:12pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

....

How long do torch batteries last in them ?

I have a small tranny that runs for 7-8 weeks on 2 x AAs (rechargeables). Show me a DAB that can do that.

Andy From Sligo · 20-10-2019 7:15pm

its strange how languages change - tranny means totally different thing these days <snigger>

god's toy · 07-11-2019 8:05am

...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.

Johnboy1951 · 07-11-2019 3:19pm

god's toy wrote: »

...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.

Yeah, heard some ref to that this morn ........ not that I was ever in a position/location to use it anyway.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1106/1089209-rte-cuts/

RTÉ has confirmed that it is seeking to reduce its workforce by 200 as one of a series of measures to tackle its financial crisis and reduce projected costs by €60m over the next three years.

Other notable measures include the closure of the existing studios in Limerick and the digital radio network, the sale of the RTÉ Guide and the closure of the Aertel service

Mickey Mike · 07-11-2019 7:29pm

It is so disappointing to hear the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels, I've always thought digital is the way forward and they would launch a national BAB service. Backwards they are going, still stuck with rubbish LW and FM, definitely its a bad day for digital.

Mickey Mike · 07-11-2019 11:56pm

I wonder will RTE Radio1, 2FM, RnaG and Lyric FM continue on Saorview platform?

Rick_ · 08-11-2019 10:03am

Why wouldn't they?

Andy From Sligo · 08-11-2019 3:35pm

Mickey Mike wrote: »

It is so disappointing to hear the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels, I've always thought digital is the way forward and they would launch a national BAB service. Backwards they are going, still stuck with rubbish LW and FM, definitely its a bad day for digital.

Backwards indeed - I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?

Trick of the Tail · 08-11-2019 3:40pm

Well I don't agree with that scenario, there's no need to retire the FM band, nor to replace it with DAB.

DAB should be used as an extra band to carry extra, more niche services from smaller broadcasters.

To increase listener choice and ownership plurality - both of which the BAI are obliged to do.

But don't.

Andy From Sligo · 08-11-2019 4:08pm

in the world of Digital , FM is just so antiquated now. cannot beat the quality of Digital whether it be music or voice listening to or pictures as in video or photography.

if there is to be a FM / Digital service run side by side then I say put the 'all talk' shows on FM and all the other popular radio shows with music on DAB Radio. that's my view

Sam Russell · 08-11-2019 7:48pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

in the world of Digital , FM is just so antiquated now. cannot beat the quality of Digital whether it be music or voice listening to or pictures as in video or photography.

if there is to be a FM / Digital service run side by side then I say put the 'all talk' shows on FM and all the other popular radio shows with music on DAB Radio. that's my view

FM is a great format for radio, in that it gives great audio quality, can provide stereo, and has a reasonable range for transmission - not as good at range as AM (particularly LW) but can cope well with interference which AM cannot. Also FM receivers are as cheap as chips (sorry for the pun) and can live for ever on a couple of AA batteries. In the same way digital TV is the perfect transmission for TV as it gives fantastic picture quality, and since TVs are generally not portable, a decent directional aerial is always provided.

However, when digital is brought into play, no longer do broadcasters look to achieve the best quality audio, they strive to get as many channels as possible by restricting the bandwidth. Remember, s/n no longer applies as this is determined by the engineering design as digital allows the signal to be recovered to the original quality. If the quality was designed to be crap then so be it.

DAB is a solution to a problem that Ireland does not have. We do not need hundreds of local stations all pumping out the same drivel, 3rd rate pop music, or lists of funerals.

DAB is sold as a success in the UK because every radio sold in the UK is assumed to be used as a DAB radio, when it is more likely to be used as an FM radio. They have been fiddling the figures for years for some hidden reason.

DAB radios need a better aerial than FM because of the digital cliff effect - 'just about' is no good for DAB but is OK for FM. Batteries do not last in DAB radios, and DAB radios tend to be bulky and expensive.

Tigerandahalf · 08-11-2019 9:26pm

Thanks for the detail their Sam Russell.

Can ye expand on why DAB was to be used and what advantages it had versus analogue.

Are the radios in modern cars still the standard analogue type?

I always thought a downside was you couldn't listen into a local radio station if driving in the opposite end of the country.

I presume these will all be streamed into cars in the future.

Sam Russell · 08-11-2019 9:38pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Thanks for the detail their Sam Russell.

Can ye expand on why DAB was to be used and what advantages it had versus analogue.

Are the radios in modern cars still the standard analogue type?

I always thought a downside was you couldn't listen into a local radio station if driving in the opposite end of the country.

I presume these will all be streamed into cars in the future.

I understand the biggest advantage of DAB vs analogue was that manufacturers of radios sold many more radios at much higher prices.

FM radios in cars are generally RDS types that retune as you go out of range. Most UK spec cars like to include DAB but most of Ireland is out of range of DAB.

Local radio should be receivable in most places, but it is local to where you are. Kerry radio for Kerry, and Mayo radio for Mayo. That is what makes it local.

The trouble with streaming is someone has to pay for the broadband fees.

Tigerandahalf · 08-11-2019 11:13pm

I'd imagine in time you will pay for a single broadband package that will cover your home, phone and car, etc.

Mearings · 08-11-2019 11:59pm

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Johnboy1951 · 09-11-2019 12:30am

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Hehehehehe ..... you think?

galtee boy · 09-11-2019 12:48am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I'd imagine in time you will pay for a single broadband package that will cover your home, phone and car, etc.

Even now, with big data allowances on most mobile phone packages, its possible to stream/bluetooth internet radio for hours every day without exceeding your allowance. I do it with BBC Five Live and BBC Radio 4 most days, and if you want to listen to Mayo local radio in Cork, same thing. DAB would have been nice, but there's always another way.

99nsr125 · 09-11-2019 12:55am

god's toy wrote: »

...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.

Ridiculous,

What they should do is shut down the Dublin office and relocate to Letrim, it's media, they broadcast they can be anywhere

Sam Russell · 09-11-2019 12:24pm

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

You mean the way they stopped selling TVs that could not receive Saorview but still said they were 'Digital Enabled', and HD ready when they were not.

Most Irish supermarkets (the ones that are British supermarkets) just sell what they sell over there and assume they will work here. You could put it down to ignorance or that they just do not care.

Sam Russell · 09-11-2019 12:31pm

99nsr125 wrote: »

Ridiculous,

What they should do is shut down the Dublin office and relocate to Letrim, it's media, they broadcast they can be anywhere

I like the way you pre-announce the content of your suggestion.

How will they interview Gov ministers from Leitrim if the Gov ministers are in Dublin - by mobile phone? How will they have audiences for programmes like The Late Late Show or Claire Live - bus them all up to Leitrim, or fly them into Leitrim international Airport? How will they attract A list celebrities - put them up in the Drumshambo Hilton?

The cost of shifting the electronics and cables and transmission kit from Donneybrook to Cork would be horrendous, and that might make some sense, but to Leitrim? Why not the Arran Islands or Tory Island?

If it was such a good idea, why did TV3 not set up in Leitrim?

As you say Ridiculous.

Zird · 09-11-2019 1:27pm

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Lol, I saw expensive Roberts DAB sets for sale in Galway city in 2006, 13 years later and no dab signal was ever transmitted around Galway city or county.

Zird · 09-11-2019 1:36pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Backwards indeed - I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?

:rolleyes:

StreetLight · 09-11-2019 1:56pm

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Why? FreeDAB have only just started on DAB and, unlike RTE, they actually want to be there.

Elvis Hammond · 09-11-2019 1:59pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

... I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?

They closed a load of smaller TV transmitters at switchover. They're not going to build a new band III network for DAB.

Charles Babbage · 09-11-2019 2:03pm

galtee boy wrote: »

Even now, with big data allowances on most mobile phone packages, its possible to stream/bluetooth internet radio for hours every day without exceeding your allowance. I do it with BBC Five Live and BBC Radio 4 most days, and if you want to listen to Mayo local radio in Cork, same thing. DAB would have been nice, but there's always another way.

That's fine, but if everyone starts streaming radio all the time the entire network will be pointlessly cluttered with this rather than distinctive Internet applications.

Tigerandahalf · 09-11-2019 3:55pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

That's fine, but if everyone starts streaming radio all the time the entire network will be pointlessly cluttered with this rather than distinctive Internet applications.

That is why 5g is being launched...cars will be driving themselves. Streamimg a radio station will be a small matter.

Mickey Mike · 09-11-2019 4:40pm

We had an outcry when RTE tried to close LW and with no success. I wonder will we have an outcry about the closure of the digital radio channels? I don't think so.

Mickey Mike · 09-11-2019 4:46pm

And whatever radios we buy now, it doesn't matter if it has MW, LW, SW or DAB, just as long it has good oul FM. Internet radio is becoming very popular too.

marno21 · 09-11-2019 5:53pm

Mickey Mike wrote: »

And whatever radios we buy now, it doesn't matter if it has MW, LW, SW or DAB, just as long it has good oul FM. Internet radio is becoming very popular too.

I have a 2015 car with no LW or DAB. Thankfully down here we have BBC R4 on MW (756) so it negates the need for LW somewhat, although the 198 signal would be clearer.

Many cars build between 2005 and 2011 or so I tried in the past had horrendous AM reception, with many not functioning at all when the engine was running. Some recent cars I've tried have very good AM reception even in fringe areas.

lgs 4 · 09-11-2019 7:36pm

. In principle, this is quite wrong as DAB is inherently supposed to provide better quality audio compared to FM radio. Users receive poor quality sound mainly because the digital radio stations they’re listening to might have overdone sound compression to an extent that the sound quality falls below that of analogue radio. This means the bit rate levels they might have used fell below 192kbit/s, which is the standard set by the BBC Research and Development team as the preferred bit rate for a high fidelity stereo broadcast.
https://radiofidelity.com/dab-vs-fm-radio/.

What's is needed is for stations to up there bit rate to 192kbit or higher .To allow for sound quality drop off with lower bit rates .Due to the amount audio compression To promote CD quality sound and of course the transmission network.

reslfj · 09-11-2019 9:19pm

I have not followed DAB development in Ireland for a number of years now.

What does the current - pre this RTÉ announcement - DAB network look like ?

- Transmitters ?
- DAB muxes ?
- RTÉ stations ?

http://www.wohnort.org/dab/ireland.html seems updated - is it?

Will any RTÉ or not-RTÉ DAB/DAB+ muxes survive including possible local muxes?

Lars

ethernet · 06-03-2021 3:03pm

Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere just yet.

RTÉ will cease transmission of its radio services on the Digital Audio Broadcast (DAB) network on March 31st this year. RTÉ's digital radio services – RTÉ Gold, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ Pulse, and RTÉjr Radio – will remain available.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

marclt · 06-03-2021 5:15pm

ethernet wrote: »

Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere just yet.

RTÉ will cease transmission of its radio services on the Digital Audio Broadcast (DAB) network on March 31st this year. RTÉ's digital radio services – RTÉ Gold, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ Pulse, and RTÉjr Radio – will remain available.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

Given the penetration of Sky across the country, will RTÉ put the additional services on that platform?

Johnboy1951 · 06-03-2021 7:13pm

marclt wrote: »

Given the penetration of Sky across the country, will RTÉ put the additional services on that platform?

Not behind a Sky paywall like the present channels I would hope.

Of course if they were to go on the Astra Satellites as FTA that would be a different matter ..... but I would not expect them to do so.

The Oort Cloud · 06-03-2021 7:48pm

If RTE do take down their Dab channels then you can still get them on internet radio but the Bit Rate for instance on rte gold is only 96 kbps. I wonder will they take it down from internet radio as well?. It would make you think why rte even stream it on 96 kbps, it defeats the purpose of quality audio streaming that low.

Cuttlefish · 07-03-2021 2:23pm

Can someone tell me why DAB never really took off here in Ireland?

Is DAB still popular in the UK? Is see cars online being sold with DAB radio

It is a pity as I did like using my DAB radios of which I have three as well as my Evoke and Roberts internet radios

I wouldn't be surprised if RTE eventually pull their services elsewhere too!!

Sam Russell · 07-03-2021 2:39pm

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Can someone tell me why DAB never really took off here in Ireland?

Is DAB still popular in the UK? Is see cars online being sold with DAB radio

It is a pity as I did like using my DAB radios of which I have three as well as my Evoke and Roberts internet radios

I wouldn't be surprised if RTE eventually pull their services elsewhere too!!

The fact that only RTE were on DAB and DAB was only available in Dublin Limerick and Cork, and not in-between, it was useless for a car, and inconvenient for the home listener who wants to hop between stations. Radios in general have band selection first, then station selection, which is a pain if the radio, like my Roberts, has you cycling through all the bands to get to the one you want. If all FM stations had to be on DAB, it might have worked.

Also, they screwed down the quality so it was sub VHF quality, and DAB radios were expensive, and were heavy on power so battery operation was out. They added DAB+, which would be great but it was launched late on and some radios had it and some did not, so they wasted bandwidth providing both.

Apart from that, what was not to like.

The difference between analogue and digital is that, with analogue, the engineers struggle with signal to noise and go to great lengths to keep it as good as they can, while with digital, the signal to noise is in the basic design and is bandwidth dependent - more bandwidth, more quality, less channels, and so the bean counters can set the parameters to give the best return and to hell with the quality.

The Oort Cloud · 07-03-2021 11:58pm

In late 2020 it was announced that all DAB radio transmissions would be shut down the following year due to low usage numbers for the service. On 2nd March, 2021 it was confirmed that the service would be terminated at the end of that month.

The reason why there was low usage numbers was obviously because there was no competition or other stations on DAB and all we had was rte channels only. If we had much more music channels on the DAB+ system I think it would have had more usage numbers. RTE again using excuses to shut the whole system down. Ireland is the only country to shut down DAB while the rest of the E.U continues to roll out DAB+.

Legislation has been in place since 2009 to enable commercial broadcasters to engage with DAB but the broadcasting regulator has not addressed the issue of establishing a regulatory framework to date.

I blame not only RTE, I blame all radio stations that are trying to keep a monopoly, especially RTE. It was made abundantly clear recently that Irish radio stations will never be shut down from using FM. You cannot fit much more radio stations onto the FM band as it is full already, so that kills competition for other new stations coming on the scene.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

Cuttlefish · 08-03-2021 12:20am

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

I blame not only RTE, I blame all radio stations that are trying to keep a monopoly, especially RTE. It was made abundantly clear recently that Irish radio stations will never be shut down from using FM. You cannot fit much more radio stations onto the FM band as it is full already, so that kills competition for other new stations coming on the scene.

So with a full FM spectrum there can't be any more Irish radio stations BUT with DAB there could have been more??

I always thought going digital as in DAB was the way forward, hell what do I know!

Charles Slane · 08-03-2021 1:49am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not behind a Sky paywall like the present channels I would hope.

Of course if they were to go on the Astra Satellites as FTA that would be a different matter ..... but I would not expect them to do so.

RTE's radio services (Radio 1, 2FM, Lyric FM and R na G) are NOT behind a paywall on Sky. They are broadcast free-to air on Astra 2E from 11914H (27500 5/6).

The Oort Cloud · 08-03-2021 2:28am

This list is just for any-one that is interested in what audio Bit Rate quality to expect while receiving the DAB stations on Internet radio. RTE will be broadcasting all of their DAB stations on Internet radio and TV, these will not be taken down.

RTE Lyric: - 160 kbps Reasonably decent audio quality... 160 kbps on DAB
RTE Gold: - 96 kbps Very low audio quality... 128 kbps on DAB
RTE 2xm: - 96 kbps Very low audio quality... 128 kbps on DAB
RTE 2fm: - 160 kbps Reasonably decent audio quality... 128 kbps on DAB
RTE Pulse: - 96 kbps Very low audio quality... 128 kbps on DAB
RTE Radio 1 - 96 kbps Very low audio quality... 128 kbps on DAB
RTE Radio 1 Extra - 96 kbps... 80 kbps on DAB

96 kbps just doesn't cut it as the audio quality is worse than using Frequency Modulation (FM) Surely if RTE can stream 160 kbps over internet then you would think they would stream all of their radio stations at 160 kbps.

watty · 08-03-2021 9:38am

Even 160 kbps is worse than FM. You need 192 and ideally 256.
What about Dab+? Simply used to double the number of channels and 64k dab+ is not quite as good as 128K DAB, but 128K DAB+ is as good as 256 K.

If you have poor hearing the artefacts sound worse because the compression is relying on properties of hearing. It's lossy compression.

Ergonomics: Most DAB sets use x4 electricity and don't have enough FM channel memories, no AM and awkward menus. Onten no real volume control.

What about the spectrum saving of a SFN? It needs the entire mux to be national stations only. Places where FM is turned off or depreciated are due to favouring big national networks with loads of channels. It's useless for local radio.

Also if it's a niche station the internet streaming makes more sense. Broadcast only makes sense for mass market. Really DAB was ill designed and now duplicated by DVB-T. You can get a DVB-T stick under €10 for a laptop. They can work in theory on a phone or tablet. Many phones and tablets have the FM tuner built-in on the BT-WiFi chip. Apple disables it because the 3.5mm jack cable is usually the aerial.

160 kbps is NOT reasonably decent. It's a poor minimum. It's penny-pinching.

Also coverage is an issue with DAB. For car and portable use the UK experience shows that DAB TX plan was too optimistic. To have FM coverage (which still isn't as good as Five Live MW or R4 LW) they would need hundreds of low power fill-in transmitters.

The entire concept of Digital radio for Broadcast compared to AM and FM is an inherent failure. The FM band could easily have been extended down to 65MHz (add OIRT and Japan bands). A €10 converter for existing sets and also many sets made since the 1980s to now cover at least 76 MHz to 108 MHz (and some in the past down to 45 MHz for USA TV sound). Virtually all current FM Chips cover from 76 MHz.

Also 20 MHz of Band III could have been added for local/community stations instead of DAB. Again some sets actually cover 175 MHz to 195MHz and a converter/adaptor could retail under €10.

For home use you can add a €45 DVB-T box (or satellite box) and one of the €6 to €15 legal FM transmitters intended to connect a phone or MP3 player to a car radio to have the Digital Radio on any FM set. Or a 12V powered DVB-T box in a car.

So DAB was a pointless RTE ego trip. The Norwegian adoption is political.

The Oort Cloud · 08-03-2021 11:20am

Using the lower band of FM radio might be an issue especially in the 84 to 85Mhz band as this is where the emergency frequencies are used ambulance/fire/river rescue. Even though these frequencies used are in 12.5 khz narrow band, a high powered radio station transmitting at 50/100 khz could cause bleed-over onto the emergency frequencies. So unless they cut out the 84Mhz band only then they could have used the lower FM band I would think.

The Norwegian adoption is political.

Can you explain this one Watty?.

Johnboy1951 · 08-03-2021 11:24am

watty wrote:

For home use you can add a €45 DVB-T box (or satellite box) and one of the €6 to €15 legal FM transmitters intended to connect a phone or MP3 player to a car radio to have the Digital Radio on any FM set. Or a 12V powered DVB-T box in a car.

But DVB-T or DVB-S, at 128 kb/s, is well below your stated minimum.

160 kbps is NOT reasonably decent. It's a poor minimum. It's penny-pinching.

I guess there is no 'decent' or 'good' Irish radio transmission at all?
BBC Radio 1 on DVB-S is 192 kb/s.

1huge1 · 08-03-2021 11:36am

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

The reason why there was low usage numbers was obviously because there was no competition or other stations on DAB and all we had was rte channels only. If we had much more music channels on the DAB+ system I think it would have had more usage numbers. RTE again using excuses to shut the whole system down. Ireland is the only country to shut down DAB while the rest of the E.U continues to roll out DAB+.

Legislation has been in place since 2009 to enable commercial broadcasters to engage with DAB but the broadcasting regulator has not addressed the issue of establishing a regulatory framework to date.

I blame not only RTE, I blame all radio stations that are trying to keep a monopoly, especially RTE. It was made abundantly clear recently that Irish radio stations will never be shut down from using FM. You cannot fit much more radio stations onto the FM band as it is full already, so that kills competition for other new stations coming on the scene.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

I think everything you said above is fair and on point.

But just to take another view for a second, a significant proportion of new cars are coming with android auto/apple carplay and others that integrate their smart phones into their dashboard. Similarly, many people have access to internet radio in multiple rooms in their houses due to the advent of smart speakers. let alone the likes of laptops, smartphones, tv's etc.

I think the future of FM/DAB is likely under a much larger threat from the above to be honest as the range of stations/podcasts/music streaming will be far beyond what could be offered through FM/DAB.

Glaceon · 08-03-2021 12:03pm

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

Using the lower band of FM radio might be an issue especially in the 84 to 85Mhz band as this is where the emergency frequencies are used ambulance/fire/river rescue. Even though these frequencies used are in 12.5 khz narrow band, a high powered radio station transmitting at 50/100 khz could cause bleed-over onto the emergency frequencies. So unless they cut out the 84Mhz band only then they could have used the lower FM band I would think.

There certainly would need to be a reshuffle. I personally have found several taxi radios around 78-84 MHz around these parts.

Antenna · 08-03-2021 12:26pm

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

Using the lower band of FM radio might be an issue especially in the 84 to 85Mhz band as this is where the emergency frequencies are used ambulance/fire/river rescue. Even though these frequencies used are in 12.5 khz narrow band, a high powered radio station transmitting at 50/100 khz could cause bleed-over onto the emergency frequencies. So unless they cut out the 84Mhz band only then they could have used the lower FM band I would think.

Can you explain this one Watty?.

Emergency services migrating to TETRA so those low-VHF frequencies are made idle.

Notice the long aerials that used to be on fire brigades etc are now removed (in most areas of the country)

It is the case that the low-band VHF spectrum has become more and more disused over the past several years, businesses that used to have long-range 2-way radio abandoned them as using mobile phones instead, and emergency services migrating to TETRA. Other former users of low-VHF such as one example the ESB have all stopped using this spectrum ages ago.

The Oort Cloud · 08-03-2021 12:57pm

Antenna wrote: »

Emergency services migrating to TETRA so those low-VHF frequencies are made idle.

Notice the long aerials that used to be on fire brigades etc are now removed (in most areas of the country)

It is the case that the low-band VHF spectrum has become more and more disused over the past several years, businesses that used to have long-range 2-way radio abandoned them as using mobile phones instead, and emergency services migrating to TETRA. Other former users of low-VHF such as one example the ESB have all stopped using this spectrum ages ago.

The above is incorrect Antenna. There was a meeting recently in regard to moving Dublin city emergency frequencies to the Tetra platform and NAS (National Ambulance Service) wanted this to happen but the regulators decided that Dublin city emergency transmissions were to continue using the 84Mhz band for the future, so they will not be removing these frequencies. In saying this, the Dublin emergency frequencies using the 84Mhz band also use the Tetra network also, they use both. The National ambulance service out-side of Dublin uses only Tetra while the greater Dublin area will continue to use the 84Mhz band for the forseeable future.

DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

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