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DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

rlogue

WestBriton informs me that he obtained good DAB reception on a portable DAB radio in the foothills of the Dublin mountains.

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Trick of the Tail

Well I don't agree with that scenario, there's no need to retire the FM band, nor to replace it with DAB.

DAB should be used as an extra band to carry extra, more niche services from smaller broadcasters.

To increase listener choice and ownership plurality - both of which the BAI are obliged to do.

But don't.

Andy From Sligo

in the world of Digital , FM is just so antiquated now. cannot beat the quality of Digital whether it be music or voice listening to or pictures as in video or photography.

if there is to be a FM / Digital service run side by side then I say put the 'all talk' shows on FM and all the other popular radio shows with music on DAB Radio. that's my view

Sam Russell

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

in the world of Digital , FM is just so antiquated now. cannot beat the quality of Digital whether it be music or voice listening to or pictures as in video or photography.

if there is to be a FM / Digital service run side by side then I say put the 'all talk' shows on FM and all the other popular radio shows with music on DAB Radio. that's my view

FM is a great format for radio, in that it gives great audio quality, can provide stereo, and has a reasonable range for transmission - not as good at range as AM (particularly LW) but can cope well with interference which AM cannot. Also FM receivers are as cheap as chips (sorry for the pun) and can live for ever on a couple of AA batteries. In the same way digital TV is the perfect transmission for TV as it gives fantastic picture quality, and since TVs are generally not portable, a decent directional aerial is always provided.

However, when digital is brought into play, no longer do broadcasters look to achieve the best quality audio, they strive to get as many channels as possible by restricting the bandwidth. Remember, s/n no longer applies as this is determined by the engineering design as digital allows the signal to be recovered to the original quality. If the quality was designed to be crap then so be it.

DAB is a solution to a problem that Ireland does not have. We do not need hundreds of local stations all pumping out the same drivel, 3rd rate pop music, or lists of funerals.

DAB is sold as a success in the UK because every radio sold in the UK is assumed to be used as a DAB radio, when it is more likely to be used as an FM radio. They have been fiddling the figures for years for some hidden reason.

DAB radios need a better aerial than FM because of the digital cliff effect - 'just about' is no good for DAB but is OK for FM. Batteries do not last in DAB radios, and DAB radios tend to be bulky and expensive.

Tigerandahalf

Thanks for the detail their Sam Russell.

Can ye expand on why DAB was to be used and what advantages it had versus analogue.

Are the radios in modern cars still the standard analogue type?

I always thought a downside was you couldn't listen into a local radio station if driving in the opposite end of the country.

I presume these will all be streamed into cars in the future.

Sam Russell

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Thanks for the detail their Sam Russell.

Can ye expand on why DAB was to be used and what advantages it had versus analogue.

Are the radios in modern cars still the standard analogue type?

I always thought a downside was you couldn't listen into a local radio station if driving in the opposite end of the country.

I presume these will all be streamed into cars in the future.

I understand the biggest advantage of DAB vs analogue was that manufacturers of radios sold many more radios at much higher prices.

FM radios in cars are generally RDS types that retune as you go out of range. Most UK spec cars like to include DAB but most of Ireland is out of range of DAB.

Local radio should be receivable in most places, but it is local to where you are. Kerry radio for Kerry, and Mayo radio for Mayo. That is what makes it local.

The trouble with streaming is someone has to pay for the broadband fees.

Tigerandahalf

I'd imagine in time you will pay for a single broadband package that will cover your home, phone and car, etc.

Mearings

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Johnboy1951

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Hehehehehe ..... you think?

galtee boy

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I'd imagine in time you will pay for a single broadband package that will cover your home, phone and car, etc.

Even now, with big data allowances on most mobile phone packages, its possible to stream/bluetooth internet radio for hours every day without exceeding your allowance. I do it with BBC Five Live and BBC Radio 4 most days, and if you want to listen to Mayo local radio in Cork, same thing. DAB would have been nice, but there's always another way.

99nsr125

god's toy wrote: »

...And it's a Good bye RTE Digital Radio, We Hardly Knew Ye.

Ridiculous,

What they should do is shut down the Dublin office and relocate to Letrim, it's media, they broadcast they can be anywhere

Sam Russell

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

You mean the way they stopped selling TVs that could not receive Saorview but still said they were 'Digital Enabled', and HD ready when they were not.

Most Irish supermarkets (the ones that are British supermarkets) just sell what they sell over there and assume they will work here. You could put it down to ignorance or that they just do not care.

Sam Russell

99nsr125 wrote: »

Ridiculous,

What they should do is shut down the Dublin office and relocate to Letrim, it's media, they broadcast they can be anywhere

I like the way you pre-announce the content of your suggestion.

How will they interview Gov ministers from Leitrim if the Gov ministers are in Dublin - by mobile phone? How will they have audiences for programmes like The Late Late Show or Claire Live - bus them all up to Leitrim, or fly them into Leitrim international Airport? How will they attract A list celebrities - put them up in the Drumshambo Hilton?

The cost of shifting the electronics and cables and transmission kit from Donneybrook to Cork would be horrendous, and that might make some sense, but to Leitrim? Why not the Arran Islands or Tory Island?

If it was such a good idea, why did TV3 not set up in Leitrim?

As you say Ridiculous.

Zird

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Lol, I saw expensive Roberts DAB sets for sale in Galway city in 2006, 13 years later and no dab signal was ever transmitted around Galway city or county.

Zird

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Backwards indeed - I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?

:rolleyes:

StreetLight

Mearings wrote: »

I presume all Irish supermarkets, electrical outlets etc will withdraw DAB/DAB+ radios, including those combined with FM.

Why? FreeDAB have only just started on DAB and, unlike RTE, they actually want to be there.

Elvis Hammond

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

... I wonder why they couldnt have retired analogue FM radio altogether over here like they retired analogue TV and 'forced' people to change over to digital to pick up the TV stations ?

They closed a load of smaller TV transmitters at switchover. They're not going to build a new band III network for DAB.

Charles Babbage

galtee boy wrote: »

Even now, with big data allowances on most mobile phone packages, its possible to stream/bluetooth internet radio for hours every day without exceeding your allowance. I do it with BBC Five Live and BBC Radio 4 most days, and if you want to listen to Mayo local radio in Cork, same thing. DAB would have been nice, but there's always another way.

That's fine, but if everyone starts streaming radio all the time the entire network will be pointlessly cluttered with this rather than distinctive Internet applications.

Tigerandahalf

Charles Babbage wrote: »

That's fine, but if everyone starts streaming radio all the time the entire network will be pointlessly cluttered with this rather than distinctive Internet applications.

That is why 5g is being launched...cars will be driving themselves. Streamimg a radio station will be a small matter.

Mickey Mike

We had an outcry when RTE tried to close LW and with no success. I wonder will we have an outcry about the closure of the digital radio channels? I don't think so.

Mickey Mike

And whatever radios we buy now, it doesn't matter if it has MW, LW, SW or DAB, just as long it has good oul FM. Internet radio is becoming very popular too.

marno21

Mickey Mike wrote: »

And whatever radios we buy now, it doesn't matter if it has MW, LW, SW or DAB, just as long it has good oul FM. Internet radio is becoming very popular too.

I have a 2015 car with no LW or DAB. Thankfully down here we have BBC R4 on MW (756) so it negates the need for LW somewhat, although the 198 signal would be clearer.

Many cars build between 2005 and 2011 or so I tried in the past had horrendous AM reception, with many not functioning at all when the engine was running. Some recent cars I've tried have very good AM reception even in fringe areas.

lgs 4

. In principle, this is quite wrong as DAB is inherently supposed to provide better quality audio compared to FM radio. Users receive poor quality sound mainly because the digital radio stations they’re listening to might have overdone sound compression to an extent that the sound quality falls below that of analogue radio. This means the bit rate levels they might have used fell below 192kbit/s, which is the standard set by the BBC Research and Development team as the preferred bit rate for a high fidelity stereo broadcast.
https://radiofidelity.com/dab-vs-fm-radio/.

What's is needed is for stations to up there bit rate to 192kbit or higher .To allow for sound quality drop off with lower bit rates .Due to the amount audio compression To promote CD quality sound and of course the transmission network.

reslfj

I have not followed DAB development in Ireland for a number of years now.

What does the current - pre this RTÉ announcement - DAB network look like ?

- Transmitters ?
- DAB muxes ?
- RTÉ stations ?

http://www.wohnort.org/dab/ireland.html seems updated - is it?

Will any RTÉ or not-RTÉ DAB/DAB+ muxes survive including possible local muxes?

Lars

ethernet

Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere just yet.

RTÉ will cease transmission of its radio services on the Digital Audio Broadcast (DAB) network on March 31st this year. RTÉ's digital radio services – RTÉ Gold, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ Pulse, and RTÉjr Radio – will remain available.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

marclt

ethernet wrote: »

Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere just yet.

RTÉ will cease transmission of its radio services on the Digital Audio Broadcast (DAB) network on March 31st this year. RTÉ's digital radio services – RTÉ Gold, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Radio 1 Extra, RTÉ Pulse, and RTÉjr Radio – will remain available.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/

Given the penetration of Sky across the country, will RTÉ put the additional services on that platform?

Johnboy1951

marclt wrote: »

Given the penetration of Sky across the country, will RTÉ put the additional services on that platform?

Not behind a Sky paywall like the present channels I would hope.

Of course if they were to go on the Astra Satellites as FTA that would be a different matter ..... but I would not expect them to do so.

The Oort Cloud

If RTE do take down their Dab channels then you can still get them on internet radio but the Bit Rate for instance on rte gold is only 96 kbps. I wonder will they take it down from internet radio as well?. It would make you think why rte even stream it on 96 kbps, it defeats the purpose of quality audio streaming that low.

Cuttlefish

Can someone tell me why DAB never really took off here in Ireland?

Is DAB still popular in the UK? Is see cars online being sold with DAB radio

It is a pity as I did like using my DAB radios of which I have three as well as my Evoke and Roberts internet radios

I wouldn't be surprised if RTE eventually pull their services elsewhere too!!

Sam Russell

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Can someone tell me why DAB never really took off here in Ireland?

Is DAB still popular in the UK? Is see cars online being sold with DAB radio

It is a pity as I did like using my DAB radios of which I have three as well as my Evoke and Roberts internet radios

I wouldn't be surprised if RTE eventually pull their services elsewhere too!!

The fact that only RTE were on DAB and DAB was only available in Dublin Limerick and Cork, and not in-between, it was useless for a car, and inconvenient for the home listener who wants to hop between stations. Radios in general have band selection first, then station selection, which is a pain if the radio, like my Roberts, has you cycling through all the bands to get to the one you want. If all FM stations had to be on DAB, it might have worked.

Also, they screwed down the quality so it was sub VHF quality, and DAB radios were expensive, and were heavy on power so battery operation was out. They added DAB+, which would be great but it was launched late on and some radios had it and some did not, so they wasted bandwidth providing both.

Apart from that, what was not to like.

The difference between analogue and digital is that, with analogue, the engineers struggle with signal to noise and go to great lengths to keep it as good as they can, while with digital, the signal to noise is in the basic design and is bandwidth dependent - more bandwidth, more quality, less channels, and so the bean counters can set the parameters to give the best return and to hell with the quality.

The Oort Cloud

In late 2020 it was announced that all DAB radio transmissions would be shut down the following year due to low usage numbers for the service. On 2nd March, 2021 it was confirmed that the service would be terminated at the end of that month.

The reason why there was low usage numbers was obviously because there was no competition or other stations on DAB and all we had was rte channels only. If we had much more music channels on the DAB+ system I think it would have had more usage numbers. RTE again using excuses to shut the whole system down. Ireland is the only country to shut down DAB while the rest of the E.U continues to roll out DAB+.

Legislation has been in place since 2009 to enable commercial broadcasters to engage with DAB but the broadcasting regulator has not addressed the issue of establishing a regulatory framework to date.

I blame not only RTE, I blame all radio stations that are trying to keep a monopoly, especially RTE. It was made abundantly clear recently that Irish radio stations will never be shut down from using FM. You cannot fit much more radio stations onto the FM band as it is full already, so that kills competition for other new stations coming on the scene.

https://about.rte.ie/2021/03/02/rte-to-cease-dab-transmission-digital-radio-services-to-remain/