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The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    david23 wrote: »
    RTE's January 2015 bid to be on UK national DAB failed because they were part of the losing (L2D) bid for the licence. There were only two bidders, the licence was awarded to the Sound Digital group, and RTE were not part of their line up.

    There are two empty slots available on the national Digital 1 DAB multiplex in the UK, following the departure of Planet Rock, Absolute 80s & Premier Christian Radio (Capital has taken one of them). This multiplex reaches 91% of the UK population, and RTE could lease capacity on this multiplex by negotiating a price with Digital 1's owners Arqiva.

    Nobody outside of RTE knows what happened with the Manchester mini-mux (which is only a low power trial service). RTE were part of the proposed line up but never joined.

    In the UK DAB receivers are now selling for 20 pounds upwards. John Lewis has just launched an own brand kitchen radio for 40 pounds.

    DAB is available to small scale stations in the UK on the new mini muxes, using open source software. There are ten of these being trialled, and legislation for full licences is due to be on the statute book next year.

    In the longer term that would be the way to go, but RTÉ's ineffectiveness on getting on any UK multiplex militates against it. I believe that if RTÉ had the cop-op to accept the BBC's offer of free placing on Irish DAB then getting RTÉ on to one of the UK national DAB multiplexes wouldn't have been an issue.

    A fair swap and low or no cost? That would pay for a few more taxis in and out of Montrose, and would give Irish DAB a selling point, which frankly it doesn't have right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    no you tell us. you made the claim about the listenership not justifying the costs, so it's up to you to back it up

    Ok. I'll feed the troll. It's not up to me to supply any figures about DAB. Why would it be?
    The person who asked the question knows that these figure's aren't available to us which is why they asked the question.
    However, going by the messages I've seen on various forums, the listenership figures must be considerably more than for 252. I guess that since they are using sites shared with other RTE services, the cost will be lower than the LW facility.

    All of which is irrelevant anyway. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the justify the existence of DAB.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    LW can carry digital (DRM) of FM quality and the LW 252 network is already upgraded. But as in the the early days of DAB receivers were expensive and energy hungry. This is changing with the development of software defined radios - SDR's. that work on open platforms such as the Samsungs Galaxy and demonstrated at this years Amsterdam media show

    A bit of a spurious argument really.
    Are you suggesting that these people, who we are informed cannot even afford a DAB radio and are not tech savvy enough to use internet radio, should listen to RTE via DRM?
    And do you believe the SNR required for reliable DRM reception will be good enough in the remoter parts of Ireland and in GB, in particular London?
    Not a chance, even on 261 KHz the signal in London won't be adequate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    A bit of a spurious argument really. Are you suggesting that these people, who we are informed cannot even afford a DAB radio te.

    Nobodys suggested that but what would be the point ?

    RTE is not available on DAB anywhere in Mainland Britain, Continental Europe most of Northern Ireland and around half of the Republic.

    A DAB radio isint going to help anyone hear RTE radio one.

    DAB is a red herring. This thread is about longwave.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    A bit of a spurious argument really.
    Are you suggesting that these people, who we are informed cannot even afford a DAB radio and are not tech savvy enough to use internet radio, should listen to RTE via DRM?
    And do you believe the SNR required for reliable DRM reception will be good enough in the remoter parts of Ireland and in GB, in particular London?
    Not a chance, even on 261 KHz the signal in London won't be adequate.

    I can answer that point. I took part in the DRM tests on 252 and received it clearly at my home in NW London using a very deaf Coding Technologies receiver attached to my laptop. I used a simple length of bell wire as the antenna and picked up the signal loud and clear despite the signal being much weaker and interfered with by Algeria late at night.

    So yes DRM would work far better than Analogue LW even in weak spots like London.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Odd that. I know several people who had very poor results, both in and around London and in Ireland.
    You were lucky I guess.
    Its also odd that you say reception at night is weaker.
    As I'm sure you know, LW is stronger and carries further at night due to less absorbsion by the D layer.
    ????

    As a matter of interest , at what times did you receive it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭wnolan1992


    IMO, the "elderly people can't use new technology!" argument is null and void. They don't because there's an alternative. Take away the alternative, they'll adapt. If my 88 year old grandmother who never used a mobile phone or computer was able to learn to use Sky+ to watch TV after the analogue switch off, anyone should be capable of learning to tune a DAB radio, or listen via an app. As said earlier in the thread, a €50 smart phone and €20 a month to 3 will get you unlimited data. Phone can be setup in a corner, plugged in so it never switches off, giant RTE Player app logo in the middle of the screen, you're never more than 3-4 presses away from hearing what you want. Elderly people are not stupid. They have the capacity to learn these things, there is just no incentive while the comfortable alternative exists.

    Therefore, IMO, the only argument that stands up here is coverage. I'd imagine a lot of the people listening to LW are in areas where broadband/3G/4G coverage is also pretty patchy. It would be interesting to have independent statistics as to how many people listen in to service, then you could weigh up whether or not it's value for money. As is, we're all just pissing in the dark because there could be 100,000 people listening, there could be 100. And of those listening, 99% might have a viable alternative, or 1%.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    wnolan1992 wrote: »
    IMO, the "elderly people can't use new technology!" argument is null and void. They don't because there's an alternative. Take away the alternative, they'll adapt. If my 88 year old grandmother who never used a mobile phone or computer was able to learn to use Sky+ to watch TV after the analogue switch off, anyone should be capable of learning to tune a DAB radio, or listen via an app. As said earlier in the thread, a €50 smart phone and €20 a month to 3 will get you unlimited data. Phone can be setup in a corner, plugged in so it never switches off, giant RTE Player app logo in the middle of the screen, you're never more than 3-4 presses away from hearing what you want. Elderly people are not stupid. They have the capacity to learn these things, there is just no incentive while the comfortable alternative exists.

    Therefore, IMO, the only argument that stands up here is coverage. I'd imagine a lot of the people listening to LW are in areas where broadband/3G/4G coverage is also pretty patchy. It would be interesting to have independent statistics as to how many people listen in to service, then you could weigh up whether or not it's value for money. As is, we're all just pissing in the dark because there could be 100,000 people listening, there could be 100. And of those listening, 99% might have a viable alternative, or 1%.


    RTÉ and BBC do a deal swapping free DAB access into each other's networks, problem effectively solved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    All this discussion about what elderly people are or are not capable of doing is another red herring.

    We've already established that listenership to 252KHz is not the sole preserve of the elderly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭wnolan1992


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    All this discussion about what elderly people are or are not capable of doing is another red herring.

    We've already established that listenership to 252KHz is not the sole preserve of the elderly.

    Agreed, hence the need to actually analyse how many people cannot receive the service by other means.
    For instance, how much would the money spent on LW benefit the DAB or FM network? Eliminate FM blackspots by pumping the money saved from switching off LW into more FM transmitters would be my suggestion anyway.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    wnolan1992 wrote: »
    Eliminate FM blackspots by pumping the money saved from switching off LW into more FM transmitters would be my suggestion anyway.

    To build and operate enough FM transmitters to cover all of Northern Ireland AND Mainland Britain (not to mention the places on the continent which can receive 252) Even if (and its a massive "if") the UK authorities would agree to it would cost more than ALL RTE's existing transmission platforms and make the cost of the longwave service look like absolute peanuts.

    Longwave is surprisingly cost effective at covering a large area.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    RTÉ and BBC do a deal swapping free DAB access into each other's networks, problem effectively solved.

    RTÉ's DAB coverage is pitiful in Ireland. It wouldn't be much of a deal for the BBC even if the idea was a runner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    RTÉ's DAB coverage is pitiful in Ireland. It wouldn't be much of a deal for the BBC even if the idea was a runner.

    2rn's DAB suffers from a chicken and egg like problem - RTÉ Gold isn't going to drive demand for DAB radios in the Republic, hence stalled coverage. BBC Radio 5 live would - but RTÉ seemingly aren't keen to encourage that. Negotiating free coverage for RTÉ Radio in the UK as a swap would be ideal, probably won't happen knowing the hidebound nature of RTÉ's attitudes - but no harm in putting the suggestion out there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Yes, just ask Atlantic 252. ;-)

    Oh hang on..........

    Edit.
    Its not cost effective if its only being listened to by a few hundred people. Even if its a few thousand, as suggested by the survey, its still not cost effective.

    2nd edit
    What's the population of an average small town in Ireland? A few thousand?? If it cost 250,000 to service a radio transmitter for that town it would be considered not good value. An FM transmitter to service a much larger area costs a good deal less.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Walter2016


    Forget about DAB - its a white elephant. It will hang about, but it has been superceded by internet.

    Anyone who's really interested in listening to irish radio whilst abroad will choose Internet due to the choice available.

    And yes elderly "vulnerable" people can access the Internet. Funny how its just younger people with an issue that call the elderly "vulnerable" - my 87 year old mother would clobber someone who dared to call her that. - She Skypes my sister, uses email daily and has her own netflix club with other 80+ "vulnerables".

    As before, it wasn't missed when it was Atlantic 252 and that was before internet! so why the sudden interest?

    Political!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Ok. I'll feed the troll. It's not up to me to supply any figures about DAB. Why would it be?
    The person who asked the question knows that these figure's aren't available to us which is why they asked the question.

    I don't know. I'm a recently former family carer living in Donegal. You seem to have pulled figures out of your bum regarding LW listenership and I challenged you on that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Walter2016 wrote: »
    Forget about DAB - its a white elephant. It will hang about, but it has been superceded by internet.

    Anyone who's really interested in listening to irish radio whilst abroad will choose Internet due to the choice available.

    And yes elderly "vulnerable" people can access the Internet. Funny how its just younger people with an issue that call the elderly "vulnerable" - my 87 year old mother would clobber someone who dared to call her that. - She Skypes my sister, uses email daily and has her own netflix club with other 80+ "vulnerables".

    As before, it wasn't missed when it was Atlantic 252 and that was before internet! so why the sudden interest?

    Political!

    Not everyone has the money to pay for an uncapped internet sub and the tech necessary. If that is a political position then may I offer you and the comfortable people with the Netflix subs some more cake?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Banjoxed wrote:
    I don't know. I'm a recently former family carer living in Donegal. You seem to have pulled figures out of your bum regarding LW listenership and I challenged you on that.


    No, you didn't challenge me on that. You asked me what the figures are for the DAB transmitters.
    I didn't "pull figures out of my bum" as you so eloquently put it.
    The figures regarding the costs of maintaining 252 are freely available. The listener figures were what sources in the industry believed. Even if the survey is to be believed, listeners to 252 would still be only in the low 1000's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,144 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Walter2016 wrote: »
    Forget about DAB - its a white elephant. It will hang about, but it has been superceded by internet.

    Anyone who's really interested in listening to irish radio whilst abroad will choose Internet due to the choice available.

    And yes elderly "vulnerable" people can access the Internet. Funny how its just younger people with an issue that call the elderly "vulnerable" - my 87 year old mother would clobber someone who dared to call her that. - She Skypes my sister, uses email daily and has her own netflix club with other 80+ "vulnerables".

    As before, it wasn't missed when it was Atlantic 252 and that was before internet! so why the sudden interest?

    Political!

    and? just because some elderly can and are able to grasp whatever doesn't mean others can and do. not their fault but it's life, some find things easier or more difficult then others. therefore your anecdotal story really means nothing.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    No, you didn't challenge me on that. You asked me what the figures are for the DAB transmitters.
    I didn't "pull figures out of my bum" as you so eloquently put it.
    The figures regarding the costs of maintaining 252 are freely available. The listener figures were what sources in the industry believed. Even if the survey is to be believed, listeners to 252 would still be only in the low 1000's.

    Interesting. So "the industry" looked into its heart, if you prefer, and the listening figures for LW252, and especially those from outside the 26 counties, floated magically into their view. That would explain the irritation that contrary reports seem to have caused.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Hey, if you can supply us with the figures to contradict me, I'm all ears.
    The survey that was linked to earlier suggests that the listenrship in the UK to 252 is less than 3000. It Ireland it may be a few hundred.
    If you have a more reliable source for the figures, please share.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Banjoxed wrote:
    and especially those from outside the 26 counties, floated magically into their view.


    Yes, the survey that was carried out that put the listeners at less than 3000.
    Have you overlooked that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Atlantic 252. ;-).

    A commercial radio station aimed at the UK which loct audience to newly established more local stations. Not a valid comparison
    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    An FM transmitter to service a much larger area costs a good deal less.

    There's not an FM transmitter in the world which can service an area as large as a single longwave transmitter. It takes dozens of FM transmitters to serve Ireland alone.
    the survey that was carried out that put the listeners at less than 3000
    The only surveys into 252 listenership have covered the Republic or Ireland and among Irish expats in mainland Britain. None covering Northern Ireland, Continental Europe or non-Irish listeners


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Yes, the survey that was carried out that put the listeners at less than 3000.
    Have you overlooked that?

    Noreen Bowden hasn't. http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/generation-emigration/rt%C3%A9-longwave-radio-a-proven-lifeline-for-elderly-irish-in-britain-1.2678455?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Walter2016


    None of the cheerleaders have explained how there was no issue when 252 was a commercial pop station which was before the age of internet?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Walter2016 wrote: »
    None of the cheerleaders have explained how there was no issue when 252 was a commercial pop station which was before the age of internet?

    Back then RTE was available on medium wave. 252 was a replacement service when MW was scrapped.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Stasi 2.0 wrote:
    A commercial radio station aimed at the UK which loct audience to newly established more local stations. Not a valid comparison


    It is a valid comparison. LW was losing listeners. More so now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Stasi 2.0 wrote:
    There's not an FM transmitter in the world which can service an area as large as a single longwave transmitter. It takes dozens of FM transmitters to serve Ireland alone.


    Oh ffs . Its the number of listeners that's the issue.
    This is getting stupid now.

    If you really have no idea what your talking about, please don't reply.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    It was a commercial radio station which lost market share to more local market entrants -just like Radio Luxembourg its parent company. Hardly a valid comparison with a national "public service" broadcaster

    If you really have no idea what your talking about, please don't reply.
    From a poster who thinks Its possible to cover the UK, Ireland, Belgium and Holland with a single FM transmitter ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Back then RTE was available on medium wave. 252 was a replacement service when MW was scrapped.

    Indeed. My earliest memories of radio in London in the late 1960s was of RTE Radio on MW530 from Athlone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Stasi 2.0 wrote:
    From a poster who thinks Its possible to cover the UK, Ireland, Belgium and Holland with a single FM transmitter ?


    What the **** are you talking about?
    I've started to realise that your just a troll as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Stasi 2.0 wrote:
    It was a commercial radio station which lost market share to more local market entrants -just like Radio Luxembourg its parent company. Hardly a valid comparison with a national "public service" broadcaster


    Your hilarious stasi. People stopped listening to LW.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    What the **** are you talking about?
    I've started to realise that your just a troll as well.

    You suggested RTE could broadcast on FM to those currently served by 252 and I pointed out that the cost of doing so would be prohibitive (and that's not even taking into account the considerable regulatory and technical barriers involved) If you think I'm trolling take it up with the mods -otherwise try and be civil.
    Your hilarious stasi.

    Sure why are you responding to a "troll" ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Banjoxed wrote:
    Indeed. My earliest memories of radio in London in the late 1960s was of RTE Radio on MW530 from Athlone.


    I guess you now listen on FM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    I guess you now listen on FM.

    I'm in Donegal and travel to Edinburgh and London. FM while I'm in coverage, 252 when I'm not in FM coverage.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    252 when I'm not in FM coverage.

    What's RTE FM coverage like in London :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    What's RTE FM coverage like in London :D

    Well, quite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Sunday tomorrow and we don't bother with the Archers omnibus and some other BBC Radio 4 LW stuff on Sundays so its slide the dial over to 252 LW for the morning. Can't get RTE on FM so its LW or nothing, certainly not putting on the satellite TV or a computer to listen to RTE of a morning, which leads me on to this crap I keep reading about listening on the internet. I don't want to be running a computer and sound system to listen to the RADIO and I really don't want to be listening to the RADIO on a mobile phone with a earphone stuck in my ear I just want to listen to it on a RADIO. A few watts of electric usage or battery and a user can listen to LW with a RADIO but listening to it with a mobile phone or the internet is just not the same. If the radio can't get LW anymore I won't be listening to anything on RTE.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,744 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    my3cents wrote: »
    The UK! I listen to BBC Radio 4 on LW in Ireland most of the time.

    http://www.radioplayer.co.uk/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Odd that. I know several people who had very poor results, both in and around London and in Ireland.
    You were lucky I guess.
    Its also odd that you say reception at night is weaker.
    As I'm sure you know, LW is stronger and carries further at night due to less absorbsion by the D layer.
    ????

    As a matter of interest , at what times did you receive it?
    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Odd that. I know several people who had very poor results, both in and around London and in Ireland.
    You were lucky I guess.
    Its also odd that you say reception at night is weaker.
    As I'm sure you know, LW is stronger and carries further at night due to less absorbsion by the D layer.
    ????

    As a matter of interest , at what times did you receive it?

    Ok. I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible without getting too technical, as I suspect you don't have a huge knowledge of how radio signals are generated and the properties of the various broadcast bands.

    Firstly it is impossible to replace 252 with either a single FM or DAB transmitter. VHF Band 2 (FM) and VHF Band 3 (DAB) generally don't travel much more than 100 miles from their transmission sites due to the fact that the Ionosphere above the earth does not refract (bounce) these signals. Therefore it would be technically impossible to broadcast a single FM or DAB station from Ireland that could be reliably received in the whole of Britain. Of course there is the issue of Sporadic E and tropospheric ducting that extends reception at times of high weather pressure but these are not frequent occurrences so to build such a transmitter would be technically impossible. Ask your friendly local radio experimenter!

    On the other hand, signals in the AM broadcast bands can bounce off the ionosphere at night and reception is extended. You asked why I claimed Radio 1 was weaker at night. Here's why.

    RTÉ and Atlantic before them always reduced the transmitter power at night. This was a licencing requirement in order to reduce interference to Radio Algeria Chaine 3, also broadcasting on 252. Originally Algeria used 500kw of power but now uses 1500kw in the daytime and 750kw at night.

    RTÉ Radio 1 was broadcast at 300kw in the daytime and 150kw at night. This meant for me in London that Algeria used to blot out RTÉ at nighttimes. That was when the signal from RTÉ was at full power. What I found with the DRM signals from RTÉ was that although Algeria was quite audible on analogue AM, the RTÉ DRM signal could still break through.

    The RTÉ DRM tests went out at different times. I did get good daytime reception as well and even on the Morphy Richards DAB portable, which was notoriously difficult to feed with a good enough signal.

    Of course RTÉ have been broadcasting to Britain since 1926, and especially so since 1932 when the famous Athlone station came on the air. 252 only carried Radio 1 after Atlantic and TeamTalk radio closed, and once 252 was established the 531m frequency from Tullamore (successor to Athlone) was closed.

    Banjoxed suggests Radio 1 could be on UK DAB. That would be nice but as we have seen from the Manchester Debacle RTÉ seem to struggle to get the UK regulators to allow them on the air in such a relatively small way. Imagine the difficulties if not impossibilities of getting RTÉ on national UK DAB.

    It's far better for RTÉ to control their own broadcasts. They hold a licence to broadcast Radio 1 on 252 at 300kw daytime and 150kw at night. It's technically possible for a DRM and analogue signal to go out at the same time too.

    Fuzzy Clam you seem interested in Radio, can I make a friendly suggestion to find out where your local radio club is and take out an Amateur Radio licence. You will make many new friends and will gain a clear understanding how radio works.

    You won't regret it!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    kleefarr wrote: »

    Thanks but that misses the point that I can wake up to Radio 4 LW on a Roberts clock radio and can listen to it all day on another LW radio. My main computer burns about 100W to connect me to the the same thing a small and portable unit can do while burning less than 5W.

    My internet connection is a little more complicated than most and is running 24/7 but I still don't want to listen in one room on the internet I want to listen in any room I'm in and often outside in the garden on a Radio. One simple low powered device that tunes into a radio signal is all I need and the way I'd prefer to listen to the Radio.

    I really don't want to listen on a system that is using 20 times more electricity than it needs or one that needs charging up everyday. A radio is a simple household item and listening to the radio doesn't need to be made any more complicated than switching on errr a radio.

    I'm here now connecting to the internet and posting this from a netbook (not my main computer) because I still like to use Boards.ie with a full keyboard available to me and not a tiny touch screen . Using Boards.ie is easier for me with a computer with a keyboard in the same way to listening to the radio is easier with a radio.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    my3cents wrote: »
    I'm here now connecting to the internet and posting this from a netbook (not my main computer) because I still like to use Boards.ie with a full keyboard available to me and not a tiny touch screen . Using Boards.ie is easier for me with a computer with a keyboard in the same way to listening to the radio is easier with a radio.

    That's interesting but I'm not convinced any of it justifies an annual 6 figure spend by RTE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 savelongwave


    Thanks Logue No2 and My3cents

    Like others I enjoy BBC Radio 4 on my pocket sized Roberts Sports running for week on two AA batteries.
    Useful in the car or the park or during the night under the pillow may I say.

    I feel the younger Bloggers are out of touch with what the older generation take for granted.

    I listened to 567 MW in London in the late 50's.
    Later Tullamore boosted that service to 500kW from the 100kW that Athlone used. Senders Free Berlin was a cochannel problem at night but that station is now closed.
    An unwritten understanding between regulatory authorities was abandoned when RTE was jammed by Spectrum using 558kHz.
    Its an accepted fact that one does not use an adjacent channel in planning transmitter coverage.
    In fairness to RTE they were prepared to swap one of their frequencies with the agreement of the UK as a solution but that wasnt a runner.
    The UK could have used the Spectrum allocation in Birmingham or elsewhere along the east cost without any problem where the Tullamore signal was stronger.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Graham wrote: »
    That's interesting but I'm not convinced any of it justifies an annual 6 figure spend by RTE.

    RTE spent nearly half a million euro on taxis alone last year. Nearly double the LW transmission costs.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Logue no2 wrote: »
    RTE spent nearly half a million euro on taxis alone last year. Nearly double the LW transmission costs.

    If any of that transport costs is unnecessary it should also be cut.

    I'm not sure 'but they use taxis' is any more of a justification for keeping long wave than my3cents not wanting to use his laptop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,144 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    What the **** are you talking about?
    I've started to realise that your just a troll as well.

    debunking your "it is what it is because i said so" posts isn't trolling i'm afraid.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Graham wrote: »
    If any of that transport costs is unnecessary it should also be cut.

    I'm not sure 'but they use taxis' is any more of a justification for keeping long wave than my3cents not wanting to use his laptop.

    Let's be clear Graham. The 252 service isnt aimed at you if you live in range of RTE's FM transmissions. I don't and many hundreds of thousands of Irish abroad don't either.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Logue no2 wrote: »
    Let's be clear Graham. The 252 service isnt aimed at you if you live in range of RTE's FM transmissions. I don't and many hundreds of thousands of Irish abroad don't either.

    I don't doubt that you are right, it's just unfortunate that nowhere near enough of those 'hundreds of thousands' listen to RTE LW in the volumes required to make it commercially viable/sustainable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Logue no2


    Graham wrote: »
    I don't doubt that you are right, it's just unfortunate that nowhere near enough of those 'hundreds of thousands' listen to RTE LW in the volumes required to make it commercially viable/sustainable.

    If everything broadcast had to be commercially viable as you put it then we not have Raidio na Gaeltachta or TG4. RTÉ aren't a commercial broadcaster, they are a public service broadcaster with a unique remit to serve the Irish abroad.

    Have you read the Broadcasting Act 2009? It doesn't demand that RTÉ provide a commercially justifiable service to the Irish abroad, just a service.

    If RTÉ took the Act seriously we wouldn't be having this debate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,144 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Graham wrote: »
    I don't doubt that you are right, it's just unfortunate that nowhere near enough of those 'hundreds of thousands' listen to RTE LW in the volumes required to make it commercially viable/sustainable.

    well it's no different to much of what rte provide, which isn't commercially viable but socially and educationally necessary. 252 is socially necessary to bring a vital link from the motherland to the uk and further, so the irish abroad can have a link to the motherland of eire, to home.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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