The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

Fuzzy Clam

Logue no2 wrote: »

Oh and while I'm at it. Saorsat. Developed by RTÉ at great expense to explicitly stop people like me watching free to air satellite tv from Ireland. Viewership said to be in the low hundreds. Should RTÉ bin that?

OK........
Saorsat was developed to stop people "like you" watching RTE.
This thread gets funnier with every post.
You're a clown.

Nonoperational

Nonoperational wrote: »

Mind blowing 14 pages. LW is done. Get the internet.

So is the OP!

The arguments for keeping LW252 are very weak. The number of people in Ireland availing of the service makes it nonviable.

People who emigrate for whatever reason need to immerse themselves in their new homes and cultures and stop looking over their shoulders at the ould sod. I'm sure they have phones, Skype and Facetime to keep in touch with family.

my3cents

marno21 wrote: »

my3cents,

Where do you live to say you have poor RTE FM reception?

Middle of Waterford on the coast. Stuck in the bottom of a valley, no mbb, no fixed line broadband, no terrestrial TV and no LOS to any of the local WiFi providers. I can get RTE on FM if I make more effort than I can be bothered with but not on the main radio in its usual position in the kitchen. LW works with just the usual tuning and (traditional) turn of the radio to align the internal ferrite rod antenna.

Connect here via a convoluted system of mbb and a WiFi link and get TV via satellite.

I'd be a bit old fashioned about LW on the bases for me its been a service that has always just worked. Sunday while typing this I can hear LW 252 in the background - sounds like bagpipes.

Banjoxed

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

OK........
Saorsat was developed to stop people "like you" watching RTE.
This thread gets funnier with every post.
You're a clown.

Funny, RTE's technical people could have achieved that objective with a FTV card on the existing Sky system. But they really had to design something entirely new to achieve exactly the same result!

And yet, you seem really angry that a system that requires no cost to the user to receive continues. It's alright, it seems, for RTÉ to spaff money reinventing the wheel, but alright to have an existing audience cut adrift without having to invest money they don't necessarily have. Funny that.

hytrogen

savertelw252 wrote:

Longwave is amazing good value for money but RTE pretend it's some sort of severe burden. What about the real waste in RTE? Some years ago, (around the same time that MW 567 & 729 were closed down) they spent millions of Euros to recruit Colin Hayes from the independent radio sector, Mr Hayes never had any impact on ratings for them but what do they do in the weeks after they announce the closure of lw in 2014? They repeat the exact mistakes of the past by spending millions of euros to recruit Ray D'Arcy who like Colin Hayes has gone on to have no impact on ratings

Please campaign for this audit rather than lw252 & elderly

Fuzzy Clam

hytrogen wrote:

I say let them lose lw252 & bring back radio caroline, that's the only reason they plugged 252 to drown out the non-conforming alternative revolution for so long. Bloody Angeles drowning out the 6o'clock rock report too!

Radio Caroline are still on, sort of. Tune in to 1368 KHz this weekend.

Alun

my3cents wrote: »

I don't want to be running a computer and sound system to listen to the RADIO and I really don't want to be listening to the RADIO on a mobile phone with a earphone stuck in my ear I just want to listen to it on a RADIO.

If only someone would invent a radio that you could connect to the internet, they could call it an "Internet Radio", they'd make their fortune ... oh, wait ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Internet-Radios/b?ie=UTF8&node=310195011

Fuzzy Clam

Banjoxed wrote: »

And yet, you seem really angry that a system that requires no cost to the user to receive continues.

I'm angry???
Show me any post I've made that indicates I'm angry. EDIT. Oh. Ive just reread your post......I'm apparently really angry :-)

As I said, this thread gets funnier with each post.

Oh, and are you going to supply us with the listenership figures and cost of the RTE DAB transmitters?
I'm only asking because you seem to think it's relevant to the thread and End of the road wants to know.

Fuzzy Clam

Banjoxed wrote: »

Funny, RTE's technical people could have achieved that objective with a FTV card on the existing Sky system. But they really had to design something entirely new to achieve exactly the same result!

Is that right?

RTE designed it........OK!

lertsnim

Banjoxed wrote: »

So, reinventing the DSAT wheel with Saorsat, hidden testcard channels for no discernible reason on Saorview and double the LW bill on taxis alone are fine, but LW isn't. Fascinating.

What DSAT wheel was reinvented? LW is obsolete. Time for you all to move on and stop using old people as a stick to beat your drum.

Banjoxed wrote: »

Funny, RTE's technical people could have achieved that objective with a FTV card on the existing Sky system. But they really had to design something entirely new to achieve exactly the same result!

Do you know how much a FTV card scheme would cost? Clearly not.

ED E

Logue no2 wrote: »

But Internet radio isn't free radio in the sense that it costs nothing to receive provided you have to right equipment. Many people have capped Internet services, especially mobile and a couple of hours of Internet Radio will soon chew up that cap.

Bull****.

54MB /Hr approx at full quality. Lowest monthly cap nowadays is a 2GB phone package, thats 37Hrs but realistically nobody has that now and most people are at 30GB or above so thats 555Hrs per month.

Stasi 2.0

ED E wrote: »

Lowest monthly cap nowadays is a 2GB phone package.

o2 (UK) phone packages start at 100Meg per month (0.1 GB)

my3cents

ED E wrote: »

Bull****.

54MB /Hr approx at full quality. Lowest monthly cap nowadays is a 2GB phone package, thats 37Hrs but realistically nobody has that now and most people are at 30GB or above so thats 555Hrs per month.

Thanks for doing the maths but the point of a radio is you don't need to do it in the first place.

We have LW on 24/7 on at least one radio, we don't switch it off just turn it down minimum it would be turned up from 6am till midnight. Why on earth would I want to pay for and use in excess of 30GB of data on having the radio on?

Fuzzy Clam

Logue no2 wrote: »

Ok. I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible without getting too technical, as I suspect you don't have a huge knowledge of how radio signals are generated and the properties of the various broadcast bands.


On the other hand, signals in the AM broadcast bands can bounce off the ionosphere at night and reception is extended. You asked why I claimed Radio 1 was weaker at night. Here's why.


Fuzzy Clam you seem interested in Radio, can I make a friendly suggestion to find out where your local radio club is and take out an Amateur Radio licence. You will make many new friends and will gain a clear understanding how radio works.

You won't regret it!

"On the contrary long waves are just surface waves. However, typically, a larger area can be covered by a long wave broadcast transmitter than a medium wave one at a parity of power. This is because ground-wave propagation suffers less attenuation due to limited ground conductivity at lower frequencies. Long waves can travel thousands of miles."

"For LongWave (<300 kHz) the propagation isn’t so much a bouncing off the ionosphere and earth’s surfave, but more like propagating in a big waveguide."

https://www.quora.com/How-far-do-longwave-radio-signals-travel

Somebody should join their local radio club.

Graham

my3cents wrote: »

Why on earth would I want to pay for and use in excess of 30GB of data on having the radio on?

To keep listening to RTÉ after LW is switched off I would have thought.

That was the topic under discussion until a couple of posters decided they'd rather make it all about how much they know about radio/DAB.

my3cents

Graham wrote: »

To keep listening to RTÉ after LW is switched off I would have thought.

That was the topic under discussion until a couple of posters decided they'd rather make it all about how much they know about radio/DAB.

Why would I bother to listen to RTE when LW is switched off. I only listen to it now as its easy to tune in and there isn't much choice.

If I have to bother to put the tele or computer on to get satellite radio (PC has a tuner card) or if I have to use the internet then I have a massive amount of choice and probably won't bother with RTE as a result.

As it I'll probably go with more BBC Radio 4 on LW and endure even more cricket - I like cricket but can only take so much.

my3cents

my3cents wrote: »

certainly not putting on the satellite TV or a computer to listen to RTE of a morning, which leads me on to this crap I keep reading about listening on the internet. I don't want to be running a computer and sound system to listen to the RADIO and I really don't want to be listening to the RADIO on a mobile phone with a earphone stuck in my ear I just want to listen to it on a RADIO. A few watts of electric usage or battery and a user can listen to LW with a RADIO but listening to it with a mobile phone or the internet is just not the same. If the radio can't get LW anymore I won't be listening to anything on RTE.

You just reminded me of a video I saw on the internet where someone used a GM/EMD V12 diesel engine from a locomotive to peel an apple. Sure it can do it, but it's terribly inefficient. I see internet radio in the same way.

Graham

Karsini wrote: »

You just reminded me of a video I saw on the internet where someone used a GM/EMD V12 diesel engine from a locomotive to peel an apple. Sure it can do it, but it's terribly inefficient. I see internet radio in the same way.

Internet radio is efficient for reaching a geographically diverse or very small listener base where traditional broadcast channels would prove too expensive/inefficient.

Logue no2

Graham wrote: »

Internet radio is efficient for reaching a geographically diverse or very small listener base where traditional broadcast channels would prove too expensive/inefficient.

So why not abandon RF completely and put all Irish radio entirely on the Internet if it's that impressive and the way forward etc.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

Internet radio is efficient for reaching a geographically diverse or very small listener base where traditional broadcast channels would prove too expensive/inefficient.

those of us who listen to internet radio are willing to seek out stations that cater to our tastes. i should think much of those who listen to 252 aren't going to bother with the hassle of seeking out rte via internet.
listen i love internet radio. i've discovered more stations then i can shake a stick at that cater to my taste. however i'm under no illusions that it can replace or be a substitute for terrestrial radio. not for the forseeable for most people anyway. i hope that does change as internet radio will offer more choice then terrestrial radio ever could even if it was willing to offer it.

Logue no2

ED E wrote: »

Bull****.

54MB /Hr approx at full quality. Lowest monthly cap nowadays is a 2GB phone package, thats 37Hrs but realistically nobody has that now and most people are at 30GB or above so thats 555Hrs per month.

Ok leaving aside the offensive bull**** comment - there are typically 730 hours in a month according to Google. So the Internet radio listener who has a cap has to keep a record of how many hours they have listened to the radio in order not to break their cap limit. And that's before they do things like downloading skateboarding duck videos from you tube or emailling documents or uploading photos.

Shifting listeners to the Internet might suit the bean counters in RTÉ or those of you in Ireland who don't give a toss about the Irish abroad or even parts of Northern Ireland where the RTÉ FM signal is poor, but from the regular listeners point of view it's the end of regular listening to RTÉ radio.

Graham

Logue no2 wrote: »

So why not abandon RF completely and put all Irish radio entirely on the Internet if it's that impressive and the way forward etc.

I'm sure it will happen at some point, for now the non-LW RTE broadcasts have the critical mass to keep them viable.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

I'm sure it will happen at some point, for now the non-LW RTE broadcasts have the critical mass to keep them viable.

as part of the public service obligation to those abroad, the service is viable

ghostdancer

Logue no2 wrote: »

Ok leaving aside the offensive bull**** comment - there are typically 730 hours in a month according to Google. So the Internet radio listener who has a cap has to keep a record of how many hours they have listened to the radio in order not to break their cap limit. And that's before they do things like downloading skateboarding duck videos from you tube or emailling documents or uploading photos.

Shifting listeners to the Internet might suit the bean counters in RTÉ or those of you in Ireland who don't give a toss about the Irish abroad or even parts of Northern Ireland where the RTÉ FM signal is poor, but from the regular listeners point of view it's the end of regular listening to RTÉ radio.

if they had to use their phone plan's data allowance to listen, then yes.

realistically, the majority of people living outside Ireland who listen via LW are likely in a perfectly normal internet capable area, so can listen via internet radio using their home broadband line without issue.



we're really getting to miniscule numbers of people who will actually be affected by this....

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

as part of the public service obligation to those abroad, the service is viable

RTE appear to be happy that internet radio meets those obligations.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

as part of the public service obligation to those abroad, the service is viable

This I don't get. Why should the Irish taxpayer be providing a radio station for people in other countries?

L1011

end of the road wrote: »

as part of the public service obligation to those abroad, the service is viable

What obligation?

You imagining a PSO does not mean there is one.

Logue no2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This I don't get. Why should the Irish taxpayer be providing a radio station for people in other countries?

That's Irish people in other countries. Ireland has a very large diaspora compared to many other countries and one key way to keep us all in touch since the 1930s has been RTÉ radio on am.

Logue no2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So is the OP!

The arguments for keeping LW252 are very weak. The number of people in Ireland availing of the service makes it nonviable.

People who emigrate for whatever reason need to immerse themselves in their new homes and cultures and stop looking over their shoulders at the ould sod. I'm sure they have phones, Skype and Facetime to keep in touch with family.

And this. From your posts you seem a big fan of Coronation Street, Great British Bake Off and Strictly. All British programmes. Would you like it if someone decided all you can watch is Irish made programmes?

Personally I'm a fan of Seascapes, Sunday Miscellany, Morning Ireland and Late Date as well as Sunday Sport. I am Irish, you will never take that away from me, and I like to listen to Irish radio.

Graham

Logue no2 wrote: »

I am Irish, you will never take that away from me, and I like to listen to Irish radio.

Is someone trying to take away your nationality? I understood we were discussing the ending of LW broadcasts while retaining an internet radio presence for the diaspora.