The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

Logue no2

Graham wrote: »

Is someone trying to take away your nationality? I understood we were discussing the ending of LW broadcasts while retaining an internet radio presence for the diaspora.

Read the quote above my post. In any case I am discussing keeping RTÉ LW for everybody. What you're discussing is your business.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

RTE appear to be happy that internet radio meets those obligations.

others aren't happy that internet radio meets those obligations. i can see their point and as said, i'm a big fan of internet radio myself.

Deleted User wrote: »

This I don't get. Why should the Irish taxpayer be providing a radio station for people in other countries?

because the broadcasting act requires it. and because it's good for irish abroad to have a link to the motherland.

L1011 wrote: »

What obligation?

You imagining a PSO does not mean there is one.

no but the fact they're is one means they're is one

ED E

Logue no2 wrote: »

That's Irish people in other countries. Ireland has a very large diaspora compared to many other countries and one key way to keep us all in touch since the 1930s has been RTÉ radio on am.

There are lots of things we had in the '30s that we dont have now. Thats call progress. Do you like that mains power coming into your house yeah? How about the use of a phone?

Logue no2 wrote: »

Ok leaving aside the offensive bull**** comment - there are typically 730 hours in a month according to Google. So the Internet radio listener who has a cap has to keep a record of how many hours they have listened to the radio in order not to break their cap limit. And that's before they do things like downloading skateboarding duck videos from you tube or emailling documents or uploading photos.

Shifting listeners to the Internet might suit the bean counters in RTÉ or those of you in Ireland who don't give a toss about the Irish abroad or even parts of Northern Ireland where the RTÉ FM signal is poor, but from the regular listeners point of view it's the end of regular listening to RTÉ radio.

You said:

a couple of hours

I said bull****. 37 or 555 could not be considered a "couple".

Taking 30GB as the cap even listening every waking hour (assuming 7hrs sleep/night) you'd still not burn a that cap at only 490hrs of listening. Even then the most die hard RTE fanboy or girl could not claim that they want 17hrs of Radio 1 content a day.

Ads pay part of RTEs budget, a big part. Advertisers wont pay for:
- Out of market listeners (UK dwellers wont be shopping in SuperValu)
- Listeners that are hard to enumerate.

LW is dead, its about time. Moan all you like but its sayonara.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

no but the fact they're is one means they're is one

is there one that specifies the broadcast must be RF/LW?

L1011

end of the road wrote: »

no but the fact they're is one means they're is one

So - there isn't one, except what you've invented in your head.

ED E

end of the road wrote: »

because the broadcasting act requires it. and because it's good for irish abroad to have a link to the motherland.

Respond to EOTR is like talking to your dead cat but anyways....

It requires they can listen, they can do so on the internet, until somebody takes them to the high court and wins theres zero obligation to keep 252 alive.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

because the broadcasting act requires it. and because it's good for irish abroad to have a link to the motherland.

I wasn't aware of this. Surely the age of needing to keep in touch with the ould sod by radio has been taken over by Skype, Facetime or the availability of Irish newspapers online.

Logue no2

Logue no2 wrote: »

And this. From your posts you seem a big fan of Coronation Street, Great British Bake Off and Strictly. All British programmes. Would you like it if someone decided all you can watch is Irish made programmes?

Personally I'm a fan of Seascapes, Sunday Miscellany, Morning Ireland and Late Date as well as Sunday Sport. I am Irish, you will never take that away from me, and I like to listen to Irish radio.

Being a thoroughly modern gal, I can watch or listen to what I like online!

lertsnim

Logue no2 wrote: »

And this. From your posts you seem a big fan of Coronation Street, Great British Bake Off and Strictly. All British programmes. Would you like it if someone decided all you can watch is Irish made programmes?

Personally I'm a fan of Seascapes, Sunday Miscellany, Morning Ireland and Late Date as well as Sunday Sport. I am Irish, you will never take that away from me, and I like to listen to Irish radio.

Your analogy debunks your whole argument. Even if the availability of the programmes you mentioned ceased via traditional means they are still there online. Irish radio will still be there after LW is shut down.

end of the road

lertsnim wrote: »

Your analogy debunks your whole argument. Even if the availability of the programmes you mentioned ceased via traditional means they are still there online. Irish radio will still be there after LW is shut down.

online requires one to seek out rte's programming. where as terrestrial radio requires one to simply turn on a radio and listen away. online is great but for most it is not an exceptable substitute to terrestrial radio for now at least. it may become one in the future with a bit of luck.

endagibson

So have we determined yet who these "vulnerable" are and how RTE are "hurting" them yet?

lertsnim

end of the road wrote: »

online requires one to seek out rte's programming. where as terrestrial radio requires one to simply turn on a radio and listen away.

You make it sound like it's a lot of work finding the RTÉ radio streams.

super_furry

RTE are making their radio stations available to everyone world wide via the internet. It's not their fault if people don't use that service.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Wow, I can't believe how unsympathetic people are towards people who don't know how to use technology which has only really existed in the mainstream for a decade. Not many people I know used podcasts or live streaming until the last few years. I certainly wouldn't want my grandmother to have to try and figure that out.

Crosby Gentle Stake

Crosby Gentle Stake wrote: »

Wow, I can't believe how unsympathetic people are towards people who don't know how to use technology which has only really existed in the mainstream for a decade. Not many people I know used podcasts or live streaming until the last few years. I certainly wouldn't want my grandmother to have to try and figure that out.

Don't underestimate your grandmother! I know 80 year olds and older who are well able to Facetime, download movies, read newspapers, etc. Where there's a will, there's a way.

lertsnim

Crosby Gentle Stake wrote: »

Wow, I can't believe how unsympathetic people are towards people who don't know how to use technology which has only really existed in the mainstream for a decade. Not many people I know used podcasts or live streaming until the last few years. I certainly wouldn't want my grandmother to have to try and figure that out.

People can learn, even old people. It is insulting to them when people suggest otherwise.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't underestimate your grandmother! I know 80 year olds and older who are well able to Facetime, download movies, read newspapers, etc.

so do i, i also know some who just can't grasp it no matter what.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where there's a will, there's a way.

not always

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

so do i, i also know some who just can't grasp it no matter what.

You will find some like that in every generation.

L1011

savelongwave wrote: »

LW can carry digital (DRM) of FM quality and the LW 252 network is already upgraded.

So "the vulnerable" who, according to you, many of whom have never used a landline phone, can move to DRM with its very expensive radios - all of which are usability nightmares and many of which aren't even on the market anymore?

I think we've caught an anorak who wants LW for its anorak properties rather than faux concern for "the vulnerable".

DRM is dead. LW is deader.

Banjoxed

The obvious advantage of LW252 as a means of distributing RTÉ Radio 1 in the UK is the very low cost to the user. A long wave capable radio costs under €25. The ongoing cost to the user then is then zero, except for infrequent changes of batteries.

For people who don't already have online access, there is the ongoing monthly cost of a broadband sub, plus the cost of any computer, Internet phone or internet radio. Plus a change of method of access. It isn't simply a case of the LW252 audience getting with the program. It would be nice if there was only a one off cost to upgrade to a portable solution, but the reality is that there isn't.

Logue no2

L1011 wrote: »

So "the vulnerable" who, according to you, many of whom have never used a landline phone, can move to DRM with its very expensive radios - all of which are usability nightmares and many of which aren't even on the market anymore?

I think we've caught an anorak who wants LW for its anorak properties rather than faux concern for "the vulnerable".

DRM is dead. LW is deader.

Faux concern? Nope. You're a troll looking for a rise. Onto the ignore list.

lertsnim

Logue no2 wrote: »

Faux concern? Nope. You're a troll looking for a rise. Onto the ignore list.

Stick your head in the sand and block out any opinion you disagree with? Grow up.

Logue no2

lertsnim wrote: »

Stick your head in the sand and block out any opinion you disagree with? Grow up.

I'm happy to debate anyone but I have very little tolerance for anyone behaving like a dick. ;-)

BHG

having read the thread i wont feed trolls so bring it on and I ignore you.

LW is on air. On low power. If it were on normal power I would have signal on 504khz in Dublin - but power is so low that signal is gone.
Has RTÉ explored the switch over options? I think where possible better quality RTE Radio 1 should be heard in UK.
this includes

1. put LW on legally allowable maximums now
2. tune to DSAT where possible
3. tune to Internet where affordable

But if you are in the car in the UK, I would suggest that LW is the best option. The internet is a multifaceted medium. LW is broadcast radio, one to many.

I have tried to listen to internet radio from Ireland on a phone in London. The bandwidth and QoS is just not there. Even if it was, it isn't an option for all. So LW is needed. and the power requirements need to be restored.

Radio is broadcasting. National stations are international broadcasters when the nearest neighbour has a very large diaspora.

LW can have a future, we must expose the myths RTE are pushing about LW as we heard them praise LW as they knifed MW only a few years back.

Restore LW power & audio quality on 252. Keep announcing LW 252 in ALL station waveband idents. Educate audience about alternatives. Sometimes there isn't a LW alternative. Broadcast on platforms suitable to ALL listeners. Remove the dismantlers in RTÉ.

edited 07:59 27/09/2016: minor typos

Stasi 2.0

BHG wrote: »

1. put LW on legally allowable maximums

At the moment they cant even do that as they scrapped a 500Kw transmitter in favour of a new 300KW one a few years back.

Logue no2

If saving money is the prime reason for RTÉ wanting to close 252 then I would suggest that they shut down their DAB transmissions. DAB might have worked in Ireland if it had extended radio choice and provided all commercial stations plus some key UK stations like BBC Radios 1-5, Classic FM and LBC. However it, like Saorsat, is another RTÉ white elephant. Closing DAB would free up funds for LW transmission.

The frequency does need to be moved to the quieter 261 kHz. This could be achieved with international agreement and given that it is a clear channel, agreement should not be an issue.

I want to address the first post on this thread:

savertelw252 wrote: »

RTE are SILL planning to cut off the elderly, the lonely, the sick and the isolated, a disgusting attack on our diaspora and on rural Ireland. WE MOST STOP THIS. We are planning a protest outside RTE Donnybrook on Monday October 31st at 2.52pm
Please follow us on twitter or Facebook to help #savertelw252

Whoever this poster was, they are not part of the save RTÉ LW campaign. It's clearly a deliberate hoax by someone who is motivated enough to want to undermine the campaign. I would love to know what IP address this was posted from.

Fuzzy Clam

Logue no2 wrote:

Whoever this poster was, they are not part of the save RTÉ LW campaign. It's clearly a deliberate hoax by someone who is motivated enough to want to undermine the campaign. I would love to know what IP address this was posted from.

And what good would having the IP address be to you Richard ?

Stasi 2.0

IP adresses are easily faked/spoofed/hidden these days and in any case an ISP is not going to identify a customer unless youre a cop with a court order/GCHQ or a Russian hacker.

Fuzzy Clam

Karsini wrote: »

You just reminded me of a video I saw on the internet where someone used a GM/EMD V12 diesel engine from a locomotive to peel an apple. Sure it can do it, but it's terribly inefficient. I see internet radio in the same way.

That's a very good analogy.
I could run a 1 KW AM transmitter, the equivalent of your old diesel engine, and cover the area of, say, a couple of large towns around here. Reception variable, especially at night.
Potential audience: maybe a couple of hundred thousand. In reality, a couple of dozen listeners at best.
Cost of this, excluding transmitter and aerial maintenance, over 5K a year.
Poor value.

On the other hand, an internet stream, the equivalent of an apple peeler, provides stereo audio and always on, will give me a potential audience of 1000's, maybe 10's of 1000's. Available all around the world.

Cost: Several hundred a year. Nothing in maintenance other than what I would be paying anyway.
Good value.

Now, multiply the costs it requires to supply that AM signal to a larger area, and assuming that the number of listeners is proportional, the value is still very poor.

Where the inefficiency really is, is not difficult to see.

former total

Logue no2 wrote: »

If saving money is the prime reason for RTÉ wanting to close 252 then I would suggest that they shut down their DAB transmissions. DAB might have worked in Ireland if it had extended radio choice and provided all commercial stations plus some key UK stations like BBC Radios 1-5, Classic FM and LBC. However it, like Saorsat, is another RTÉ white elephant. Closing DAB would free up funds for LW transmission.

The frequency does need to be moved to the quieter 261 kHz. This could be achieved with international agreement and given that it is a clear channel, agreement should not be an issue.

I want to address the first post on this thread:



Whoever this poster was, they are not part of the save RTÉ LW campaign. It's clearly a deliberate hoax by someone who is motivated enough to want to undermine the campaign. I would love to know what IP address this was posted from.

Just to confirm. RTE should have set up DAB, then filled it with rival stations from the commercial sector and the UK? Riiiight.

Saorsat is the TV equivalent of LW. A service that a tiny number of people are using and that RTE would drop in a heartbeat if it could. You cannot argue for the closure of Saorsat and the retention of LW in the same breath.

Your last paragraph is sheer, unbridled lunacy. Please tell me it's tongue-in-cheek.