Bike Park Ireland closed this weekend

prunudo · 20-05-2019 9:10pm

Good jib! wrote: »

Nothing on the website or FB.

How come they were only closed for the weekend? They hardly sorted out any insurance problems over the weekend. Or was it something else?

I don't think they are usually open mid week unless its prearranged. Certainly not the early half anyway.

CramCycle · 21-05-2019 9:06am

Good jib! wrote: »

Nothing on the website or FB.

How come they were only closed for the weekend? They hardly sorted out any insurance problems over the weekend. Or was it something else?

I presume its in the hope that they get a better quote next week. Would CI insurance cover this to an extent, as in make every person who goes in for the day a member of CI, maybe they could negotiate a deal with CI to make this a possibility.

Tenzor07 · 21-05-2019 10:05am

CramCycle wrote: »

I presume its in the hope that they get a better quote next week. Would CI insurance cover this to an extent, as in make every person who goes in for the day a member of CI, maybe they could negotiate a deal with CI to make this a possibility.

CI insurance would probably only cover the individual, however won't cover BPI the company against claims brought against it in court. You have to rely on the individual not to make a claim, and in a lot of cases that would work, but all it takes is for one person to make a claim and BPI will be paying out tens of thousands of €uro.
Same with club spins, a rider takes part in a MTB club spin, falls and breaks his arm, he could bring a claim to CI, but could also sue the club..

If you can like that Fine Gael TD put in a €60,000 claim for slipping off an indoor swing then you see the level of risk to organisations..

prunudo · 21-05-2019 10:10am

The case in that last paragraph sums up everything that is wrong with insurance and the claim culture in this country.

Peter T · 21-05-2019 10:39am

But isnt that how the guys in kerry and other uplift days operate ? Only CI members can attend

Good jib! · 21-05-2019 11:11am

How much is membership of CI? If it's too high, it'd be fairly off-putting for a lot of casual day-out-with-the-lads BPI users, which'd be a big dent in BPI's income.

And a shame for the sport in general, as that's how I'd imagine that's how, like myself, a lot of people get into MTB in the first place!

rizzodun · 21-05-2019 12:24pm

Good jib! wrote: »

How much is membership of CI? If it's too high, it'd be fairly off-putting for a lot of casual day-out-with-the-lads BPI users, which'd be a big dent in BPI's income.

And a shame for the sport in general, as that's how I'd imagine that's how, like myself, a lot of people get into MTB in the first place!

A leisure license is €40 for the year, extremely affordable. I doubt however it would stop some people from attempting to take BPI to the cleaners for something that the user should have already accepted may happen.

Insurers must think there's no money to be made in Ireland, or that at least for the effort they must put in to see a return.

As mentioned above, if you have elected Dail officials putting in personal injury claims (for falling off a swing ffs!) what hope have you of getting the government to make changes?

Peter T · 21-05-2019 12:25pm

135 per year racing, 56 per year leisure.http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/join-cycling-ireland

rizzodun · 21-05-2019 12:32pm

Peter T wrote: »

135 per year racing, 56 per year leisure.http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/join-cycling-ireland

Ah yeah, it went up slightly. Still plenty affordable.

Peter T · 21-05-2019 12:39pm

Yep, have the leisure licence myself. You'd spend that by blinking in a bike shop

CramCycle · 21-05-2019 1:48pm

If they were a club as well, they could offer the option of one day licences for "events". In this regard, what protects regular CI events organisers been taken to the cleaners by someone looking to sue? If BPI set up a BPI club, made all days there into leisure events, they could offer two options, one join CI if not already a member and have discounted rates for the rest of the year, or offer one day event insurance via CI. As the club and not the business organise it, it would be no different than if my club organised it, and simply "rented" the park from BPI the company.

I know there are gaping holes in my suggestion but I don't fully understand the whole insurance thing.

Tenzor07 · 21-05-2019 3:51pm

CramCycle wrote: »

If they were a club as well, they could offer the option of one day licences for "events". In this regard, what protects regular CI events organisers been taken to the cleaners by someone looking to sue? If BPI set up a BPI club, made all days there into leisure events, they could offer two options, one join CI if not already a member and have discounted rates for the rest of the year, or offer one day event insurance via CI. As the club and not the business organise it, it would be no different than if my club organised it, and simply "rented" the park from BPI the company.
I know there are gaping holes in my suggestion but I don't fully understand the whole insurance thing.

I'm sure there's some insurance experts around, but for BPI they have to be covered for any liabilities for persons on the premises, from slips and trips on and off the bike..

CI's insurers not CI have to deal with the claims..

Also can't ask individuals to take out one day licenses to come out on a spin..
Besides, clubs these days struggle to get members as whatsapp or facebook groups set up spins that way, so you have a group of lads going around casually, no club to sue!

rizzodun · 21-05-2019 5:53pm

Besides, it's not just BPI affected by this, there's a number of premises being forced to close because of our indemnity laws.

Judges can't award stupid sums of money if cases can't be taken.

A fundamental change is needed, just don't hold your breath.

Mr. Grieves · 22-05-2019 5:16pm

Out of interest, does anyone know Coillte's position regarding public liability insurance (for walkers as well as MTBers)?

charlieIRL · 22-05-2019 5:27pm

Just seen this on Facebook...

Latest Update on Trying to Reopen.

Firstly, we are quite simply overwhelmed with the support we are getting from everyone. It’s just amazing how a sudden closure of a small business can affect so many people in different ways and we are again truly sorry for all the inconvenience caused.
The latest news is that we are waiting to receive a final decision tomorrow morning from Insurance Company and if it’s good news we will be able to open up at the weekend. And if it’s not, then we will remain closed for another while.
We understand that there is quite a few people booked in for this weekend and if you can’t wait until tomorrow for a decision and need to make alternative plans in the next few days that’s no problem as we will naturally issue you a full refund.
Again, we are asking you for your patience and to cross all your fingers and hopefully we might get the green light tomorrow. As soon as we know, you will know.
Best regards,
Graham, Sandi and the BPI Team.
5pm Wednesday 22.5.19.

Ryath · 22-05-2019 5:30pm

Update on facebook page hopefully it works out.
https://www.facebook.com/bikeparkireland/

Firstly, we are quite simply overwhelmed with the support we are getting from everyone. It’s just amazing how a sudden closure of a small business can affect so many people in different ways and we are again truly sorry for all the inconvenience caused.
The latest news is that we are waiting to receive a final decision tomorrow morning from Insurance Company and if it’s good news we will be able to open up at the weekend. And if it’s not, then we will remain closed for another while.
We understand that there is quite a few people booked in for this weekend and if you can’t wait until tomorrow for a decision and need to make alternative plans in the next few days that’s no problem as we will naturally issue you a full refund.
Again, we are asking you for your patience and to cross all your fingers and hopefully we might get the green light tomorrow. As soon as we know, you will know.
Best regards,
Graham, Sandi and the BPI Team.
5pm Wednesday 22.5.19.

prunudo · 22-05-2019 6:17pm

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

Out of interest, does anyone know Coillte's position regarding public liability insurance (for walkers as well as MTBers)?

I'd say its only one big claim away from a sh!t storm.

CramCycle · 22-05-2019 8:15pm

jvan wrote: »

I'd say its only one big claim away from a sh!t storm.

They had one attempt and it was contested and thrown out AFAIK Sprained ankle, judge through it out under reasonable expectations.

prunudo · 22-05-2019 9:22pm

CramCycle wrote: »

They had one attempt and it was contested and thrown out AFAIK Sprained ankle, judge through it out under reasonable expectations.

That the experienced walker who tripped on the sleeper boardwalk. She was claiming because it was a structure it should be maintained like footpaths.

CramCycle · 22-05-2019 9:33pm

jvan wrote: »

That the experienced walker who tripped on the sleeper boardwalk. She was claiming because it was a structure it should be maintained like footpaths.

Exactly, and on appeal, the judge rightly ruled that there should be a level of expectation, particularly considering she was an experienced hiker.

We cover this in our H&S training at work, alot of these cases don't get through, and if they do it is because of cost/benefit for the insurer as judges aren't keen on awarding costs.

It does depend on the judge etc. but if appealed, the stupid ones often never make it through but without awarding costs.

Nonetheless, insurance companies here really don't want to touch them. A state backed insurer may be the answer, backed by involved government departments, to act in the interim until competitors come into the market. People would still have to pay but an easy cost analysis based on costs and awards over the previous 10 years would give reasonable numbers to work with, may even earn the government money through multiple avenues.

rizzodun · 22-05-2019 9:36pm

jvan wrote: »

That the experienced walker who tripped on the sleeper boardwalk. She was claiming because it was a structure it should be maintained like footpaths.

No, that was a cut on the knee sustained by falling on boardwalks on the Wicklow Way. Case was taken against the NPWS and she was awarded €40,000 which was overturned on appeal.

No idea who paid the costs though, I guess the NPWS still lost a lot of money and could have easily decided against appealing.

CramCycle · 22-05-2019 10:04pm

Basically both sides paid their own fees, the NPWS knew she'd appeal again if faced with their costs and the costs and because the judge suggested it, it wouldn't bode well if they didn't. ****ty for them but overall a better than expected result, I'm a fair world she and her solicitor would have been cleaned out of it.

xxyyzz · 23-05-2019 9:20am

From BPI's facebook page yesterday:

Latest Update on Trying to Reopen.

Firstly, we are quite simply overwhelmed with the support we are getting from everyone. It’s just amazing how a sudden closure of a small business can affect so many people in different ways and we are again truly sorry for all the inconvenience caused.
The latest news is that we are waiting to receive a final decision tomorrow morning from Insurance Company and if it’s good news we will be able to open up at the weekend. And if it’s not, then we will remain closed for another while.
We understand that there is quite a few people booked in for this weekend and if you can’t wait until tomorrow for a decision and need to make alternative plans in the next few days that’s no problem as we will naturally issue you a full refund.
Again, we are asking you for your patience and to cross all your fingers and hopefully we might get the green light tomorrow. As soon as we know, you will know.
Best regards,
Graham, Sandi and the BPI Team.
5pm Wednesday 22.5.19.

Large bottle small glass · 23-05-2019 9:29am

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

Out of interest, does anyone know Coillte's position regarding public liability insurance (for walkers as well as MTBers)?

You don't have a high duty of care to recreational users of your land.

Something that might be grounds for a case in say; a commercial yard where customers visit like a pothole/loose gravel/unprotected edge wouldn't be grounds for a case in the middle of a working wood to someone going for a walk/cycle etc.

An amendment to the law so that there is no liability in almost any circumstance on unenclosed land and all woodlands shouldn't be difficult to do.
That would open up most of our most scenic area to open access.

Coillte are running a very risky unprofessional game with their selling of hunting rights, and the Mickey Mouse controls in place to protect walkers/cyclist from large calibre rifles rounds.

I remember spending weeks hiking in Andes years ago and the very poor condition of foot bridges etc and thinking you couldn't let that happen in Ireland due to risks of claims. We need to get nearer to that; sure a few people will be hurt but 1000's more will get to enjoy our outdoors.

I bring my cx bike into wood more than mtb; I'm breaking Coillte rules on one but not the other

People don't really understand insurance. The mention of CI insurance being enough to cover BPI being a case in point. In most scenarios CII is close to useless. 150/week limit for being out of work, very low max payout(5000 I think) and proportional significant excess(500 I think).

drunkmonkey · 23-05-2019 10:21am

Started off running down hills at about 6yr's old.
Moved onto sliding down it on fertiliser bags in the snow
Graduated to cycling down on our BMX's
Now as an adult were not allowed cycle down the hills on bikes especially built for it using safety gear.

This is utterly bannanas. The council/leader or someone should be covering BPI's insurance on Tourism/Active lifestyle reasons.

Ryath · 23-05-2019 5:38pm

Today's Update

Still Down …. But not out!!
Unfortunately we will NOT be open this weekend 25th and 26th of May as the decision on our insurance hasn’t come through on time, which is very frustrating for us but especially for you. We need to make a decision on it now so that everyone that is booked in can try and rearrange to do something else. Anybody that is booked in will automatically receive a full refund and all membership ticket holders please remember that we will naturally extend your tickets for each week that has been lost.
Hopefully we will have better news next week.
Kind regards,
Graham, Sandi and the BPI Team.

prunudo · 23-05-2019 6:11pm

Ryath wrote: »

Today's Update

Thats not good, the longer it goes on the more I fear for its future.

covey123 · 23-05-2019 8:15pm

Anybody that is booked in will automatically receive a full refund and all membership ticket holders please remember that we will naturally extend your tickets for each week that has been lost.

Don't loose hope just yet

LollipopJimmy · 28-05-2019 3:06pm

I just went to book in for my first forray into mountain biking and discover this. What a load of ****e

prunudo · 28-05-2019 5:40pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I just went to book in for my first forray into mountain biking and discover this. What a load of ****e

Don't give up, where abouts are you based. There are other options if BPI are closed for a bit longer.

Bike Park Ireland closed this weekend

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