Bike Park Ireland closed this weekend

QueenMTBee

bogmanfan wrote: »

I don't remember the exact details, but there was a kid in court a few months back. Got a cut above his eye which left a 1-inch scar, which the judge noted was 100% covered by his eyebrow. He got around €30k

What about blaming the mother who decided to sue because her kid got a cut above his eye. Kids get bumps and scrapes all the time.

QueenMTBee

Anyway I'm done derailing this thread. I fully agree that the insurance and legal systems need to be revamped but the people of Ireland also need to change their entitled attitude about suing for everything and anything they can. If you saw the sh*t that comes across my desk every day.

iwillhtfu

Trickling down to the kids play grounds now and insurers refusing to cover certain sections.


Nore Valley Park

"It is with regret that we have to announce that our maze and the straw bounce are now closed until further notice.

Our insurers are no longer willing to cover it, and while we are trying our best to come to a resolution with them, it will remain closed for the foreseeable."

Why can't this just be nipped in the bud and some legislation brought in that makes people culpable for their own actions.

beauf

QueenMTBee wrote: »

Anyway I'm done derailing this thread. I fully agree that the insurance and legal systems need to be revamped but the people of Ireland also need to change their entitled attitude about suing for everything and anything they can. If you saw the sh*t that comes across my desk every day.

What I read and see is the same group of people with a lot of claims. Statistically this must be unlikely.

covey123

QueenMTBee wrote: »

I get that judges and insurance companies are partly to blame but why aren't you putting any blame at the door of the people claiming these exaggerating injuries? They don't have a gun to their head. They aren't all scrotes and scobies, they are "normal" people who see a way to make a quick buck. If people didn't make exaggerated claims and claim for dumb stuff they do then there would be no court case and no massive payout. The Joe Soap chancing their arm for some "free" money are equally at fault here.

Very true,the system in place at the moment does nothing to discourage these claims,but equally the onus is on the public to use a bit of cop on,the whole of society suffers when these claims are made

xxyyzz

QueenMTBee wrote: »

I get that judges and insurance companies are partly to blame but why aren't you putting any blame at the door of the people claiming these exaggerating injuries? They don't have a gun to their head. They aren't all scrotes and scobies, they are "normal" people who see a way to make a quick buck. If people didn't make exaggerated claims and claim for dumb stuff they do then there would be no court case and no massive payout. The Joe Soap chancing their arm for some "free" money are equally at fault here.

This is true but sadly there will always be a#seholes and if the system is open to exploitation then it will be

prunudo

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Trickling down to the kids play grounds now and insurers refusing to cover certain sections.


Nore Valley Park

"It is with regret that we have to announce that our maze and the straw bounce are now closed until further notice.

Our insurers are no longer willing to cover it, and while we are trying our best to come to a resolution with them, it will remain closed for the foreseeable."

Why can't this just be nipped in the bud and some legislation brought in that makes people culpable for their own actions.

Jesus, its been a while since I was in a Maze, I must have subconsciously blocked out how treacherous they can be!

rizzodun

QueenMTBee wrote: »

Anyway I'm done derailing this thread. I fully agree that the insurance and legal systems need to be revamped but the people of Ireland also need to change their entitled attitude about suing for everything and anything they can. If you saw the sh*t that comes across my desk every day.

I don't think you're derailing the thread at all, in fact what BPI are experiencing is a result of the current situation in Ireland.

However, there's no appetite for the government to change this, which would in effect make the public responsible for their own decisions.

Not a silver bullet but what NZ have in place could be looked at for Ireland. Where everyone (& businesses) pays into a fund to cover such claims, in effect.

[URL] https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/new-zealand-became-home-extreme-sports.htm[/URL]

So, if we can enact emergency legislation to make sure your supermarket can't sell alcohol below a certain price (to appease the vintners) why can't we enact emergency legislation to fix the current insurance crisis?

A lot will be said about this government but one thing that is pretty transparent is their inability to act with regard to any problem in front of them currently. They'll be remembered for this too. Pity it'll be too late for many companies by then.

beauf

The insurance cartels have had a free ride from successive Irish govt going back 30yrs.

smacl

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Get Signing!


https://www.change.org/p/the-oireachtus-re-open-bike-park-ireland

Five and a half thousand signatures now. Time the folks at BPI started waving it at a couple of local TDs and radio commentators.

steamsey

smacl wrote: »

Five and a half thousand signatures now. Time the folks at BPI started waving it at a couple of local TDs and radio commentators.

Signed and I'll ask a couple more MTBers to sign too.

steamsey

QueenMTBee wrote: »

I get that judges and insurance companies are partly to blame but why aren't you putting any blame at the door of the people claiming these exaggerating injuries? They don't have a gun to their head. They aren't all scrotes and scobies, they are "normal" people who see a way to make a quick buck. If people didn't make exaggerated claims and claim for dumb stuff they do then there would be no court case and no massive payout. The Joe Soap chancing their arm for some "free" money are equally at fault here.

You're right but also, insurance co's will settle at generally less than €100k. That needs to change to reduce payouts. We need to see aggressive legal action on any claim that it is doubt. But that's only going to be an attractive option for insurance co's if they are confident of the legal reasonability - which currently isn't there.

Also remember things are good for these companies at the moment, they can pick and choose and can afford to ditch higher risks during a profitable phase.

nelly17

What I cant understand is why The PIAB (Personal Injuries Assment Board) was supposed to be the silver bullet. I'm not up to speed on why it was'nt but clearly it did not do much.

prunudo

I was in a shop the other day, there was a stack of boxes waiting to be packed on the shelves in the aisle. The people in front of me commented that it was a bit 'dangerous' and half jokingly said something about the claim you could put in if you tripped up.
This is the shıte we're up against, people out for a quick buck. When and how did this sense of entitlement to money for your own clumsiness become the norm. Whether they were serious or not doesn't really matter, its the fact that it was first thing that sprung to their mind.
So while we can criticise the judges, lawyers and insurance companies all we want, a lot of the blame also rests on the general public, it needs a major reset of the mindset before there'll be any real changes.

steamsey

prunudo wrote: »

I was in a shop the other day, there was a stack of boxes waiting to be packed on the shelves in the aisle. The people in front of me commented that it was a bit 'dangerous' and half jokingly said something about the claim you could put in if you tripped up.
This is the shıte we're up against, people out for a quick buck. When and how did this sense of entitlement to money for your own clumsiness become the norm. Whether they were serious or not doesn't really matter, its the fact that it was first thing that sprung to their mind.
So while we can criticise the judges, lawyers and insurance companies all we want, a lot of the blame also rests on the general public, it needs a major reset of the mindset before there'll be any real changes.

Agreed. But surely the best way to change the general publics' mindset is to change judicial behaviour which will trickle down to insurance companies and legal firms. How else can you change the public mindset? Ad campaigns etc will only do so much. Deny claims in court - problem will soon go away.

prunudo

steamsey wrote: »

Agreed. But surely the best way to change the general publics' mindset is to change judicial behaviour which will trickle down to insurance companies and legal firms. How else can you change the public mindset? Ad campaigns etc will only do so much. Deny claims in court - problem will soon go away.

True, I don't really know what the answer is though. It can't keep going on the way it is. You'd think after the embarrassment of the Marie Bailey case that the government would start taking note, but like everything its done at snails pace.

covey123

Totally agree,but many people are opportunists,and when the system in place says "here, have some free cash,if you can forget decency and cop on for just a bit....."well, there can only be one outcome unfortunately

c montgomery

Any news on it reopening ?

Busy season is over now so would they even open for the winter?

It's such a shame, I love the place.

Wanderer78

c montgomery wrote:

Busy season is over now so would they even open for the winter?

I truly can't see them opening again, hopefully I'm wrong though

iwillhtfu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I truly can't see them opening again, hopefully I'm wrong though

Ah it will open again alright it's their business and there's not much else to be done with the land. You'll find there will a year or two of this insurance nonsense and some companies will bare the tough times better than others. I'm sure The Gap are being dragged over the coals by the insurance companies also but they would have a higher turn over than BPI so can suffer it for a certain duration.

Wanderer78

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ah it will open again alright it's their business and there's not much else to be done with the land. You'll find there will a year or two of this insurance nonsense and some companies will bare the tough times better than others. I'm sure The Gap are being dragged over the coals by the insurance companies also but they would have a higher turn over than BPI so can suffer it for a certain duration.

im hoping you re right, but the longer this goes on, my gut is telling me otherwise, id say theyre sitting on a lot of debt there, and the banks wont wait

iwillhtfu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im hoping you re right, but the longer this goes on, my gut is telling me otherwise, id say theyre sitting on a lot of debt there, and the banks wont wait

Yeah possibly but I don't believe the land was bought purposely for the bike park though I assume it was land already in their possession and their over heads would have been quite low obviously with the exception of insurance. did they have many hire bikes they would've been bought out right, machinery diggers, up lift trucks etc.

Personally I think they could look at opening up a campsite there in the interim if they can get coverage as it's becoming more and more popular. Turn the bike trails into walking trails for the short term.

Wanderer78

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Yeah possibly but I don't believe the land was bought purposely for the bike park though I assume it was land already in their possession and their over heads would have been quite low obviously with the exception of insurance. did they have many hire bikes they would've been bought out right, machinery diggers, up lift trucks etc.

Personally I think they could look at opening up a campsite there in the interim if they can get coverage as it's becoming more and more popular. Turn the bike trails into walking trails for the short term.

id imagine they 'own' the land outright, but obviously all the equipment, including bikes, would need to have been purchased, and that money was probably borrowed. money for developing the park since its opening, may also have been borrowed. i realise im making a lot of assumptions there, as i dont have access to that information, but with trails costing roughly 50k each to create, id say theyre sitting on a lot of debt, i could be wrong of course

iwillhtfu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id imagine they 'own' the land outright, but obviously all the equipment, including bikes, would need to have been purchased, and that money was probably borrowed. money for developing the park since its opening, may also have been borrowed. i realise im making a lot of assumptions there, as i dont have access to that information, but with trails costing roughly 50k each to create, id say theyre sitting on a lot of debt, i could be wrong of course

Ah I can't see them cost 50k each :eek: but then judging by the money being pissed away in Coolaney and the blooms it wouldn't surprise me.

is_that_so

prunudo wrote: »

True, I don't really know what the answer is though. It can't keep going on the way it is. You'd think after the embarrassment of the Marie Bailey case that the government would start taking note, but like everything its done at snails pace.

There's the new judicial council. A handy summary of it here.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0717/1063526-how-the-judicial-council-bill-changes-the-irish-justice-system/
The main change will be the recalibration of awards. In addition Gardai are planning to investigate fraudsters more aggressively and generate stats in Pulse.

Wanderer78

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ah I can't see them cost 50k each :eek: but then judging by the money being pissed away in Coolaney and the blooms it wouldn't surprise me.

according to bike park owners, thats how much it cost them, id say they have no reason to lie to me about it. they were extremely impressed by the company they got in to build originally, sounded very professional, they turned up with men and equipment needed for the job.

iwillhtfu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

according to bike park owners, thats how much it cost them, id say they have no reason to lie to me about it. they were extremely impressed by the company they got in to build originally, sounded very professional, they turned up with men and equipment needed for the job.

Ah right yeah I guess that's the case when you get designers etc involved to used to just heading up the hill with a mattock,saw and barrow myself

I believe The Gap used a guy from bike park wales and inside scoop is they're planning another jump line or two in the near future.

covey123

Wanderer78 wrote: »

iwillhtfu wrote: »

id imagine they 'own' the land outright,

Yeah its their land alright,has been for a long time.
I'm hoping it's just due to insurance costs and they can weather the storm,things have got to improve on insurance costs as its just so prohibitive for businesses at the moment

prunudo

I presume that unless they are riding the trails themselves it won't be long till nature starts taking over. Could take a bit of work to get them in a ridable state again if they end up being closed for a lengthy period.

DaveyDave

It's ridiculous that this is still an issue this many months later...