Beggars sitting outside shops

riclad · 10-10-2020 12:35pm

i ignore them ,the thing that annoys me is some young lad walking up to
me if i stop for 3 minutes in the street, hey mr,have you got a euro,?
i answer no ,or else walk away . In china beggars uses wepay app,
you tap the code into your phone ,they get a euro in chinese money.

https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/beggars-with-qr-code-chinese-poor-collect-alms-in-mobile-wallets-ditch-tin-bowls/1641567/

I predict in 10 years irish beggars will be using apps or qr codes to get paid.
even beggars can afford to buy an old smartphone.
its very hard to buy anything in china with cash. every shop uses wepay app.
Theres at least free 7 soup kitchens in dublin ,plus people give out food at the gpo at 8pm.
the beggars i see are in their 20,s ,im sure they can walk to a soup kitchen.they look very healthy.

delboythedub · 10-10-2020 12:35pm

ignore them

Rothko · 10-10-2020 12:36pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I watched a documentary with Ed stafford .... he went to live on the streets for 60 days and he said at end of it if they really wanted to get off the street there was the opportunity to do that ..... they choose to live on street through drug addiction and a range of mental health issues .......

Theres a lot of opportunitys to living and begging on streets....

Watch the link below, it's very informative from a genuine guy.

https://youtu.be/wNWJCI7h0us

Almost no response to this, which is exactly what I expected.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 12:49pm

Rothko wrote: »

Almost no response to this, which is exactly what I expected.

i do like stafford myself, but id have to disagree with him on this one, you must leave the world of logic and enter the world of deep illogical and dysfunctional emotional world, in order to somewhat understand addiction, mental health issues and homelessness

Stovepipe · 10-10-2020 1:42pm

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 1:44pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

so why arent we dealing with this appropriately?

Pkiernan · 10-10-2020 1:45pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

A good dousing would shift them
And at a petrol station too...

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 1:46pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

A good dousing would shift them
And at a petrol station too...

interesting 'appropriate' approach!

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 1:51pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

McGinniesta · 10-10-2020 2:06pm

I find that my feelings change according to the circumstances.

A lot of people are clearly having a hard time in life be it drugs, booze, mental illness or just plain bad luck. I feel a certain degree of sympathy for these people.

Whether I'd want them begging outside my front door now is a different matter but just moving them on doesn't solve anyone's problem either.

That's a selfish standpoint I know but one I could empathise with.

I find that organised begging is also another issue entirely and should be targeted more aggressively where possible.

10-10-2020 2:09pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

10-10-2020 2:12pm

LeBash wrote: »

Am I mistaken or was there not a law put in place that you couldn't beg (or whatever the correct pc term would be) within 10 meters of an open business?

ah FFS mate, read the thread!

McGinniesta · 10-10-2020 2:15pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

That's semantics. I think we all know the difference. Organising numbers of people to beg is essentially pimping by another name.

10-10-2020 2:18pm

MarkY91 wrote: »

Mad how we can give homes and dole to these Roma Gypsies that beg on the street but we can barely even give a bed in a hostel to homeless Irish people.

Crazy oul country. Absolute madness.

Where does this nonsense originate? seriously, what facebook link told you this?

We can always give a bed to a homeless Irish. Beds can always be sourced. Even emergency homeless as in arriving to a Garda station at 2am will result in a bed outside of very unusual circumstances. The main one being that the person has been evicted as a result of continued anti-social behaviour. Not just from whatever house they originally had but also the homeless units they were booked into. Be under no illusions, Margaret Cash was a photo op pure and simple.

and we dont give homes and dole to Roma Gypsies. They must prove they wont be a burden on the state in order to obtain a PPS number just like all immigrants from other EU states. You need a PPS number to apply for welfare and the homing list. Being unemployed with no realistic source of income will result in a rejected application.

They dont actually claim welfare you will find but instead fly as much under the radar as possible.

As opposed to the Irish junkie that was getting paid directly into his bank account so flew one way to Alicante and wasnt coming back until they called him for an interview which is every few months. I had the pleasure of sitting beside this toothless gentleman on the flight.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:19pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

The other parts about breaking shop windows and vandalising a car would be good information.

10-10-2020 2:19pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

That's semantics. I think we all know the difference. Organising numbers of people to beg is essentially pimping by another name.

Then dont claim they are crimes when the law does seperate them. You cant rock into court with a lad and just say "Ah well sure Judge we all know it, its only semantics"

10-10-2020 2:21pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The other parts about breaking shop windows and vandalising a car would be good information.

Except the comment was specifically about organised begging. Read it

Im not saying dont tell the Gardai by the way, but realistic with what they can do with it.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:24pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Except it was a non verbal threat that may or may not have been made but presumed and the chap obviously wasnt willing to tell the Gardai himself.

Im not saying dont tell the Gardai by the way, but realistic with what they can do with it.

It would have more effect than discussing it on the internet and people asking why something isn't being done. The Gardai do take action, but they would benefit from people reporting more.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/almost-50-arrested-gardai-clamp-15412932

10-10-2020 2:38pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would have more effect than discussing it on the internet and people asking why something isn't being done. The Gardai do take action, but they would benefit from people reporting more.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/almost-50-arrested-gardai-clamp-15412932

AGGRESSIVE begging. Not organised. ffs mate, thats the third time I have had to seperate them.

In the scenario we are actually discussing, we are looking at a third party telling Gardai about a story someone else told him that in itself didnt reference any actual act or threat but a percieved threat and the person suggested that it was good info against organised begging. Its not and your link isnt proof of organised begging either

Yes, tell Gardai but dont expect beggers to just get scooped off the street as a result.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:51pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

AGGRESSIVE begging. Not organised. ffs mate, thats the third time I have had to seperate them.

In the scenario we are actually discussing, we are looking at a third party telling Gardai about a story someone else told him that in itself didnt reference any actual act or threat but a percieved threat and the person suggested that it was good info against organised begging. Its not and your link isnt proof of organised begging either

Yes, tell Gardai but dont expect beggers to just get scooped off the street as a result.

We are both agreed that it would be good to inform the Gardai. You have already decided what the outcome would be. I have no way of knowing that. But if they got the same report from other people, it would all go to making a case.

It is a serious business where a shop is afraid that their property and that of their staff is under threat of damage by a beggar or beggars.

TheW1zard · 10-10-2020 2:56pm

I usually spit on them or give them a good kick up the hole. The odd time i like to kick their cup over but only when its raining

10-10-2020 3:07pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We are both agreed that it would be good to inform the Gardai. You have already decided what the outcome would be. I have no way of knowing that. But if they got the same report from other people, it would all go to making a case.

It is a serious business where a shop is afraid that their property and that of their staff is under threat of damage by a beggar or beggars.

A case of what? reports from who? If you think it builds a case, show me. Whats the charge? Who are your witnesses? Why cant you seperate the two?

Again, threats from one single person even if reported by a million people doesnt meet the requirements of organising begging. It meets others under public order, assault and criminal damage maybe but NOT organising begging

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 3:12pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

A case of what? reports from who? If you think it builds a case, show me. Whats the charge? Who are your witnesses? Why cant you seperate the two?

Again, threats from one single person even if reported by a million people doesnt meet the requirements of organising begging. It meets others under public order, assault and criminal damage maybe but NOT organising begging

The person who knows about these two, may not know that they could be part of an organised gang doing the same at multiple locations. If they reported what they know to the Gardai, it could tie in with other information. Especially as they seem to suggest that the Garda car was there to observe the begging operations.

I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

Kylta · 10-10-2020 3:25pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

I usually spit on them or give them a good kick up the hole. The odd time i like to kick their cup over but only when its raining

If only I could possess your courage

10-10-2020 3:26pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The person who knows about these two, may not know that they could be part of an organised gang doing the same at multiple locations. If they reported what they know to the Gardai, it could tie in with other information. Especially as they seem to suggest that the Garda car was there to observe the begging operations.

I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

ok, so what part of that quote if proof of an offence under section 5 POA 2011? Unless the guy ins question is actually controlling the other person as opposed to simple making a deal, there is no offence under the begging laws

You make stuff up, this is the issue. The OP at no point suggested the Gardai where there to observe the begger. He just said a Garda car was there, prior to the begger arriving it seems.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 3:39pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

ok, so what part of that quote if proof of an offence under section 5 POA 2011? Unless the guy ins question is actually controlling the other person as opposed to simple making a deal, there is no offence under the begging laws

You make stuff up, this is the issue. The OP at no point suggested the Gardai where there to observe the begger. He just said a Garda car was there, prior to the begger arriving it seems.

Along with this other information they posted, I think those two could be part of an organised crime gang. The link I put before shows that the Gardai discovered other crimes when they carried out a crackdown on organised begging. Reporting the intimidation to the Gardai, could lead to them solving other crimes, like shoplifting.

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30897107.html

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 3:41pm

Burn them all. It's clearly the only answer. That or a good piss blasting.

Edgware · 10-10-2020 5:28pm

We have one lad who only turns up Saturday 9.00 a.m. to 6.00 p.m.
No sign of him anywhere for the rest of the week. But looking at the bundle of shopping he goes away with in the evening as well as loads of cash one day a week is enough. This is on top of his welfare payments.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 5:29pm

Edgware wrote:

We have one lad who only turns up Saturday 9.00 a.m. to 6.00 p.m. No sign of him anywhere for the rest of the week. But looking at the bundle of shopping he goes away with in the evening as well as loads of cash one day a week is enough. This is on top of his welare payments.

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Stovepipe · 10-10-2020 5:32pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

No. If the station attendant wasn't going to, when he had Gardai shopping in his own station, what was I going to do?

riclad · 10-10-2020 5:42pm

Theres no need for anyone to beg ,they get welfare payments.
why would i give someone money to buy drugs or drink .
the gaurds have serious crimes to deal with,drug dealers, criminal gangs ,
if people are giving money to beggars ,thats their loss.
99 of beggars are young people ,you sit outside a shop with a paper cup, what organisation is required for this .
they sit outside any shop during the day .
i see very few roma women begging now .

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 5:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote:

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

riclad wrote:

Theres no need for anyone to beg ,they get welfare payments. why would i give someone money to buy drugs or drink . the gaurds have serious crimes to deal with,drug dealers, criminal gangs , if people are giving money to beggars ,thats their loss.

.......

agoodpunt · 10-10-2020 5:51pm

I avoid shops who tolorate begging outsde its to subsidize addiction and its organised I why they all use the homeless excuse.

"Begging was always illegal here under the Vagrancy Act of 1847, but that ended after a constitutional challenge in 2007. ... The new law also makes it illegal to beg in certain places, such as at the entrances to business premises, near ATM cash machines, and in other area"

Why is the law not enforced? cut dole on repeat offenders?

MarkY91 · 10-10-2020 5:57pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Then get a job?

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 5:58pm

MarkY91 wrote: »

Then get a job?

...whats the chances of a person that may have been unemployed for a long period, of actually getting one?

10-10-2020 7:28pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...whats the chances of a person that may have been unemployed for a long period, of actually getting one?

Very slim with that attitude.

riclad · 10-10-2020 7:40pm

The gardai have more important things to do than arrest beggars,
they usually sit near the entrance to the shop ,
shop assistants cannot arrest someone who is just sitting in a public place.
some of them may be homeless ,some of them may just be looking for money to buy drugs.
if people stopped giving them money they would not be there .

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 7:41pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Welfare is enough to live on. More than enough. It should never ever be enough to live comfortably on. What would be the incentive to work?

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 7:43pm

Augeo wrote: »

Very slim with that attitude.

you serious, an employer would easily take on someone that has been long term unemployed, and more than likely has complex psychological issues, and possibly some addiction issues?

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Welfare is enough to live on. More than enough. It should never ever be enough to live comfortably on. What would be the incentive to work?

so there was no justification for increasing covid payments?

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 7:50pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you serious, an employer would easily take on someone that has been long term unemployed, and more than likely has complex psychological issues, and possibly some addiction issues?

so there was no justification for increasing covid payments?

Different scenario. People were forcibly removed from their employment and compensated for the inconvenience. There should not be a comparable payment to all unemployed, some of whom have never and will never seek gainful employment even on the lower rate of payment.

Question: if the Dole becomes €350 a week , who will work in McDonald's or the local shop? Just increase the min wage? Ok. Now the shop worker gets €500+ a week, but wait there are graduates over there complaining now they don't get as much, why did they bother bettering themselves? What now the graduates can have €700 a week. Everyone's happy right. What? You want more now because he got more and she did too? Fine here you go.

Wait , where did the FDI guy go? Hello? HELLO?

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 7:52pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Different scenario. People were forcibly removed from their employment and compensated for the inconvenience. There should not be a comparable payment to all unemployed, some of whom have never and will never seek gainful employment even on the lower rate of payment.

Question: if the Dole becomes €350 a week , who will work in McDonald's or the local shop? Just increase the min wage? Ok. Now the shop worker gets €500+ a week, but wait there are graduates over there complaining now they don't get as much, why did they bother bettering themselves? What now the graduates can have €700 a week. Everyone's happy right. What? You want more now because he got more and she did too? Fine here you go.

Wait , where did the FDI guy go? Hello? HELLO?

...and our current approach of low wage inflation is working by....

LuasSimon · 10-10-2020 7:56pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Welfare in Ireland is very generous compared to the UK , 203 Euro v 70 Sterling.
As long as you dont have a drug, drink or gambling problem you could live a reasonable life on the dole . The main thing is to get somewhere to rent and pay the 30 euro each week contribution. 50 euro would buy a lot of groceries for a single person.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 7:58pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Welfare in Ireland is very generous compared to the UK , 203 Euro v 70 Sterling.
As long as you dont have a drug, drink or gambling problem you could live a reasonable life on the dole . The main thing is to get somewhere to rent and pay the 30 euro each week contribution. 50 euro would buy a lot of groceries for a single person.

so what happens if you do have complex psychological issues, and are long term unemployed?

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 8:01pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so what happens if you do have complex psychological issues, and are long term unemployed?

A lot of the "complex" issues are no more complex than being a shiftless waster happy to supplement a handout with regular petty crime. How much effort do these people put in to seeking help for such "complex" issues?

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 8:02pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

A lot of the "complex" issues are no more complex than being a shiftless waster happy to supplement a handout with regular petty crime. How much effort do these people put in to seeking help for such "complex" issues?

whats your background in determining such issues?

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 8:02pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

whats your background in determining such issues?

What's yours?

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 8:03pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

What's yours?

a lifetime of mental health issues, and regularly interacting with mental health services

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 8:13pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a lifetime of mental health issues, and regularly interacting with mental health services

So none then, save for one personal experience. Would it be fair to say, you recognised you had mental health issues and sought out help (regardless of how much help was actually received).

Is it not a bit fanciful to suggest the vast majority of long term unemployed are suffering from various complex mental health issues, without any concrete evidence or professional background? Some may well be.

It's equally valid therefore for me to suggest with my only professional experience having been a period of unemployment which I spent re-educating that a large percentage of people (not all) who remain endemically long term unemployed are in fact lazy and too dependent on the handout to sort their situation out.

Man with broke phone · 10-10-2020 8:16pm

The people with the mental health problems begging need to be sectioned, the people with addictions need to be put in drunk tanks and the career beggars need to be dealt with in the most severe punishments allowed by our society.

I would vote for a law change where if found to be begging as a career you would be put to work as a farm animal. Dragging a plough or whatever. Fed like a farm animal and inly allowed an hour a day to yourself to apply for jobs.

They even lie to themselves and call it tapping because they cant admit to themselves they are beggars. Like they are great scam artists.
I need two euro for the bus bud. Sure you do.

There is a woman and two daughters in fairview most days that bus there and always people sitting with them offering them sympathy, they need to be forced into whatever department would help them or punish them.

There is also a growing number of begging Roma mothers who are visited by their well groomed daughters and sons in school uniforms at lunchtime to be given lunch money. Its a bizarre occurance I noticed working on a site that overlooks a few streets in dublin city centre.

Theres no shame the kids turn up like they are coming home for lunch. Talk in their language for a while and then get given money for a roll and can of coke or what have ye.

Then a pile of plebs who have some sort of need to show these people that they love them sitting with them for a half hour and giving them money or sandwhiches they put to the side and dont eat.

kravmaga · 10-10-2020 8:29pm

paul71 wrote: »

Romania has one of the smaller Roma populations of Europe. The Roma here are more likely to be Czech, Slovak or Hungarian.

They are SLOVAK, I was on a Ryanair flight a few weeks ago from Bratislava to Dublin. Ive travelled all over the Czech republic and Poland on various hols, did not see many roma there. Have never been to Hungary, so cant comment.

Early morning flight , we arrived at Bratislava airport at 06:30am.

Walked in side to get a coffee and low and behold its full of roma gypos.

Teeth missing, some had gold teeth, cheap ear rings, the women wearing the typical long dresses , black hair.

I couldnt believe it, all going to DUBLIN.

It got worse when we took our seats they were all seated around us, Id say about 25 of them, like a team, all in high spirits, laughing joking , sharing sambos and crisps, drinks with each other, they were speaking in there own ****ty roma language.

Low and behold when aircraft lands at Dublin they all clap and laugh, then revert into speaking in English.

None of them were aware of the HSE Covid Passenger locater forms and were trying to fill in at the last minute before approaching INIS-Immigration booths. A male was refused entry for no form filled out in front of me just threw his hands up and walked back to get another form.

Some were stopped and taken by immigration for further questioning. But the majority got through, I waited with the gf to see.

Seems Dublin is a popular destination for them. No wonder the city is crawling with them, seems to be teams arriving in large numbers.

And if the recent edition of Crimecall showing roma females in large groups fleecing a retailer/toy shop in a rural town recently is anything to go by.

Its just going to get worse, 37,500 of them in Irelands according to Eurostat. Only 3,000 here in 2004. Do the math.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/10/life-in-slovakias-roma-slums-poverty-and-segregation#:~:text=Numbering%20half%20a%20million%20and,ethnic%20minority%20in%20the%20country.

Beggars sitting outside shops

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