Beggars sitting outside shops

1990sman · 10-10-2020 12:50am

Rothko wrote: »

Just to annoy people.

but the permutations are boundless...

"just" to annoy people

just "to" annoy people

just to "annoy" people

just to annoy "people"

endless fun

10-10-2020 12:52am

paul71 wrote: »

Romania has one of the smaller Roma populations of Europe. The Roma here are more likely to be Czech, Slovak or Hungarian.

While true about Romania, it's incorrect about the Irish based. The majority of ours are Romanian. Or I should say the majority that get arrested produce Romanian id. I believe the census backs me. Possible because Romania treat them like dirt so more inclined to leave. Italy has a problem with roma beggers and thief's as well. Spain had a sizeable amount as well but more likely to make they money from carnivals, markets, etc. My kids go to school beside a roma area so have a few friends that are Roma's.

I remember a mother asking me if we had gypsies in Ireland and did I like them. I didn't know whether to look at the floor or the ceiling but thankfully the wife got me out of answering.

StereoSound wrote: »

Can anything be done about them to move them on ? Don't see store managers giving a sht about them asking their customers for money...would the cops move them on or they even bother to approach them ?

Spend the day in the ccj courts. They are arrested daily but begging on its own is not a crime.

Someone mentioned being told to go back and buy stuff in the shop. That's a crime. Aggressive Begging

Personally I'm not inclined to take any action. They are sitting there with an empty cup. Give or don't give, your an adult ffs!

The ones sleeping rough and beggibg at night I'm inclined to feel sorry for. Sandwich, cup of tea and 5 minutes to see how they are, it's not hard. Lot better than dragging someone down a laneway and mugging them.

paul71 · 10-10-2020 12:59am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Spend the day in the ccj courts. They are arrested daily but begging on its own is not a crime.

Correct unless it is aggressive or causing an obstruction.

1990sman · 10-10-2020 1:06am

i thought begging was made illegal except for a loophole on a bridge?

10-10-2020 1:07am

paul71 wrote: »

Correct unless it is aggressive or causing an obstruction.

Which is why I said "begging on its own". Actual aggressive begging is really just robbery though with different wording. Let's be honest, the POA wording was only designed to get around the court decision so it's fairly open.

1990sman wrote: »

i thought begging was made illegal except for a loophole on a bridge?

There's no loophole for a bridge. What's this myth now?

1990sman · 10-10-2020 1:10am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Actual aggressive begging is really just robbery though. Let's be honest, the POA wording was only designed to get around the court decision.

There's no loophole for a bridge. What's this myth now?

wasnt beggin made illegal in some bylaw circa 2003 but somehow it didn't cover bridges and that's why any bridge in any town had them on it? wasn't this a thing for while?

Jamie?

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:10am

1990sman wrote: »

i thought begging was made illegal except for a loophole on a bridge?

No, it was not. 2011 criminal justice public order act.

2.—A person who, while begging in any place—
(a) harasses, intimidates, assaults or threatens any other
person or persons, or
(b) obstructs the passage of persons or vehicles,

Begging is not illegal, to intimidate or cause obstruction while doing so is.

1990sman · 10-10-2020 1:13am

oh they changed it back so. was defo a bit where they managed to ban it but soros or mary robinson or dustin the turkey got it changed back for our new air-sharers.

jams100 · 10-10-2020 1:13am

DD1518 wrote: »

There's some genuine cases of people being down and out and I have no issue with helping them by buying a meal and toiletries etc. I recently met a 22yo girl in a sleeping bag on Westmoreland street obviously had drug issues but wasn't begging just sat in a sombre state so I went over and offered to buy her a meal and got a few bits like tampons toothbrush deodorant she couldn't be more appreciative and sat telling me all her life story which was truly very tragic it's heartbreaking what some people have to endure in life. What annoys me is the organised Roma families who are moved from place to place and then collected in the evenings in high end cars I seen one particular elderly lady in 6 or 7 different spots over the years and most recently in Malahide she sure gets about for someone who's supposed to be homeless. There can be a lot of ungrateful people on the streets also and have been told many a time to stick my offer of food and just give them money no way am I supporting an addiction.

Have to agree i bought someone a cup of tea and pastry a while ago, they were lying in a tent and it was freezing out, nobody with a bit of money would do that. Probably the best 4 or 5 euro I've spent in about 5 or 10 years, sadly I'm generally one with steps over these people all too often. (On a separate note why can't homeless put their rubbish in a bin? Always frustrates me when they don't or anyone for that matter).

Hope im never down on my luck after reading some of the comments on here

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:13am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Which is why I said "begging on its own". Actual aggressive begging is really just robbery though with different wording. Let's be honest, the POA wording was only designed to get around the court decision so it's fairly open.?

I know I was agreeing with you niner.

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:13am

1990sman wrote: »

oh they changed it back so. was defo a bit where they managed to ban it but soros or mary robinson or dustin the turkey got it changed back for our new air-sharers.

No, it was never illegal.

10-10-2020 1:14am

1990sman wrote: »

wasnt beggin made illegal in some bylaw circa 2003 but somehow it didn't cover bridges and that's why any bridge in any town had them on it? wasn't this a thing for while?

Jamie?

Yes and no. Begging under the vagrancy act was declared unconstitutional as it is a cultural thing. Thank you cahir o'higgins. At a guess, I'm gonna say 2008ish?!?!

It was made illegal again in 2011 but only if it's accompanied by additional behavior such as 'aggression' or 'causing an obstruction' or in the vicinity of an ATM. There's no bridge exemption that I'm aware of but then as I said, it's not really my thing.

Tony EH · 10-10-2020 1:17am

The chancers are easy to spot. They're Roma. Don't give any money to them. It's very simple. Every country in Europe is tapped by them and they are organised. It's their way of life.

Others, you can make your choice. If you want to chuck a couple of coppers into their cup and help them out, do so. If you want to walk on by, do so.

I don't know what anyone gets out of being a miserable cunt about it though and pissing and moaning about people you know fuck all about.

10-10-2020 1:17am

riclad wrote: »

Junkies don't need money, they go to a clinic and get free drugs.

Eh sorry, repeat that please. Are you suggesting that they go to the clinic and get free heroin?

They get methadone on prescription when they are in a drug treatment course.

Now, plenty also take heroin or sell the methadone but they don't just stroll in and get handeda spoon, lighter and needle ya lunatic!

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:19am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yes and no. Begging under the vagrancy act was declared unconstitutional as it is a cultural thing. Thank you cahir o'higgins. At a guess, I'm gonna say 2008ish?!?!

It was made illegal again in 2011 but only if it's accompanied by additional behavior such as 'aggression' or 'causing an obstruction' or in the vicinity of an ATM. There's no bridge exemption that I'm aware of but then as I said, it's not really my thing.

The myth comes from the toll that was on the ha penny bridge back in the 1850s or whenever it was built. When Dublin Corporation abolished the toll beggars started to beg on the bridge and it became a tradition. In fact it become a tradition on several bridges in Dublin and is not unique to Dublin or Ireland. The myth grew out of the tradition.

L1011 · 10-10-2020 1:20am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Thank you cahir o'higgins.

Thought that name sounded familiar, from a recent extremely strange sounding incident that is awaiting tril in 2022.

10-10-2020 1:20am

paul71 wrote: »

The myth comes from the toll that was on the ha penny bridge back in the 1850s or whenever it was built. When Dublin Corporation abolished the toll beggars started to beg on the bridge and it became a tradition. In fact it become a tradition on several bridges in Dublin and is not unique to Dublin or Ireland. The myth grew out of the tradition.

Fascinating. Every day is a school day indeed.

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:23am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Fascinating. Every day is a school day indeed.

The classic example is Charles bridge in Prague if you ever visit.

Sephiroth_dude · 10-10-2020 1:25am

Pkiernan wrote: »

The majority of begging in Dublin is organised crime.

Same in Cork City.

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:32am

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Same in Cork City.

It may be organised but its not a crime, I never give any beggar money, but as other posters have said I have given a ham sandwich or a cup of coffee, any money I give is given to the Simon Community.

Rothko · 10-10-2020 1:34am

1990sman wrote: »

but the permutations are boundless...

"just" to annoy people

just "to" annoy people

just to "annoy" people

just to annoy "people"

endless fun

Now, you're just taking the "piss".

Witcher · 10-10-2020 1:38am

paul71 wrote: »

It may be organised but its not a crime, I never give any beggar money, but as other posters have said I have given a ham sandwich or a cup of coffee, any money I give is given to the Simon Community.

I think you'll find it is;

Section 5, Criminal Justice (Public Order), Act 2011

A person who—

(a) controls or directs the actions of another person for the purposes of begging,

(b) organises or is materially involved in the organisation of begging by another person,

(c) forces another person to beg, or

(d) otherwise causes another person to beg,

is guilty of an offence

paul71 · 10-10-2020 1:41am

Witcher wrote: »

I think you'll find it is;

Section 5, Criminal Justice (Public Order), Act 2011

Good luck with that, it would be easier to prosecute under the tax acts.

Sephiroth_dude · 10-10-2020 1:49am

paul71 wrote: »

It may be organised but its not a crime, I never give any beggar money, but as other posters have said I have given a ham sandwich or a cup of coffee, any money I give is given to the Simon Community.

People literally go around collecting the money from the beggars during the day, that shouldn't be allowed.

1990sman · 10-10-2020 2:06am

yeah they should make them illegal again.

10-10-2020 4:22am

paul71 wrote: »

It may be organised but its not a crime, I never give any beggar money, but as other posters have said I have given a ham sandwich or a cup of coffee, any money I give is given to the Simon Community.

It's a perfect example of organised crime.

MarkY91 · 10-10-2020 10:53am

Mad how we can give homes and dole to these Roma Gypsies that beg on the street but we can barely even give a bed in a hostel to homeless Irish people.

Crazy oul country. Absolute madness.

pgj2015 · 10-10-2020 10:53am

I was pissed one night walking home in Dublin city, I woke this homeless man up on O Connell bridge and asked him did he want any money, he said yes please, so I gave him a load of ones and twos I had after the night out, he was a gentleman and was very thankful, like I had woke him up and it was winter, it probably wasn't easy to get to sleep in those conditions.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 10:54am

MarkY91 wrote: »

Mad how we can give homes and dole to these Roma Gypsies that beg on the street but we can barely even give a bed in a hostel to homeless Irish people.

Crazy oul country. Absolute madness.

yup, those scary foreigners are definitely to blame for all of our social issues regarding homelessness

Mules · 10-10-2020 10:59am

I find the chuggers are the worst of all. You can't blame heroin addicts for wanting money to pay for their addiction but the chuggers have no excuse. Those feckers put me off giving, especially the ones that want your bank details.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 11:01am

Mules wrote: »

I find the chuggers are the worst of all. You can't blame heroin addicts for wanting money to pay for their addiction but the chuggers have no excuse. Those feckers put me off giving, especially the ones that want your bank details.

...or maybe we have serious wealth distribution issues, leading to the existence of the 'chuggers'?

MarkY91 · 10-10-2020 11:05am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yup, those scary foreigners are definitely to blame for all of our social issues regarding homelessness

I never said they were in any way to blame. I simply just can't understand how they're treated better than homeless Irish people.... In Ireland.

Would you like to explain why?

Edit: and please don't bring Syrian refugees into this if you want to go on a rant about fleeing a war torn county. Explain why a Gypsy from Eastern Europe is more important in Ireland than an Irish person.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 11:06am

MarkY91 wrote: »

I never said they were in any way to blame. I simply just can't understand how they're treated better than homeless Irish people.... In Ireland.

Would you like to explain why?

are they really?

MarkY91 · 10-10-2020 11:11am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are they really?

Have you ever seen those Gypsy women sleep rough? Genuine question.

I have only ever seen Irish people sleep rough. The Gypsies are sleeping safe and sound in their warm bed.

Kylta · 10-10-2020 11:17am

MarkY91 wrote: »

Have you ever seen those Gypsy women sleep rough? Genuine question.

I have only ever seen Irish people sleep rough. The Gypsies are sleeping safe and sound in their warm bed.

I agree with you there they specialist in organise begging. I have seen this. And now I expect to be called a racist for speaking the truth.

10-10-2020 11:18am

We have an indigenous Roma community now. They're not all foreign.

MarkY91 · 10-10-2020 11:22am

Kylta wrote: »

I agree with you there they specialist in organise begging. I have seen this. And now I expect to be called a racist for speaking the truth.

Nobody can share an opinion these days without being some sort of "ist". PC culture has taken over.

riclad · 10-10-2020 11:35am

I give no money to beggars ,i think they spend it on beer or cigarettes ,
I See a young roma woman begging with A Sign ,help ,need money for food,
thats a lie, 400 yards away theres a cafe where they give out free dinners everyday to anyone that shows up.if theres someone homeless they can acess
hostels .some people with drug issues may choose to live on the streets .
i cannot think of a reason to give money to a beggar in ireland.
if you want to help buy someone a roll or a bottle of water .
if anyone lives in ireland they can apply for a welfare payment if they are not working .
i know a young man in his 20,s ,sometimes he begs .
He spends 5 hours a day playing counter strike in an internet cafe.he is well dressed ,i do,nt know if he is homeless .

Kylta · 10-10-2020 11:38am

There are people who beg who don't need to beg, thats a fact I actually know onehis outside my local spar. He's better dressed than I am and his actually spotless. I give fu¢k all. Because he's a professional beggar
Then you have the addiction crowd, most want money to score first or get a drink, I might on occasion which is very rare give them anything unless I know them. (The problem with that is they then think your an easy touch, so in the end you have tell them to fu©k off).
Then you have the people early in the morning outside shops begging for their breakfast, and I'd drop them a coin and a sambo. No problem,
Then you have this ethnic foreign begging clan who organise begging. I have seen this first hand. To elaborate would take to long.
My pet hate is the aggressive beggar (these are far and few between) but I seen one put the hammer on an old woman one day, she actually handed him a euro but he was adamant he wanted more, the old lady said no thats all she had, so he became very aggressive with her (I sure he had mental issue's). So I ran him and he got nothing of her in the end. Every now and again he approaches me begging, and I say remember the old woman and he fu¢ks off.
And then there's the young girl/guy I need a fiver for a bed for the night, I'm homeless.

Any way I don't think I left out any of the begging groups

Mules · 10-10-2020 11:38am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...or maybe we have serious wealth distribution issues, leading to the existence of the 'chuggers'?

We definitely have uneven wealth distribution worldwide. It's a bit off topic but I remember back during the recession the commodities markets also fluctuated wildly. Investors speculating on the prices of grain caused farmers in 1st world countries to lose their livelihoods and led to famine in 3rd world countries. Speculating on food shouldn't be allowed. I was very surprised it was.

TaurenDruid · 10-10-2020 11:41am

MarkY91 wrote: »

Nobody can share an opinion these days without being some sort of "ist". PC culture has taken over.

"I was reading a book yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

~ Neil Gaiman

Mules · 10-10-2020 11:41am

Kylta wrote: »

There are people who beg who don't need to beg, thats a fact I actually know onehis outside my local spar. He's better dressed than I am and his actually spotless. I give fu¢k all. Because he's a professional beggar
Then you have the addiction crowd, most want money to score first or get a drink, I might on occasion which is very rare give them anything unless I know them. (The problem with that is they then think your an easy touch, so in the end you have tell them to fu©k off).
Then you have the people early in the morning outside shops begging for their breakfast, and I'd drop them a coin and a sambo. No problem,
Then you have this ethnic foreign begging clan who organise begging. I have seen this first hand. To elaborate would take to long.
My pet hate is the aggressive beggar (these are far and few between) but I seen one put the hammer on an old woman one day, she actually handed him a euro but he was adamant he wanted more, the old lady said no thats all she had, so he became very aggressive with her (I sure he had mental issue's). So I ran him and he got nothing of her in the end. Every now and again he approaches me begging, and I say remember the old woman and he fu¢ks off.
And then there's the young girl/guy I need a fiver for a bed for the night, I'm homeless.

Any way I don't think I left out any of the begging groups

It's the roma beggars that annoy me because begging is part of their culture, it's their version of making a wage. Whereas at least with Irish people you know something has gone wrong in their life that they've got in that situation.

Mules · 10-10-2020 11:45am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

"I was reading a book yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

~ Neil Gaiman

Treating people with respect is good. It's when things get fuzzy like doing or saying something shouldn't be allowed because it might be offensive that is a bit dodgy. It seems that the people who are in to it that way are just authoritarian and don't really represent minorities. They always seem to be non minorities from what i can see.

Kylta · 10-10-2020 11:53am

I belief a spade should be called a spade (no pun intended) when were dealing with criminal elements disregarding whether their irish, romanians, nigerians. I totally disagree with people using the race card for leniency.

And where did the begging thread go

Nexytus · 10-10-2020 12:00pm

I think the obvious solution would be to have some sort of means test and periodic assessment following on from which a Certificate of Authenticity is
issued. This would valid for a specified period and would have to be prominently
displayed at the begging site. Potential donors are allowed to examine the Certificate and put any questions they feel necessary to the prospective beggar.

barney shamrock · 10-10-2020 12:04pm

I used to throw beggars a couple of coins until I noticed they had mobile phones and more expensive footwear than mine hidden under their blankets.

Das Reich · 10-10-2020 12:14pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’d always throw them a couple of quid, if I have it. If not a simple ‘sorry, I’ve no change’ will suffice.

These people are on one of the lowest “rungs” of society. Firing a few coins their way is the least I can do.

Can’t win with the misers on here. Don’t give tok “organised” charities because they waste it on wages, don’t give to beggars because they make you feel bad or they’re secretly millionaires.

My father is a beggar from 1972. All because my grandfather finded him a job when he was 25. Definately not lowest rungs of society as he have two sisters that are retired teachers, and the rest of the living brothers all well off.

LeBash · 10-10-2020 12:20pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's a public space. They have every right to be there annoying as it may be. And the store managers don't have the authority to order ANYBODY to do anything. They don't have powers of arrest or to move people along from a public area.

Am I mistaken or was there not a law put in place that you couldn't beg (or whatever the correct pc term would be) within 10 meters of an open business?

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 12:25pm

LeBash wrote: »

Am I mistaken or was there not a law put in place that you couldn't beg (or whatever the correct pc term would be) within 10 meters of an open business?

I don't think there is anything in the legislation. It would probably by too difficult for Gardai to know where the legal boundary lines are. There is a law governing "agressive" begging at any location.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/5/enacted/en/html

Ironman76 · 10-10-2020 12:25pm

Tzardine wrote: »

I went into the Centra beside work a few weeks back (Dublin city).

I never give them anything. I dont even acknowledge them. They are a scourge.

But one of them stung me well the other day. Have to give him credit. He played the game well.

I was walking past him and got the usual any change speil. I said, sorry, dont carry any cash - you know the Covid situation and all.

He says to me - any chance of buying me a sandwich.

Smart ****er.

Its hard to turn down buying somebody some food if they say they are hungry. Even if they are a strung out drug user. So I bought him a sandwich.

Moral of the story - im going back to not acknowledging them.

Yeah not a hope of getting money off me but I’d struggle to refuse someone food, even if they were off their heads. I hate to see anyone go hungry.

Beggars sitting outside shops

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