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"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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    #212
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    I think Jaime had to create distance between himself and Cersei to ultimately realise that his life would never be complete without her. He toyed with the whole alternative life with Brienne and realised it was hollow and he would never truly be happy living like that. Cersei is his toxic addiction, and the love flowing from his end of the arrangement has always been purer, but he's always come back to her despite the frequent coldness and cruelty she has shown him. But in the end, they genuinely and deeply love each other.

    Her acting really made that end scene as well. A decidedly cruel end for her, desperately afraid, pleading with a dying Jaime to somehow save her and their unborn child, knowing that it is her actions have led her to this point from which there is finally no return, no escape, no magic reprieve.

    Poor tragic Jaime - all he wants is to be with Cersei, in life or in death. It's enough for him, it's not enough for her, but they meet the same fate regardless, dying together just like they were born together.

    As someone who regularly craps on this season through sheer disappointment, I can't commend D&D enough for somehow knocking that one out of the park, giving both such fitting ends that tie together and avoiding some predictable, cliché ending where Cersei gets roasted and Jaime rides off into the sunset with Brienne.

    I know it's not for everyone but for me it'll be the endearing memory of S8, and it genuinely mattered to me as both were my favorite characters hands down. In a way, I care less about what happens Jon, Daenerys, and the rest of the merry band.

    I think Tyrion is the only one left I'm rooting for to have an ending he deserves, if the narrative can spare him any further cruelty.

    And please god don't let Cersei be somehow not dead...please.


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    #213
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,509 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    If they can't confirm Cersei is dead (she is but nobody knows this) I'd imagine it becomes part of the last episode, is she dead or did she escape thanks to Tyrion.


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    #214
    J. Marston
    Registered Users Posts: 23,116 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Of course Cersei is dead. I'm seeing this a lot around the internet where people think she's alive. She's beneath the entirety of the Red Keep more or less and why would she live and not Jaime?

    My paranoia is making me think people have looked at leaks and are "guessing" stuff trying to be clever.

    I'm on to you all....


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    #215
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    I think about that a fair bit, while I've no intention of seeking out leaks, I've no doubt that loads of speculation posted here and elsewhere is extremely 'informed'....

    The odd time I see something absolutely daft and seriously out-there posted and I almost panic, thinking that's actually so absurdly daft and specific it could be real and based on a leak...


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    #216
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Penn wrote: »
    From Season 2, when the dragons were still just young pups, when the lords of Qarth refuse to let her in.

    Daenerys Targaryen: When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground!

    She has always been destined for this. She fed off the love her people and advisors had for her because she was the Khalessi and mother of dragons etc etc, but she was always on the edge of just destroying everything in her path to get what she wanted.
    Since Viserys died, she has sought power (and vengeance when things didn't go her way) and it didn't help that her advisers, while trying to control her more brutal urges, have always told her that she is wonderful and awesome and a most excellent leader. Their devotion to her fed into her ego and literally created a monster.

    Tyrion finally learned that in this episode. He has known for ages what she is and had conversations with Varys about it and instead of listening to his instincts, he sold out Varys and is largely responsible for what happened in KL. Tyrion used to be one of my favourite characters because he was so resilient and insightful despite his physical shortcomings but they really have butchered his character the last couple of seasons.


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    #217
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Tyrion finally learned that in this episode. He has known for ages what she is and had conversations with Varys about it and instead of listening to his instincts, he sold out Varys and is largely responsible for what happened in KL. Tyrion used to be one of my favourite characters because he was so resilient and insightful despite his physical shortcomings but they really have butchered his character the last couple of seasons.

    It's what happens when you give up the drunkenness and whores. They were what was really powering his great ideas


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    #218
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Since Viserys died, she has sought power (and vengeance when things didn't go her way) and it didn't help that her advisers, while trying to control her more brutal urges, have always told her that she is wonderful and awesome and a most excellent leader. Their devotion to her fed into her ego and literally created a monster.

    Tyrion finally learned that in this episode. He has known for ages what she is and had conversations with Varys about it and instead of listening to his instincts, he sold out Varys and is largely responsible for what happened in KL. Tyrion used to be one of my favourite characters because he was so resilient and insightful despite his physical shortcomings but they really have butchered his character the last couple of seasons.

    Turns out Penny was the brains of the operation all along :pac:

    His character probably really has gone to sh1t, liked his scene with Jaime this week but it's dun been a while since he had anything good. Scene with Sansa I also liked but felt a bit unearned to say the least

    It'd be a fcuk of a lot more obvious if it wasn't in the hands of an actor of Dinklage's calibre. Kind of lost count of the times I've thought "He's up to something, he knows something, he's got some pla...nope". Dinklage is conveying a lot of shades of grey that are not there in the writing for him imo.

    I kind of like the idea of him losing or overestimating his judgement, being someone who used to be able to always get out of any situation, see any move miles ahead and finding himself suddenly unmoored and outmatched. But I don't actually know if that's what they're going for on purpose.


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    #219
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It finally came up in work for the first time really this season. The two other people had absolutely no idea why Dany would go mad and why she stopped being the good guy.

    It may have been rushed but it was logical. One of them had no idea that her father wanted to burn KL, and she considers herself to be a big fan.


    So oddly, the only episode I quite liked this season despite some issues, was the only one they didn't like. I guess I liked it because while o hoped it would happen, I didn't think the show would have the balls anymore to do it.


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    #220
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Liam O wrote: »
    The inconsistency is the only thing stopping that being a great episode. Drogon fire can only knock down walls when Jon isn't behind one. Dany only cares about innocent people until the plot needs a new antagonist. Scorpions a super weapon one minute and completely useless the next. Cersei Ice Queen one minute and sympathetic the next. I could go on. Thought it was good but again, doesn't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things.

    The King's Landing guards are as incompetent as the Winterfell guards so at least that's somewhat consistent :)

    So, you and everybody you know has but one personality characteristic? Is it that outlandish to think that Cersei might have the ability to love, or feel regret?


    I think a lot of people who reportedly dislike the show/season/episode are really upset that certain characters did not meet the correct ending.

    If it's one thing that ASOIAF has proven is that nothing is certain.


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    #221
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It finally came up in work for the first time really this season. The two other people had absolutely no idea why Dany would go mad and why she stopped being the good guy.

    It may have been rushed but it was logical. One of them had no idea that her father wanted to burn KL, and she considers herself to be a big fan.


    So oddly, the only episode I quite liked this season despite some issues, was the only one they didn't like. I guess I liked it because while o hoped it would happen, I didn't think the show would have the balls anymore to do it.
    She can consider herself a big fan but if the part about the Mad King wanting to burn KL went over her head then she can barely call herself a plastic fan. Did she miss the scene with Jamie and Brienne in the bath? The numerous mentions throughout the show? Dany's constant reminders that she's the rightful heir to the throne? Honestly, did you ask her how she missed it? :confused:


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    #222
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Strange to think that there is only one episode left of the whole series. Those who watched it from the very beginning will probably find it very emotional. I wonder if there will be something special at the end similar to the end credits of the Lord of the Rings Return of the King to remember all the characters who have come and gone in the series. Would be nice to have a throwback to characters like Ned Stark, Tywin Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Littlefinger, Olenna Tyrell. The list could go on really.


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    #223
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Strange to think that there is only one episode left of the whole series. Those who watched it from the very beginning will probably find it very emotional. I wonder if there will be something special at the end similar to the end credits of the Lord of the Rings Return of the King to remember all the characters who have come and gone in the series. Would be nice to have a throwback to characters like Ned Stark, Tywin Lannister, Joffrey Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Littlefinger, Olenna Tyrell. The list could go on really.

    I think you'll find people split on it all.


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