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Tesla Model S

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1…5758606263…90

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    #1772
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and you don't consider that a design flaw?

    Been like that in every bmw I’ve owned.
    Never had to replace one mind you.

    But I’ve never left my car in a basement for 12 months on end.

    My Civic could be swapped out in minutes though.


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    #1773
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the ICE car isn't sitting there constantly monitoring itself.

    Must be one of those design flaws you read about on the internet.


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    #1774
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    JPA wrote: »
    It's a legitimate question. An ICE car does not have a source of power to charge the 12v.

    It does. It’s something they do all the time when not left sitting for too long.


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    #1775
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    JohnC. wrote: »
    Must be one of those design flaws you read about on the internet.

    so you dont think an EV with a massive battery fully charged letting its 12V drain itself isn't a design flaw? An EV that is constantly monitoring itself just does nothing while the 12V drains to the extent that the owner can't even open the doors. that isn't a design flaw?


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    #1776
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so you dont think an EV with a massive battery fully charged letting its 12V drain itself isn't a design flaw? An EV that is constantly monitoring itself just does nothing while the 12V drains to the extent that the owner can't even open the doors. that isn't a design flaw?

    It’s not a design flaw as it was never designed to do what you state.
    Could it be done? I don’t know?

    Why can’t the ice fire up something to run the belt to charge a 12v?


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    #1777
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Gumbo wrote: »
    It’s not a design flaw as it was never designed to do what you state.
    Could it be done? I don’t know?

    The 2016 Ioniq has been doing this since day 1, there is a system called the auxiliary battery saver that kicks in every 2 days and will charge the 12V battery. It's not always been 100% successful for people, but it's not a huge engineering challenge.


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    #1778
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    liamog wrote: »
    The 2016 Ioniq has been doing this since day 1, there is a system called the auxiliary battery saver that kicks in every 2 days and will charge the 12V battery. It's not always been 100% successful for people, but it's not a huge engineering challenge.

    And that is the only known, not yet fixed, faulty system / software bug on Ioniq :p


    All Teslas monitor the 12V permanently and top up when required and all Teslas are awake at all times. But I do not know how long this system operates beyond normal parameters. I'd say it's fine for a few weeks, maybe even a few months. But if you leave it longer either it switches itself off because the HV battery is getting low, or because it is programmed to do so. A Model S typically loses about 1% of a full charge for each 24 hours it is not used (basically it's on standbye)

    As I said before though, once 12V lead acid batteries are replaced with 12V Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePo4), this problem will largely disappear as the latter can be far deeper discharged and has far lower self-discharge rates. I'd say you could leave one fully charged for a few years and it will still be above minimum voltage to get a car's 12V systems going (around the 10V mark)


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    #1779
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Apparently the Tesla bug on the 12V happens when the car is left plugged in for an extended period of time.
    I'm pretty sure the manual says do not store the car plugged in, an element of user error was in play when James May experienced this problem.


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    #1780
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,745 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so you dont think an EV with a massive battery fully charged letting its 12V drain itself isn't a design flaw? An EV that is constantly monitoring itself just does nothing while the 12V drains to the extent that the owner can't even open the doors. that isn't a design flaw?

    I think you are missing the point that all 12V lead acid batteries have a "charge" point where no matter what they will fail, even if plugged into the wall.
    The Tesla does maintain the 12v battery via software as laid out above but it's not a miracle worker and once a lead acid battery reaches its dead point it's dead.
    Also, that era Tesla should not be left plugged in, clearly states so in it's manual, it's only the new MIC M3 that are fine to leave plugged in 24/7.
    Lead Acid are not great technology and are themselves a design flaw e.g. could be replaced with a higher capacity battery or lithium cell tech.

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    #1781
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Getting the car back tomorrow afternoon.
    Feel like a kid on Christmas Eve :)

    Ok back to being excited.
    Car is finished and ready for collection.

    Turns out the GPS antenna wasn’t getting power for the systems to come back online. That’s sorted now. Collecting on Monday. It’s Christmas Eve again :)


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    #1782
    carloscorreia
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭carloscorreia


    This may be the first Model S Plaid in the wild.
    I really hope that steering wheel is an option and we can get the "normal" one...

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-plaid-walkthrough-video/


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    #1783
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I like the "yoke" :D


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    #1784
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Looks like the plaid+ version is cancelled and the Plaid stays for now. Musk says it’s a niche model and the demand wasn’t there, but the analysts seem to disagree, because Tesla make such a high margin on niche models already. They point to the $180k price tag on a refreshed ageing model, the chip shortage, and also their future order volume for the refreshed S/X mightn’t be strong - reinforced by the fact that Tesla haven’t restarted S and X production for months now, when production for a model refresh can be retooled in a week or two.

    Obviously it makes no diff to us here in Ireland, there wouldn’t have been any sales of such an expensive model anyway. It’s like lamenting the cancelling of the F150 Lightning!


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    #1785
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Sounds like a weak excuse to me. Perhaps something more serious is at play here. The 4680 cells not anywhere near ready for mass production possibly?


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    #1786
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    He said the Plaid was so good the + didn’t make sense.


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    #1787
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Gumbo wrote: »
    He said the Plaid was so good the + didn’t make sense.

    I think most people brushed past that remark in fairness.
    .
    Nearly everything ‘substantial’ he tweets these days gets outed as untrue eventually - the trick is to have something new and shiny to show people by the time the original lie is rumbled. That’s his marketing genius.


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    #1788
    Sam W
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭Sam W


    Well with the Roadster having a 0-60mph of 1.1 seconds, he wouldn't want to have Plaid+ 'compete' with Roadster.


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    #1789
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Gumbo wrote: »
    He said the Plaid was so good the + didn’t make sense.

    It definitely didn’t make sense when the new battery isn’t ready; some analyst calculated an 80%+ incremental margin based on $30k extra revenue for a cost of a little over $5k, so there is no way he is leaving this on the table


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    #1790
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Jizique wrote: »
    It definitely didn’t make sense when the new battery isn’t ready; some analyst calculated an 80%+ incremental margin based on $30k extra revenue for a cost of a little over $5k, so there is no way he is leaving this on the table

    Agree.
    The Plaid + will be presented as the new refresh MS.


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    #1791
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I know a couple of folks who were disappointed at this, had reserved plaid+ (in Ireland) so would disagree with the sentiment that none would be ordered here.

    I'd be more looking at a new X than new S but for me (in either form) the plaid was/is the best balance of cost vs features. I'd guess that they want to push anyone that was looking at the plaid+ to get the plaid now and get the roadster.


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    #1792
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    And of course the top model Lucid Air will now become the fastest production car, it will no longer be trumped by the Plaid +

    That's a bit like conceding victory, which is not typical for Tesla / Musk. I don't think we've heard the last of this yet.


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    #1793
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Lucid air is still vaporware though, as is the new S.


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    #1794
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Lucid air is still vaporware though

    Production is supposed to start very soon. Next few months.


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    #1795
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yup, just like the galway and cork superchargers. Coming soon.


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    #1796
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Haha, their leader is Rawlinson though, not Musk :D


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    #1797
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭sk8board


    I did wonder alright if Plaid+ was too much bleeding edge tech to be ‘wasting’ on a refresh of an old model.
    Maybe they’re holding it back for something else, or maybe the Plaid+ made the roadster look like bad value


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    #1798
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭sk8board


    June 10 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc will deliver a high-performance version of its Model S on Thursday, aiming to reignite interest in the nearly decade-old sedan and fend off rivals such as Porsche and Mercedes-Benz in the luxury electric vehicle market.
    Tesla redefined electric cars in 2012 when it launched its high-end Model S, but is facing a raft of new challengers.
    The latest price for the Model S Plaid is $10,000 more than the $129,000 price tweeted by Musk, and what was displayed a few days ago on Tesla's website.”

    At $140,000, it’s definitely one for the fans then … :)


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    #1799
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    sk8board wrote: »
    At $140,000, it’s definitely one for the fans then … :)


    It's a lot of money, but to put that in perspective, it's almost $50k cheaper than the fastest Taycan, which has lower performance.


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    #1800
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭sk8board


    unkel wrote: »
    It's a lot of money, but to put that in perspective, it's almost $50k cheaper than the fastest Taycan, which has lower performance.

    It’s only a paper stat though - golf club carpark top trumps. Outside that carpark no-one cares.
    .
    Meanwhile everyone else will just buy the base Taycan and it’ll be the fastest car they’ve ever driven.

    .
    A better comparison would be the new €65k golf R versus a M3LR - similar range and acceleration, relatively speaking - but I’d have the Tesla 9 times out of 10.

    As an aside, Tesla’s halo models are starting to really age, and we know that full replacement models will take them YEARS to deliver to market, so how long can they cling to 0-60times as a differentiator, when 0-60 times aren’t important to mass market buyers ….
    It reminds me of the original Godzilla GT-R fans, or more recently the mk1 golf R lads. The competition catches up pretty fast.


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    #1801
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,915 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    sk8board wrote: »
    It’s only a paper stat though - golf club carpark top trumps. Outside that carpark no-one cares.

    You don't seem to care, maybe that's because you are used to slow ICE cars and you've said a 0-60 time of 6s is all you ever need?

    I certainly do care about performance. Always have done and always will. Back in the day that meant several of my family cars were V8 petrols.


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