Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

tudderone · 27-03-2021 11:06pm

civdef wrote: »

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=286430617

The poxy eu is about to throw our sport under the bus with their lead ban and you are defending them :rolleyes: ?

civdef · 28-03-2021 12:28am

Defending what? I'm reacting to a silly rant about Nazis and communists, yet again.

Grizzly 45 · 28-03-2021 3:15pm

civdef wrote: »

Defending what? I'm reacting to a silly rant about Nazis and communists, yet again.

Well then as such a EU fan you should be able to answer these very simple basic questions on the EU's history?Y

1]What is the Ventotene decleration?
who wrote it and their political affiliations?Where was it written?

2]Please give a brief outline of the former careers and political affiliations of these founders and supporters of the forerunner of the EU?

Walter Hallstein,Paul Henri Spaak ,Walter Funk,Hans Josef Globke, Lady Diana Mosley,[Easy one that]

2a] Which of the above first mooted the idea of a common European currency in what circumstances?

3] Explain what the Frankfurt school of Economics and thought is [and no it is not a building in Frankfurt as one dope of an Irish TD who shall remain nameless claimed]

4]Who founded the above and what was his political affiliation?

5] When and how has the above institute affected the EEC/EC /EU?

6] What is a "Triloge" in the process of the EU l Parliament making law?

When you have googled all of the above come back and tell us it is all Conspiracy or just stay a good little EU citizen in denial/ignorance that doesn't question anything. Your superiors in Brussels would prefer it that way.

civdef · 28-03-2021 4:31pm

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

tudderone · 28-03-2021 4:50pm

civdef wrote: »

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

It doesn't matter. The unelected, unaccountable commission have decided to take a massive swipe at our sport. For what reason ? No one knows as they meet in secret and don't reveal publically what they do discuss, why ? I thought democracy was supposed to be an open and inclusive system ?

Its claimed to be for enviromental reasons, i don't believe that for a second, so whats their motive in banning lead in civilian ammunition ? Us mere proles might never know.

civdef · 28-03-2021 5:03pm

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

tudderone · 28-03-2021 6:19pm

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

I don't believe the eu is communist or nazi, but they do dance to the tune of multinationals and big business.

Just because the Americans have banned the use of lead, over actual wetlands only probably, doesn't mean we have to. The Uk ? Well BASC threw their members under the bus there. I know a few shooters over there and they are seriously not happy about it.

I have no problem with a ban over wetland if the wading birds are poisoned by lead shot. But banning it over ranges and agricultural land is a sick joke.

Grizzly 45 · 28-03-2021 8:45pm

civdef wrote: »

Seriously what's the point here? You want to draw me into a range of disconnected little titbits you reckon support your grand conspiracy notion? This is more suitable for the conspiracy theory forum, honestly.

So IOW you know SFA about what you think you know everything about and cant repudiate or are too ignorant to go and look up as it might just upset your world view on how great the EU dictatorship is? Brilliant you are the model EU citizen..:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 28-03-2021 8:50pm

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

How you get to that jump in logic,I really want to hear...

civdef · 28-03-2021 9:02pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So IOW you know SFA about what you think you know everything about and cant repudiate or are too ignorant to go and look up as it might just upset your world view on how great the EU dictatorship is? Brilliant you are the model EU citizen..:rolleyes:

Putting it bluntly, I think some of the conspiracies being presented verge here on insanity. I am not going to get sucked into trying to debate crazy theories - there is no value in it.

I hope I'm not the only one seeing that here.

Grizzly 45 · 28-03-2021 9:09pm

]

tudderone wrote: »

Just because the Americans have banned the use of lead, over actual wetlands only probably, doesn't mean we have to. The Uk ? Well BASC threw their members under the bus there. I know a few shooters over there and they are seriously not happy about it.

Not all over the entire USA. Mostly in wildfowl areas or wildfowl producing areas. Rifle ammo still seems good
USA: Ammunition other than lead required for waterfowl and when hunting with a shotgun (not including slugs) on wildlife refuges and waterfowl production areas.

https://www.longrangeshooting.org/articles/state-regulations-concerning-the-use-of-lead-free-ammunition

Uinseann_16 · 28-03-2021 9:09pm

civdef wrote: »

The Americans brought in lead bans on shogun cartridges years ago, the British are doing it also. It's not just an EU thing.

We're getting screwed over here, no question - but lepping up and down about communists and Nazis under the bed sure as feck won't help. It just 100% guarantees not being taken seriously.

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

tudderone · 28-03-2021 9:10pm

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

I see what you did there

civdef · 28-03-2021 9:11pm

tudderone wrote: »

I don't believe the eu is communist or nazi, but they do dance to the tune of multinationals and big business.

Every government dances to the tune of multinationals and big business - they're a big part of what pays for government. Not sure big business is pushing the lead ban though - I suspect the environmental lobby is more behind this.

It's not just lead either, substances called PFAS are used, among other things, to make very effective firefighting foam. It's being phased out/ banned at the moment because it is also a very persistent harmful chemical. The difference here is that there are workable alternatives coming on stream, and a decent switchover time is being allowed.

Lead is a ****ty chemical to put into the environment - anyone who tries to argue that is tripping frankly - the harm it does has been known for centuries. restrictions on it are inevitable. It would be an awful lot fairer if more time was given to develop viable alternatives though - and there should be no exemptions for military use - if it has to be phased out, that should apply to all users.

Grizzly 45 · 28-03-2021 9:12pm

civdef wrote: »

Putting it bluntly, I think some of the conspiracies being presented verge here on insanity. I am not going to get sucked into trying to debate crazy theories - there is no value in it.

I hope I'm not the only one seeing that here.

Why are you so scared to refute them if they are conspiracy theories?. Apart from claiming such?The simple fact is if you were to actually answer what I posed is it would destroy your argument.:)

civdef · 28-03-2021 9:13pm

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Certain parts of the US saying Americans is very misleading... A EU style lead ban would go down like well a lead balloon in the US

It was brought in by the Federal Government (under Bush 41), and applies to designated areas across the whole country. Steel shot is far more prevalent over there than here up to now.

tudderone · 28-03-2021 9:15pm

civdef wrote: »

Every government dances to the tune of multinationals and big business - they're a big part of what pays for government. Not sure big business is pushing the lead ban though - I suspect the environmental lobby is more behind this.

It's not just lead either, substances called PFAS are used, among other things, to make very effective firefighting foam. It's being phased out/ banned at the moment because it is also a very persistent harmful chemical. The difference here is that there are workable alternatives coming on stream, and a decent switchover time is being allowed.

Lead is a ****ty chemical to put into the environment - anyone who tries to argue that is tripping frankly - the harm it does has been known for centuries. restrictions on it are inevitable. It would be an awful lot fairer if more time was given to develop viable alternatives though - and there should be no exemptions for military use - if it has to be phased out, that should apply to all users.

The eu says lead posioning kills 1 million birds a year. But cats kill 6 million, to put things in perspective. If they banned ownership of cats, they would save six times the amount of birds.

civdef · 28-03-2021 9:18pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why are you so scared to refute them if they are conspiracy theories?. Apart from claiming such?The simple fact is if you were to actually answer what I posed is it would destroy your argument.:)

I think you're posting nonsense on this subject. You see me as defending the status quo and tacitly supporting this huge massive tyranny you've discovered involving both the communists and nazis controlling the EU decades after both their systems collapsed.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one, I suspect, and I'm not going to try.

Uinseann_16 · 29-03-2021 12:43am

civdef wrote: »

It was brought in by the Federal Government (under Bush 41), and applies to designated areas across the whole country. Steel shot is far more prevalent over there than here up to now.

Designated areas not the whole country and not a ban on the sale of it as the EU style would essentially cause , simply not for use on game in certain areas
Extremely misleading way to describe it

Mellor · 29-03-2021 8:42am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
Speak for yourself first...;) And I'll do as I please as I am not beholden to the likes of you.:)

These were you rules not mine. You’re complaining about double standard, while rolling out the double standards. Surely you see the irony.

What Trump said.Please point out anywhere there is a mention of drinking any sort of disinfectant in there?

Are you really clinging to the fact he said, in that instance, injection not drinking?

Grizzly 45 · 29-03-2021 12:28pm

Mellor wrote: »

These were you rules not mine. You’re complaining about double standard, while rolling out the double standards. Surely you see the irony.

Are you really clinging to the fact he said, in that instance, injection not drinking?

Who said about anyone making "rules" here?We are not in a formal debating society.:rolleyes:And i I am quoting exactly what he said...Words have meanings as you well know!So iat least have the courtsey of trying to quote the man properly.

Mellor · 29-03-2021 2:45pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Who said about anyone making "rules" here?We are not in a formal debating society.:rolleyes:

No idea what your talking about here? What debate?
I’m referring to you posts. That I quoted.
Asking if will you hold others to that standards.
It a rhetorical question. We both know that.

And i I am quoting exactly what he said...Words have meanings as you well know!So iat least have the courtsey of trying to quote the man properly.

Quoting him directly doesn’t help your position.
That whole speech made him look like a buffoon. His words don’t need to be misquoted. (Didn’t you bring up the comments?)

Which is why he (and possibly posters here) tried to claim it was a joke. Clearly it wasn’t, so that attempt to deflect after the facts highlights that he knows it was dumb.
Can’t believe that has to be pointing out a year later.

Cass · 29-03-2021 4:21pm

Was watching Joe bumbling his way through his first presser. The usual channels covered well for him by editing out the stuttering, mumbling and at times incoherent ramblings where he actually seemed to get so utterly lost that half way through he just stopped talking.

As for the "cheat sheet". No problem with anyone using one, but given his mental state would his staff not have simply given him pictures of the "journalists" he was to call on rather than a full book of them all and only marking the ones he was to call on? Seems poor planning.

Was also watching Senator Ted Cruz's livestream at the border facility where a biden staffer was actively trying to stop him from videoing the facilities having already turned away the press and denying them access. This comes on the back of his [Biden's] "softball" interview by a PBS "journalist". He warned warned by his own staff about reversing existing and new policies (Obama's and Trump's) on border issues but he went ahead with them regardless and some of his staff now say they may have to revert back to previous border policies to stem the flow.

As usual his [Biden] own party maintain their track record on double standards with Cruz (mockingly) inviting AOC to come down and pose for photos as she did when this was an evil act under Trump.

tudderone · 29-03-2021 6:02pm

Yup, Biden says its ok for people to come to America, because thats what America is all about. Then when asked by a journalist if created a pull, he says "oh no we've deported thousands back, tens of thousands" ! Talk about mixed messages.

Grizzly 45 · 29-03-2021 9:32pm

Mellor wrote: »

No idea what your talking about here? What debate?
I’m referring to you posts. That I quoted.
Asking if will you hold others to that standards.
It a rhetorical question. We both know that.

Quoting him directly doesn’t help your position.
That whole speech made him look like a buffoon. His words don’t need to be misquoted. (Didn’t you bring up the comments?)

Which is why he (and possibly posters here) tried to claim it was a joke. Clearly it wasn’t, so that attempt to deflect after the facts highlights that he knows it was dumb.
Can’t believe that has to be pointing out a year later.

Whatever ....

Grizzly 45 · 29-03-2021 9:47pm

Of course our state propaganda machine AKA RTE gave us the clip of the Fall Guy waffling on about how his Irish ancestors left Ireland in a coffin ship....
RTE playing to our national inferiority complex again and playing the old record of Dems good , Republican bad that is hardwired into the Irish mentality since Kennedy.:rolleyes:

So which one left for Amerikay there Joe
Was it the fellah who worked as a surveyor for the British army?

Or the [whip] "crackers" with slaves in Maryland:D

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/06/26/joe-bidens-ancestor-reportedly-owned-16-black-slaves/

Grizzly 45 · 29-03-2021 9:50pm

civdef wrote: »

I think you're posting nonsense on this subject. You see me as defending the status quo and tacitly supporting this huge massive tyranny you've discovered involving both the communists and nazis controlling the EU decades after both their systems collapsed.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this one, I suspect, and I'm not going to try.

No "discovery" there mate...Its common knowledge and historically proven fact.But as they say "A mind is like a parachute...They both work best when open".:)

civdef · 29-03-2021 9:53pm

It's not working...

tudderone · 29-03-2021 9:54pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Of course our state propaganda machine AKA RTE gave us the clip of the Fall Guy waffling on about how his Irish ancestors left Ireland in a coffin ship....
RTE playing to our national inferiority complex again and playing the old record of Dems good , Republican bad that is hardwired into the Irish mentality since Kennedy.:rolleyes:

So which one left for Amerikay there Joe
Was it the fellah who worked as a surveyor for the British army?

Or the [whip] "crackers" with slaves in Maryland:D

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/06/26/joe-bidens-ancestor-reportedly-owned-16-black-slaves/

I haven't watched RTE and their "Stars" for years. It mainly consisted of tiresome aussy soaps and TD's getting an easy time of it on primetime or whatever its called now. I did tune in for the stitch-up of Irish shooters on it and all it did was get my blood pressure up.

Can you imagine if the Trumps had slaves ? You'd never hear the end of it. I know for a fact that one of Trumps great grandparents, a German immigrant, ran what was basically a mobile saloon/knocking-shop during one of the gold rushes.

Grizzly 45 · 30-03-2021 12:40pm

civdef wrote: »

It's not working...

Then skydiving aint the sport for you!:)

Grizzly 45 · 30-03-2021 12:54pm

tudderone wrote: »

I haven't watched RTE and their "Stars" for years. It mainly consisted of tiresome aussy soaps and TD's getting an easy time of it on primetime or whatever its called now. I did tune in for the stitch-up of Irish shooters on it and all it did was get my blood pressure up.

Can you imagine if the Trumps had slaves ? You'd never hear the end of it. I know for a fact that one of Trumps great grandparents, a German immigrant, ran what was basically a mobile saloon/knocking-shop during one of the gold rushes.

Meh! So The Kennedys great-granddad was a railroad magnate who peed off some tribal medicine man who put the famous "Kennedy hex" on his family and Jack Snr was a rum runner[modern day equivalent; drug runner] during prohibition and was as anti-semitic as they came, as well as being a total brute to his daughter Rose, getting her lobotomised and dumping her in a home for the rest of her life when the lobotomy was botched.

Quite frankly...on all of peoples ancestors..so what?I'm sure a few of mine arrived here via Viking longboat in the 9th century and raped and pillaged a few of all your ancestors,or sold them as slaves in Dublin,or torched a monastery or two. Am I responsible for what happened 1500 years ago?
No more than Biden,Trump ,the Kennedys or whomever is for their ancestors.

This is just the modern PC wokemob trying to "white guilt " us all for what our ancestors did in the past, which is another country, where they do thing differently. Mine didn't own any slaves in the last 150 years and the most people who go on about this have never seen cotton,bar at the end of a Qtip,let alone ever picked it.

tudderone · 30-03-2021 1:44pm

Joe Kennedy ? Wasn't he cheering on the nazis, thought they were great people altogether and hoped they would beat the British ? I wonder if he ever gave a thought as to what would happen to us here ?

Brontosaurus · 30-03-2021 6:45pm

So tennis and, of course, golf is now allowed, is it just these two or are outdoor ranges allowed to open now?

tudderone · 30-03-2021 6:48pm

Brontosaurus wrote: »

So tennis and, of course, golf is now allowed, is it just these two or are outdoor ranges allowed to open now?

It depends how many in the dail participate in each sport :rolleyes:

Brontosaurus · 30-03-2021 7:11pm

tudderone wrote: »

It depends how many in the dail participate in each sport :rolleyes:

That seems to be the way...

BattleCorp · 30-03-2021 7:36pm

Brontosaurus wrote: »

So tennis and, of course, golf is now allowed, is it just these two or are outdoor ranges allowed to open now?

Outdoor ranges should be allowed reopen. But you can only go to it if it's in your county.

By the way, they aren't allowed now, I think it's from the 26th April.

JP22 · 30-03-2021 10:32pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Outdoor ranges should be allowed reopen. But you can only go to it if it's in your county.

By the way, they aren't allowed now, I think it's from the 26th April.

Just watching it on TV. the 26th seems to be the date.

Inter county travel is allowed, from what I hear if crossing a county border, you can go 20km.

No doubt it will be all explained over next day or so.

civdef · 31-03-2021 12:41am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Then skydiving aint the sport for you!:)

Only an idiot jumps out of a perfectly serviceable airplane!

My aim is #landings = #takeoffs.

Grizzly 45 · 31-03-2021 1:07am

Concur with you on that!! Have you a rating?

civdef · 31-03-2021 1:35am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Concur with you on that!! Have you a rating?

Yep, keeping it current in the midst of a lockdown ain’t easy though!

Feisar · 31-03-2021 6:51am

JP22 wrote: »

Just watching it on TV. the 26th seems to be the date.

Inter county travel is allowed, from what I hear if crossing a county border, you can go 20km.

No doubt it will be all explained over next day or so.

As far as I understand it’s 20km from your home.

BattleCorp · 31-03-2021 12:25pm

Feisar wrote: »

As far as I understand it’s 20km from your home.

RTE website has it as being anywhere inside your county or anywhere within 20km of your home if crossing county borders.

No use to me so as the my range is in another county and more than 20km from my house.

otmmyboy2 · 31-03-2021 12:45pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

RTE website has it as being anywhere inside your county or anywhere within 20km of your home if crossing county borders.

No use to me so as the my range is in another county and more than 20km from my house.

Same here.

20km is ridiculous, I live on the border of 2 counties and I can now go to the other side of one county, a good hours+ drive away, but not to the nearest town on the other side.

More arbitrary silliness as usual.

Grizzly 45 · 31-03-2021 1:29pm

civdef wrote: »

Yep, keeping it current in the midst of a lockdown ain’t easy though!

Had a US PPL with VFR rating on Cessna 172 years ago, with the aspirations to get a commercial rating.Life , money and fate decided otherwise...:rolleyes::(

Feisar · 31-03-2021 1:37pm

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Same here.

20km is ridiculous, I live on the border of 2 counties and I can now go to the other side of one county, a good hours+ drive away, but not to the nearest town on the other side.

More arbitrary silliness as usual.

Don't shoot me however!....

People are looking at loopholes and any way to circumvent the rules, the more allowances and exceptions the more opportunities for grey areas. The problem with it is it creates situations that appear silly where a person can't go to their nearest town.

otmmyboy2 · 31-03-2021 2:08pm

Feisar wrote: »

Don't shoot me however!....

People are looking at loopholes and any way to circumvent the rules, the more allowances and exceptions the more opportunities for grey areas. The problem with it is it creates situations that appear silly where a person can't go to their nearest town.

Realistically all I see in the various plans are urban solutions that are supposed to fit everyone, and they never have. Nor will that change.

Grey areas always exist regardless of best(or otherwise) intentions, look at out over legislated firearms legislation, planning laws, building restrictions, etc.

Mind you, even the most simple of laws have grey areas, it isn't really something that can be gotten around.

As it is exceptions wise I could travel to within 2km of my range to visit a family member's grave, but not to the range itself. Literally passing it by to get to said grave.

I think I'm equally likely to run into other folks at the graveyard than the range realistically, so why have one and not the other. Especially with shooting which can be about the most solitary pursuit if you went about it with that mindset.
Park up, go to your firing point, do your business, leave.
You'd have interacted with all of a barrier and a concrete bench :P

Between that and the guards now handing out tickets to people because they went to a slightly further takeaway or shop than their closest(within 10 minutes of each other, 2 different directions) this whole thing is an utter farce.

Also in their new "easings" it's despicable that they have created a double standard for vaccinated vs not.

tonysopprano · 31-03-2021 2:52pm

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

As it is exceptions wise I could travel to within 2km of my range to visit a family member's grave, but not to the range itself. Literally passing it by to get to said grave.

Unless they have completely rewritten SI 701/2020, the distance limitation ONLY APPLIES TO EXCERCISE and does not apply to any journey that can be classified as essential by SI 701/2020, which clearly states that to visit a grave is an essential journey

So all this 20km rubbish is just scraps from the table thrown to try to appease us.

otmmyboy2 · 31-03-2021 3:56pm

tonysopprano wrote: »

Unless they have completely rewritten SI 701/2020, the distance limitation ONLY APPLIES TO EXCERCISE and does not apply to any journey that can be classified as essential by SI 701/2020, which clearly states that to visit a grave is an essential journey

So all this 20km rubbish is just scraps from the table thrown to try to appease us.

Indeed, my point is I can travel to that grave, but not to the range which I pass by on the way there, because reasons. Even now that the range is open.

Unless they word it as including those outdoor activities as essential journeys, and thus exempt from the limit, in which case the county/20km limit becomes pointless as outdoor activities are everywhere :P

tonysopprano · 31-03-2021 4:05pm

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Indeed, my point is I can travel to that grave, but not to the range which I pass by on the way there, because reasons. Even now that the range is open.

Unless they word it as including those outdoor activities as essential journeys, and thus exempt from the limit, in which case the county/20km limit becomes pointless as outdoor activities are everywhere :P

Unless you are getting your exercise on the range, if within 20km. Shoot 20 @ 300yds, pack gear and run 100 yds, shoot 20, pack gear run 100yds, shoot 20. All in all a good workout.:p

otmmyboy2 · 31-03-2021 4:42pm

tonysopprano wrote: »

Unless you are getting your exercise on the range, if within 20km. Shoot 20 @ 300yds, pack gear and run 100 yds, shoot 20, pack gear run 100yds, shoot 20. All in all a good workout.:p

Action challenge match style, I like it!

Hmm you've got me thinking.

Might be a bit of an ask, but wonder could I get a reinterment on the 100m range, with visitation and obligatory saluting of course.

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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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