Norwegian Air Discussion

Idbatterim · 23-02-2017 3:51pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Cork was used by Norwegian in this case though to get approval for the services, when the real goal was Dublin.

That's never been exactly hard to see though.

I notice that 5 airports got services today from Norwegian, ORK,SNN,DUB,BFS,EDI and out of them ORK is the only one without a service to Stewart.

which it will allegedly get in April 2018. Would be good to see a Cork to Dublin flight re-instated. Its a shame Irish are being routed via London etc to the Us, instead of Dublin...

Mebuntu · 23-02-2017 4:13pm

TheChizler wrote: »

2 people return Aug/Sept €280.40

You've done well. Aer Lingus basic return fare DUB to BOS is 527.56 for those dates - plus your costs in getting to Dublin and back to Cork.

Correction: OOPS that's just for one passenger. x 2 = 1055!

Captain_Crash · 23-02-2017 4:15pm

duskyjoe wrote: »

Very very vague

I wouldn't say its that vague... "Metro-North’s Hudson line provides a direct link to Grand Central Station in New York City from the Beacon Station. Leprechaun Bus Lines provides frequent and inexpensive connections from the Beacon Station to Stewart. Taxi service is also available"

737max · 23-02-2017 4:19pm

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I wouldn't say its that vague... "Metro-North’s Hudson line provides a direct link to Grand Central Station in New York City from the Beacon Station. Leprechaun Bus Lines provides frequent and inexpensive connections from the Beacon Station to Stewart. Taxi service is also available"

...and car hire? am I the only one who when travelling straps a cabin approved rucksack to his back and then walks to the car hire desk to collect the car.

These problems with inaccessibility and charges for luggage are non-issues for me.

Captain_Crash · 23-02-2017 4:35pm

737max wrote: »

These problems with inaccessibility and charges for luggage are non-issues for me.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a return trip for two in late Jan for €277 for two. Free 10kg cabin bag each.

Thrashssacre · 23-02-2017 4:35pm

Is there a possiblity for people from elsewhere in europe to access these flights through norwegian or a partnered airline or are these routes set up in a hope that irelands demand alone will sustain these services?

flanzer · 23-02-2017 4:38pm

Has anyone worked out how they'll take off from Cork on a full pax/cargo/fuel load, then fly direct? Wasn't that pointed out earlier in the thread, due to the limitations in the length of the runway?

ongarboy · 23-02-2017 4:45pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

which it will allegedly get in April 2018. Would be good to see a Cork to Dublin flight re-instated. Its a shame Irish are being routed via London etc to the Us, instead of Dublin...

What Irish are being routed to London? There are more direct flights to USA from Ireland now than at anytime in history!

Noxegon · 23-02-2017 4:48pm

Has anyone worked out how they'll take off from Cork on a full pax/cargo/fuel load, then fly direct? Wasn't that pointed out earlier in the thread, due to the limitations in the length of the runway?

I asked a friend of mine who drives the 737 for a living. He said, and I quote:

"The MAX can do it fully loaded on 35 with flap 25, 26k thrust at v1 141, vr 141, v2 148 n1%98.33."

He says the -800 can also get out at MTOW in dry, but not in wet/contaminated.

flanzer · 23-02-2017 5:02pm

Noxegon wrote: »

I asked a friend of mine who drives the 737 for a living. He said, and I quote:

"The MAX can do it fully loaded on 35 with flap 25, 26k thrust at v1 141, vr 141, v2 148 n1%98.33."

He says the -800 can also get out at MTOW in dry, but not in wet/contaminated.

*DING DONG* 'Sorry, we regret to inform you that flight D81821, to Providence, has been cancelled due to rain'

Idbatterim · 23-02-2017 5:27pm

ongarboy wrote: »

What Irish are being routed to London? There are more direct flights to USA from Ireland now than at anytime in history!

you cant fly Cork to Dub, so IAG route all Cork - US traffic through the uk...

Noxegon · 23-02-2017 5:28pm

flanzer wrote: »

*DING DONG* 'Sorry, we regret to inform you that flight D81821, to Providence, has been cancelled due to rain'

I rather suspect that's why Stewart from Cork hasn't been launched yet; they're waiting on the MAX.

1123heavy · 23-02-2017 5:35pm

*DING DONG* 'Sorry, we regret to inform you that flight D81821, to Providence, has been cancelled due to rain'

Airlines don't tend to cancel flights when a wet/contaminated RWY is affecting performance ... they just leave behind some bags/cargo.

robyntmorton · 23-02-2017 5:39pm

1123heavy wrote: »

they just leave behind some bags/cargo.

Don't talk about the passengers that way!

elastico · 23-02-2017 5:54pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

you cant fly Cork to Dub, so IAG route all Cork - US traffic through the uk...

What difference will it make to Cork airport users whether they fly Cork - Dublin or Cork - LHR to connect to the USA?

Its still 2 flights and a transfer, its not as if they will save much time.

1123heavy · 23-02-2017 6:00pm

elastico wrote: »

What difference will it make to Cork airport users whether they fly Cork - Dublin or Cork - LHR to connect to the USA?

Its still 2 flights and a transfer, its not as if they will save much time.

There isn't enough transatlantic traffic alone to warrant setting up a Cork-Dublin sector, so the passengers are filtered through London instead where there is a sufficient demand.

JCX BXC · 23-02-2017 6:12pm

Aircraft seem to have near a 8 hour turnaround in many cases.
Flight times:

Dublin
Before 27th October

DUB-PVD 15:55-18:45 Daily excl TUE/SAT
PVD-DUB 20:00-07:55 Daily excl MON/FRI

DUB-SWF 15:55-18:55 Daily
SWF-DUB 19:55-07:55 Daily

After 27th October

DUB-PVD 15:45-18:35 MON/WED/FRI
PVD-DUB 21:00-08:10 SUN/TUE/THURS

Providence reduces from 5pw to 3pw

DUB-SWF 16:25-18:35 MON/WED/FRI
SWF-DUB 21:25-08:50 SUN/TUE/THURS

Stewart reduces from daily to 3pw

Shannon
Before 27th October

SNN-PVD 16:25-18:55 MON/FRI
PVD-SNN 20:35-08:25 SUN/THURS

SNN-SWF 16:15-19:00 WED/SUN
SWF-SNN 20:25-08:20 TUE/SAT

After 27th October

SNN-PVD 15:00-16:40 TUE/SAT
PVD-SNN 21:00-08:05 MON/FRI

SNN-SWF 14:40-16:40 THURS/SUN
SWF-SNN 21:00-08:15 WED/SAT

No change in frequency

Cork
Before 27th October

ORK-PVD 16:20-19:05 TUE/THURS/SAT
PVD-ORK 20:50-08:45 MON/WED/FRI

After 27th October

ORK-PVD 16:25-18:15 THURS/SUN
PVD-ORK 20:45-07:45 WED/SAT

Providence reduces from 3pw to 2pw

Also worth noting most cheap fares are gone and the vast majority of fares are above €500, yet with no baggage/food and flying to airports in the middle of nowhere.

Kaizersoze81 · 23-02-2017 6:19pm

Wondering about that myself, I would've thought the highest prices would be around €350 return, given that no baggage/food/in flight entertainment included. And the fact that you're flying to a regional airport. Can't see many booking once price goes above €350 rtn

murphaph · 23-02-2017 6:32pm

These airports aren't in the middle of nowhere. Millions of people live within 30 minutes drive of these regional airports in the North East US. The Irish diaspora isn't just in New York or Boston. I think people who ordinarily might have come home or gone out to visit once a year might now go several times a year.

Tenger · 23-02-2017 6:48pm

flanzer wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how they'll take off from Cork on a full pax/cargo/fuel load, then fly direct? Wasn't that pointed out earlier in the thread, due to the limitations in the length of the runway?

Somehow I am going to guess that someone in Norwegian flight planning has already run the numbers on this one and decided that they will take off just fine. (and as with many airports/runways around the world, "with some operational limitations")

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Wondering about that myself, I would've thought the highest prices would be around €350 return, given that no baggage/food/in flight entertainment included. And the fact that you're flying to a regional airport. Can't see many booking once price goes above €350 rtn

Posters here are looking at this from a European PoV.
Look across the pond at the US industry; They dont have the same fasination with massive hubs that we do,these destinations work just fine for pax originating in the NE corridor.
Their legacy carriers have cut back massively on inflight services so that on flights up to 5-6 hours (EG LAX-BOS, SFO-HNL)you may not get any complimentary inflight service apart from hot/soft drinks and some cookies/snacks in Coach.
So this offering from NAI isnt that big of a step from what is already offered internally in the USA.

Noxegon · 23-02-2017 8:05pm

Tenger wrote: »

So this offering from NAI isnt that big of a step from what is already offered internally in the USA.

By all accounts its comparable to what you get on EI/FR on a European flight. Having flown to Marrakech recently (in a headwind) I'd argue that two more hours would make no difference to me.

Locker10a · 23-02-2017 8:14pm

Noxegon wrote: »

Tenger wrote: »

So this offering from NAI isnt that big of a step from what is already offered internally in the USA.

By all accounts its comparable to what you get on EI/FR on a European flight. Having flown to Marrakech recently (in a headwind) I'd argue that two more hours would make no difference to me.

I think today's announcement marks the beginning of the end of EI's current transatlantic model, it's only a matter of time now before EI roll out their European product to their long haul.
By 2020 EI will offer 3 classes of cabins on transatlantic, Business class(no change) Economy Plus (basically today's economy) and low fares cabin which will basically be the exact same as their euopean product, buy on board, pay for seats, bags etc.

Carawaystick · 23-02-2017 8:43pm

elastico wrote: »

What difference will it make to Cork airport users whether they fly Cork - Dublin or Cork - LHR to connect to the USA?

Its still 2 flights and a transfer, its not as if they will save much time.

Clear customs in Dublin though, time saved there

john boye · 23-02-2017 8:52pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Clear customs in Dublin though, time saved there

Is it though? The airports Norwegian are flying into aren't exactly going to be bustling with international flights arriving

JCX BXC · 23-02-2017 8:53pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Clear customs in Dublin though, time saved there

I doubt it, T2 is fairly full in Dublin

bk · 23-02-2017 9:16pm

Their twitter account is saying you will go through immigration in NYC, so I assume you skip it in Dublin.

LXFlyer · 23-02-2017 10:06pm

There are virtually no other international flights at either Providence or Stewart so I wouldn't be too worried about the length of time it may take to process the flights there.

hurleronditch · 23-02-2017 11:03pm

lxflyer wrote: »

There are virtually no other international flights at either Providence or Stewart so I wouldn't be too worried about the length of time it may take to process the flights there.

I'd argue the opposite. When you have CBP in Ireland, people go through at their leisure, some will go through 2 hours before some will run through 30 mins prior, either way flight leaves on time. Given the way US customs now is stateside, trying to clear a customs desk which may only have one or two guys working, with 180 people all arriving at once, could take you an hour at least if you were sat at the back of the plane,even longer if you have 2 or 3 flights landing together.

ongarboy · 24-02-2017 2:06am

Just looking on Wikipedia at the profile of the airports that Norwegian will serve in the USA, we are really talking about a tiny airport at Stewart that has less passenger traffic (approx 300K) currently than Kerry airport although I'm sure that will significantly improve this year with the additional routes from Ireland. This low patronage suggests the airport facilities will be quite basic at this airport. Providence TF Green airport on the other hand caters for approx 3.5 million and used to handle up to 6 million in the 2000s so it will probably be a much better equipped airport for passenger facilities/shopping/dining etc.

JCX BXC · 24-02-2017 2:34am

bk wrote: »

Their twitter account is saying you will go through immigration in NYC, so I assume you skip it in Dublin.

NYC? Sadly it won't be going through immigration there either!

Jamie2k9 · 24-02-2017 3:42am

USPC has not been decided by either DY, DUB or the US authorities who operate it. The twitter team wouldn't have a clue about USPC in Dublin or even if a decision has been made.

It is however likely to be in the US if you look at it practically.

JCX BXC · 24-02-2017 3:43am

Norwegians prices have gone from Eye-Wateringly cheap to Eye-Wateringly expensive.

Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Providence in August is €599.80,
Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Boston in August is €517.64,

Guess which one offers a 20kg allowance, free meal, allocated seating and actually flies to a central airport, all included in the fare.

Let's be fair and purchase the LowFare+ with Norwegian which offers the same service as Aer Lingus, and the cheapest fare in august is now €729.80, more than €200 more expensive.

False economy?

Addition:

Cheapest Shannon - Stewart in August with United = €479.80 (€609.80 on LowFare+)
Cheapest Shannon - New York-JFK in August with Aer Lingus = €583.65
Cheapest Shannon - New York-JFK in August with Delta = €611.57
Cheapest Shannon - Newark in August with United Airlines = €575

alentejo · 24-02-2017 9:14am

Had a quick look at some of the quoted prices to Rhode Island. Very expensive, think I might stick to the legacy carriers for now.

embraer170 · 24-02-2017 9:31am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Guess which one offers a 20kg allowance, free meal, allocated seating and actually flies to a central airport, all included in the fare.

Don't you pay for allocated seating on Aer Lingus?

goingnowhere · 24-02-2017 9:40am

embraer170 wrote: »

Don't you pay for allocated seating on Aer Lingus?

Free choice at time of booking on transatlantic services

Noxegon · 24-02-2017 9:45am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Norwegians prices have gone from Eye-Wateringly cheap to Eye-Wateringly expensive.

Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Providence in August is €599.80,
Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Boston in August is €517.64,

Guess which one offers a 20kg allowance, free meal, allocated seating and actually flies to a central airport, all included in the fare.

Providence *is* a central airport for those going to Providence

Jawgap · 24-02-2017 10:07am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Norwegians prices have gone from Eye-Wateringly cheap to Eye-Wateringly expensive.

Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Providence in August is €599.80,
Cheapest return flight from Shannon to Boston in August is €517.64,

Guess which one offers a 20kg allowance, free meal, allocated seating and actually flies to a central airport, all included in the fare.

Let's be fair and purchase the LowFare+ with Norwegian which offers the same service as Aer Lingus, and the cheapest fare in august is now €729.80, more than €200 more expensive.

False economy?

Addition:

Cheapest Shannon - Stewart in August with United = €479.80 (€609.80 on LowFare+)
Cheapest Shannon - New York-JFK in August with Aer Lingus = €583.65
Cheapest Shannon - New York-JFK in August with Delta = €611.57
Cheapest Shannon - Newark in August with United Airlines = €575

Just booked for Thanksgiving in New England at about a third of the price I paid for last year with Aer Lingus......

PVD is about 90 mins from downtown Boston - the train (MBTA) goes from the airport right into South Station - plus it's smaller and easier to move around than Logan - distance-wise it may not be 'central' but timewise it's not bad.

Hartford, for example wouldn't have the connectivity PVD has.

I've already advised the family over there that they'll be seeing a lot more of me thanks to Norwegian. Hopefully it'll encourage Aer Lingus to be a bit more competitive outside the high demand periods.

L1011 · 24-02-2017 10:08am

Hilarious mis-fire of an ad in the papers today. Stating all their cheapest fares are gone and claiming a relatively high density 737 is "one of the most comfortable aircraft"

Idbatterim · 24-02-2017 10:44am

Flying into the "central" option won't be the best option for everyone. Also if visiting family or friends, everyone over there drives and can probably give a lift. This Norwegian announcement is nothing but good news. Will they be securing longer range aircraft? Would love if they could serve more than just east coast!

L1011 · 24-02-2017 11:02am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Flying into the "central" option won't be the best option for everyone. Also if visiting family or friends, everyone over there drives and can probably give a lift. This Norwegian announcement is nothing but good news. Will they be securing longer range aircraft? Would love if they could serve more than just east coast!

They have 787s, if they wanted to fly them from Ireland. There isn't, and won't be a narrowbody that can go further than the midwest; and I doubt ORK/SNN/BFS would support a widebody of any description to those locations.

Idbatterim · 24-02-2017 11:05am

Can the 737's get as far as Chicago? I agree about no other airports other than dub being able to sustain mid or wide body aircraft

L1011 · 24-02-2017 11:07am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Can the 737's get as far as Chicago? I agree about no other airports other than dub being able to sustain mid or wide body aircraft

737max should be able to. A321LR would be consistently; if they were willing to break the fleet consistency.

737max · 24-02-2017 12:09pm

I really look forward to seeing how this works out.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.
Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.
Will immigration checks be so bad. I'd guess a one third to two third split between US nationals and E.U. nationals most of the time maybe reaching 50/50 during summer so 90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.
Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

How will Ryanair react; M O'L is loathe to give anyone the steam off his urine much less make anyone else wealthy so he will not like channeling passengers to them.
They have loads of options on 737Max and there is a 737Max10 now that is getting close to the capacity needed to make it worthwhile.
They won't be buying the proper transatlantic planes anytime soon until the middle eastern carriers have stopped buying planes at any price.
They won't buy out Norwegian/share swap as that would be reducing Ryanair shareholder value for not enough in return.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Interesting times.

Mebuntu · 24-02-2017 12:44pm

Well, I'll try to answer.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.

Yes, if they want lower fares.

Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.

Yes, if they want lower fares.

Will immigration checks be so bad…90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.

For each flight at DUB pre-clearance with EI/DL etc there will be 200-300 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level

Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

Cheaper fares would likely be an incentive to do so as current fares are way too prohibitive.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Locked out by who? America thrives on capitalism and Ryanair kept Boeing alive after 9/11 and still buys only Boeing aircraft.

Interesting times.

We can all agree with that

.

Storm 10 · 24-02-2017 1:15pm

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

golfball37 · 24-02-2017 1:18pm

737max wrote: »

I really look forward to seeing how this works out.

Will people learn to live with 10kg carry-on. I can but I pack smart.
Will enough people cheerfully endure a 737 on long trip like that.
Will immigration checks be so bad. I'd guess a one third to two third split between US nationals and E.U. nationals most of the time maybe reaching 50/50 during summer so 90 to 140 people queued up while their passport is examined at a sub-atomic level.
Do US holidaymakers really have enough time to be visiting Europe with a fairly poor two weeks holidays allowance being the norm.

How will Ryanair react; M O'L is loathe to give anyone the steam off his urine much less make anyone else wealthy so he will not like channeling passengers to them.
They have loads of options on 737Max and there is a 737Max10 now that is getting close to the capacity needed to make it worthwhile.
They won't be buying the proper transatlantic planes anytime soon until the middle eastern carriers have stopped buying planes at any price.
They won't buy out Norwegian/share swap as that would be reducing Ryanair shareholder value for not enough in return.

Norwegian have bent over backwards to get their licence but I think that Ryanair would be seen as the unacceptable face of aviation capitalism and could be potentially locked out.

Interesting times.

Ryanair licking their lips as they'll act as the carrier for many passengers looking to get these Transatlantic Airports throughout Europe. All they need is a transfer deal with Norgwegian and they'll cream it.

737max · 24-02-2017 1:30pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Ryanair licking their lips as they'll act as the carrier for many passengers looking to get these Transatlantic Airports throughout Europe. All they need is a transfer deal with Norgwegian and they'll cream it.

Why have a slice when you can have the whole pie?

Jawgap · 24-02-2017 1:32pm

Storm 10 wrote: »

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

Some lack of imagination there - it's a $70 round-trip on Amtrak from Providence to Penn Station, NY - journey time is about 3 to 3.5 hrs depending on the service and time of day.

Jawgap · 24-02-2017 1:34pm

737max wrote: »

Why have a slice when you can have the whole pie?

....that would be my feeling - if RYR see that Norwegian are doing well on the routes they'll pile in with their own services and aggressively price them out of it - which should be good for a few months anyway;)

LXFlyer · 24-02-2017 1:34pm

Storm 10 wrote: »

Very interesting read here when you add up all the additional costs of flights with Norwegian to the States

https://buzz.ie/the-big-problem-with-norwegian-airlines-super-cheap-us-flights/

It all depends upon:

1) Where people are actually going to
2) How they value their time
3) Whether they're happy travelling light

These flights will appeal to certain people, but if you're going to NYC for example, people do need to check out the onward travel options before they book - the flights arrive at Stewart in the evening around 19:00 which does mean a late arrival for anyone going to NYC (we are talking probably near to 22:00 local - that's 03:00 Irish time!).

Not sure why they talk about the need for a local hotel for the return trips to Ireland? The flights leave in the evening so that makes no sense. It is fair to mention though that the train link is only once an hour from Beacon to NYC.

Providence on the other hand will have a reasonably large local catchment which will have more appeal I would imagine.

Norwegian Air Discussion

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