Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

KCross · 24-08-2018 3:56pm

One quote I got was for 4.1kWp with 5kW Hybrid inverter with 4.8kWh battery was about €7100 inc vat after grant

The breakdown inc vat before grant was this....
TSM-295 Panels|€205x14
5kW Solis Hybrid Inverter|€1800
Valk Solar mount system|€1295
Labour|€1900
4.8kWh PylonTech battery|(€2700+€300 install)
Misc (Cables, isolators RCBOs)|€300

The Valk mounting system parts seemed ridiculous to me but maybe they are that price?!

unkel · 24-08-2018 4:15pm

All those prices seem very high to me. Looks like you were right about the installers inflating parts prices.

From a well known Irish website these are prices available to the public (so not including trade discounts):

Solis 5kW hybrid inverter is 1298 + VAT, not 1800
Very good quality 300W mono panel is 148 + VAT, not 205
4.8kWh battery is 1900 + VAT, not 2700

Labour at 1900 and a mounting system for 1300 how? Someone is making a very hefty profit here!

KCross · 24-08-2018 4:28pm

unkel wrote: »

All those prices seem very high to me. Looks like you were right about the installers inflating parts prices.

From a well known Irish website these are prices available to the public (so not including trade discounts):

Solis 5kW hybrid inverter is 1298 + VAT, not 1800
Very good quality 300W mono panel is 148 + VAT, not 205
4.8kWh battery is 1900 + VAT, not 2700

Labour at 1900 and a mounting system for 1300 how? Someone is making a very hefty profit here!

Indeed. I couldn't justify it. The payback was 18yrs by my calculations.

I haven't seen a quote for much less than that though for 4kWp and 4.8kWh battery. Maybe a few hundred less but not much less.

Has anyone got a better quote for that spec?

Also, immersion diverters add about €500 and seem to be included in the quotes by default(but not necessarily listed). Unless you are already heating your water by immersion element they don't pay for themselves either but they add them to make people think they are saving money. You'd be better asking for that to be removed and keep the €500, imo.

Shefwedfan · 24-08-2018 4:39pm

KCross wrote: »

One quote I got was for 4.1kWp with 5kW Hybrid inverter with 4.8kWh battery was about €7100 inc vat after grant

The breakdown inc vat before grant was this....
TSM-295 Panels|€205x14
5kW Solis Hybrid Inverter|€1800
Valk Solar mount system|€1295
Labour|€1900
4.8kWh PylonTech battery|(€2700+€300 install)
Misc (Cables, isolators RCBOs)|€300

The Valk mounting system parts seemed ridiculous to me but maybe they are that price?!

Mounting systems here look cheaper

https://solartricity.ie/products/roof-mountings-system/

KCross · 24-08-2018 4:43pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mounting systems here look cheaper

https://solartricity.ie/products/roof-mountings-system/

I see a whole load of stuff there Shef but what does it cost when you put all the pieces together..... there's flashings, hooks, runners, bits 'n bobs in the quotes... I can't really tell how much a full installation kit is from the website you posted.

Do you have the total cost of the mounting parts for 14 panels on a slate roof?

gunnerfitzy · 24-08-2018 4:54pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Ok, I've got a bit of a quandry now.

So, to date I have a quote of 11k for 4kwp solar with 5kw battery and hybrid inverter and eddi water heater equating to 7k after seai grant

Yesterday, was speaking to another company y who told me the battery was a poor invesent and should avoid it. He offered a 3.5kwp system for a cost of 5,100 after grant (which I think is expensive actually.

So for 1900 euro extra I am getting 4kwp instead of 3.5kwp and also a 5kwh battery with hybrid inverter meaning I can charge up at night time

Any thoughts ?

I got quotes from one company (I think it is the same company who quoted you 11k for the 4kw array/5kwh battery/eddi) and the cost of the 5kwh battery over a 2.5kwh batttery was about €2k. The net cost for the 2.5kwh battery is around €2/300 for me considering the €1k battery grant and the difference in solar grant (there is a cap at €1400 if you don’t get the battery). It might be less for you as you are looking at a 4kw array, mine is likely to be 3.2kw.

The SEAI has confirmed that you cannot get the solar element of the grant now and then look for the battery element of the grant at a later stage - one application per household. So if you don’t take the battery element at the same time of the solar element it’s gone!

My thinking is to get the 2.5kwh battery now with the solar. It’s a small battery for the system but you get the infrastructure in place and it’s should be relatively simple to add another battery at a later stage. I just can’t see the ROI of the 5kwh battery over the 2.5kwh battery.

Shefwedfan · 24-08-2018 5:33pm

KCross wrote: »

I see a whole load of stuff there Shef but what does it cost when you put all the pieces together..... there's flashings, hooks, runners, bits 'n bobs in the quotes... I can't really tell how much a full installation kit is from the website you posted.

Do you have the total cost of the mounting parts for 14 panels on a slate roof?

Fire them an email....they are very quick to reply.....

KCross · 24-08-2018 7:39pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

The net cost for the 2.5kwh battery is around €2/300 for me considering the €1k battery grant and the difference in solar grant (there is a cap at €1400 if you don’t get the battery). It might be less for you as you are looking at a 4kw array, mine is likely to be 3.2kw.

My thinking is to get the 2.5kwh battery now with the solar. It’s a small battery for the system but you get the infrastructure in place and it’s should be relatively simple to add another battery at a later stage. I just can’t see the ROI of the 5kwh battery over the 2.5kwh battery.

Is your motivation to get a battery entirely to save money?
If it is, I think you are comparing the wrong figures. Its not really €200 extra.

You need to get a quote for the same system without a battery. The difference between those two quotes is what its really costing you, not the €200 you are using.

Then see what the ROI is for that difference. I think you'll find the payback is very long. Even trying to future proof it now to add extra batteries later won't justify it, imo.

Having a battery in the mix increases the cost of the inverter, labour, and obviously the battery itself. The €1k grant just about covers the increased inverter cost.

Focussing on drawing down the €1k battery grant is fool-hardy, again, imo.

gunnerfitzy · 24-08-2018 8:17pm

KCross wrote: »

Is your motivation to get a battery entirely to save money?
If it is, I think you are comparing the wrong figures. Its not really €200 extra.

You need to get a quote for the same system without a battery. The difference between those two quotes is what its really costing you, not the €200 you are using.

Then see what the ROI is for that difference. I think you'll find the payback is very long. Even trying to future proof it now to add extra batteries later won't justify it, imo.

Having a battery in the mix increases the cost of the inverter, labour, and obviously the battery itself. The €1k grant just about covers the increased inverter cost.

Focussing on drawing down the €1k battery grant is fool-hardy, again, imo.

Opinions duely noted.

However, since the battery grant is only available at the same time as installing the solar PV I would argue that it also fool-hardy to dismiss it hastingly.

There are some other considerations that just ROI. The right battery system can be used in the event of a power cut. Granted, 2.5kwh won’t last too long however if resticted to some lighting for example it would last for a number of hours - longer than most power outages I would imagine. With kids in the house I think this is a distinct plus.

It should also give somewhat of a buffer between the night and day tariffs.

I don’t see any SEAI registered company supplying and installing a 3.2kw system with diverter for much under €4000 after the grant. My proposed system will be around €5000 after grant with hybrid inverter, eddi and 2.5kwh battery. IF I get 5 years out of the battery, is any savings and peace of mind from some back up power worth €200 per year? To me - yes.

unkel · 24-08-2018 8:23pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Granted, 2.5kwh won’t last too long however if resticted to some lighting for example it would last for a number of hours

If you take it easy and only use essentials, internet

, charging phones

, lights, watch TVs

, that should last several days.

KCross · 24-08-2018 8:34pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

KCross wrote: »

Is your motivation to get a battery entirely to save money?
If it is, I think you are comparing the wrong figures. Its not really €200 extra.

You need to get a quote for the same system without a battery. The difference between those two quotes is what its really costing you, not the €200 you are using.

Then see what the ROI is for that difference. I think you'll find the payback is very long. Even trying to future proof it now to add extra batteries later won't justify it, imo.

Having a battery in the mix increases the cost of the inverter, labour, and obviously the battery itself. The €1k grant just about covers the increased inverter cost.

Focussing on drawing down the €1k battery grant is fool-hardy, again, imo.

Opinions duely noted.

However, since the battery grant is only available at the same time as installing the solar PV I would argue that it also fool-hardy to dismiss it hastingly.

There are some other considerations that just ROI. The right battery system can be used in the event of a power cut. Granted, 2.5kwh won’t last too long however if resticted to some lighting for example it would last for a number of hours - longer than most power outages I would imagine. With kids in the house I think this is a distinct plus.

It should also give somewhat of a buffer between the night and day tariffs.

I don’t see any SEAI registered company supplying and installing a 3.2kw system with diverter for much under €4000 after the grant. My proposed system will be around €5000 after grant with hybrid inverter, eddi and 2.5kwh battery. IF I get 5 years out of the battery, is any savings and peace of mind from some back up power worth €200 per year? To me - yes.

That is why I asked if money was your only motivation. If the system quoted allows off grid operation and you value that then cool. Not all systems support that either, by the way, so I presume they have confirmed it will?

I do think you should get a quote for the same system minus the battery from the same provider to get your true cost, because it certainly ain’t €200!

gunnerfitzy · 24-08-2018 9:01pm

KCross wrote: »

That is why I asked if money was your only motivation. If the system quoted allows off grid operation and you value that then cool. Not all systems support that either, by the way, so I presume they have confirmed it will?

I do think you should get a quote for the same system minus the battery from the same provider to get your true cost, because it certainly ain’t €200!

I’ve been told that one system under consideration does allow for off-grid operation however it is subject to survey of the existing wiring.

I plan to have a detailed discussion around the different options when I get the installers to the house. A small battery installed a house along with a decent sized array should only cost €000s extra though and not €0000s. Grant for a 4kw array and any battery is €3800. The grant for a 4kw array and no battery is €1400. That €2400 extra should soak up the vast majority of cost of a small battery and associated costs. In theory ...

gunnerfitzy · 24-08-2018 9:03pm

unkel wrote: »

If you take it easy and only use essentials, internet , charging phones , lights, watch TVs , that should last several days.

Indeed. Lights would be probably be the lowest priority for me the upcoming generation.

niallers1 · 24-08-2018 10:03pm

And remember. If you go over 2kw pv system you have to get a battery if you want the full grant.

Grant for 2kw system without battery is 1400 euros
Grant for 4kw system without a battery is 1400 euros.
Grant for 4kw system with battery is 3800 euros.

unkel · 24-08-2018 10:21pm

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Grant for a 4kw array and any battery is €3800. The grant for a 4kw array and no battery is €1400. That €2400 extra should soak up the vast majority of cost of a small battery and associated costs. In theory ...

My thinking exactly. So 2400 minus 1100 incl VAT for the 2.4kWh battery minus about 900 incl VAT you pay extra for the hybrid inverter over a standard one. Leaves 400 for the extra cost of installing, which should really more more than plenty

=> the battery is completely free. QED.

And you are future proofed for easily and cheaply adding lots more battery in future. If you're going to spend the guts of €4k you might as well go balls out €6k

The one thing I don't understand in this scheme is that a 7 panel 2kwp system is the max without planning permission. Do the SEAI really expect anyone going over that to apply for permission? That ain't gonna happen.

gunnerfitzy · 24-08-2018 10:45pm

unkel wrote: »

The one thing I don't understand in this scheme is that a 7 panel 2kwp system is the max without planning permission. Do the SEAI really expect anyone going over that to apply for permission? That ain't gonna happen.

What crossed my mind in relation to this is could the SEAI ask for verification of planning compliance prior to final approval of a grant application? If none is forthcoming could they refuse to pay?

unkel · 24-08-2018 11:18pm

That would be a major concern alright. And it sure looks like the whole grant system is pretty much useless (as in almost all of the subsidy goes straight into the pocket of the installer) unless you go balls out for a 4kwp system plus a very small battery.

uck51js9zml2yt · 24-08-2018 11:42pm

Has anyone given a valid reason for not naming the companies?
It would help those of us considering s system.

unkel · 25-08-2018 12:32am

Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »

Has anyone given a valid reason for not naming the companies?

Because the forum charter says:

"Any threads naming specific companies/traders will be deleted."

Seems archaic if I'm honest. Maybe they put this in historically because companies were shilling / spamming? I agree with you, this certainly is not helpful

KCross · 25-08-2018 9:22am

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Grant for a 4kw array and any battery is €3800. The grant for a 4kw array and no battery is €1400. That €2400 extra should soak up the vast majority of cost of a small battery and associated costs. In theory ...

niallers1 wrote: »

And remember. If you go over 2kw pv system you have to get a battery if you want the full grant.

Grant for 2kw system without battery is 1400 euros
Grant for 4kw system without a battery is 1400 euros.
Grant for 4kw system with battery is 3800 euros.

unkel wrote: »

My thinking exactly. So 2400 minus 1100 incl VAT for the 2.4kWh battery minus about 900 incl VAT you pay extra for the hybrid inverter over a standard one. Leaves 400 for the extra cost of installing, which should really more more than plenty

=> the battery is completely free. QED.

This is flawed logic guys.

Using your logic you might as well go for 5kWp so, draw another €700 grant and they will write you a cheque for the battery!

I know you can't get a grant over 4kWp but you get my point?

You can't allocate the panel grant to the battery to justify buying the battery because it might leave you with a "free" battery but then you have very expensive panels! You don't get both!

There is no magic here. You simply have to get an equivalent competitive quote for the same system without a battery and the difference is what the battery is costing you. Simple. Any other manipulation of the grant figures is just fooling yourself.

If the difference in cost is anything above €1500 between the two quotes you are looking at a very long payback time for your battery. I gave figures back in post 89. Did I get any of those figures wrong?

Also, simply upping your install to 4.1kWp to justify the battery (as opposed to being suitable for your house) is flawed too because you will simply be pumping more to the grid and shelling out thousands extra for it. A 4.1kWp system will have masses of excess during the day even with the battery.

You are too focussed on maximising the grant money and not enough on the payback imo, which is exactly what the govt want actually and why they configured the grant the way they did.

gunnerfitzy · 25-08-2018 9:47am

KCross wrote: »

This is flawed logic guys.

Using your logic you might as well go for 5kWp so, draw another €700 grant and they will write you a cheque for the battery!
I know you can't get a grant over 4kWp but you get my point?

You can't allocate the panel grant to the battery to justify buying the battery because it might leave you with a "free" battery but then you have very expensive panels! You don't get both!

There is no magic here. You simply have to get an equivalent competitive quote for the same system without a battery and the difference is what the battery is costing you. Simple. Any other manipulation of the grant figures is just fooling yourself.

If the difference in cost is anything above €1500 between the two quotes you are looking at a very long payback time for your battery. I gave figures back in post 89. Did I get any of those figures wrong?

Also, simply upping your install to 4.1kWp to justify the battery (as opposed to being suitable for your house) is flawed too because you will simply be pumping more to the grid and shelling out thousands extra for it. A 4.1kWp system will have masses of excess during the day even with the battery.

You are too focussed on maximising the grant money and not enough on the payback imo, which is exactly what the govt want actually and why they configured the grant the way they did.

You’ll find that at no point did I suggest getting a larger array that is suitable for one’s requirements. However, if an array in excess of 2kw is what is suitable for one’s requirements then the additional solar grant along with the battery grant should be a consideration.

It’s clear that we both have different points of view on this so I feel we should just let this lie.

KCross · 25-08-2018 10:16am

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

You’ll find that at no point did I suggest getting a larger array that is suitable for one’s requirements. However, if an array in excess of 2kw is what is suitable for one’s requirements then the additional solar grant along with the battery grant should be a consideration.

Of course you should consider it. You made some additional points around charging the battery on night rate and the use of it during outages that are valid. Finances aren't the only consideration but it is pretty important!

Im just making the point that the figures didnt add up when I look at it purely from a financial perspective.

If you think it does add up I'd like to see the fine detail of the figures. It would help everyone here to see that. I've done my own calculations and the batteries came up well short of being viable. I could be missing something as Im not an expert either. I'm the same as everyone else on here. So please share how it makes sense financially.

I believe the only way to do that is to get a quote with and without the batteries and have realistic expectations on what you can get from it in relation to displacing day rate electricity.

I'm not trying to p*ss you off here gunner, just trying to work through the facts and figures like everyone else and make an informed decision.

gunnerfitzy · 25-08-2018 10:57am

KCross wrote: »

Of course you should consider it. You made some additional points around charging the battery on night rate and the use of it during outages that are valid. Finances aren't the only consideration but it is pretty important!

Im just making the point that the figures didnt add up when I look at it purely from a financial perspective.

If you think it does add up I'd like to see the fine detail of the figures. It would help everyone here to see that. I've done my own calculations and the batteries came up well short of being viable. I could be missing something as Im not an expert either. I'm the same as everyone else on here. So please share how it makes sense financially.

I believe the only way to do that is to get a quote with and without the batteries and have realistic expectations on what you can get from it in relation to displacing day rate electricity.

I'm not trying to p*ss you off here gunner, just trying to work through the facts and figures like everyone else and make an informed decision.

You’re not p*ssing me off at all. You made valid points regarding the ROI of any battery. Finance should be the primary consideration however some such as I may have other considerations and different priorities than others. It’s an individual decision based on individual household needs and desires. I just feel that we both have put forward our views on this and at this stage we are just rehashing the same points.

I hope to get more detailed information and prices from the installers when they visit the house. I’ll post these when I get them.

Gumbo · 25-08-2018 11:15am

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

What crossed my mind in relation to this is could the SEAI ask for verification of planning compliance prior to final approval of a grant application? If none is forthcoming could they refuse to pay?

Generally they don’t ask or get involved in planning compliance issues.

air · 25-08-2018 7:37pm

If SEI had lobbied successfully for the removal of the non sensical planning restriction (which would bring us in line with the UK and elsewhere) it would have been of far more use than this grant scheme.
But administering the scheme creates work for pen pushers in SEI, as does processing farcical planning applications in county council's - along with their 6 printed copies of the drawings and whatnot.
Our public service exists to look after itself and justify its own existence in very many areas.

unkel · 25-08-2018 9:54pm

I think your own logic is flawed Kcross

KCross wrote: »

A 4.1kWp system will have masses of excess during the day even with the battery.

True. At the moment. But with any investment, you need to look at the lifespan of the investment. Yes you might waste a few years of overproduction to the grid. You know I'm no fan of immersion diverters. But if you have a 4kwp system, they do begin to make sense. And what makes even more sense is to charge your EV. I know that is only worth 7c/kWh as you could charge your car at night, but it is like getting a 7c FIT. And then there is all this talk about a current utility company already paying a 6c FIT. And it is of course possible the state will implement a FIT to encourage the accelerated move to higher renewables. The longer view is that if you have a 40kWh home attached battery in say 5 years time, you won't have to pay any electricity at the higher rate anymore. In fact some people would no longer need to buy any electricity for say 250-300 days of the year :cool:

KCross wrote: »

Also, simply upping your install to 4.1kWp to justify the battery (as opposed to being suitable for your house) is flawed too because you will simply be pumping more to the grid

But it makes sense now to benefit from the very generous €3,800 subsidy while still keeping your own spend to a minimum. This will to a large extend future proof your system, you'll only need to add batteries at some point, an easy job

Shefwedfan · 25-08-2018 10:25pm

What are the thoughts on running a cable in the air? So my sheds are 5m at most from the house, running a cable in the ground would be very inconvenient and difficult due to the set up. I would potentially need to run cable underground for 20m for least disruption

If I could run a cable direct from the sheds to the roof of the house and into the attic space it would be a lot easier and cheaper. I talked to a friend who said this would be no issue with building regs but I am unsure. Don't want it to come back and bite me on ass......

serox_21 · 28-08-2018 10:42am

Why install this systems with a company when you can buy similar systems at half price and install the panels yourself + a register electrician for electrical connections

estimates costs:

6 PV(1.8Kw) system - 1543euro+VAT
installing panels - 0 as DIY or a couple of hundred if you need help
electrical connections - 200-300(or less if you do most of the work yourself and have the electrician check it and make final connection to fuse board)

total up to 2300euro(less than any company offer including grand)

niallers1 · 28-08-2018 10:53am

Fair enough if you are handy and ok working at heights. I would think most would not be. Your numbers leave out alot of materials. Mounting system , not sure if you included inverter. Safety switch.

If you do want the grant the installer has to be on the SEAI approved installers list. If not on list then no grant. On top of having a qualified electrician the installer has to have two additional qualifications. (2 x 4 day courses if I recall correctly )

KCross · 28-08-2018 10:55am

serox_21 wrote: »

Why install this systems with a company when you can buy similar systems at half price and install the panels yourself + a register electrician for electrical connections

estimates costs:

6 PV(1.8Kw) system - 1543euro+VAT
installing panels - 0 as DIY or a couple of hundred if you need help
electrical connections - 200-300(or less if you do most of the work yourself and have the electrician check it and make final connection to fuse board)

total up to 2300euro(less than any company offer including grand)

Im starting to think that way myself. The registered installers are not cheap by any means.

They have significant profit margin built into the parts. The labour costs are also significant (€2k for a 4kWp system). Plenty room to hire direct there.

serox_21 · 28-08-2018 11:26am

niallers1 wrote: »

Fair enough if you are handy and ok working at heights. I would think most would not be. Your numbers leave out alot of materials. Mounting system , not sure if you included inverter. Safety switch.

If you do want the grant the installer has to be on the SEAI approved installers list. If not on list then no grant. On top of having a qualified electrician the installer has to have two additional qualifications. (2 x 4 day courses if I recall correctly )

I'm not including any SEAI grands or expect to apply for them.

The PV system given as example included everything(mounting rack, cables, switches, protections, inverter).

Mainly it's just a connection to fuse board for the inverter(any register electrician should be able to do it) and some checks to make sure rest of the wiring are according to standards(if you do this yourself)

I don't think the electrician needs any extra qualification if no grands are required.

The above proposal was not for average Joe or someone who never changed a socket or light bulb. A competent DIY person could do it with some guidance.

Thebowsie · 29-08-2018 9:35am

niallers1 wrote: »

2 x 2.4kwh pylontech battery. Decent enough reviews on the battery.

295 watt Trina black panels
Vandervalk mounting system.

I think If You have the battery might not need the eddi. Just flick the switch on the immersion when there is juice in the battery.

Could you PM the company quoting?
Thanks

Balanadan · 30-08-2018 11:58am

KCross wrote: »

Im starting to think that way myself. The registered installers are not cheap by any means.

They have significant profit margin built into the parts. The labour costs are also significant (€2k for a 4kWp system). Plenty room to hire direct there.

€2k for labour? Seriously?

Are the Irish installers just picking numbers?

Balanadan · 30-08-2018 12:11pm

KCross wrote: »

This is flawed logic guys.

Using your logic you might as well go for 5kWp so, draw another €700 grant and they will write you a cheque for the battery!
I know you can't get a grant over 4kWp but you get my point?

You can't allocate the panel grant to the battery to justify buying the battery because it might leave you with a "free" battery but then you have very expensive panels! You don't get both!

There is no magic here. You simply have to get an equivalent competitive quote for the same system without a battery and the difference is what the battery is costing you. Simple. Any other manipulation of the grant figures is just fooling yourself.

If the difference in cost is anything above €1500 between the two quotes you are looking at a very long payback time for your battery. I gave figures back in post 89. Did I get any of those figures wrong?

Also, simply upping your install to 4.1kWp to justify the battery (as opposed to being suitable for your house) is flawed too because you will simply be pumping more to the grid and shelling out thousands extra for it. A 4.1kWp system will have masses of excess during the day even with the battery.

You are too focussed on maximising the grant money and not enough on the payback imo, which is exactly what the govt want actually and why they configured the grant the way they did.

By the looks of it, the standard of system design, yield calculations, performance estimates, installation quality, etc. of Irish installers is behind where the UK was 10 years ago.

wexfordman2 · 30-08-2018 12:20pm

Hi,

So I am now probably looking at a 4kwp solar.with 5kwh battery. I have been also given a price for an additional 4 panels to bring my system up to 6kwp for an additional €1,250.

The push for the extra 4 panels was at my instigation (I was asking if I could supplement the 4kw system with a small wind turbine, and he said the max rating allowed for domestic was 6kw).

My thinking was that if I had a 4kw solar, could I supplement it with a small turbine so I could have night time generation as well (its windy where I am).

Just looking for some opinions on this, is the extra cost for the solar worth it, even considering I might go EV in a few years ?

KCross · 30-08-2018 12:46pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Hi,

So I am now probably looking at a 4kwp solar.with 5kwh battery. I have been also given a price for an additional 4 panels to bring my system up to 6kwp for an additional €1,250.

The push for the extra 4 panels was at my instigation (I was asking if I could supplement the 4kw system with a small wind turbine, and he said the max rating allowed for domestic was 6kw).

My thinking was that if I had a 4kw solar, could I supplement it with a small turbine so I could have night time generation as well (its windy where I am).

Just looking for some opinions on this, is the extra cost for the solar worth it, even considering I might go EV in a few years ?

€1250 for an extra 2kWp is a fair enough price. Does that include labour?

You mention 4 extra panels. Are you sure? 2kWp extra would suggest it would be more than 4 panels required to go from 4 to 6kWp

Overall is your question whether you should add the extra panels or hold off on that and add a turbine? I guess it would depend on the cost of the turbine and what its likely to generate.

wexfordman2 · 30-08-2018 1:54pm

KCross wrote: »

€1250 for an extra 2kWp is a fair enough price. Does that include labour?

You mention 4 extra panels. Are you sure? 2kWp extra would suggest it would be more than 4 panels required to go from 4 to 6kWp

Overall is your question whether you should add the extra panels or hold off on that and add a turbine? I guess it would depend on the cost of the turbine and what its likely to generate.

Thanks,

So the system is actually closer to 4.5kwp, so 4 axtra panels will add about 1.3 kwp, bringing me up to 5.8.

In suppose the first question is, would the 6kwp be worth it, is will it give me better results.

Then whether the additional power added is solar or wind, I was thinking wind would possibly.be better as that will generate at night as well. I have no idea of the cost of a small wind turbine to be honest, was just thinking as I already had the inverters etc, the decision for adding a small affordable wind turbine might make more sense than additional solar.

KCross · 30-08-2018 2:29pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Thanks,

So the system is actually closer to 4.5kwp, so 4 axtra panels will add about 1.3 kwp, bringing me up to 5.8.

Seems a bit expensive so for 1.3kWp considering they are already on site and you are giving them thousands already. The 4 panels should be costing them around the €175 mark each and add in the labour and extra brackets etc.... €1250 seems high for that.

wexfordman2 wrote: »

In suppose the first question is, would the 6kwp be worth it, is will it give me better results.

Tough question to answer with a straight yes or no. It will give better "results" in that it will generate more for you but the question is will you be able to consume it and will it pay for itself.

Thats going to be different for everyone.... do you use a lot of hot water, how do you heat water today, is someone at home during the day that can turn on appliances, etc.

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Then whether the additional power added is solar or wind, I was thinking wind would possibly.be better as that will generate at night as well. I have no idea of the cost of a small wind turbine to be honest, was just thinking as I already had the inverters etc, the decision for adding a small affordable wind turbine might make more sense than additional solar.

Its an interesting topic. I suspect any turbines that deliver anything meaningful will be expensive. You cant answer that question until you get a quote and also see if your inverter is compatible with it and Solar at the same time.

unkel · 30-08-2018 3:03pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

So the system is actually closer to 4.5kwp, so 4 axtra panels will add about 1.3 kwp, bringing me up to 5.8

Those figures don't make sense. Exactly what wattage panel are they using?

KCross · 30-08-2018 3:09pm

unkel wrote: »

Those figures don't make sense. Exactly what wattage panel are they using?

There are 325W panels so that would add up alright.... just not the price!

wexfordman2 · 30-08-2018 3:27pm

KCross wrote: »

There are 325W panels so that would add up alright.... just not the price!

Yep, just checked they are 320 panels (q cell q peak).

So 14 * 320 panels will give 4.8, and the extra 4 panels will bring it up to just under 5.8

In what way does the price not add up?

unkel · 30-08-2018 3:31pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Yep, just checked they are 320 panels (q cell q peak).

So 14 * 320 panels will give 4.8, and the extra 4 panels will bring it up to just under 5.8

You're maths are still not the best

wexfordman2 · 30-08-2018 4:57pm

unkel wrote: »

You're maths are still not the best

Arrgg!!

14 x 320w panels = 4.48
4 x 320w panels = 1.28

So 18 panels is 5.76!

Sorry, back of fags calculation and in between things.

So, anyone reckon going the additional 2 panels at 1250 euro is worth it at this stage, bringing me from 4.48kwp to 5.76kwp ?

Thanks

unkel · 30-08-2018 6:10pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

So, anyone reckon going the additional 2 panels at 1250 euro is worth it at this stage

4 panels

Do they bump up the power of the inverter or are they just installing the same one? Which one is it?

4 extra panels is maybe 1 man hour extra work (50), an extra 100 tops in materials and 4 * 160 for the panels, so worth 790 + VAT

wexfordman2 · 30-08-2018 7:07pm

unkel wrote: »

4 panels

Do they bump up the power of the inverter or are they just installing the same one? Which one is it?

4 extra panels is maybe 1 man hour extra work (50), an extra 100 tops in materials and 4 * 160 for the panels, so worth 790 + VAT

Thanks again unkel.

The inverter is a prime hybrid inverter, 5kw, which was the initial one proposed for the 14 panel solution, and they did not mention a need to upgrade for the 18 panel solution.

I am guessing that inverter is fine for my 14 panel solution, but under specced for the 18 panel ?

Shefwedfan · 30-08-2018 8:57pm

Ok, how much should it cost for electrician to install 4/8 panels if I buy all the equipment.....just connecting incorrectly and maybe running cables but I can help with that.....

unkel · 30-08-2018 10:07pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

The inverter is a prime hybrid inverter, 5kw, which was the initial one proposed for the 14 panel solution, and they did not mention a need to upgrade for the 18 panel solution.

I am guessing that inverter is fine for my 14 panel solution, but under specced for the 18 panel ?

Well I'm no expert here, but I believe a slightly undersized inverter is generally a good idea, it makes the inverter work more efficiently more of the time.

I would tell the installer that you know parts prices and he'd do well do get another grand off you for installing the extra 4 panels. So offer him 1000 instead of 1250. He knows that you're right, I doubt he'll refuse.

denismc · 30-08-2018 10:47pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, how much should it cost for electrician to install 4/8 panels if I buy all the equipment.....just connecting incorrectly and maybe running cables but I can help with that.....

Afaik the panels come with connectors that just clip together and then its a case of running cable to the inverter and consumer unit.
Sparks has to install a RCB and a couple of isolators, my guy did it in under 3 hours!
So less than a half a days work for the sparks if you can run the cables yourself.

Shefwedfan · 31-08-2018 9:04am

denismc wrote: »

Afaik the panels come with connectors that just clip together and then its a case of running cable to the inverter and consumer unit.
Sparks has to install a RCB and a couple of isolators, my guy did it in under 3 hours!
So less than a half a days work for the sparks if you can run the cables yourself.

Yeah plan is to do majority of work myself.....

Gumbo · 31-08-2018 9:40am

Most electricians I know won’t physicslly fit the panels.
If a 2 storey house then you have to think of scaffolding, health and safety etc

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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