gunnerfitzy wrote: » What crossed my mind in relation to this is could the SEAI ask for verification of planning compliance prior to final approval of a grant application? If none is forthcoming could they refuse to pay?
KCross wrote: » Of course you should consider it. You made some additional points around charging the battery on night rate and the use of it during outages that are valid. Finances aren't the only consideration but it is pretty important! Im just making the point that the figures didnt add up when I look at it purely from a financial perspective. If you think it does add up I'd like to see the fine detail of the figures. It would help everyone here to see that. I've done my own calculations and the batteries came up well short of being viable. I could be missing something as Im not an expert either. I'm the same as everyone else on here. So please share how it makes sense financially. I believe the only way to do that is to get a quote with and without the batteries and have realistic expectations on what you can get from it in relation to displacing day rate electricity. I'm not trying to p*ss you off here gunner, just trying to work through the facts and figures like everyone else and make an informed decision.
gunnerfitzy wrote: » You’ll find that at no point did I suggest getting a larger array that is suitable for one’s requirements. However, if an array in excess of 2kw is what is suitable for one’s requirements then the additional solar grant along with the battery grant should be a consideration.
KCross wrote: » This is flawed logic guys. Using your logic you might as well go for 5kWp so, draw another €700 grant and they will write you a cheque for the battery! I know you can't get a grant over 4kWp but you get my point? You can't allocate the panel grant to the battery to justify buying the battery because it might leave you with a "free" battery but then you have very expensive panels! You don't get both! There is no magic here. You simply have to get an equivalent competitive quote for the same system without a battery and the difference is what the battery is costing you. Simple. Any other manipulation of the grant figures is just fooling yourself. If the difference in cost is anything above €1500 between the two quotes you are looking at a very long payback time for your battery. I gave figures back in post 89. Did I get any of those figures wrong? Also, simply upping your install to 4.1kWp to justify the battery (as opposed to being suitable for your house) is flawed too because you will simply be pumping more to the grid and shelling out thousands extra for it. A 4.1kWp system will have masses of excess during the day even with the battery. You are too focussed on maximising the grant money and not enough on the payback imo, which is exactly what the govt want actually and why they configured the grant the way they did.
gunnerfitzy wrote: » Grant for a 4kw array and any battery is €3800. The grant for a 4kw array and no battery is €1400. That €2400 extra should soak up the vast majority of cost of a small battery and associated costs. In theory ...
niallers1 wrote: » And remember. If you go over 2kw pv system you have to get a battery if you want the full grant. Grant for 2kw system without battery is 1400 euros Grant for 4kw system without a battery is 1400 euros. Grant for 4kw system with battery is 3800 euros.
unkel wrote: » My thinking exactly. So 2400 minus 1100 incl VAT for the 2.4kWh battery minus about 900 incl VAT you pay extra for the hybrid inverter over a standard one. Leaves 400 for the extra cost of installing, which should really more more than plenty => the battery is completely free. QED.
Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: » Has anyone given a valid reason for not naming the companies?
unkel wrote: » The one thing I don't understand in this scheme is that a 7 panel 2kwp system is the max without planning permission. Do the SEAI really expect anyone going over that to apply for permission? That ain't gonna happen.
unkel wrote: » If you take it easy and only use essentials, internet , charging phones , lights, watch TVs , that should last several days.
KCross wrote: » That is why I asked if money was your only motivation. If the system quoted allows off grid operation and you value that then cool. Not all systems support that either, by the way, so I presume they have confirmed it will? I do think you should get a quote for the same system minus the battery from the same provider to get your true cost, because it certainly ain’t €200!
gunnerfitzy wrote: » KCross wrote: » Is your motivation to get a battery entirely to save money? If it is, I think you are comparing the wrong figures. Its not really €200 extra. You need to get a quote for the same system without a battery. The difference between those two quotes is what its really costing you, not the €200 you are using. Then see what the ROI is for that difference. I think you'll find the payback is very long. Even trying to future proof it now to add extra batteries later won't justify it, imo. Having a battery in the mix increases the cost of the inverter, labour, and obviously the battery itself. The €1k grant just about covers the increased inverter cost. Focussing on drawing down the €1k battery grant is fool-hardy, again, imo. Opinions duely noted. However, since the battery grant is only available at the same time as installing the solar PV I would argue that it also fool-hardy to dismiss it hastingly. There are some other considerations that just ROI. The right battery system can be used in the event of a power cut. Granted, 2.5kwh won’t last too long however if resticted to some lighting for example it would last for a number of hours - longer than most power outages I would imagine. With kids in the house I think this is a distinct plus. It should also give somewhat of a buffer between the night and day tariffs. I don’t see any SEAI registered company supplying and installing a 3.2kw system with diverter for much under €4000 after the grant. My proposed system will be around €5000 after grant with hybrid inverter, eddi and 2.5kwh battery. IF I get 5 years out of the battery, is any savings and peace of mind from some back up power worth €200 per year? To me - yes.
KCross wrote: » Is your motivation to get a battery entirely to save money? If it is, I think you are comparing the wrong figures. Its not really €200 extra. You need to get a quote for the same system without a battery. The difference between those two quotes is what its really costing you, not the €200 you are using. Then see what the ROI is for that difference. I think you'll find the payback is very long. Even trying to future proof it now to add extra batteries later won't justify it, imo. Having a battery in the mix increases the cost of the inverter, labour, and obviously the battery itself. The €1k grant just about covers the increased inverter cost. Focussing on drawing down the €1k battery grant is fool-hardy, again, imo.
gunnerfitzy wrote: » Granted, 2.5kwh won’t last too long however if resticted to some lighting for example it would last for a number of hours
gunnerfitzy wrote: » The net cost for the 2.5kwh battery is around €2/300 for me considering the €1k battery grant and the difference in solar grant (there is a cap at €1400 if you don’t get the battery). It might be less for you as you are looking at a 4kw array, mine is likely to be 3.2kw. My thinking is to get the 2.5kwh battery now with the solar. It’s a small battery for the system but you get the infrastructure in place and it’s should be relatively simple to add another battery at a later stage. I just can’t see the ROI of the 5kwh battery over the 2.5kwh battery.
KCross wrote: » I see a whole load of stuff there Shef but what does it cost when you put all the pieces together..... there's flashings, hooks, runners, bits 'n bobs in the quotes... I can't really tell how much a full installation kit is from the website you posted. Do you have the total cost of the mounting parts for 14 panels on a slate roof?
wexfordman2 wrote: » Ok, I've got a bit of a quandry now. So, to date I have a quote of 11k for 4kwp solar with 5kw battery and hybrid inverter and eddi water heater equating to 7k after seai grant Yesterday, was speaking to another company y who told me the battery was a poor invesent and should avoid it. He offered a 3.5kwp system for a cost of 5,100 after grant (which I think is expensive actually. So for 1900 euro extra I am getting 4kwp instead of 3.5kwp and also a 5kwh battery with hybrid inverter meaning I can charge up at night time Any thoughts ?
Shefwedfan wrote: » Mounting systems here look cheaperhttps://solartricity.ie/products/roof-mountings-system/
KCross wrote: » One quote I got was for 4.1kWp with 5kW Hybrid inverter with 4.8kWh battery was about €7100 inc vat after grant The breakdown inc vat before grant was this.... TSM-295 Panels|€205x14 5kW Solis Hybrid Inverter|€1800 Valk Solar mount system|€1295 Labour|€1900 4.8kWh PylonTech battery|(€2700+€300 install) Misc (Cables, isolators RCBOs)|€300 The Valk mounting system parts seemed ridiculous to me but maybe they are that price?!
unkel wrote: » All those prices seem very high to me. Looks like you were right about the installers inflating parts prices. From a well known Irish website these are prices available to the public (so not including trade discounts): Solis 5kW hybrid inverter is 1298 + VAT, not 1800 Very good quality 300W mono panel is 148 + VAT, not 205 4.8kWh battery is 1900 + VAT, not 2700 Labour at 1900 and a mounting system for 1300 how? Someone is making a very hefty profit here!
wexfordman2 wrote: » The other thing, is if I am not borrowing to pay for it, and I had the money for the battery sitting in the bank, would it not be earning more for me as a battery than as a deposit ?
unkel wrote: » Mind sharing the breakdown of the quote in parts (detailed), labour and VAT, or did they just give you a bottom line figure?
unkel wrote: » You have PV, so that was before the subsidies came in? What were you quoted and how was it broken down in material and labour?
wexfordman2 wrote: » Thanks, I have two other reasons for.considering battery though. First, we use night saver, so should be able to charge battery and use during the day at night rate.
KCross wrote: » The only set of figures that made any sense for me based on my consumption and the quotes I got were to put in a 2.4kWp system with no batteries and even then the payback was ~12yrs.
