Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 9:46am

markodaly wrote: »

Dropping in the words 'Final Solution' and talks about land conquests are well known tropes popular with Hamas, Deash and others who hate Jews.

You accused me of "blood liable". When did I say Jews were sacrificing christian children and using their blood in religious ceremonies? I stated the fact that the Zionists who run Israel do not want a two state solution and have stated as much when saying "there will never be a Palestinian state" dozens of times, and proven as much by expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank and slowly rendering Gaza uninhabitable through an illegal blockade and regularly scheduled illegal jaunts into Gaza to drop ordinance and chemical weapons on civilian populations, destroying infrastructure and health services, and generally acting the prick every time there's an election of political scandal.

markodaly · 15-05-2018 9:49am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Because the Oslo Accord didn't offer a two state solution along the 1967 armistice lines or anything like it.

You mean the Palestinians wanted to offer nothing in return? Why would have the Israelis agreed to that?

It was all on the line in the Camp David negotiations of 2000. Arafat the fool walked away with most of what he wanted.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 15-05-2018 10:00am

Rezident wrote: »

The Palestinians are deliberately sacrificing their own children just for anti-Israel PR! That is evil. Foolish of Palestinian kids to attack soldiers but they are only kids and their leaders are encouraging them.

Hamas is encouraging more Palestinians to attack the border today. They KNOW this equals more dead children. Their own children! Why are they so hateful and evil!?

there is nothing new about this or the depths of depravity to which they will willingly sink, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44104887

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 10:04am

markodaly wrote: »

You mean the Palestinians wanted to offer nothing in return? Why would have the Israelis agreed to that?

It was all on the line in the Camp David negotiations of 2000. Arafat the fool walked away with most of what he wanted.

you mean when Israel offered land in the Negev Desert that was 1/10th the size of the land they wanted to annex in The West bank, which would have split the West Bank into three separate areas, losing most of it's water sources and most productive agricultural lands, displacing thousands of Palestinian families?

Again, Israel's final offer was nothing close to the 1967 armistice lines. Israel withdrew from the negotiations when Arafat declined their offer and pushed for some concessions.

why do you purposely ignore Taba? why do all Israeli apologists ignore Taba?

Because you can't defend it. Even the Israeli foreign minister at the time admitted Israel reneged on the agreement they'd reached at Taba "The pressure of Israeli public opinion against the talks could not be resisted,” and later admitted that he had received a phone call in the middle of the night before the agreement was due to be signed from his superior in Tel Aviv saying if they signed the deal the military had threatened to over throw the government.
Following the election war criminal Ariel Sharon stated that "s not by accident that the settlements are located where they are". going on to state;

They safeguard the cradle of the Jewish people’s birth and also provide strategic depth which is vital to our existence.The settlements were established according to the conception that, come what may, we have to hold the western security area [of the West Bank], which is adjacent to the Green Line, and the eastern security area along the Jordan River and the roads linking the two. And Jerusalem, of course. And the hill aquifer. Nothing has changed with respect to any of those things. The importance of the security areas has not diminished, it may even have increased. So I see no reason for evacuating any settlements.

Everything Israel does in Palestine is to undermine the possibility of a two state solution. Every action they make in the occupied territories betrays the lies they repeat in public about wanting to find a peaceful solution.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 15-05-2018 10:13am

anybody who thinks there will be a 2 state solution is a fool. hamas know this, Israelis know this, even Donald knows this. Israel will NEVER deal with these people. Palestinians will NEVER deal with Jews. The killing, the hatred, the barbarity has gone way past that.

the only solution left is a military one, and it looks like the guys with the blue n white flags have already won that one.

Akrasia · 15-05-2018 10:25am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The kids are the victims. I'm not blaming them.

I blame the Palestinian "Politicians".

What could the palestinian politicians possibly do that would improve the situation for the people in Gaza and the west bank?

There is no plan for the people of palestine other than ethnic cleansing. The Israelis are just waiting for their next excuse to bomb them and steal more land.

The Palestinian politicians have called for a return to the agreed 1967 borders, but Israel have absolutely no intention of giving up their illegal settlements. The palestinians are absolutely screwed, they're never going to get their own country, and they'll never be allowed to become free citizens of Israel because there will always be a resistance that makes them too much of a security threat to Israel. I'd say they would grudgingly accept current borders and no more land grabs if they could trust that the zionists would respect that and negotiate a sustainable peace and lift the economic blockades, but does anyone really think that Israel would allow even that?

Israel provoke responses all the time, and its inevitable that they will get violent reactions eventually, and then this is used as an excuse for widespread collective punishment against the ordinary people in palestine.

People blame the palestinians for hating Israel. From their perspective, they're being exterminated by the Israelis.

Zebra3 · 15-05-2018 10:26am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

"Israel has a right to defend it's borders"

What borders? It has never declared it's borders. There's is no border, there are armistice lines, which are protected by buffer zones that are several hundred meters deep on both sides, the protesters weren't even breaching the buffer zones, never mind the armistice lines.

In 1649 Cromwell came to Ireland with the intention of solving the Irish "problem" once and for all with a policy of "to hell or to Connacht".

the fundamentalist Zionist lunatics who rule the state of Israeli share Cromwell's vision but want the complete removal of Palestinians from their lands, in their mind there isn't even a Connacht the Palestinians can have, they just want them gone whether it's through actively driving them from their land or making their living conditions so bad they leave by choice.

The current psychopath who rules Israel has said dozens of times "there will never be a Palestinian state".

The Palestinian national council accepted the Israeli state in 1988 and again in 1993. Hamas has accepted a 2 state solution and agreed to negotiate the same, the PA has accepted that the 1967 armistice lines will have to be amended slightly to make them more manageable with like for like land swaps. The entire Arab league has had an offer on the table, supported by all Palestinian parties and the international community for over a decade which would provide for a two state solution.

The only side who do not want a two state solution is Israel.
That's why they won't negotiate.
That's why they murdered Rabin.
That's why when his murderer was released he was treated as a hero by the Israeli right.
That's why the Israeli military threatened a coup when Ehud Barak and his foreign minister Ben-Ami were close to an agreement during the summit in Taba in 2001.
That's why 75% of Israeli voters polled in the 2001 election cycle said Barak was "giving too much away" by agreeing to the dismantlement of settlements and withdraw from Palestine to within the 1967 armistice lines despite even the Israeli government at the time admitting that it was the Palestinians who made almost all concessions during the negotiations.

Israel does not want a two state solution, they want a final solution to the Palestinian "problem" but instead of "to hell or to Connacht" it's just to hell.

To hell or to Gaza.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 10:27am

Zebra3 wrote: »

To hell or to Gaza.

Same thing in a few years.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 15-05-2018 10:35am

Alas there is no future for Palestine or the Palestinian people. Like the Red Indians of the great plains, or the Aboriginals of Australasia they have lost. Apart from a quasi-intellectual discussion on Channel 4, the world does not care.

smurgen · 15-05-2018 10:36am

Look the the fox news spin on this and your blood will boil.this is why the world hates america.

Captain Obvious · 15-05-2018 10:38am

smurgen wrote: »

Look the the fox news spin on this and your blood will boil.this is why the world hates america.

And Israel. After all the **** they pull on Ireland I don't know why they have an embassy here.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 10:40am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And Israel. After all the **** they pull on Ireland I don't know why they have an embassy here.

An embassy that is costing us hundreds of thousands per year and millions over the duration of it's lease.

nullzero · 15-05-2018 10:42am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

No-one said the Palestinians had to riot and act the bollocks because an embassy opened.

But they did.

Nobody said the Palestinians had to start invading the border of Israel despite being warned numerous times not to do so.

But they did.

Jesus H Christ.
How bloody ignorant can one person be?
When you dehumanize people and treat them like filth they tend to try to fight their corner.
Have you any idea what's been going on there for the last 70 years? You and the people who thanked your post.

ArchXStanton · 15-05-2018 10:43am

smurgen wrote: »

Look the the fox news spin on this and your blood will boil.this is why the world hates america.

I see the US has blocked another UN proposal on an investigation into this blood bath...so much for the world's policeman,hope boards resident US cheerleaders are taking note

jcorr · 15-05-2018 10:43am

Does anyone know who opened fire first the Palestinians or Israelis?

Zebra3 · 15-05-2018 10:49am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I see the US has blocked another UN proposal on an investigation into this blood bath...so much for the world's policeman,hope boards resident US cheerleaders are taking note

Just like the US blocked Iran’s complaint against Saddam for war crimes following the Iraqi attack on Iran.

Then a few years later, the US and its’ fanboys are telling the rest of us that Saddam is evil. :rolleyes:

The US was delighted then when Saddam was taken out and hanged fairly swiftly.

Last thing they wanted was him speaking up in an international court about how the US supported his war crimes.

And sure who cares about justice for those Iranian civilians he had gassed?

kildare lad · 15-05-2018 10:51am

Israel are the modern day nazi's. They dont care about international law, they keep the Palestinians in the worlds biggest concentration camps. Backed by America ,they think they can do what they want. Trump knew by moving the embassy it would cause trouble, 60 people dead so trump and his jew donors can feel good about themselves. They're scum, all America has ever done in the middle east is, invade, bomb, de-stablized the region, sold arms, so that they can get cheap oil. America and Israel have a license to kill and they do a very good job at it

tayto lover · 15-05-2018 10:52am

Time for Coveney to tell the Israeli Ambassador to pack up and leave.
None of this cowardly calling him in for a meeting. That's just bulls**t cosmetics.
Time to grow a pair Simon.

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 10:53am

nullzero wrote: »

Jesus H Christ.
How bloody ignorant can one person be?
When you dehumanize people and treat them like filth they tend to try to fight their corner.
Have you any idea what's been going on there for the last 70 years? You and the people who thanked your post.

Do you??

This conflict has two sides... if it didn't, it would be an easy fix for the international community!

Zebra3 · 15-05-2018 10:54am

tayto lover wrote: »

Time for Coveney to tell the Israeli Ambassador to pack up and leave.
None of this cowardly calling him in for a meeting. That's just bulls**t cosmetics.
Time to grow a pair Simon.

Someone as limp wristed as him would never do anything that might upset the Americans.

Independent state? :rolleyes:

tayto lover · 15-05-2018 10:57am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Do you??

This conflict has two sides... if it didn't, it would be an easy fix for the international community!

Nothing to do with the international community as such. The Yanks have all the control. The rest fear going against them. Simple.
Israel has been breaching international law for donkey's years with U.S. backing.

nullzero · 15-05-2018 11:01am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Do you??

This conflict has two sides... if it didn't, it would be an easy fix for the international community!

Two equal sides?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 11:07am

tayto lover wrote: »

Nothing to do with the international community as such. The Yanks have all the control. The rest fear going against them. Simple.
Israel has been breaching international law for donkey's years with U.S. backing.

Oh okay.... I didn't realise the conflict in the middle east was "Simple"....

Here was me, thinking it was a complex problem with many factors... and two sides with differing views! lol

Let me make some calls, I'll try to explain this to some of the chaps over there! :P

(or perhaps there are a few too many simpletons in this thread - who hold very one-sided viewpoints on a very complex issue?) :rolleyes:

tayto lover · 15-05-2018 11:11am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Oh okay.... I didn't realise the conflict in the middle east was "Simple"....

Here was me, thinking it was a complex problem with many factors... and two sides with differing views! lol

Let me make some calls, I'll try to explain this to some of the chaps over there! :P

(or perhaps there are a few too many simpletons in this thread - who hold very one-sided viewpoints on a very complex issue?) :rolleyes:

Not that complicated at all. It is actually simple.
The bigger bully with an even bigger bully's backing walks all over the little fellow.

Gringo180 · 15-05-2018 11:14am

America. The biggest supporter of terrorism on the planet. Alot may not know it but deep down they have ZERO credibility on the world stage.

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 11:20am

tayto lover wrote: »

Not that complicated at all. It is actually simple.

Okay... :pac:

So now you've solved the middle east quandary... what's next on your hit list? Time travel? Cure for cancer?

tayto lover · 15-05-2018 11:23am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Okay... :pac:

So now you've solved the middle east quandary... what's next on your hit list? Time travel? Cure for cancer?

You can surround the Israeli / Palestinian conflict with any kind of cosmetics you wish but it is just what i've said.;)

15-05-2018 11:24am

Deedsie wrote: »

Do catapults count as fire?

Trebuchets are the superior siege weapon.

ArchXStanton · 15-05-2018 11:24am

Gringo180 wrote: »

America. The biggest supporter of terrorism on the planet. Alot may not know it but deep down they have ZERO credibility on the world stage.

Two rogue nations that should be internationally sanctioned,if there is one positive at least the world is waking up to this fact,even the EU as much as I detest them

dublinbuster · 15-05-2018 11:29am

jews vs muslims in a fight to the death
all we need now is india vs pakistan to kick off

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 11:45am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Two rogue nations that should be internationally sanctioned,if there is one positive at least the world is waking up to this fact,even the EU as much as I detest them

So what will they do, now that they're all so "woke"... ?? :P

I'm so glad I came into this thread... I am now "woke" too... I see clearly now. This middle east thing is so straight forward.

The simpletons always want a very clear "good guy / bad guy" dynamic... Anything else just hurts their brains. So even when there is no such clear dynamic at play, they simply invent it in their little overworked brains!

ArchXStanton · 15-05-2018 11:54am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So what will they do, now that they're all so "woke"... ?? :P

I'm so glad I came into this thread... I am now "woke" too... I see clearly now. This middle east thing is so straight forward.

The simpletons always want a very clear "good guy / bad guy" dynamic... Anything else just hurts their brains. So even when there is no such clear dynamic at play, they simply invent it in their little overworked brains!

Waking up to the fact that the US isn't the world's policeman intent on doing good,Assad must go! But Israel's war crimes are A-OK,let's be straight here anything the US does is for its own and Israel's interests.

Odhinn · 15-05-2018 11:56am

markodaly wrote: »

Dropping in the words 'Final Solution' and talks about land conquests are well known tropes popular with Hamas, Deash and others who hate Jews.

Why did you accuse him of making the blood libel?

tayto lover · 15-05-2018 11:56am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So what will they do, now that they're all so "woke"... ?? :P

I'm so glad I came into this thread... I am now "woke" too... I see clearly now. This middle east thing is so straight forward.

The simpletons always want a very clear "good guy / bad guy" dynamic... Anything else just hurts their brains. So even when there is no such clear dynamic at play, they simply invent it in their little overworked brains!

Well they didn't have to look too hard in this one then.:pac:
The land-grabbers were very obvious from the word GO.

zapitastas · 15-05-2018 11:57am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So what will they do, now that they're all so "woke"... ?? :P

I'm so glad I came into this thread... I am now "woke" too... I see clearly now. This middle east thing is so straight forward.

The simpletons always want a very clear "good guy / bad guy" dynamic... Anything else just hurts their brains. So even when there is no such clear dynamic at play, they simply invent it in their little overworked brains!

Well the causes of the situation are really quite straightforward. The solution is a mess and gets more complicated and further away with each year. While the best solution would be for Israel to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders , I think that effectively the two state solution is dead and will never happen. The only other option is for there to be one democratic multi-cultural state and that is defintely out of sync with the racist and sectarian nature of the current Israeli state.

nullzero · 15-05-2018 11:58am

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So what will they do, now that they're all so "woke"... ?? :P

I'm so glad I came into this thread... I am now "woke" too... I see clearly now. This middle east thing is so straight forward.

The simpletons always want a very clear "good guy / bad guy" dynamic... Anything else just hurts their brains. So even when there is no such clear dynamic at play, they simply invent it in their little overworked brains!

What the hell are you on about?
Your inability to make.sense is the only thing hurting anyone's brain here.
The Israeli Palestinian issue is complex, we all know that, thanks for clearing it up for us.

Odhinn · 15-05-2018 12:03pm

nullzero wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?
Your inability to make.sense is the only thing hurting anyone's brain here.
The Israeli Palestinian issue is complex, we all know that, thanks for clearing it up for us.

It's not that complex really. Israel keeps annexing palestinian land. Israel is protected from UN sanction for doing so by its ally the US. The continued occupation and land theft creates groups and individuals which, having no legal route to pursue, take up arms.

Mutant z · 15-05-2018 12:06pm

The Palestinian population has risen by 7 or 8 fold since 1948 so its a strange sort of genocide that the Israelis are supposedly carrying out.

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 12:07pm

zapitastas wrote: »

Well the causes of the situation are really quite straightforward. The solution is a mess and gets more complicated and further away with each year. While the best solution would be for Israel to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders , I think that effectively the two state solution is dead and will never happen. The only other option is for there to be one democratic multi-cultural state and that is defintely out of sync with the racist and sectarian nature of the current Israeli state conflict on both sides.

Fixed that for you...

Remember, two sides to this conflict. Plenty of hatred to be shared around...

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 12:07pm

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not that complex really. Israel keeps annexing palestinian land. Israel is protected from UN sanction for doing so by its ally the US. The continued occupation and land theft creates groups and individuals which, having no legal route to pursue, take up arms.

And when they take up arms they are derided by the west, especially the west, as terrorists, despite international law being explicit about the right of occupied peoples to resist by force.
And then they don't take up arms and peacefully protest they are accused of agitating their occupiers and stirring up tensions and causing "clashes" when Israel indiscriminately murders and injures thousands of them.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 12:08pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Fixed that for you...

Remember, two sides to this conflict. Plenty of hatred to be shared around...

But which side is illegally occupying, blockading, and ethnically cleansing the other?

Oh, right, yeah, that would be the apartheid state of Israel.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 12:11pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Why did you accuse him of making the blood libel?

Because when you can't rebut international law and historical facts all you have is the ole reliable cry of "omg antisemitism!!!".

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 12:15pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But which side is....

Nope!

Two sides to this conflict...

People who fail to recognise this fact, are simply adding to the problem!

I'm sorry if your brain can't comprehend the true nature of this thing. (It's complicated - not simple!)

Odhinn · 15-05-2018 12:16pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope!

Two sides to this conflict...

People who fail to recognise this fact, are simply adding to the problem!

I'm sorry if your brain can't comprehend the true nature of this thing. (It's complicated - not simple!)

Explain, if you will, how its complicated.

Subcomandante Marcos · 15-05-2018 12:19pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope!

Two sides to this conflict...

People who fail to recognise this fact, are simply adding to the problem!

I'm sorry if your brain can't comprehend the true nature of this thing. (It's complicated - not simple!)

Nope, you're making excuses for the breaking of international law, human rights abuses, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing. Stop trying to pretend you're doing anything else. Deflectionist nonsense pandering to an audience of bigots and psychopaths.

15-05-2018 12:27pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope!

Two sides to this conflict...

People who fail to recognise this fact, are simply adding to the problem!

I'm sorry if your brain can't comprehend the true nature of this thing. (It's complicated - not simple!)

That's actually hilarious. You couldn't quote the full post because of what it contained.

nullzero · 15-05-2018 12:27pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Nope!

I'm sorry if your brain can't comprehend the true nature of this thing. (It's complicated - not simple!)

Are you a narcissist by any chance?

ThinkProgress · 15-05-2018 12:29pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Nope, you're making excuses for human the breaking of international law, human rights abuses, arm crimes, and ethnic cleansing. Stop trying to pretend you're doing anything else. Deflectionist nonsense pandering to an audience of bigots and psychopaths.

What, like all the people professing not to be anti-semitic?? lol

Give me a break...

Doth protest too much, methinks...

Like I said - Two sides - should be obvious, but bears repeating!

nullzero · 15-05-2018 12:30pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

What, like all the people professing not to be anti-semitic?? lol

Give me a break...

Doth protest too much, methinks...

Like I said - Two sides!

So if somebody takes issue with human rights violations carried out by Israel they're only doing so because they dislike Jews?

Odhinn · 15-05-2018 12:32pm

ThinkProgress wrote: »

What, like all the people professing not to be anti-semitic?? lol

Give me a break...

Doth protest too much, methinks...

Like I said - Two sides - should be obvious, but bears repeating!

....are you going to explain to us these complexities you refer to?

Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

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