How is China getting on?

Glaceon · 12-05-2021 11:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

Sky News Australia news readers obviously undergo training from Tucker Carlsson. All about presenting a polemic direct to camera. But this comes from people who's job is to read an autocue. Would have some credibility if they at least interviewed someone qualified to speak on the matter

Sky News Australia is the Australian version of Fox News and is under the same Murdoch ownership. They have no corporate connection to Sky UK anymore, which is owned by NBC/Comcast. I'm surprised that they can keep using the Sky name.

12-05-2021 11:16am

Flinty997 wrote: »

So what you're really asking people is to believe that China is taking the truth. When China never tells the truth about anything.

They are hardly North Korea. There are millions of smartphones. Probably more than a billion.

Also why do people believe that China is an authoritarian state and also that their lockdowns wouldn’t work. They locked people into apartment blocks. That kind of thing works.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 11:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland: My mum worried about getting stopped by police going to the park because of distance limits.
Vietnam and China: Months at a time with people not wearing masks or even thinking about Covid-19. Then outbreak and masks. Then eradicated and back to no masks.

Yeah, police states.

Also, you're asking how it got out of Wuhan, before anyone knew it existed, when international controls are about keeping something out, and not in?

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 11:23am

fvp4 wrote: »

They are hardly North Korea. There are millions of smartphones. Probably more than a billion.

Also why do people believe that China is an authoritarian state and also that their lockdowns wouldn’t work. They locked people into apartment blocks. That kind of thing works.

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

12-05-2021 11:31am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Vietnam has stopped it multiple times. I teach in a school of five thousand students here and there is quite simply no way there is a hidden pandemic. No one thinks there is outside of some posters on this website. Based on my experience here and from talking to my friends in China, I don't see why their experience with very similar measures wouldn't have worked.

And it makes sense. You're speaking from experience in a country where the infected are allowed live with their families and where airports were opened for a year, and still are with nonsense lists. You simply don't know what a proper response looks like.

12-05-2021 11:36am

Flinty997 wrote: »

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

Why except China? They've vaccinated a large percentage of their population already. I know, for a fact, that all the university students and faculty members in Xi'an have all been given the vaccine. Also many of the cities have given free vaccination to foreigners living in China. That's pretty impressive, all in all.

The steps in dealing with covid might be different but the end result is the same.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 11:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

Vietnam has stopped it multiple times. I teach in a school of five thousand students here and there is quite simply no way there is a hidden pandemic. No one thinks there is outside of some posters on this website. Based on my experience here and from talking to my friends in China, I don't see why their experience with very similar measures wouldn't have worked.

And it makes sense. You're speaking from experience in a country where the infected are allowed live with their families and where airports were opened for a year, and still are with nonsense lists. You simply don't know what a proper response looks like.

I've no idea what's happening and don't really care.

But if you've stopped it multiple times. You've never actually stopped it. It a oxymoron if thats the right word.

12-05-2021 11:45am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Its not possible to have spread it externally, without first spreading it internally.
Its chicken and egg.

Except, all it takes is one person with the virus to travel internationally for it to spread. Look at the Italian doctor working in Spain (or was it the other way around), who came into contact with many people, and unintentionally spread the virus.

There's no requirement on a large percentage of a population needing to have the virus before it can spread elsewhere.

No country has managed to contain spreading it internally. The only ones to buck that trend. Are a remote Island, or a Police state with a history of disinformation.

S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc have all managed to limit/contain the spread of the virus effectively. Although, they have all very strict cultures and are used to managing their populations.

When you place greater importance on individual freedoms (the west) over the greater good (Asia), then, your ability to limit the spread will be greatly affected.

Also in every country its mostly hit the elderly and that really only been stopped with Vaccine roll out. Yet China has a slow rollout of the vaccine and not to the elderly. Should be much worse than other places, but somehow isn't.

Agreed (about the elderly). Although, their rollout hasn't been that slow. Its just the overall size of their population that gives the impression that it's been slow... in comparison with other nations, they've been quite quick to supply vaccines to the population.

12-05-2021 11:46am

Flinty997 wrote: »

You only really really fix pandemics with herd immunity through vaccines.

Except China.

That’s the long term fix. Lockdowns work, as they did here for a while and in New Zealand.

12-05-2021 11:48am

Flinty997 wrote: »

I've no idea what's happening and don't really care.

But if you've stopped it multiple times. You've never actually stopped it. It a oxymoron if thats the right word.

Why are you posting here?

And if the rest of the world stopped it as well, it would be gone. But there is some illegal entry from China, Laos and Cambodia, and there was also cross contamination between an Indian delegation and a Chinese one in hotel quarantine. They've upped it to three weeks now in response.

If you don't understand that a country can stop it, and then it comes back, as if that's an oxymoron, you're not fit to talk about this topic. It's like saying you never got rid of the hiccups because you hiccuped again months later.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 11:55am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why except China? They've vaccinated a large percentage of their population already. I know, for a fact, that all the university students and faculty members in Xi'an have all been given the vaccine. Also many of the cities have given free vaccination to foreigners living in China. That's pretty impressive, all in all.

The steps in dealing with covid might be different but the end result is the same.

I didn't know about China Vaccines until a friend mentioned their parents are too old to get vaccinated. You've claimed they've done a large % of the population. Other sources say they been slow, and the vaccine have low protection rates. I only fact check it, if someone makes claim like you did.

All can't right, and the stats don't seem to align with any of these strategies, for example no vaccinating the elderly.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 12:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you posting here?

Maybe I should have said I'm not invested in it. I'm just a curious observer.

Deleted User wrote: »

And if the rest of the world stopped it as well, it would be gone. But there is some illegal entry from China, Laos and Cambodia, and there was also cross contamination between an Indian delegation and a Chinese one in hotel quarantine. They've upped it to three weeks now in response.

If you don't understand that a country can stop it, and then it comes back, as if that's an oxymoron, you're not fit to talk about this topic. It's like saying you never got rid of the hiccups because you hiccuped again months later.

Lockdown slows it. But doesn't stop it. Which why there's outbreaks and surges. A hard lockdown is better. But still not watertight. So the idea that they completely eliminated it, pre vaccine with lock downs doesn't really hold water.

12-05-2021 12:03pm

archer22 wrote: »

What's all the "CCP" nonsense here

The name of the country is "The Peoples Republic of China" or PRC.

Those who keep calling it the CCP obviously have an agenda not an opinion :rolleyes:

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 12:06pm

fvp4 wrote: »

That’s the long term fix. Lockdowns work, as they did here for a while and in New Zealand.

Agreed. But its not the silver bullet even in a remote island. So can't possible be anywhere else.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 12:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

What other parties are there and what's their influence.

12-05-2021 12:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The ruling party in China is the Chinese Communist Party. They are in charge and make the rules. The PRC is the country.

Its exactly the same as people commenting on the actions of our government by saying FF/FG.

I've never heard anyone describe the actions of Ireland (the nation) by the name of the ruling party. Within Ireland, by Irish people, sure, but I've never heard such a thing being applied to other national behavior.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 12:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Except, all it takes is one person with the virus to travel internationally for it to spread. Look at the Italian doctor working in Spain (or was it the other way around), who came into contact with many people, and unintentionally spread the virus.

There's no requirement on a large percentage of a population needing to have the virus before it can spread elsewhere.

It not the immaculate conception. It can't be exported, unless you have it internally. You can't do things like only test people with symptoms, only report people with symptoms, not vaccine the elderly, etc, and not have it internally. Yes they have a strict lockdown, but they also lifted it every quickly. Everywhere else lifting the lockdown caused a massive surges, even with much smaller populations. It maybe due to other factors like genetics, and other things.

Deleted User wrote: »

S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc have all managed to limit/contain the spread of the virus effectively. Although, they have all very strict cultures and are used to managing their populations.

When you place greater importance on individual freedoms (the west) over the greater good (Asia), then, your ability to limit the spread will be greatly affected.

Agreed

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed (about the elderly). Although, their rollout hasn't been that slow. Its just the overall size of their population that gives the impression that it's been slow... in comparison with other nations, they've been quite quick to supply vaccines to the population.

They were months ahead of the entire world, but are behind in vaccines relative to their population and the rest of the world. The rest of the world need the Vaccine to get any traction on the pandamic, to get close to what China achieved without it.

12-05-2021 12:29pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Maybe I should have said I'm not invested in it. I'm just a curious observer.

Lockdown slows it. But doesn't stop it. Which why there's outbreaks and surges. A hard lockdown is better. But still not watertight. So the idea that they completely eliminated it, pre vaccine with lock downs doesn't really hold water.

*Cough *cough Taiwan *cough Vietnam *cough *cough

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 12:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

*Cough *cough Taiwan *cough Vietnam *cough *cough

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

12-05-2021 12:33pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

What other parties are there and what's their influence.

There are 8 other parties. Their influence is zero.

12-05-2021 12:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never heard anyone describe the actions of Ireland (the nation) by the name of the ruling party. Within Ireland, by Irish people, sure, but I've never heard such a thing being applied to other national behavior.

Maybe thats because the ruling party in Ireland changes every few years. China has had the same one for 72 years.

The CCP is a relatively small number of people. I think it is reasonable to refer to the actions of the CCP, not the 1.1 billion people they rule.

12-05-2021 12:53pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

Lets not start WWIII over it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

12-05-2021 12:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe thats because the ruling party in Ireland changes every few years. China has had the same one for 72 years.

The CCP is a relatively small number of people. I think it is reasonable to refer to the actions of the CCP, not the 1.1 billion people they rule.

Do you refer to India's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) when talking about what India has done?

Do you do the same with the US with regards to their two parties? I doubt it.

12-05-2021 1:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you refer to India's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) when talking about what India has done?

Do you do the same with the US with regards to their two parties? I doubt it.

What exactly is your problem with me referring to the CCP?

I don't follow much news in India.

When the US does something yes, I might refer to the actions of Biden or his predecessor, what was his name again?

Yesterday was the Queens Speech in the UK. It wasn't the speech of the people of the United Kingdom.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 1:28pm

So how is China getting on. Better than us.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-just-surpassed-china-in-the-number-of-confirmed-covid-19-deaths-how-on-earth-did-that-happen-2021-04-21

About 15% of China’s population has been vaccinated against COVID-19, as of Sunday

Whereas in Ireland,

25% of eligible population has received at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine....10 per cent of the eligible population had received a second dose of the vaccines.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-25-of-eligible-population-has-received-at-least-one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-1.4545673

MikeSoys · 12-05-2021 1:34pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/china-has-used-pandemic-to-boost-global-image-report-says

12-05-2021 1:38pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

Ok. So what’s the story and how does it fortify your position?

12-05-2021 1:45pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

So how is China getting on. Better than us.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-just-surpassed-china-in-the-number-of-confirmed-covid-19-deaths-how-on-earth-did-that-happen-2021-04-21

Whereas in Ireland,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-25-of-eligible-population-has-received-at-least-one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-1.4545673

My only source of first hand information is in Shaghai, but there life is back to normal. Everything is open.

They are faster for implementing restrictions. If the CCP decided they needed another lockdown, it would start at, say, 3pm that day, and they would have no qualms announcing it at 2.30pm. Here, Michael Martin would announce it on a Monday to start at midnight on Thursday.

China had hotel quarantines last March. It took us a year to implement them here.

12-05-2021 2:01pm

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

12-05-2021 2:33pm

fvp4 wrote: »

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

My friend in Shanghai has been back at work since well before Christmas. Had lunch out today. Mask wearing was common before covid, so its no major effort to get the population to wear them.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 2:56pm

fvp4 wrote: »

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

They had people having gigantic pool parties in Wuhan back in Aug. They Lifted their lockdown 9 months ago. That's all pre vaccine.
So they did all this without vaccines. Which is amazing.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 3:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My only source of first hand information is in Shaghai, but there life is back to normal. Everything is open.

They are faster for implementing restrictions. If the CCP decided they needed another lockdown, it would start at, say, 3pm that day, and they would have no qualms announcing it at 2.30pm. Here, Michael Martin would announce it on a Monday to start at midnight on Thursday.

China had hotel quarantines last March. It took us a year to implement them here.

Fair enough. But they've had surges, they've had breakouts. So its not gone. Its still around.

On one one hand we say they keep having lock downs, but on the other side we are told they are back to normal, and none knows anyone who has ever had Covid. Massive schools not one case.

I'm not saying it all can't be true. But its weird and inconsistent.

12-05-2021 3:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with me referring to the CCP?

Because it's a stance that directs a bias. By focusing on the CCP all the time, as opposed to the PRC/China, you lose neutrality, due to all the negative associations linked to the CCP. I find it reinforces the pushing of an agenda.

In any case, I wasn't the first person to object your usage of CCP all the time. I couldn't care less that you assume such a position. Although, I'll happily point to the double standards applied.

I don't follow much news in India.

When the US does something yes, I might refer to the actions of Biden or his predecessor, what was his name again?

Yesterday was the Queens Speech in the UK. It wasn't the speech of the people of the United Kingdom.

As I said, for you, it only applies to China and the CCP. Thanks. You showed clearly the bias that you hold.

12-05-2021 3:30pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Fair enough. But they've had surges, they've had breakouts. So its not gone. Its still around.

Of course it's still around. There is no cure, and vaccinations aren't going to stop covid from existing.

On one one hand we say they keep having lock downs, but on the other side we are told they are back to normal, and none knows anyone who has ever had Covid. Massive schools not one case.

I'm not saying it all can't be true. But its weird and inconsistent.

It's not really inconsistent. Flashpoints occur where groups of people get covid, the authorities step in, lockdowns are instigated, and then, when the risk diminishes, the lockdowns are lifted. Rinse and repeat.

The country, for the most part, is back to normal. That's not to say that they're not taking precautions, or that covid doesn't affect people. They've simply decided to run the risk, so that their economy gets back up and running.

There will continue to be outbreaks of covid, and they will continue to respond to them, while encouraging others in the rest of the country to return to normal living.

12-05-2021 4:16pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

They had people having gigantic pool parties in Wuhan back in Aug. They Lifted their lockdown 9 months ago. That's all pre vaccine.
So they did all this without vaccines. Which is amazing.

Its not in the least bit amazing. They totally locked down in the one city at the epicentre. They have huge internal restrictions on travel. They tightly controlled external travel.

Also this claim that the virus could only have been fully defeated with vaccines is not true either. It won't in fact be defeated with Vaccines, we will need boosters every so often. There will be breakouts and china had some.

thebaz · 12-05-2021 5:24pm

archer22 wrote: »

What's all the "CCP" nonsense here

The name of the country is "The Peoples Republic of China" or PRC.

Those who keep calling it the CCP obviously have an agenda not an opinion :rolleyes:

or you could see it as a way of not blaming the Chinese people for accusations of negligense or misinformation, but the CCP have questions to answer, given damage caused to rest of world. How virus originated is a legitimate and important question, since we dont want it to happen again.

thebaz · 12-05-2021 5:39pm

The BBC have reported today on an Independent report , pointing much criticism on WHO , I myself have been sceptical and critical of the WHO response, from masks to its sluggish initial response, maybe the whole disaster could have been avoided, but we certainly need to learn lessons and act .
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-57085505

12-05-2021 5:50pm

Yeah, February 2020 in that report singled out. When schools in Vietnam closed and they stopped flights from China, followed by Italy and Korea and then the rest of the world.

Lombardy going crazy and countries the other side of the world banning flights. And people don't understand why the fallouts have been different.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 6:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because it's a stance that directs a bias. By focusing on the CCP all the time, as opposed to the PRC/China, you lose neutrality, due to all the negative associations linked to the CCP. I find it reinforces the pushing of an agenda.
...

What's the difference between a focus on CCP and a focus on China. Can someone give an example of where those two things are different when it comes to what China does.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 6:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not in the least bit amazing. They totally locked down in the one city at the epicentre. They have huge internal restrictions on travel. They tightly controlled external travel.

Also this claim that the virus could only have been fully defeated with vaccines is not true either. It won't in fact be defeated with Vaccines, we will need boosters every so often. There will be breakouts and china had some.

Who claiming the virus would be fully defeated?

The idea is that lockdown and containment is a stop gap until you get herd immunity with a vaccine. That brings the number of cases down to a manageable level so you can exit lockdown and resume normal activities. It's not that the virus disappears.

China opened up before the vaccines. That's what people are reporting here, that is all back to normal in China and no sign of any cases.

The opposite happened here first lockdown worked well, but as soon as we relaxed it exploded and it's taken almost 6 months to get back to where we were. We needed the vaccine to get there aswell. Chinese didn't.

Amazing really.

DaSilva · 12-05-2021 7:57pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Who claiming the virus would be fully defeated?

The idea is that lockdown and containment is a stop gap until you get herd immunity with a vaccine. That brings the number of cases down to a manageable level so you can exit lockdown and resume normal activities. It's not that the virus disappears.

China opened up before the vaccines. That's what people are reporting here, that is all back to normal in China and no sign of any cases.

The opposite happened here first lockdown worked well, but as soon as we relaxed it exploded and it's taken almost 6 months to get back to where we were. We needed the vaccine to get there aswell. Chinese didn't.

Amazing really.

I think it is because our lockdowns were done to mitigate disease, we ended lockdown when case numbers were very low. On the other hand in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). So they identified all cases by doing mass testing of entire cities that were under lockdown, and when cases were 0 they opened up. I don't blame you for not believing it or being suspicious, it is hard to imagine that is possible, but it seems it is, because it would be very hard for them to conceal an epidemic in their big cities.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 9:38pm

DaSilva wrote: »

I think it is because our lockdowns were done to mitigate disease, we ended lockdown when case numbers were very low. On the other hand in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). So they identified all cases by doing mass testing of entire cities that were under lockdown, and when cases were 0 they opened up. I don't blame you for not believing it or being suspicious, it is hard to imagine that is possible, but it seems it is, because it would be very hard for them to conceal an epidemic in their big cities.

Well on one hand we say it's impossible to have 0 cases, then we flip and say China has 0 cases.

Regardless of what China does or said. This thread on its own constantly contradicts itself.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 9:40pm

DaSilva wrote: »

.... in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). ....

How does it get reintroduced?

archer22 · 12-05-2021 9:44pm

thebaz wrote: »

or you could see it as a way of not blaming the Chinese people for accusations of negligense or misinformation, but the CCP have questions to answer, given damage caused to rest of world. How virus originated is a legitimate and important question, since we dont want it to happen again.

So your're assuming the government of China caused the pandemic

I thought the generally accepted source of the pandemic was a wet market in Wuhan.
Unless you have some proof the market was owned and run by the Chinese ruling party otherwise your point is moot.

Was the American government responsible for the "Spanish Flu" which originated on a Chicken farm in Kansas?.

Also was BSE caused by the UK government or by greedy agricultural interests?

12-05-2021 10:07pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

Well on one hand we say it's impossible to have 0 cases, then we flip and say China has 0 cases.

Regardless of what China does or said. This thread on its own constantly contradicts itself.

How so? I can't recall of anyone who said that they believed the statistics released by China regarding their numbers. A variety of people have spoken about there being little impact of covid in China now... based on their friends, or from videos, but that's different from what you're suggesting.

It's anyone's guess as to what the actual figures are now, or what they were in the past. I've said repeatedly not to trust what the Chinese government releases about covid, or just about anything. They're not going to be honest and open about what's happening.

archer22 · 12-05-2021 10:20pm

In fairness you will never see anybody in China or anywhere in East Asia putting up a Marquee to have an auld hooley during the Pandemic and stating they are happy to accept the consequences!.

The "consequences" would be Tanks driving over it, not a contribution to the local poor box

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 10:30pm

archer22 wrote: »

In fairness you will never see anybody in China or anywhere in East Asia putting up a Marquee to have an auld hooley during the Pandemic and stating they are happy to accept the consequences!.

The "consequences" would be Tanks driving over it, not a contribution to the local poor box

In fairness they seem to have holiday special camps, socially distanced in remote areas for that kinda of thing.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 10:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How so? I can't recall of anyone who said that they believed the statistics released by China regarding their numbers. ....

I was never really taking about the numbers. They are just context of timeline of the response to the virus. I just think it's odd to have such a slow roll out of the vaccine when they had such a headstart. Or why exclude elderly when they are the ones who it mostly effects. I know they are including them now.

But I guess if they've mostly eradicated it without the vaccine then it's mostly irrelevant for them. Unlike the rest of the world.

Flinty997 · 12-05-2021 10:54pm

Anyway China's grand basically.

thebaz · 13-05-2021 12:43am

archer22 wrote: »

So your're assuming the government of China caused the pandemic

I thought the generally accepted source of the pandemic was a wet market in Wuhan.
Unless you have some proof the market was owned and run by the Chinese ruling party otherwise your point is moot.

I'm assuming nothing , I merly asked the question how the virus originated ??

It has not definitvly been proven to have started in a wet market, it could have been an accident - I dont believe the Chinese goverment intentionally caused the pandemic, but I would like some answers on how it started - not going to get that answer here I know.

How is China getting on?

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