New Horizon Mall

Cookiemunster · 26-08-2014 3:34pm

damienirel wrote: »

Congrats to Limerick Co. for being corrupt and as short sighted as we've come to expect.
And think of all those people that will be saved from having to get up and go to work instead of the dole, major pain in the backside averted. :-)

If they were corrupt then the would have given PP. Unless your saying someone paid the council officials to refuse it.

Also as others have said there are plenty of empty units in every retail park / shopping center in Limerick. Where are the retailers going to come from? If this gets built it will be another Jetland with M&S instead of Dunnes and loads of empty units.

damienirel · 26-08-2014 3:49pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Unless your saying someone paid the council officials to refuse it.

yep - money may not have changed hands but there are vested interests - you can be sure of that - not sure any retailers like to see competition.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If they were corrupt then the would have given PP.

Who said that they won't - give it time! LOL!

Comhrá · 26-08-2014 8:54pm

I drove up William St. yesterday morning looking for parking while on a short errand to Carew's shop. Eventually I found a parking space in upper Gerald Griffin St.

Between all the taxis, cars parked on the double yellow lines and in the loading bays, the traffic lights & the new pedestrian lights, the entire street was reduced to a virtual car-park. This mad obsession with widening the footpaths, having traffic-lights every 100 meters, and reduction of parking spaces is a cause of utter frustration for anyone driving a car and I for one, have reduced my trips into town to an absolute minimum as it's such a pita to drive around there.

Apart from any recession, simple car access to the city centre is to my mind the greatest reason the whole place has become so run-down and stagnant - and the drab, dreary appearance of much of the facias and shop fronts on O'Connell St. is another reason to avoid the area altogether.

Cookiemunster · 26-08-2014 10:32pm

tippman1 wrote: »

I drove up William St. yesterday morning looking for parking while on a short errand to Carew's shop. Eventually I found a parking space in upper Gerald Griffin St.

Between all the taxis, cars parked on the double yellow lines and in the loading bays, the traffic lights & the new pedestrian lights, the entire street was reduced to a virtual car-park. This mad obsession with widening the footpaths, having traffic-lights every 100 meters, and reduction of parking spaces is a cause of utter frustration for anyone driving a car and I for one, have reduced my trips into town to an absolute minimum as it's such a pita to drive around there.

Apart from any recession, simple car access to the city centre is to my mind the greatest reason the whole place has become so run-down and stagnant - and the drab, dreary appearance of much of the facias and shop fronts on O'Connell St. is another reason to avoid the area altogether.

In fairness the idea of wider footpaths / pedestrian crossings is to make the city center more pedestrian friendly. William St. was regularly down to one lane due to double parking before the footpaths were widened though. The problem here is the total lack of enforcement of traffic laws. Have a dedicated traffic warden patrolling only William St with a tow truck on call for a month and we'd soon see the double parking disappear.

Iranoutofideas · 27-08-2014 11:34am

Those filthy black footpaths on O'Connell Street are a disgrace.

Cookiemunster · 27-08-2014 11:57am

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Those filthy black footpaths on O'Connell Street are a disgrace.

O'Connell St is due to get the William St/Thomas St treatment as well. When is the question though as it was originally supposed to be done in 2012.

whatdoicare · 27-08-2014 1:43pm

I don't really go into the city centre much anymore, it's a pain in the arse paying for parking, the shops aren't buggy friendly and if it's in any way rainy or cold it's just an ordeal to go around it.
The crescent has pretty much all the same shops, is out of the weather and it's free to park, all the shops are one level and easy to get around with the babby. The one and only complaint I have is that the penneys is tiny- which is the one and only reason I go into town at all!

Anyway, my point is, they should really change the city centre into a tourist/chic/student area - forget about enticing locals as anyone with a kid is thinking like me. Town is not a practical place for families unless they do an eyre square type situation. They are going to be turning the Opera centre into an extension of UL, so they should use this opportunity and reinvent itself. Make it a younger city - more geared towards the younger person who doesn't usually have a car, doesn't care if it's raining too much, can stay out late and is fashion conscious. Vastly improve the bus routes going to city centre, set up night buses, more hostels in the area, huge garda presence to get rid of the druggie/Alco/scum bag element. I mean, look at Arthurs quay park, there was a spiegletent recently and it was surrounded by scummers and knarly looking people drinking openly - not very nice to see.
There should be more walking tours, bus tours and museums, they've made a good start but they need more! If they invested wisely they could make something spectacular and modern of Limerick city centre and have the outlets outside the city. something for everyone.

If you have students/tourists visiting and working in these shops, living in the same area and going out in the same area, it'll become pretty much self contained.

It's a terrible shame they've cancelled on the horizon centre, it'd be geared towards a different shopper and would bring very much needed revenue and jobs to the city. I hope they reconsider.

Well, that's my two cents anyway, for whatever it's worth.

Cookiemunster · 10-04-2015 2:16pm

Well this has been given the go ahead by ABP. I personally thing that it a ridiculous decision. Where are the tenants going to come from? Just look to the Castletroy SC and the Jetland SC to see how many empty units there are in the already built centers. Add to that the multiple empty units in the various retail parks.

bazz26 · 10-04-2015 2:44pm

They must have an anchor tenant lined up at least, to make the completion viable?

Jofspring · 10-04-2015 3:09pm

Well Jetland has been it's own worst enemy from what I have heard. Dunnes have been looking for massive rent and not willing to budge at all. Look how many businesses have come and gone in there. You just have to look at how the Parkway has turned itself around with good management. It's gone from being a dump to a decent little shopping centre.

If they build a nice shopping centre with a few anchor tenants the other businesses will follow.

Berty · 10-04-2015 3:11pm

bazz26 wrote: »

They must have an anchor tenant lined up at least, to make the completion viable?

It's M&S surely. He has other developed sites with M&S and if we remember M&S defending closing their two east coast stores(one was Dun Laoighre) because they promised a flagship store in Limerick.

bazz26 · 10-04-2015 4:01pm

Beer Baron wrote: »

It's M&S surely. He has other developed sites with M&S and if we remember M&S defending closing their two east coast stores(one was Dun Laoighre) because they promised a flagship store in Limerick.

I was thinking the same but didn't want to bring up the old reliable M&S link every time some retail development kicks off. They would need to have a big anchor tenant on board already for this development to start moving along again.

They could open the underground car park as a public swimming pool right now if they wanted. Will take some amount of work to put that site right though after about 7 or 8 years of being exposed to the elements. Traffic flow would have to be a major consideration too, the Parkway roundabout is bad enough as it is now without adding extra volume drawn to a M&S.

Cookiemunster · 10-04-2015 4:14pm

Interesting.

Limerick Leader @Limerick_Leader · 2h 2 hours ago

@LimerickCouncil says in statement it is "considering" Horizon Mall planning decision, notes that development must be complete by Aug '16..

If true is then any hope of construction being restarted and finished in 15 months?

Insect Overlord · 10-04-2015 4:18pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If true is then any hope of construction being restarted and finished in 15 months?

Only if they employ every out-of-work builder, electrician and plumber in the region...

Berty · 10-04-2015 4:26pm

At least they'll have a foodcourt which is fine by me.

Mc Love · 10-04-2015 4:31pm

Beer Baron wrote: »

At least they'll have a foodcourt which is fine by me.

a proper one!

Insect Overlord · 10-04-2015 4:34pm

Mc Love wrote: »

a proper one!

Let the Nandos rumours begin again. :pac:

Berty · 10-04-2015 4:35pm

From the Department of the Environment

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FPublications%2FDevelopmentandHousing%2FPlanning%2FFileDownLoad%2C1582%2Cen.pdf&ei=hewnVfzHJIPuarePgIgH&usg=AFQjCNFJW7k0HUqmHaYrMWW8nNzIRH2DZQ&sig2=-HXH8UKl6Gu-aADXPSMSpQ&bvm=bv.90491159,d.ZGU&cad=rja

How long does permission last? wrote:

The standard duration for planning permission
(permission or outline permission) is five years from the date of the grant of the permission by the planning authority or An Bord Pleanála. In certain circumstances the planning authority may extend the life of a planning permission but only where:
* substantial works have been carried out during the lifetime of the permission and

* the planning authority is satisfied that the development will be completed in reasonable time.

If a planning permission expires and you apply for a new permission for the same development, the planning authority may refuse permission or attach significantly different conditions. This can happen if planning policies or the requirements for the proper planning and sustainable development of the area have changed in the interim.

Maybe the work can be completed enough/in a timely manner(as per the above) that the planning is extended.

Berty · 10-04-2015 4:36pm

An File wrote: »

Let the Nandos rumours begin again. :pac:

Sbarro were going in there way back when. I know because I quoted for the job.

1huge1 · 11-04-2015 1:17pm

I thought this project got canned like 6 months ago (or more), how it back in motion again?

Cookiemunster · 11-04-2015 1:33pm

1huge1 wrote: »

I thought this project got canned like 6 months ago (or more), how it back in motion again?

The council refused the new revised planning permission and this was appealed to ABP. ABP overruled the council.

manna452121 · 11-04-2015 9:47pm

Anyone know about the land across the road,sold signs on the 4 sites and someone clearing the ground where the sub-station is.Some of the steel for the shopping centre was been stored in the same field.

Reputable Rog · 13-04-2015 3:46pm

manna452121 wrote: »

Anyone know about the land across the road,sold signs on the 4 sites and someone clearing the ground where the sub-station is.Some of the steel for the shopping centre was been stored in the same field.

Nandos and Frankie & Bennys.

power101 · 14-04-2015 3:03pm

Can anyone find a link on An Bord Pleanala's website for the Horizon Mall case?

Cookiemunster · 14-04-2015 3:48pm

power101 wrote: »

Can anyone find a link on An Bord Pleanala's website for the Horizon Mall case?

They only have cases up to the week ending 3rd April. It won't be there until they update to the 10th April.

bigpink · 14-04-2015 7:13pm

How many retail units will be in it?

Vanquished · 14-04-2015 7:43pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They only have cases up to the week ending 3rd April. It won't be there until they update to the 10th April.

It's already up there. Just search for "parkway valley".

Poxyshamrock · 14-04-2015 9:52pm

bigpink wrote: »

How many retail units will be in it?

Too many to fill?

power101 · 14-04-2015 11:13pm

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/243874.htm

Rightwing · 15-04-2015 10:16am

whatdoicare wrote: »

I don't really go into the city centre much anymore, it's a pain in the arse paying for parking, the shops aren't buggy friendly and if it's in any way rainy or cold it's just an ordeal to go around it.
The crescent has pretty much all the same shops, is out of the weather and it's free to park, all the shops are one level and easy to get around with the babby. The one and only complaint I have is that the penneys is tiny- which is the one and only reason I go into town at all!

Anyway, my point is, they should really change the city centre into a tourist/chic/student area - forget about enticing locals as anyone with a kid is thinking like me. Town is not a practical place for families unless they do an eyre square type situation. They are going to be turning the Opera centre into an extension of UL, so they should use this opportunity and reinvent itself. Make it a younger city - more geared towards the younger person who doesn't usually have a car, doesn't care if it's raining too much, can stay out late and is fashion conscious. Vastly improve the bus routes going to city centre, set up night buses, more hostels in the area, huge garda presence to get rid of the druggie/Alco/scum bag element. I mean, look at Arthurs quay park, there was a spiegletent recently and it was surrounded by scummers and knarly looking people drinking openly - not very nice to see.
There should be more walking tours, bus tours and museums, they've made a good start but they need more! If they invested wisely they could make something spectacular and modern of Limerick city centre and have the outlets outside the city. something for everyone.

If you have students/tourists visiting and working in these shops, living in the same area and going out in the same area, it'll become pretty much self contained.

It's a terrible shame they've cancelled on the horizon centre, it'd be geared towards a different shopper and would bring very much needed revenue and jobs to the city. I hope they reconsider.

Well, that's my two cents anyway, for whatever it's worth.

Exactly.

This is a win for the public, the developer and a schooling for the council.

Council are stuck in the 70's with little forward thinking. Heads in the council should roll.

Must always move with the times and this is what people prefer.
Develop the city with office blocks etc, not large supermarkets. Talk about looking for a cheap and easy way out. FFS.

Cookiemunster · 15-04-2015 10:24am

Rightwing wrote: »

Exactly.

This is a win for the public, the developer and a schooling for the council.

Council are stuck in the 70's with little forward thinking. Heads in the council should roll.

Must always move with the times and this is what people prefer.
Develop the city with office blocks etc, not large supermarkets. Talk about looking for a cheap and easy way out. FFS.

How is it a schooling for the council? There's is still no guarantee that this will be built. It has to be finished before August 2016, which is pretty unlikely to be possible.
Also outside of what affect it might have on the city center, this center is simply not needed. Where do they expect to get the businesses to fill 35 units, when there's already plenty of empty units in the existing out of town centers.

Manager of the Parkway centre, Roger Beck
“it’s a very positive development, but from the point of view of the city it’s a very negative thing”. Apart from Marks & Spencer outlining their intentions to occupy one of two main anchor units, he said he has no idea who will occupy the remaining 37 retail units.

Rightwing · 15-04-2015 10:27am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

How is it a schooling for the council? There's is still no guarantee that this will be built. It has to be finished before August 2016, which is pretty unlikely to be possible.
Also outside of what affect it might have on the city center, this center is simply not needed. Where do they expect to get the businesses to fill 35 units, when there's already plenty of empty units in the existing out of town centers.

People don't want to go into city for shopping anymore. The choice is centres like this or online. The council would do well to know which one they'd benefit most from (ok - I accept I may have to give them a clue, it's not online).

It is ambitious. No question about that.

Jofspring · 15-04-2015 10:49am

If they build a nice shopping centre with decent rent you could easily see H&M, Pull and Bear, Topman/Topshop , Starbucks, nandos, wagamama, sbarro , tgi Fridays, house of Fraser, bt2, breshka, Hollister etc... There are loads of businesses not in Limerick and some that are already in Limerick but would open more shops if there was a decent facility for it. Obviously it's easier said than done to get them in but there is also no reason it can't happen.

Mc Love · 15-04-2015 11:52am

Jofspring wrote: »

If they build a nice shopping centre with decent rent you could easily see H&M, Pull and Bear, Topman/Topshop , Starbucks, nandos, wagamama, sbarro , tgi Fridays, house of Fraser, bt2, breshka, Hollister etc... There are loads of businesses not in Limerick and some that are already in Limerick but would open more shops if there was a decent facility for it. Obviously it's easier said than done to get them in but there is also no reason it can't happen.

If it turns into something like Dundrum it could spell the end of the dominance the Crescent has! I'd love if a John Lewis would open here

Reputable Rog · 15-04-2015 12:03pm

Jofspring wrote: »

If they build a nice shopping centre with decent rent you could easily see H&M, Pull and Bear, Topman/Topshop , Starbucks, nandos, wagamama, sbarro , tgi Fridays, house of Fraser, bt2, breshka, Hollister etc... There are loads of businesses not in Limerick and some that are already in Limerick but would open more shops if there was a decent facility for it. Obviously it's easier said than done to get them in but there is also no reason it can't happen.

The food court has been omitted as far as I know. The food outlets you mentioned, especially SBarro are complete ****e.
Hollister, house of Fraser won't open in Limerick as its too small. House of Fraser were in Limerick in a previous guise when they owned Todds, there isnt room in Limerick for a third department store.

Paddico · 15-04-2015 12:26pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Nandos and Frankie & Bennys.

Is someone on a time warp or is it me.
Nandos do chicken and chips and that’s it in a nutshell.
Very very over priced and not even decent at that

Berty · 15-04-2015 12:52pm

Wouldn't mind a katsu curry from wagamama though.

When they did bento boxes there was serious value in it. Chances are the accountant put a stop to it. HAha

The Taikichi restaurant on oconnell street does a version of katsu also as well as bento boxes and are nice.

Jofspring · 15-04-2015 1:21pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The food court has been omitted as far as I know. The food outlets you mentioned, especially SBarro are complete ****e.
Hollister, house of Fraser won't open in Limerick as its too small. House of Fraser were in Limerick in a previous guise when they owned Todds, there isnt room in Limerick for a third department store.

Paddico wrote: »

Is someone on a time warp or is it me.
Nandos do chicken and chips and that’s it in a nutshell.
Very very over priced and not even decent at that

I agree about both Nandos and Sbarro but they both do extremely well anywhere they go. A new shopping centre of the likes of dundrum will attract shoppers from Tipp, Clare, Cork, Galway and even Waterford, Kilkenny etc... The crescent already attracts people from out of town and it's not even a great shopping centre.

Pumpkinseeds · 15-04-2015 1:48pm

I think it's a shame to build another out of town shopping centre. The city centre is almost dead as it is. Limerick was a great place to shop in the late 80's/early 90's. I loved being able to go to all the different clothing places then have lunch in Bewleys and while I decided what to buy. Now Cruises Street is a sh*thole, complete with chuggers and scumbags.

At this rate the declining footfall will leave little incentive for places like Penneys/Debenhams or Brown Thomas to continue trading in the city. If one of those goes it'd be a disaster. I really don't see how M&S would attract major business. All their clothing and homewares can be bought online, same with John Lewis et al. I pop into the M&S in Galway when I'm down there, but there's nothing particularly special about their stuff.

Poxyshamrock · 15-04-2015 1:54pm

Cork, Galway and even Tipperary(!!!) have a Marks and Spencer so that won't be the attraction for neighbouring counties.

Stores like Harvey Nichols, House of Fraser, etc. chose to open in South County Dublin for very good reasons. Many more retailers are the same. John Lewis will not open here.

It won't be easy to fill those units....if it happens!

ongarboy · 15-04-2015 1:55pm

Oh wow - this is a big deal for Limerick granting this go-ahead. By a very tight margin as per Limerick Leader article just published below. So after 30 years of rumours, Marks and Spencer will finally open in Limerick!!

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/narrow-margin-of-4-3-gave-go-ahead-to-100m-horizon-mall-1-6689446

Berty · 15-04-2015 2:04pm

There's no mention of marks and spencer anywhere yet really but Galway is a small store, clonmel is only a bit bigger, the Douglas one in cork is small and the city centre one is fine except for the very expensive parking.

Athlone was then just built at the wrong time. It's small and the recession meant the shopping centre still isn't great.

New bridge then is a nice shopping centre but small and the m&s is adequate for newbridge needs. They're not too far from Dublin for some proper shopping so no big names needed there but still a fine food court.

Limerick, when m&s said it, would be a big store. The crescent wasn't a go because of planning but if they were the anchor people would spend money in there.

I like m&s. I wouldn't buy everything in there but I would visit there as the anchor which means footfall for businesses also wishing to open there.

The missus says if they put in a big penneys she'll be first in the door.

Swiper the fox · 15-04-2015 3:11pm

Beer Baron wrote: »

Wouldn't mind a katsu curry from wagamama though.

When they did bento boxes there was serious value in it. Chances are the accountant put a stop to it. HAha

The Taikichi restaurant on oconnell street does a version of katsu also as well as bento boxes and are nice.

I like wagamama but their katsu is nowhere near as good as taikichi's, off topic I know but I reckon Taikichi do the best Katsu I've ever eaten, they also do a beef curry which is superb.

Sbarro is a joke, it's Pizza and pasta is so bad that I cannot comprehend in any way how they can be successful. Has anybody ever enjoyed anything from there?

Berty · 15-04-2015 3:37pm

Sbarro can be like McDonalds or someplace else widely known. It's comforting and a fallback when all else fails food wise offering.

It's why Sbarro are mostly in airports and shopping centres because people are comforted by a menu they know that's generally consistent in every outlet.

Chains always do well with the general populous because they're brands they can recognise quickly rather than wondering about a pop up or local restaurant.

Take Mahon point for example in cork. They had a restaurant below the food court and it changed hands and names a few times and when nandos went in they were all over it and queued out the door.

I wonder will somebody finally take over that concession building by tk maxx before the land reclaims it. If you don't know what I mean look in the window next time there's trees nearly growing in there.

Swiper the fox · 15-04-2015 4:01pm

Beer Baron wrote: »

Sbarro can be like McDonalds or someplace else widely known. It's comforting and a fallback when all else fails food wise offering.

It's why Sbarro are mostly in airports and shopping centres because people are comforted by a menu they know that's generally consistent in every outlet.

Chains always do well with the general populous because they're brands they can recognise quickly rather than wondering about a pop up or local restaurant.

Take Mahon point for example in cork. They had a restaurant below the food court and it changed hands and names a few times and when nandos went in they were all over it and queued out the door.

I wonder will somebody finally take over that concession building by tk maxx before the land reclaims it. If you don't know what I mean look in the window next time there's trees nearly growing in there.

I'd agree with you mostly, the excitement around here whenever Starbucks is mentioned is proof that people are suckers for a multinational, I had a Starbucks coffee in Dublin yesterday and it was muck as usual.
The thing with nandos is that it is absolutely fine, it's got a bit of spice so that people think they are being adventurous but it's just chicken and chips done reasonably well, if you've ever been to crackbird on Dame street in Dublin you'd see what can be done with chicken, however most people will be frightened to go in there because of it's hipster style exterior, no such problems with Nandos.
Sbarros on the other hand is hands down the worst Pizza joint I've ever eaten from, I really can't believe that anybody would go there twice willingly, I've been foolish enough to eat from there three times in total, the first time was even in New York City, imagine in one of the best cities in the world for Pizza you end up in there. The other two times were in Dublin Airport, there won't be a fourth time.

I also visited the mens section of M&S on Grafton street yesterday and left very unimpressed, I'll elcome it to Limerick for the food but I'm quite certain the novelty will wear off for me.
I love the city and hoped that this wouldn't get the go ahead, at least that way there was a chance that town could get on its feet, I understand the arguments from both sides.

Jofspring · 15-04-2015 4:23pm

Ya the bottom line is the town has needed rejuvenation shops wise for nearly 10 years now. For the council to turn around now and say a new shopping centre will kill town is frankly ridiculous. They have had years to sort it out and not much has been done to really attract big companies and businesses to the city centre. How long can they expect to put off developments outside the city centre before people start to say sorry but ye have long enough to sort it out we are going ahead with new developments.

Special Circumstances · 15-04-2015 4:42pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The food court has been omitted as far as I know. The food outlets you mentioned, especially SBarro are complete ****e.
Hollister, house of Fraser won't open in Limerick as its too small. House of Fraser were in Limerick in a previous guise when they owned Todds, there isnt room in Limerick for a third department store.

Probably moot if the food court isn't featuring... but what should come to Limerick? IE what hits the right balance of decent quality and popular appeal in terms of taste and price?

ongarboy · 15-04-2015 5:27pm

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Probably moot if the food court isn't featuring... but what should come to Limerick? IE what hits the right balance of decent quality and popular appeal in terms of taste and price?

It will still have a bunch of restaurants as any mall/shopping centre would have...just maybe not in a foodcourt style format. I can see Nandos, Eddie Rockets and probably Gourmet Burger Kitchen (GBK) as tenants along with Starbucks. Wagamama and Milano's too maybe?

riverrocked · 15-04-2015 7:40pm

whatdoicare wrote: »

Vastly improve the bus routes going to city centre, set up night buses, more hostels in the area, huge garda presence to get rid of the druggie/Alco/scum bag element.

This is the main reason I hate shopping in the city centre, chuggars/beggars and now religious nut jobs make it for a very unpleasant experience. I welcome this new centre. Somewhere with security that I can park my car and shop without being harassed or rained on, prefect.

There are a lot of woeful cries of the poor city centre, no amount of "pedestrianisation" (which seems to be the cure all cry from many) will fix it. What is needed in my opinion is a crack down on the on street harassers, and the only way to do that is to increase police and actually impose fines. Is it legal for that dude to stand between the market and Cruises street and ask for "spare change"? As he is always there on the rare times I go into town it has made me avoid Cruises Street all together. Or those fake charities that sell scratch cards, why aren't they moved on? What is the legality with this and why is it put up with.
/rant

tl/dr I am for the Horizon Centre.

FobleAsNuck · 15-04-2015 7:42pm

^^ you forgot water protesters

New Horizon Mall

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