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New Horizon Mall

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    #62
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    The Dagda wrote: »
    It's not illegal to beg in Ireland...

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/high-court-ruling-helps-put-beggars-back-on-our-streets-29210883.html

    Read the article. It refers to a specific situation whereby a certain element claim ignorance and an inability to understand English and then get off on a technicality!

    Unfortunately that disappointing but all too predictable interpretation by that judge has rendered implementation and enforcement extremely difficult. But essentially it is illegal to beg unless you are in possession of licence!


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    #63
    The Dagda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭The Dagda


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Read the article. It refers to a specific situation whereby a certain element claim ignorance and an inability to understand English and then get off on a technicality!

    Unfortunately that disappointing but all too predictable interpretation by that judge has rendered implementation and enforcement extremely difficult. But essentially it is illegal to beg unless you are in possession of licence!

    The case was specific but the the ruling means that the begging law is now defunct.


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    #64
    acalmenvoy
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭acalmenvoy


    Where's the ' New Horizon Mall' thread, link keeps bringing me here?


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    #65
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    The Dagda wrote: »
    The case was specific but the the ruling means that the begging law is now defunct.

    It is still in place but sadly the difficulties with securing convictions means that it won't be enforced.

    The entire judicial system in this country requires a radical overhaul but that's a different debate entirely!


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    #66
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    source wrote: »
    Can I ask how you plan on increasing these numbers when there hasn't been a single intake of trainee Gardai through Templemore since 2009?

    Gardai don't grow on trees, there's a long recruitment and training process involved before one can go on the streets and perform.

    Why would you need to recruit extra Gardai for this purpose? Obviously overall numbers in the force have fallen in recent years. But the last time I heard Limerick had the highest number of Gardai in the country per head of population.

    Back at the beginning of the year the city business association were promised dedicated city centre patrols during business hours. Possibly four officers if I remember correctly.


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    #67
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Why would you need to recruit extra Gardai for this purpose? Obviously overall numbers in the force have fallen in recent years. But the last time I heard Limerick had the highest number of Gardai in the country per head of population.

    Back at the beginning of the year the city business association were promised dedicated city centre patrols during business hours. Possibly four officers if I remember correctly.

    There are a lot of things happening behind the scenes that people don't see. When I was working in AGS there were 30 Gardai, on my unit.

    Out of that 30, there were 3 required for the communications room, 1 jailer and 1 public office. There were 6 armed protection posts taking 2 members each, usually other stations would help, so say 8 from my unit.

    There were 3 on long term sick due to injury/serious illness. Then there was an allowance for 5 on leave each day.

    You then had court and courses, there were times when we were lucky to field 2 cars.

    Now granted it's quite a while since I was a guard, but this will give you some insight as to why the beat can be sometimes neglected.


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    #68
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    I'm aware of the range of roles and responsibilities that have to be fulfilled but street policing should be an absolute prerequisite. It should be part of the forces bread and butter. An adequate on street police presence is essential for any large urban area.

    It's very noticeable on the continent that a visible police presence in town and city centres is a high priority and something that they just take for granted.

    A more effective and efficient use of resources has to be found especially now that a commitment has been given to restart recruitment. Having guards stuck behind desks doing paperwork is beyond a waste!


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    #69
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    Vanquished wrote: »
    I'm aware of the range of roles and responsibilities that have to be fulfilled but street policing should be an absolute prerequisite. It should be part of the forces bread and butter. An adequate on street police presence is essential for any large urban area.

    It's very noticeable on the continent that a visible police presence in town and city centres is a high priority and something that they just take for granted.

    A more effective and efficient use of resources has to be found especially now that a commitment has been given to restart recruitment. Having guards stuck behind desks doing paperwork is beyond a waste!

    I agree there should be more beat patrol in the city centre, but when you're that under resourced you send your available resources where the calls are. It's no use having two Gardai wandering around town to act as a deterrent when the only other two gardai on patrol in the district have a 3 hour long call backlog. Those people deserve a response, the fact that there's two gardai in town acting as a deterrent is no use to them.

    As for paperwork there's nobody else to do it. You can't get civilians to do it, you can't have a civilian going out to get an injured party statement, or a cautioned statement. You can't have them do the arresting member or the assisting member statement or the case report. They can't do charge sheets, bail, or court schedules. Practically speaking, there is very little paperwork a civilian can do for AGS.


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    #70
    Poxyshamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    Planning refused! :)

    2ik885w.jpg


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    #71
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Well that is one more excuse taken from the list for the local authorities to use as to why businesses are still in decline in the city centre.



    Was wondering through the "Fashion" quarter the other day, and for the life of me I cannot understand why there is not a push to create a proper Fashion Quarter rather than expecting a few signs to fool people.


    It just got me thinking that reduced rates and the like could be offered to fashion related businesses if they took up units on Roches street etc., and use incentives as a means to create a proper fashion quarter.


    Similar incentives could be applied to other sections of the city centre and we could get more Service or Retail themed Quarters in the city centre.


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    #72
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Probably for the best, it was the non logical side of my brain that wanted to see this go through (just years of seeing that eyesore had a lot to do with it).

    As to whether this means something will be done in the city on the other hand, the Opera centre is pretty much ear marked for UL now so its unlikely to ever be a mall right?

    Not necessarily retail, but finishing the Hanging gardens would be a good start to get more employees in the city and hopefully spending money in the city.


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    #73
    Iranoutofideas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Iranoutofideas


    Great, Can they tear down that eyesore of a site now so?


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    #74
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Am I right in thinking that the original planning permission still stands? Wasn't this application for a scaled down version of the centre?
    EDIT: Just read the article and this is the case. Here's hoping the original plan isn't commercially viable and it doesn't get completed.

    On a related note, that paper was advertising a feature on business in Limerick? Did anyone read it? Is anything new in it?


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    #75
    Poxyshamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    I got the SBP this morning for the retail in a Limerick article, pigtown. Nothing new in it. I imagine it was just to give people outside Limerick a taste of the problem the city faces and what's being done to tackle it.


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    #76
    iora_rua
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭iora_rua


    So, is that the end of us ever getting a decent M&S within reasonable driving distance?


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    #77
    puntosporting
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭puntosporting


    Load of bollix!
    Jobs people! town is ****ed anyway !


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    #78
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,147 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    A case of closing the gate when the horse has already bolted imo.


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    #79
    salamanca22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭salamanca22


    Out of interest why are people so against this? It will create a lot of jobs for Limerick and will bring people in from further away. Town is pretty much done for anyway.


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    #80
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    puntosporting wrote: »
    Load of bollix!
    Jobs people! town is ****ed anyway !

    And what do you think would have happened to the jobs of the people working in the Parkway, Aldi, Word of Wonder, Next, TK Maxx, Heatons, Smyths, Burton, Wallis, Dorothy Perkins, Argos and all of the masses of other shops that are already competing in the already oversaturated market in the same .2 of a square mile that this mall would have gone? There are already plenty of empty units in that area. The market isn't there to fill the premises that currently exist. If a new mall opened it would just mean job losses elsewhere.


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    #81
    jbkenn
    Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭jbkenn


    salamanca22 wrote: »
    Out of interest why are people so against this? It will create a lot of jobs for Limerick and will bring people in from further away. Town is pretty much done for anyway.
    You have some facts to back up this assertion?, or is it just wishful thinking.


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    #82
    salamanca22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭salamanca22


    jbkenn wrote: »
    You have some facts to back up this assertion?, or is it just wishful thinking.

    What assertion? Where I suggest that town is pretty much done for?

    I don't really need to go digging for facts do I when it is plainly obvious that it is deteriorating. I walk through town twice a day and it is but a shadow of what it was before.

    It will take some serious effort to fix it and if it hasn't happened by now then I don't see it happening very soon either.


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    #83
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    It sounds like there is nowhere in the city centre to accommodate an equivalent retail centre for the likes of M&S etc either. The Opera Centre is now to be used for a secondary UL campus, student accommodation and other non retail uses.

    The only suitable city centre place I can think of is the dilapidated old Dunnes Sarsfield centre. The problem with this is Dunnes hold onto their idle properties like newborn babies rather than let competitors pay big money to occupy them. This is what they have done with many of their traditional older town centre outlets (Tralee, Kilkenny, Wexford, O'Connell St-Limerick etc) that they closed leaving ugly eyesore gaps on the towns main/high streets.


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    #84
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    salamanca22 wrote: »
    What assertion? Where I suggest that town is pretty much done for?

    I don't really need to go digging for facts do I when it is plainly obvious that it is deteriorating. I walk through town twice a day and it is but a shadow of what it was before.

    It will take some serious effort to fix it and if it hasn't happened by now then I don't see it happening very soon either.

    Well the country has been in a significant downturn over the past 6 years and only now things are getting brighter again. So retail was going to be hit either way.

    As much as it would be nice to have a city centre alternative to the horizon mall, that probably won't happen (Opera centre was the only really opportunity). But there is great potential to revive parts of the city centre, especially with retail sales on the increase once again.


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    #85
    The_Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭The_Dave


    ongarboy wrote: »
    It sounds like there is nowhere in the city centre to accommodate an equivalent retail centre for the likes of M&S etc either. The Opera Centre is now to be used for a secondary UL campus, student accommodation and other non retail uses.

    The only suitable city centre place I can think of is the dilapidated old Dunnes Sarsfield centre. The problem with this is Dunnes hold onto their idle properties like newborn babies rather than let competitors pay big money to occupy them. This is what they have done with many of their traditional older town centre outlets (Tralee, Kilkenny, Wexford, O'Connell St-Limerick etc) that they closed leaving ugly eyesore gaps on the towns main/high streets.
    I believe councils can take control of derelict sites (possibly through CPOs) I cannot find the legislation though


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    #86
    vkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭vkid


    salamanca22 wrote: »
    What assertion? Where I suggest that town is pretty much done for?

    I don't really need to go digging for facts do I when it is plainly obvious that it is deteriorating. I walk through town twice a day and it is but a shadow of what it was before.

    It will take some serious effort to fix it and if it hasn't happened by now then I don't see it happening very soon either.


    Not sure I agree. There is a lot of sale agreed sold and let signs around the place. Doubt they are there for the craic. Its not going to happen overnight either.

    Property owners have a serious disregard for their buildings in limerick though. The state of some of the Georgian stock is criminal. They should be forced to upkeep. O'Connell street is also disgraceful.


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    #87
    FobleAsNuck
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    The_Dave wrote: »
    I believe councils can take control of derelict sites (possibly through CPOs) I cannot find the legislation though

    all it takes is for Dunnes to paint them every now and then


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    #88
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Assume you're referring to the old one on Sarsfield Street, its been derelict for over 6 years at this stage. A lot of potential there too, such a shame. Was very impressed with how Hook and Ladder improved the building just up the road.

    Though I would imagine that old Dunnes would have to be knocked, horrible looking even when it was in use.


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    #89
    Totally Tropical
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Totally Tropical


    puntosporting wrote: »
    Load of bollix!
    Jobs people! town is ****ed anyway !

    With an attitude like that it would anyway.Thank god this development was turned down.The city centre is showing signs of recovery we can't be having that undermined.Let's do something about the vacant business fronts that are still in the city centre and there will be plenty of jobs then without inflicting another bland and soulless shopping mall on the city.


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    #90
    Iranoutofideas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Iranoutofideas


    If you want to talk about reviving the city, what can be done and the viability of these proposals then talk to business people currently operating there.

    The average joe soap generally hasn't a clue what they are talking about when it comes to this kind of thing.


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    #91
    salamanca22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭salamanca22


    vkid wrote: »
    Not sure I agree. There is a lot of sale agreed sold and let signs around the place. Doubt they are there for the craic. Its not going to happen overnight either.

    Property owners have a serious disregard for their buildings in limerick though. The state of some of the Georgian stock is criminal. They should be forced to upkeep. O'Connell street is also disgraceful.

    I hope I am proven wrong to be honest as I have too many childhood memories of going around town with the family that are being tarnished with the state of town at the moment.

    I just don't agree with peoples sentiment that having another mall available is a bad thing. It will create a massive amount of jobs while it is being constructed and will create jobs when it is opened and not to mention upping the profile of Limerick if it had anchors like M&S.

    Sure jobs may be lost in the areas around it but I put it to those naysayers that more jobs will be created overall and those that may lose jobs in areas around it will likely be prioritised for employment for the positions in the new mall as they have the experience. There will always be collateral damage though when progress is involved.


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