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Poppy

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  • Options
    #1052
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    A flower supports British army objectives?

    What they wave it at the Russians do they?

    It is always possible to tell when someone is all out of argument.


  • Options
    #1053
    Mookie Blaylock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭Mookie Blaylock


    Sidenote.. but I see that Martin O'Neill is concerned about the abuse James McLean may receive if he's picked to play against the North in Belfast because of his anti poppy stance.
    I'm all for the poppy... but I respect anyone's decision not to wear it and won't question that....just wish some of our fellow countrymen would follow suit.


  • Options
    #1054
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Aegir wrote: »
    A flower supports British army objectives?

    What they wave it at the Russians do they?


    It goes towards ex BA personnell. Therefore its helping the british state look after its vetereans. As these would mostly be vetereans of various colonial efforts at this stage, its unacceptable to many of us.


  • Options
    #1055
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mookie Blaylock wrote: »
    just wish some of our fellow countrymen would follow suit.

    Why would you ever expect an Irish man or woman to support the British Army?

    They are quite capable of remembering without doing that and without virtue signalling that they are doing it.


  • Options
    #1056
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It goes towards ex BA personnell. Therefore its helping the british state look after its vetereans. As these would mostly be vetereans of various colonial efforts at this stage, its unacceptable to many of us.

    Only if you buy one from the RBL. As far as I’m aware, you can get poppies anywhere.

    Most of the service personnel you talk of are long gone now. I’ve only ever met one person who served in the Mau Mau uprising and he died twenty years ago. Similarly with Cyprus, the old boys I worked with (who were all on national service) are dead and buried.


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    #1057
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Aegir wrote: »
    Only if you buy one from the RBL. As far as I’m aware, you can get poppies anywhere.

    Most of the service personnel you talk of are long gone now. I’ve only ever met one person who served in the Mau Mau uprising and he died twenty years ago. Similarly with Cyprus, the old boys I worked with (who were all on national service) are dead and buried.


    Most of them are probably dead by now, but - as an example - there are still plenty alive that served in the second gulf war.


  • Options
    #1058
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It goes towards ex BA personnell. Therefore its helping the british state look after its vetereans. As these would mostly be vetereans of various colonial efforts at this stage, its unacceptable to many of us.

    What colonial efforts would you be talking about ?
    I think the BA contribute significantly to UN peacekeeping nowadays as well the more recent conflicts.

    Would you begrudge a UN soldier support ?


  • Options
    #1059
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Mookie Blaylock wrote: »
    Sidenote.. but I see that Martin O'Neill is concerned about the abuse James McLean may receive if he's picked to play against the North in Belfast because of his anti poppy stance.
    I'm all for the poppy... but I respect anyone's decision not to wear it and won't question that....just wish some of our fellow countrymen would follow suit.
    Well I suppose its a change from giving him abuse for playing ****e


  • Options
    #1060
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It goes towards ex BA personnell. Therefore its helping the british state look after its vetereans. As these would mostly be vetereans of various colonial efforts at this stage, its unacceptable to many of us.
    Would you exclude the R.A.F. rescue teams that fly hundreds of miles out to sea to rescue Irish fishermen in trouble seeing as our own crowd cant fly once it gets dark


  • Options
    #1061
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    It looks like a deal done on Brexit, and with the UK having done all the heavy lifting it wont be long until southern Ireland launches moves to have a bit of the same action by Brejoining the UK.

    The kind of anti British venom on display in this thread about a peaceful and respectful simple symbol like wearing a poppy is going to have to be toned down.

    As Ireland moves into its own transition period, next year's poppy season would be a great way to show how Ireland has moved on from the past, is part of British culture and heritage, and is moving towards all of the British Isles working together towards its shared future, prosperity, cooperation, and integration. Wearing a poppy in 2019 could truly be a turning point for the maturity of the Irish, and I think we will see a marked increase in its observance south of the border.


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  • Options
    #1062
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    corner of hells wrote: »
    What colonial efforts would you be talking about ?
    I think the BA contribute significantly to UN peacekeeping nowadays as well the more recent conflicts.


    There's rather a lot of them - Greece, Cyprus, Kenya, Mayalasia, Burma, Aden. I provided more detail here for just a few examples

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108578816&postcount=504



    The money isn't ringfenced around specific campaigns or duties.


  • Options
    #1063
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It looks like a deal done on Brexit, and with the UK having done all the heavy lifting it wont be long until southern Ireland launches moves to have a bit of the same action by Brejoining the UK.

    The kind of anti British venom on display in this thread about a peaceful and respectful simple symbol like wearing a poppy is going to have to be toned down.

    As Ireland moves into its own transition period, next year's poppy season would be a great way to show how Ireland has moved on from the past, is part of British culture and heritage, and is moving towards all of the British Isles working together towards its shared future, prosperity, cooperation, and integration. Wearing a poppy in 2019 could truly be a turning point for the maturity of the Irish, and I think we will see a marked increase in its observance south of the border.
    Which border? The one between Armagh and Louth or between Chelsea and Kensington?


  • Options
    #1064
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It looks like a deal done on Brexit, and with the UK having done all the heavy lifting it wont be long until southern Ireland launches moves to have a bit of the same action by Brejoining the UK.

    The kind of anti British venom on display in this thread about a peaceful and respectful simple symbol like wearing a poppy is going to have to be toned down.

    As Ireland moves into its own transition period, next year's poppy season would be a great way to show how Ireland has moved on from the past, is part of British culture and heritage, and is moving towards all of the British Isles working together towards its shared future, prosperity, cooperation, and integration. Wearing a poppy in 2019 could truly be a turning point for the maturity of the Irish, and I think we will see a marked increase in its observance south of the border.

    Sammy Wilson wants to borrow my St Patrick's hat.
    The times they are a changing alright!


  • Options
    #1065
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That includes your historical observations too btw, in case you think it didn’t.

    There is a difference between fact and opinion. You're basically peddling Trump style nationalism of alternative facts, diluting complicated things into a simple goodies and baddies perspective: the deliberate adoption of anachronism to support a nationalist mythos.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah yes the classic “hey look over there” distractive comment.

    I mean you're looking to cherry pick for ideological framing, so a broad picture would probably be distracting, not to mention inconvenient.


  • Options
    #1066
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Wonder if we can keep a poppy thread running until next November, save restarting it?

    We need a poppy thread sticky lest we forget how this thread has been the best craic in years. They're getting more hilariously unhinged as the Brexit stuff gathers pace. There definitely is a relationship between their increasing use of "British Isles" and their increasing awareness of British decline.

    I sense that the spirit of the, eh, Fallen from previous threads will remain with us forever under various names.


  • Options
    #1067
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It looks like a deal done on Brexit, and with the UK having done all the heavy lifting it wont be long until southern Ireland launches moves to have a bit of the same action by Brejoining the UK.

    The kind of anti British venom on display in this thread about a peaceful and respectful simple symbol like wearing a poppy is going to have to be toned down.

    As Ireland moves into its own transition period, next year's poppy season would be a great way to show how Ireland has moved on from the past, is part of British culture and heritage, and is moving towards all of the British Isles working together towards its shared future, prosperity, cooperation, and integration. Wearing a poppy in 2019 could truly be a turning point for the maturity of the Irish, and I think we will see a marked increase in its observance south of the border.

    The poopy is a symbol for the briitish soldier's who sacrificed there lives in all armed conflicts. How can an irish person wear a poppy when some of our historical heros were shot down by brittish forces. We should have our own symbol that we wear to remember our own heros.Also there is the 2 bloody sundays and the shoot to kill policy the brittish govermnet brought in against the Ira.
    I respect the irish who fought in the world wars but we should have our own symbol for them.
    Do you think the briitish would wear a symbol that represented the german soldiers that died in armed conflicts ?
    The brittish were our germans dont ever forget that.


  • Options
    #1068
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We need a poppy thread sticky lest we forget how this thread has been the best craic in years. They're getting more hilariously unhinged as the Brexit stuff gathers pace. There definitely is a relationship between their increasing use of "British Isles" and their increasing awareness of British decline.

    I sense that the spirit of the, eh, Fallen from previous threads will remain with us forever under various names.

    Definitely true. The rise of poppy fascism and the malaise in the concept of the UK are directly linked imo.

    I said at the time of the Scot \Ind ref that we were looking at the 20 year breakup of the UK.

    Never thought it would be this far down the line so quickly.

    Cue; increased jingoism and size of the poppy.


  • Options
    #1069
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Most of them are probably dead by now, but - as an example - there are still plenty alive that served in the second gulf war.

    And you’ll find most of them were pretty angry about it as well. They didn’t sign up to get sent out on a politicians personal crusade.


  • Options
    #1070
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It looks like a deal done on Brexit, and with the UK having done all the heavy lifting it wont be long until southern Ireland launches moves to have a bit of the same action by Brejoining the UK.

    The kind of anti British venom on display in this thread about a peaceful and respectful simple symbol like wearing a poppy is going to have to be toned down.

    As Ireland moves into its own transition period, next year's poppy season would be a great way to show how Ireland has moved on from the past, is part of British culture and heritage, and is moving towards all of the British Isles working together towards its shared future, prosperity, cooperation, and integration. Wearing a poppy in 2019 could truly be a turning point for the maturity of the Irish, and I think we will see a marked increase in its observance south of the border.

    Is there any need for this inflammatory sh/te? Seriously?


  • Options
    #1071
    kingchess
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    Wearing the poppy thread reminds me of the book-Catch 22-and Captain black with his glorious loyalty oath crusade,where he had his men sign loyalty oaths before they could do anything,sign loyalty oaths before they could eat etc.the poppy lovers are not quite there yet ,but seem to be heading in that direction with wearing the poppy,


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    #1072
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Sammy Wilson wants to borrow my St Patrick's hat.
    The times they are a changing alright!

    His head couldn't be as big as yours.


  • Options
    #1073
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Is there any need for this inflammatory sh/te? Seriously?


    Ignore is the best course of action, tbh.


  • Options
    #1074
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    There is a difference between fact and opinion. You're basically peddling Trump style nationalism of alternative facts, diluting complicated things into a simple goodies and baddies perspective: the deliberate adoption of anachronism to support a nationalist mythos.

    Alternative facts? You're extracting the proverbial urine at this stage. Colonialism was unpleasant to those who had to face it. No amount of deliberately obtuse waffling by people such as yourself can avoid this fact.
    I mean you're looking to cherry pick for ideological framing, so a broad picture would probably be distracting, not to mention inconvenient.

    More of the same guff out of you. There's a David Irvingnesque vibe coming off your posts re this whole subject.....


  • Options
    #1075
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    The poopy is a symbol for the briitish soldier's who sacrificed there lives in all armed conflicts. How can an irish person wear a poppy when some of our historical heros were shot down by brittish forces. We should have our own symbol that we wear to remember our own heros.Also there is the 2 bloody sundays and the shoot to kill policy the brittish govermnet brought in against the Ira.
    I respect the irish who fought in the world wars but we should have our own symbol for them.
    Do you think the briitish would wear a symbol that represented the german soldiers that died in armed conflicts ?
    The brittish were our germans dont ever forget that.

    There us one thing I dislike hearing and that's about the BAs shoot to kill policy, what happened to all the prisoners the IRA took?


  • Options
    #1076
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    corner of hells wrote: »
    His head couldn't be as big as yours.




    ...are you implying theres rats in his caravan?


  • Options
    #1077
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Alternative facts? You're extracting the proverbial urine at this stage. Colonialism was unpleasant to those who had to face it.

    Because that is totally in dispute right?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    More of the same guff out of you. There's a David Irvingnesque vibe coming off your posts re this whole subject.....

    You literally said that history isn't facts, it's what individuals deem it to be. This is literally what you said. No it's not, it's stuff that happened!

    You said that if people don't believe something to be so, then it didn't happen.

    David Irving says that the Holocaust wasn't perpetrated by the Nazis. It was. This is objective fact. His subjective interpretation is that the Allies were equally responsible for war crimes and that the Third Reich is unfairly blamed. History is inconvenient for him in this regard so he blinkers himself from the 'distractive comments' and looks only at evidence which suits the conclusion he seeks to draw.

    Between this, Fuaranach lunging at imaginary imperialists, and TROL heralding a union of and Ireland and Brexit UK, this thread is coming down with a strong case of craziness.


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    #1078
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    You literally said that history isn't facts, it's what individuals deem it to be. This is literally what you said. No it's not, it's stuff that happened!

    History is not 'stuff that happened'. It's the study and interpretation of stuff that happened. Such study leads to differing interpretations, and humans being what they are, highlights the subjective aspect of historical studies.


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    #1079
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    History is not 'stuff that happened'. It's the study and interpretation of stuff that happened. Such study leads to differing interpretations, and humans being what they are, highlights the subjective aspect of historical studies.

    Had the history of Bloody Sunday been left after Widgery for example and nobody had objected? Pretty clear what you are saying 17-pdr.


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    #1080
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Had the history of Bloody Sunday been left after Widgery for example and nobody had objected? Pretty clear what you are saying 17-pdr.

    What interpretation would you give Francie? :)


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    #1081
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There us one thing I dislike hearing and that's about the BAs shoot to kill policy, what happened to all the prisoners the IRA took?

    The Ira were a terrorist orgainisation. The brittish army was supppsed to be a legitimate and they were far from it.


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