The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Finty Lemon · 05-04-2021 5:10pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I haven't seen a petrol pump attendant outside south east asia in 20 years

Strictly valet in my part of the world

You know what I mean, petrol station employees.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 05-04-2021 5:14pm

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Teachers provide more of our Presidents and Taoiseach's and any other profession, 2 of the last 3 Taoiseachs and the last 3 presidents were all educators .

If your trying to drum up support I'd keep that one quiet!

Treppen · 05-04-2021 5:19pm

yabadabado wrote: »

Most people what to be vaccinated NOW but that's just not how it works.

Most people don't teach at least 150 different people a day in an enclosed space, so that's not how everybody works either.

machiavellianme · 05-04-2021 5:22pm

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meeeeh wrote: »

The question is who is most at risk from Covid not who is most at risk of getting Covid. A 65 year old is 70 times more likely to die from Covid than 25 year old (or something similar I'm quoting from memory). You have to vaccinate an awful lot of younger people to avoid deaths or hospital overcrowding for one 65 year old.

People always react in overly emotional way and think their position on the list has to do with their personal or professional worth. It pure statistics, less people in hospitals and less people dying should be the only priority. Not to mention that vaccinating young teachers just weeks before holidays makes no sense. If they are vaccinated with Pfizer somewhere in the middle of April they won't develop immunity till May and full immunity late in May, two weeks after the second dose.

So even in comparison to guards and shop workers it makes no sense to vaccinate school teachers as priority at the end of the school year.

Excellent point, leave the Teachers till July/August for September immunity, unless they get there sooner through age merit. Why should they jump the queue over folk carrying out other close proximity roles or even those in critical roles such as control centres for electricity, water, aviation, gas etc

yabadabado · 05-04-2021 5:26pm

Treppen wrote: »

Most people don't teach at least 150 different people a day in an enclosed space, so that's not how everybody works either.

Do you think teachers should be a special case and should get it now ?

Rodin · 05-04-2021 5:27pm

They'll be off on their holliers shortly anyway and won't be at work... again.
Id call their bluff.

meeeeh · 05-04-2021 5:30pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

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Excellent point, leave the Teachers till July/August for September immunity, unless they get there sooner through age merit. Why should they jump the queue over folk carrying out other close proximity roles or even those in critical roles such as control centres for electricity, water, aviation, gas etc

I'm not saying teachers should be at the end of the queue. Even WHO said speed trumps everything and considering older people will more likely end in hospitals and keep those numbers up so we can't relax the restrictions. My point was that even if we prioritise teachers we are vaccinating them just before the two months they will be able to self isolate.

Cork Lass · 05-04-2021 5:33pm

From late May onwards most teachers will be on holidays until September. During that time they are just regular citizens so they should get in the queue like the rest of us.

05-04-2021 5:41pm

Rodin wrote: »

They'll be off on their holliers shortly anyway and won't be at work... again.
Id call their bluff.

I find it comically absurd that a 25 year old teacher would deem themselves important enough to skip the queue ahead of a diabetic in their mid-sixties. And most of us invested with common sense are aware of the ulterior motive: high summer in the sun overseas with their colleagues while the rest of us languish at home awaiting our turn. Government finally make a rational decision, graduating rollout of vaccines on basis of age after critical cohorts are tended to. And the teaching unions used to holding the country to ransom have thrown an almighty strop, the latest in a long line of them. If there is any justice in the world, they will be told exactly where to go. And it won't be near the head of the queue.

picturehangup · 05-04-2021 5:51pm

@ Cork Lass:

One teacher will come into 200 close contacts daily, five days a week, over seven weeks between April-June.

Neither my colleagues nor I finish in late May. House exams continue into June, and have to be then corrected/marked, and reports, then year -group reports must be written up.

That's 7,000 close contacts in that time-frame. Close contact ranging from anything between 40 minutes to 60 minutes.

Just to clarify.

cms88 · 05-04-2021 5:53pm

picturehangup wrote: »

Just to put this into some context.
I am a 55 year old teacher, working in a secondary school. I come into contact with approx 100 students per day at the very least.

I was unfortunate to contract covid at work last Christmas, along with three others of my colleagues around the same time. I was very sick, but recovered well enough to continue online teaching a full timetable in January. Two of my colleagues were not so fortunate, and were hospitalised, although they were younger than I.

There is no way I wish to contract this horrible thing again, or any other potentially more harmful variant, as I might not be so lucky the next time, given that I suffer asthma. My husband is a cancer survivor, and miraculously he did not catch it from me on THIS OCCASION. I do not want this again, and I would like to be vaccinated NOW. Enough is enough, and the unions are quite justified in their pursuit of the vaccine for their members. Two metre rules, etc... it just doesn't happen in a real class situation, kids won't wear masks properly, we are sitting ducks, as proven.

So.. back off, please.

supermarket workers have been much more high risk from the very start and still are. You talk about two metre rule etc in schools etc well for a lot of supermarket works people would sooner walk on top of them then stay two meters away. Not including people coming into shops without masks, hand wshing etc.

Teachers are very fast to being up how many people they come in contact with, and i'm not disputing that at all, but it's noting compared to the numbers coming into supermarkets everyday. An average supermarket worker could come into contact with 100 people in an hour let alone in the whole day.

We're hearing how all these groups teachers, nurses etc have been let down yet very few if any have ever said this about supermarket workers. They've had to put up with more **** than they normally have with the last year yet we'll never hear them being called ''heroes'' or the likes. Mostly because some of the supposed heroes wouldn't give them the time of day as some of them will see them as being beneath them.

cms88 · 05-04-2021 5:55pm

Treppen wrote: »

Most people don't teach at least 150 different people a day in an enclosed space, so that's not how everybody works either.

They don't come into contact with hundreds of different people like a supermarket worker either but they've no issues with that do they?

is_that_so · 05-04-2021 6:03pm

picturehangup wrote: »

Just to put this into some context.
I am a 55 year old teacher, working in a secondary school. I come into contact with approx 100 students per day at the very least.

I was unfortunate to contract covid at work last Christmas, along with three others of my colleagues around the same time. I was very sick, but recovered well enough to continue online teaching a full timetable in January. Two of my colleagues were not so fortunate, and were hospitalised, although they were younger than I.

There is no way I wish to contract this horrible thing again, or any other potentially more harmful variant, as I might not be so lucky the next time, given that I suffer asthma. My husband is a cancer survivor, and miraculously he did not catch it from me on THIS OCCASION. I do not want this again, and I would like to be vaccinated NOW. Enough is enough, and the unions are quite justified in their pursuit of the vaccine for their members. Two metre rules, etc... it just doesn't happen in a real class situation, kids won't wear masks properly, we are sitting ducks, as proven.

So.. back off, please.

You'll actually be done almost as soon under this new rollout. The argument for it is scientific and some very unfortunate outliers aside we are increasingly less at risk the lower in age we go. This is not a quickly reversible political decision. It is an adoption of the scientific reasoning and will not be changed. People can go on strike if they choose but apart from coming across as somewhat petty it won't achieve anything.

05-04-2021 6:03pm

Honestly do these unions even speak for the majority of their members?
I'm in a particularly high profile union, currently complaining about the change to the vaccine roll out. I'm not one bit put out by the change and neither is one single person I work with.

Donald Trump · 05-04-2021 6:07pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

From late May onwards most teachers will be on holidays until September. During that time they are just regular citizens so they should get in the queue like the rest of us.

During that time, using their own criteria as posited here by some, then surely they would fall to the bottom of the queue whether 25 or 55?
Anyone else who has to come in contact with anyone else as a result of their work would have to be ahead of them in the queue during that period?

Guards now, I'd say they have a reason to be vaccinated. Because, by the very nature of their work, they are often dealing with above average gobshite members of the public

Age is the cleanest way to do it I think. If some have health issues, then of course there should be a mechanism to priortise those.

05-04-2021 6:16pm

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

You said you wanted supermarket workers done before teachers. Which ones?

Dude, fix your quotes.

05-04-2021 6:19pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Honestly do these unions even speak for the majority of their members?
I'm in a particularly high profile union, currently complaining about the change to the vaccine roll out. I'm not one bit put out by the change and neither is one single person I work with.

My parents were teachers and more often than no they didn’t agree. The most strident get elected.

I’m not generally into teacher bashing, I think they are pretty good in Ireland, but this is a mistake. There’s no way a 25 year old teacher should be prioritised over a 60 year old.

Rodin · 05-04-2021 6:26pm

picturehangup wrote: »

@ Cork Lass:

One teacher will come into 200 close contacts daily, five days a week, over seven weeks between April-June.

Neither my colleagues nor I finish in late May. House exams continue into June, and have to be then corrected/marked, and reports, then year -group reports must be written up.

That's 7,000 close contacts in that time-frame. Close contact ranging from anything between 40 minutes to 60 minutes.

Just to clarify.

Nobody but over 70s and vulnerable will get vaccine before mid-May.
Even if teachers got the Pfizer vaccine, with full immunity not until 2 weeks after 2nd dose, teachers would now not be immune until 3rd week of June. Right around the time they would be going off for the summer.

There is no rational argument for teachers to skip the queue. They wouldn't be in the classroom to benefit from it.

Beasty · 05-04-2021 6:35pm

OK, drop the summer holidays talk. Teachers are going to be subject to the same restrictions as everyone else on travel and suggesting they are expecting to head overseas is inappropriate when none of us have any idea how restrictions will evolve

Cork Lass · 05-04-2021 6:37pm

Rodin wrote: »

Nobody but over 70s and vulnerable will get vaccine before mid-May.
Even if teachers got the Pfizer vaccine, with full immunity not until 2 weeks after 2nd dose, teachers would now not be immune until 3rd week of June. Right around the time they would be going off for the summer.

There is no rational argument for teachers to skip the queue. They wouldn't be in the classroom to benefit from it.

This is exactly my point. Teachers will all be home for the summer just like the rest of us. I would put supermarket workers before teachers - they have worked all through Covid facing hundred of people every day and dealing with hand to hand cash transactions too. I am not a supermarket worker - I am working from home since March 2020 and as anxious as everyone else to get vaccinated. i genuinely agree that age is the best and fairest way.

Rodin · 05-04-2021 6:41pm

Beasty wrote: »

OK, drop the summer holidays talk. Teachers are going to be subject to the same restrictions as everyone else on travel and suggesting they are expecting to head overseas is inappropriate when none of us have any idea how restrictions will evolve

<snip>

05-04-2021 6:44pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

This is exactly my point. Teachers will all be home for the summer just like the rest of us. I would put supermarket workers before teachers - they have worked all through Covid facing hundred of people every day and dealing with hand to hand cash transactions too. I am not a supermarket worker - I am working from home since March 2020 and as anxious as everyone else to get vaccinated. i genuinely agree that age is the best and fairest way.

+1 on this.
Many more at risk groups than teachers that nobody gives a fiddlers about. It’s the sense of entitlement for me that really takes the biscuit. Rolling out by age is more equitable and will be faster but no no, that’s not good enough for some. I’m 30, I work from home and I won’t be vaccinated for a long time. I’m DESPERATE to get a vaccine but I know others need it more than me.

paddyirish23 · 05-04-2021 6:49pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

This is exactly my point. Teachers will all be home for the summer just like the rest of us. I would put supermarket workers before teachers - they have worked all through Covid facing hundred of people every day and dealing with hand to hand cash transactions too. I am not a supermarket worker - I am working from home since March 2020 and as anxious as everyone else to get vaccinated. i genuinely agree that age is the best and fairest way.

Maybe do a bit of forward thinking here and instead of missing more weeks or months off school from Sept onwards (as Covid looks like it's here too stay and worse in winter) why not bring all schools back 2 or 3 weeks early in Aug and give schools and government a few weeks they can shut them down if needed next winter?

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 6:50pm

And enter the teacher haters . Can I ask if you all feel the same about SNAs ?

Cork Lass · 05-04-2021 6:51pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Maybe do a bit of forward thinking here and instead of missing more weeks or months off school from Sept onwards (as Covid looks like it's here too stay and worse in winter) why not bring all schools back 2 or 3 weeks early in Aug and give schools and government a few weeks they can shut them down if needed next winter?

Can you honestly see any teacher agreeing to go back early - not a hope.

paddyirish23 · 05-04-2021 6:53pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And enter the teacher haters . Can I ask if you all feel the same about SNAs ?

SNA's to be fair should get vaccinated sooner but as the other teachers unions would throw a hiss fit if they were given it I can't see any of them getting it early. Everyone should be done by age is the easiest and quickest way. Older SNA's will get it sooner now too

yabadabado · 05-04-2021 6:55pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Maybe do a bit of forward thinking here and instead of missing more weeks or months off school from Sept onwards (as Covid looks like it's here too stay and worse in winter) why not bring all schools back 2 or 3 weeks early in Aug and give schools and government a few weeks they can shut them down if needed next winter?

There would be uproar from Unions if teachers were asked to return before the last week of August.
I would expect it to be shot down staright away,they are talking about industrial action over
a clearr public health issue with age based vaccine program, imagine the discussion if they were asked to change the holiday period.

Cork Lass · 05-04-2021 6:56pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And enter the teacher haters . Can I ask if you all feel the same about SNAs ?

i think SNA's that have to have personal contact with students should be vaccinated before teachers but again, like the teachers they will be on holiday for the summer in few weeks.

paddyirish23 · 05-04-2021 6:57pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

Can you honestly see any teacher agreeing to go back early - not a hope.

No chance of it, can't even get the July provision in most schools last few years. Was more of a wishful thought. Did I read England are making their teacher's work into the summer?

05-04-2021 6:57pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And enter the teacher haters . Can I ask if you all feel the same about SNAs ?

I'm not sure when it comes to this it is anything to do with teacher haters, and honestly I stick up for teachers all the time.
This change is fair.

05-04-2021 6:59pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

No chance of it, can't even get the July provision in most schools last few years. Was more of a wishful thought. Did I read England are making their teacher's work into the summer?

No they are not.
Holidays in English schools are only 6 weeks long.

political analyst · 05-04-2021 7:00pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

No chance of it, can't even get the July provision in most schools last few years. Was more of a wishful thought. Did I read England are making their teacher's work into the summer?

It hasn't been decided yet.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-longer-school-days-shorter-summer-holidays-and-five-term-years-all-under-consideration-says-education-secretary-12238622

Pringles123 · 05-04-2021 7:00pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

Can you honestly see any teacher agreeing to go back early - not a hope.

I would if they wanted to extend the holidays in the winter for covid reasons.

In relation to vaccines I do not think things are going to make a whole lot of difference with supply from here to June/July so it might not make a difference. I do have the expectation that all teachers and students are vaccinated by September. I even think students should be prioritised over adults working from home if children are being vaccinated.

paddyirish23 · 05-04-2021 7:02pm

bubblypop wrote: »

No they are not.
Holidays in English schools are only 6 weeks long.

At least they are looking into it, what are we doing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56175893

Cluedo Monopoly · 05-04-2021 7:02pm

The timing of this alongside the Beacon-Gerard story will not do the teachers any favours on the entitlement stakes.
Teachers will be vaccinated as per age group which is only right and fair. This simple vaccination system will actually make the rollout faster. They have 6 weeks left teaching in secondary and should all be vaccinated by Sept.

The unions have painted the teachers in a bad light since Covid began. The union rep on Drivetime embarrassed himself. He did not listen to or understand the questions and just moaned.

political analyst · 05-04-2021 7:03pm

Isn't it both the secondary teachers' unions fault that a Leaving Cert student who has asthma was prevented from sitting an oral exam even though she had a medical exemption from the mask rule?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teen-with-asthma-refused-entry-to-school-for-leaving-cert-oral-exam-as-she-was-not-wearing-mask-40274727.html

khalessi · 05-04-2021 7:03pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

No chance of it, can't even get the July provision in most schools last few years. Was more of a wishful thought. Did I read England are making their teacher's work into the summer?

So why do you think teachers are difficult to get for JP?

realdanbreen · 05-04-2021 7:06pm

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.

Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.

Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What really needs to happen now is for revenue to start doing their job and go after these parasites for all the cash they have been trousering for grinds down through the years.

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 7:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

+1 on this.
Many more at risk groups than teachers that nobody gives a fiddlers about. It’s the sense of entitlement for me that really takes the biscuit. Rolling out by age is more equitable and will be faster but no no, that’s not good enough for some. I’m 30, I work from home and I won’t be vaccinated for a long time. I’m DESPERATE to get a vaccine but I know others need it more than me.

So you are desperate but safe at home ?When are you available to take over the class of 30 senior infants who can’t socially distance and where ventilation means an open door ?

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 7:10pm

Cork Lass wrote: »

i think SNA's that have to have personal contact with students should be vaccinated before teachers but again, like the teachers they will be on holiday for the summer in few weeks.

Do you honestly believe an infant teacher can stay 2 m away for the children?Name another job where people are asked to ignore 2 m social distancing , without masks for hours on end and with up to and beyond30 people in the same space ?

enricoh · 05-04-2021 7:10pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And enter the teacher haters . Can I ask if you all feel the same about SNAs ?

Our kids creche has been open since the start of the new year, all the girls are working away on a fraction of teachers wages.
Some kids haven't been back to school since crimbo and the teachers unions are threatening to pull the plug already! Let them at it.

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 7:11pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

At least they are looking into it, what are we doing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56175893

This is the equivalent of July provision .

Larsso30 · 05-04-2021 7:12pm

.42. wrote: »

The Government should let them strike and continue with the age groups.

100%

No more deserving that the Garda or tesco workers. Shameful carry on

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 7:12pm

political analyst wrote: »

Isn't it both the secondary teachers' unions fault that a Leaving Cert student who has asthma was prevented from sitting an oral exam even though she had a medical exemption from the mask rule?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teen-with-asthma-refused-entry-to-school-for-leaving-cert-oral-exam-as-she-was-not-wearing-mask-40274727.html

Her GP refused to
stand over her “ exemption.”

byhookorbycrook · 05-04-2021 7:14pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What really needs to happen now is for revenue to start doing their job and go after these parasites for all the cash they have been trousering for grinds down through the years.

Here’s a thing . Never did grinds , never would .Report anyone you think has been abusing the system .

Darc19 · 05-04-2021 7:18pm

This is not specifically against teachers. It is very much ASTI management who are very millitant and many of the string pullers are retired teachers.

Members are then given a very one sided argument that is very strong on hyperbole and not exactly balanced, thus creating a mood that ensures that whatever bullsh1t proposal is on the table it is guaranteed to pass.

Remember, many retired teachers are still members of ASTI and still hold voting rights

JimmyCorkhill · 05-04-2021 7:18pm

The teachers must be the most entitled bunch in Irish society* (only including those in society who work)

Pussyhands · 05-04-2021 7:19pm

Jaysus teachers strike more often than the world ten pin bowling champion.

Pussyhands · 05-04-2021 7:20pm

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

The teachers must be the most entitled bunch in Irish society* (only including those in society who work)

I wish someone had the balls to come out and face up to teachers. They claim "we're in an enclosed space with 30 kids a day!!!!" yet shop workers are far worse....they actually touch products touched by customers all day long coming into contact with a couple hundred people.

griffin100 · 05-04-2021 7:21pm

If you believe the public health rationale for vaccinating by age, then what teachers are looking to do is to bump those who are more likely to die from Covid down the vaccination waiting list for their own benefit. Classy.

The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

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