The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Str8outtaWuhan

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah what’s new here. Teachers think they run this place!
Dya know what, get them vaccinated to fluich, they’re never going back to their work otherwise!

Teachers provide more of our Presidents and Taoiseach's and any other profession, 2 of the last 3 Taoiseachs and the last 3 presidents were all educators .

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Would that be all supermarket workers or just full-time?

Your having some meltdown here mate



Looks to me,if the government are unwilling to accept critism.for unilaterally doubling back on an agreement

They shouldnt have made the agreement to begin with.....life is about accepting responsibility for your actions,which is what needs happening here.....

raising concerns part time supermarket workers might get a vaccine,to paper over yet another balls up by the government is patethic

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol.....rattled as fcuk

Perhaps you miss the point. LOL indeed

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Your having some meltdown here mate



Looks to me,if the government are unwilling to accept critism.for unilaterally doubling back on an agreement

They shouldnt have made the agreement to begin with.....life is about accepting responsibility for your actions,which is what needs happening here.....

raising part time supermarket workers,to paper over yet another balls up by the government is patethic

You said you wanted supermarket workers done before teachers. Which ones?

markpb

joebloggs32 wrote: »

There unions need to highlight how the change of the roll out impacts them just as the teachers unions are doing for their members.

How does it impact them? The government claim to have scientific proof that age matters more than the level of interaction when it comes to the risk of death and serious illness.

As a teacher have to spend 1 hour at a time in a room that is 50 m² with up to 24 students, up to 6 times a day. My SNA colleagues have to often provide intimate care to some of our students. To overlook them is particularly galling.

No one is suggesting that teachers are not interacting with lots of children. The science appears to say that the interaction is not a serious risk. Child to adult transmission is provably lower than adult to adult and the age profile of teachers makes them less prone to being seriously ill if they do get it. Older teachers will receive it earlier than older teachers because they are more at risk.

I was initially in an early(-ish) vaccination group that has been demoted too but I’m not complaining. Vaccination programs work for society, not for individuals.

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

You said you wanted supermarket workers done before teachers. Which ones?

Except i didnt (said ive no issue if they were).....the fact you've resorted to outright lying,in place of facts and logic.......


Kind of says it all really

Dempo1

The ASTI and AGSI really should amalgamate and form MOAN.

It's really beyond tiresome listening to both showers moan and whinge about their entitlements and how hard done by they are. I suspect grass root members utterly embarrassed at this stage.

We've all suffered, we've all had risk, we're in this Together unless you sit on the executive of both these unions.

cms88

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Supermarket workers 'deserve' the vaccine more than teachers. There for 8 hours a day taking s**te from those who won't wear a mask, or from those too lazy to move away to pack their own shopping in a designated area. No clue what the Covid status of the next spluttering customer is either.
Weekends, Christmas late, Bank Holidays, the lot.

The ASTI are showing us who they believe are the true 'privileged' people of the country.

This is really backing up the idea that teachers think they're just better than everyone else.

Supermarket workers are nad have been a much higher risk since the very start, yet the likes to the ASTI would look down their noses at them.

Dempo1

cms88 wrote: »

This is really backing up the idea that teachers think they're just better than everyone else.

Supermarket workers are nad have been a much higher risk since the very start, yet the likes to the ASTI would look down their noses at them.

Couldn't agree more, throughout the Pandemic along with Frontline medical workers, supermarket staff have and continue to trundle on without a whisper, indeed I don't agree with much Leo the leaker has to say but he upset some of his FG colleagues at a recent PM when he wondered why not a word about retail workers and the like, instead TD'S More concerned about Gardai and Teachers, speaks volumes on where their loyalties rest. Disgusting quite frankly.

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

indeed I don't agree with much Leo the leaker has to say but he upset some of his FG colleagues at a recent PM when he wondered why not a word about retail workers and the like,

How is anyone still falling for what Varadkar says?

Do you really think that retail workers feature at all on Varadkar's hierarchy of worthiness? Retail workers should be prioritised too, but they have no effective representation. ISME and RTI exist only for the bosses, which is also where Varadkar's sympathies are. I just cannot grasp how anyone is still ascribing an iota of sincerity to that man.

Anyway, it's probably true that the age-based approach is more efficient (faster, I mean) than an epidemiological approach that analyses the concentration of disease transmission. If we were following the medical science logic, the teachers and retail staff would be right.

I see some names in this thread (not you, but I'm not sure of your own position) of people who correctly assert that schools are a source of transmission, but have a near-adolescent grudge against teachers, saying teachers have no case here. That doesn't compute.

Look, it will be hard to validate retail workers but all teachers and guards are on a list somewhere in the bowels of government building. Prioritising them (as vectors of disease, not as victims of disease) seems very straightforward.

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Except i didnt (said ive no issue if they were).....the fact you've resorted to outright lying,in place of facts and logic.......


Kind of says it all really

You said you had no problem with supermarket staff being done before teachers. Does this mean you are not in favour of it? Rattled...

Gregor Samsa

Some very confusing quoting going on here by Blaaz_
and Finty Lemon. Would yiz not put your comments outside the quote tags?

Teachers say we should listen to teachers when it comes to matters pertaining to education. Maybe we should let experts in public health decide on matters pertaining to public health.

They’ve been tone deaf recently.

For Forks Sake

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Teachers provide more of our Presidents and Taoiseach's and any other profession, 2 of the last 3 Taoiseachs and the last 3 presidents were all educators .

Kenny and Martin have 5 years teaching between them, not sure what your point is meant to be

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Your takeaway from this is that no occupation at greater risk deserves consideration.


Mine would be that all occupations at greater risk deserve consideration

Your takeaway from this is that the occupation with a strong union should get nothing while those in power can point to the occupation without a strong union

My takeaway is that all occupations without a strong union should be pointing at the occupation with a strong union and demanding what they get

No war but a class war, brothers

No. My takeaway from this is that the unions do not get to decide public health policy. There are clear guidelines established across numerous jurisdictions that are designed to deliver the greatest level of mitigation in the shortest time. That model is age based once you move beyond the medically vulnerable. The primary reason this creates rancour among lobby groups is precisely because there is no specific lobby group for the over 50s, or the 60 to 70s or the 40 to 50s etc. If the epidemiological evidence said that teachers are not a high risk category, would that be accepted by unions? Or does non qualified opinion get a hearing too?

You seem to want to funnel policy through a hierarchy of interest groups. Treat based on who shouts loudest? Maybe I picked up wrong?

picturehangup

Darc19 wrote: »

It was looking like the ASTI would not have their annual teacher strike ballot this Easter...

Then they found a topic.

They want healthy 25 year old teaching staff to be vaccinated before those at far far higher risk.


Easter just wouldn't be Easter without the annual strike threat by exceptionally well paid ASTI teachers.


Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

Just to put this into some context.
I am a 55 year old teacher, working in a secondary school. I come into contact with approx 100 students per day at the very least.

I was unfortunate to contract covid at work last Christmas, along with three others of my colleagues around the same time. I was very sick, but recovered well enough to continue online teaching a full timetable in January. Two of my colleagues were not so fortunate, and were hospitalised, although they were younger than I.

There is no way I wish to contract this horrible thing again, or any other potentially more harmful variant, as I might not be so lucky the next time, given that I suffer asthma. My husband is a cancer survivor, and miraculously he did not catch it from me on THIS OCCASION. I do not want this again, and I would like to be vaccinated NOW. Enough is enough, and the unions are quite justified in their pursuit of the vaccine for their members. Two metre rules, etc... it just doesn't happen in a real class situation, kids won't wear masks properly, we are sitting ducks, as proven.

So.. back off, please.

yabadabado

Most people what to be vaccinated NOW but that's just not how it works.

suicide_circus

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Bus drivers have more interactions than petrol pump attendants, who have more than supermarket workers, who have more than teachers. Should they be first?

I haven't seen a petrol pump attendant outside south east asia in 20 years

Get Real

Any of us who work from home shouldn't really have an opinion either way. In theory we've nowhere to go bar the shops.

But it shouldn't be about one group alone. All groups facing the public should be vaccinated first imo. If nothing, to save money on sick days/payment off two weeks of isolation to start.

Why should a 55yo be vaccinated if they work from home, when there's a potential for a younger bus driver/retail worker to get it, or at least become a contact and have to take two weeks off and either be paid by work for mot being there or claim 700 euro off the state.

No issue with all public facing roles getting the vaccine first if it were to happen.

meeeeh

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How is anyone still falling for what Varadkar says?

Do you really think that retail workers feature at all on Varadkar's hierarchy of worthiness? Retail workers should be prioritised too, but they have no effective representation. ISME and RTI exist only for the bosses, which is also where Varadkar's sympathies are. I just cannot grasp how anyone is still ascribing an iota of sincerity to that man.

Anyway, it's probably true that the age-based approach is more efficient (faster, I mean) than an epidemiological approach that analyses the concentration of disease transmission. If we were following the medical science logic, the teachers and retail staff would be right.

I see some names in this thread (not you, but I'm not sure of your own position) of people who correctly assert that schools are a source of transmission, but have a near-adolescent grudge against teachers, saying teachers have no case here. That doesn't compute.

Look, it will be hard to validate retail workers but all teachers and guards are on a list somewhere in the bowels of government building. Prioritising them (as vectors of disease, not as victims of disease) seems very straightforward.

The question is who is most at risk from Covid not who is most at risk of getting Covid. A 65 year old is 70 times more likely to die from Covid than 25 year old (or something similar I'm quoting from memory). You have to vaccinate an awful lot of younger people to avoid deaths or hospital overcrowding for one 65 year old.

People always react in overly emotional way and think their position on the list has to do with their personal or professional worth. It pure statistics, less people in hospitals and less people dying should be the only priority. Not to mention that vaccinating young teachers just weeks before holidays makes no sense. If they are vaccinated with Pfizer somewhere in the middle of April they won't develop immunity till May and full immunity late in May, two weeks after the second dose.

So even in comparison to guards and shop workers it makes no sense to vaccinate school teachers as priority at the end of the school year.

Finty Lemon

suicide_circus wrote: »

I haven't seen a petrol pump attendant outside south east asia in 20 years

Strictly valet in my part of the world

You know what I mean, petrol station employees.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Teachers provide more of our Presidents and Taoiseach's and any other profession, 2 of the last 3 Taoiseachs and the last 3 presidents were all educators .

If your trying to drum up support I'd keep that one quiet!

Treppen

yabadabado wrote: »

Most people what to be vaccinated NOW but that's just not how it works.

Most people don't teach at least 150 different people a day in an enclosed space, so that's not how everybody works either.

machiavellianme

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meeeeh wrote: »

The question is who is most at risk from Covid not who is most at risk of getting Covid. A 65 year old is 70 times more likely to die from Covid than 25 year old (or something similar I'm quoting from memory). You have to vaccinate an awful lot of younger people to avoid deaths or hospital overcrowding for one 65 year old.

People always react in overly emotional way and think their position on the list has to do with their personal or professional worth. It pure statistics, less people in hospitals and less people dying should be the only priority. Not to mention that vaccinating young teachers just weeks before holidays makes no sense. If they are vaccinated with Pfizer somewhere in the middle of April they won't develop immunity till May and full immunity late in May, two weeks after the second dose.

So even in comparison to guards and shop workers it makes no sense to vaccinate school teachers as priority at the end of the school year.

Excellent point, leave the Teachers till July/August for September immunity, unless they get there sooner through age merit. Why should they jump the queue over folk carrying out other close proximity roles or even those in critical roles such as control centres for electricity, water, aviation, gas etc

yabadabado

Treppen wrote: »

Most people don't teach at least 150 different people a day in an enclosed space, so that's not how everybody works either.

Do you think teachers should be a special case and should get it now ?

Rodin

They'll be off on their holliers shortly anyway and won't be at work... again.
Id call their bluff.

meeeeh

machiavellianme wrote: »

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Excellent point, leave the Teachers till July/August for September immunity, unless they get there sooner through age merit. Why should they jump the queue over folk carrying out other close proximity roles or even those in critical roles such as control centres for electricity, water, aviation, gas etc

I'm not saying teachers should be at the end of the queue. Even WHO said speed trumps everything and considering older people will more likely end in hospitals and keep those numbers up so we can't relax the restrictions. My point was that even if we prioritise teachers we are vaccinating them just before the two months they will be able to self isolate.

Cork Lass

From late May onwards most teachers will be on holidays until September. During that time they are just regular citizens so they should get in the queue like the rest of us.

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

They'll be off on their holliers shortly anyway and won't be at work... again.
Id call their bluff.

I find it comically absurd that a 25 year old teacher would deem themselves important enough to skip the queue ahead of a diabetic in their mid-sixties. And most of us invested with common sense are aware of the ulterior motive: high summer in the sun overseas with their colleagues while the rest of us languish at home awaiting our turn. Government finally make a rational decision, graduating rollout of vaccines on basis of age after critical cohorts are tended to. And the teaching unions used to holding the country to ransom have thrown an almighty strop, the latest in a long line of them. If there is any justice in the world, they will be told exactly where to go. And it won't be near the head of the queue.

picturehangup

@ Cork Lass:

One teacher will come into 200 close contacts daily, five days a week, over seven weeks between April-June.

Neither my colleagues nor I finish in late May. House exams continue into June, and have to be then corrected/marked, and reports, then year -group reports must be written up.

That's 7,000 close contacts in that time-frame. Close contact ranging from anything between 40 minutes to 60 minutes.

Just to clarify.