Remote working - the future?

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 1:07pm

markpb wrote: »

Anyone who believes that there will be a mass exodus of staff from companies without WFH is fooling themselves. People gripe about things in their workplaces all the time but don't end up leaving because of them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps those negatives also exist in other companies in the same industry or there aren't any jobs in the same industry or role. People griped about Ryanair's working conditions for years and yet they're still around, doing the same thing (office and cabin staff alike). There are also companies who have a bunch of employees that are easily replaced so they won't care if employees leave. Not every employee is invaluable.

Ryanair is exactly as i described above. People work for Ryanair in the hope a BA or Aerlingus etc will pick them up once they have the experience.
Nothing wrong by the way about Ryanairs working conditions. They just have a few rules which other airlines don't(like buying uniforms)

The problem you will find is not the majority, but the minority. The minority will be the good people. The ones that keep the office running. That are the best people he has. They are the ones who will leave.

31-05-2021 1:08pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Where have you been looking that costs €600 per month? You've posted you live in Galway, here are just some examples where it costs much less then that.

Galway:

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.

Superpixel Labs – monthly €250.

(https://www.thinkbusiness.ie/articles/coworking-spaces-in-ireland/)

31-05-2021 1:14pm

BronsonTB wrote: »

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

31-05-2021 1:18pm

It'll all work out ok if folk accept that their particular job on their current employer may not turn out to be be what they want post pandemic.

I expect quite a few people will change jobs/companies to end up in their desired work situation.

Deleted User wrote: »

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-laws-will-give-employees-in-the-state-the-option-to-permanently-work-from-home-1.4458770

I imagine companies will be quite entitled to require their staff to be in the office for a proportion of their working week or month....

31-05-2021 1:23pm

Young_gunner wrote: »

This “strong belief” of middle managers is entirely without foundation!

The same middle managers who pushed for a culture of “presentism” in the past- outdated dinosaurs the lot of them

31-05-2021 1:28pm

Augeo wrote: »

I imagine companies will be quite entitled to require their staff to be in the office for a proportion of their working week or month....

What do you base that on? There was no suggestion of that in the article.

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 1:38pm

I very much doubt the Irish government is going to step in and tell MNC that they have to allow all staff to work from home. That would be crazy and could risk companies setting up offices here or even some leaving.

31-05-2021 1:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you base that on? There was no suggestion of that in the article.

I said "I imagine".
Clearly that suggests it is my opinion......... And a government press release suggests so also

It's almost reasonable to expect that 100% wfh might not be possible for lots and lots of roles.......

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/6b64a-tanaiste-signs-code-of-practice-on-right-to-disconnect/#:~:text=Currently%20in%20Ireland%2C%20all%20employees,facilitated%20as%20far%20as%20possible.

Not all work lends itself easily to remote working, for example where a worker needs to be physically present on site to do a task, interact with others, or use location-specific specialised machinery or equipment. In cases where remote work is suitable, a hybrid or blended model with a combination of remote work and onsite work may be the preferred arrangement. Some organisations may prefer a model where employees are required to come onsite only a few days a week or month. Some companies will need a core of ‘anchor’ people, who will be in the office or on site most days because they need to be. The new law will look at how all of these possibilities can be facilitated.

31-05-2021 1:49pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

I very much doubt the Irish government is going to step in and tell MNC that they have to allow all staff to work from home. That would be crazy and could risk companies setting up offices here or even some leaving.

Thats not the purpose of the proposed legislation.

The Irish government is not going to step in and tell MNCs that they have to allow all staff to work from home - but if an employee makes a formal request for a WFH option, they've going to have to provide a very good reason for denying the request.

Yellow_Fern · 31-05-2021 1:52pm

There is no free lunches. Working from home has advantages but it is highly likely it changes how workers network. I would envisage that in the long term it results in less promotion and training opportunities.

31-05-2021 1:56pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The same middle managers who pushed for a culture of “presentism” in the past- outdated dinosaurs the lot of them

WFH has demonstrated how unnecessary they really are.

31-05-2021 2:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

............ but if an employee makes a formal request for a WFH option, they've going to have to provide a very good reason for denying the request.

But surely a response like, yes of course you can WFH but you may be required on-site 20% of the time would be the norm/acceptable?

C3PO · 31-05-2021 2:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

I’ll believe that when I see it - an employer will have no problem coming up with reasons why they do not think WFH is a suitable option

31-05-2021 2:38pm

Augeo wrote: »

But surely a response like, yes of course you can WFH but you may be required on-site 20% of the time would be the norm/acceptable?

It would be acceptable to me, yes.

I think its only a minority who would prefer WFH 100% without ever having to step inside a HQ ever again.

Just like I think its only minority who want the opposite - to be WFO fulltime.

We're dealing with minorities on both sides here.

Most people are very happy with a compromise based on flexibility.

31-05-2021 2:46pm

C3PO wrote: »

I’ll believe that when I see it - an employer will have no problem coming up with reasons why they do not think WFH is a suitable option

No doubt some will try. And some will put up with it.

But in the long run, will it be in their best interest to continue to refuse to be flexible if their best and brightest staff look to the companies who will offer them more flexible arrangements? Especially now they've had a taste of it.

WFO may very well suit younger 20-somethings with fewer commitments on their time outside their workplace / social life.

But the thirty somethings, those are the people that when the families come along, they no longer want to be stressed of their heads trying to get kids to creches in the morning at 7am, then dashing out the door on the dot of 5pm because the creche closes at 6:30pm and they're facing a 90 minute commute?

Those people are the ones with experience, and they're the ones who are going to say "feck this, I'm looking for something more flexible, and if you won't give it to me, somewhere else will. "

31-05-2021 2:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

...............

But the thirty somethings, those are the people that when the families come along, they no longer want to be stressed of their heads trying to get kids to creches in the morning at 7am, then dashing out the door on the dot of 5pm because the creche closes at 6:30pm and they're facing a 90 minute commute?.............

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

31-05-2021 2:59pm

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

Yeah I'd agree, but only because people payed outrageous rents to be within a reasonable distance of work. Now people have more options and flexibility.

31-05-2021 3:06pm

I think it's inevitable some folk will want 100% wfh and their employer might want a hybrid approach......... folk may need to switch jobs to get what they want.

Loads of folk successfully worked 100% WFH during the pandemic but their employers might well require them in the office a day a week or a couple of days a month....... there'll be cases where meeting in the middle doesn't suit one or both parties.

Likewise some folk wanting to return to the office 3 or 4 days per week may be despondent at the concept of 100% wfh going forward.

It'll all work itself out but it won't be painless for everyone.

B.A._Baracus · 31-05-2021 3:09pm

I would prefer hybrid. 2 maybe 3 days a week.

31-05-2021 3:13pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I would prefer hybrid. 2 maybe 3 days a week.

I think that's the way it will go. A lot of the discussion is fixated on 100% WFH but I reckon that will be the minority of roles.

31-05-2021 3:13pm

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

I have an 18km commute in Dublin from home-to-office and would always allow myself 90 minutes to do it, and even then, I'd sometimes be cutting it close.

When you're commuting up against time is very stressful, whether its a 30 minute commute or a 90 minute one - that is what's relevant.

Its not fun dragging small kids out of bed to go to a creche/minder only to collect them late in the day and only see them for a short time before they have to go to bed. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and nearly had a nervous breakdown, doing it. Those days are long over for me, but I fully empathise with any parent trying to juggle a commute and kids.

Not to exclude the childfree, WFH also gives those who are childfree more time for any interests they want to pursue, too. I've seen so many comments from people since the pandemic began about how they finally have the time to exercise, cook from scratch, look after themselves better.

How can that be anything but a positive, even for employers? Surely less stressed, healthier employees are better employees?

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 3:20pm

Augeo wrote: »

Another extreme, most folk never had 90 minute commutes IMO.

Really?
I worked on South side Dublin and used to live on Northside. The routes to get in was limited so it was leave at 6.30 and get in for 7. Or leave at 7.30 and get in anytime between 9 - 10. That was the massive distance of 15km according to google maps

Standard enough travel time in Dublin. Try travelling from one side of the M50 to the other during rush hour and see how long it takes.

31-05-2021 3:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have an 18km commute in Dublin from home-to-office and would always allow myself 90 minutes to do it, and even then, I'd sometimes be cutting it close.

When you're commuting up against time is very stressful, whether its a 30 minute commute or a 90 minute one - that is what's relevant.

Its not fun dragging small kids out of bed to go to a creche/minder only to collect them late in the day and only see them for a short time before they have to go to bed. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and nearly had a nervous breakdown, doing it. Those days are long over for me, but I fully empathise with any parent trying to juggle a commute and kids.

Not to exclude the childfree, WFH also gives those who are childfree more time for any interests they want to pursue, too. I've seen so many comments from people since the pandemic began about how they finally have the time to exercise, cook from scratch, look after themselves better.

How can that be anything but a positive, even for employers? Surely less stressed, healthier employees are better employees?

I'm fully aware of the benefits and pitfalls of WFH, I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes.

You are now moving from ".they're facing a 90 minute commute" to the bolded piece in response

Kids will still have to be dropped to creche etc before the first con call of the day going forward........ WFH going forward won't be like WFH during a pandemic with kids on the knee etc as creche was closed.

Mrs OBumble · 31-05-2021 3:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where have you been looking that costs €600 per month? You've posted you live in Galway, here are just some examples where it costs much less then that.

Galway:

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.

Superpixel Labs – monthly €250.

(https://www.thinkbusiness.ie/articles/coworking-spaces-in-ireland/)

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.
Closed. And as you can imagine, a "free" service from a bank comes with a lot of strings attached.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.
Exists to support/ incubate startups and growing businesses. They aren't going to sign up an existing business or an individualnon-entrepreneur. Also not within 2km of my home.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.
That's for a hot desk in a noisy open plan area. No external monitor (unless you carry it in each day, so not ergonomic. No on site storage. Comes with pressure to get involved in their community (and that's not what my manager wants me to spend time doing).

Superpixel Labs – closed long, long ago.

If you want up to date prices - look on www.dafte.ie

31-05-2021 3:29pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Really?
I worked on South side Dublin and used to live on Northside. The routes to get in was limited so it was leave at 6.30 and get in for 7. Or leave at 7.30 and get in anytime between 9 - 10. That was the massive distance of 15km according to google maps

Standard enough travel time in Dublin. Try travelling from one side of the M50 to the other during rush hour and see how long it takes.

I said most folk, are we only taking about folk working in Dublin now?
I'm well aware of Dublin traffic etc etc thank you very much, no need for the nonsense I've bolded, cheers.

90 mins commutes are not standard enough for Dublin to be fair.

C3PO · 31-05-2021 3:31pm

Something that has been completely ignored in this thread is whether people have a suitable working environment at home. Once the pandemic is over, employers will be obliged to ensure that their staff are working in suitable conditions. They will need to inspect and clear these from a health and safety perspective. Proper desk and suitable chair, secure, segregated area etc etc. How many people will have these facilities in their homes?

31-05-2021 3:34pm

C3PO wrote: »

................. Once the pandemic is over,.............

Indeed, many folk seem oblivious to the quite obvious fact that the pandemic was an emergency situation so many things were curtailed and permitted. Going forward there will be a return to normal and that doesn't include WFH from the table with the kids watching cartoons from the sofa a few feet away.

31-05-2021 3:36pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.
Closed. And as you can imagine, a "free" service from a bank comes with a lot of strings attached.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.
Exists to support/ incubate startups and growing businesses. They aren't going to sign up an existing business or an individual non-entrepreneur. Also not within 2km of my home.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.
That's for a hot desk in a noisy open plan area. No external monitor (unless you carry it in each day, so not ergonomic. No on site storage. Comes with pressure to get involved in their community (and that's not what my manager wants me to spend time doing).

Superpixel Labs – closed long, long ago.

If you want up to date prices - look on www.dafte.ie

Sigh. Yet again, you're offered solutions, and all you look for is more problems. There will be other workspaces.

Also not within 2km of your home?!? That's part of your criteria now?

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 3:40pm

Augeo wrote: »

I said most folk, are we only taking about folk working in Dublin now?
I'm well aware of Dublin traffic etc etc thank you very much, no need for the nonsense I've bolded, cheers.

90 mins commutes are not standard enough for Dublin to be fair.

Dublin is the capital and one of the highest concentrations of staff in ireland, so yes we are talking about Dublin.

If one City is going to gain the most out of WFM it is Dublin which has a public transport system not able to cater and the road system which cannot either.

Mrs OBumble · 31-05-2021 3:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sigh. Yet again, you're offered solutions, and all you look for is more problems. There will be other workspaces.

Also not within 2km of your home?!? That's part of your criteria now?

I'm very well well aware of the range of workspaces, and researched them extensively.

Your "solutions", frankly, aren't.

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

31-05-2021 3:42pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Dublin is the capital and one of the highest concentrations of staff in ireland, so yes we are talking about Dublin.................

You might be but I'm sure there are plenty folk interested in WFH etc who don't live or work in Dublin tbh.
If you think most folk working in Dublin had a 90 min commute time you are off your tree btw.

31-05-2021 3:42pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

That was over a year ago? I thought this discussion was about the future.

chattering · 31-05-2021 3:45pm

Even small organisations can become truly globalised with people working from home from all around the world. Provided job-holder rarely needed in headquarters of course.

31-05-2021 3:49pm

Augeo wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the benefits and pitfalls of WFH, I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes.

You are now moving from ".they're facing a 90 minute commute" to the bolded piece in response

Kids will still have to be dropped to creche etc before the first con call of the day going forward........ WFH going forward won't be like WFH during a pandemic with kids on the knee etc as creche was closed.

Yes they will but it will make a huge difference if you can drop your children off at school or childcare and be back at your workspace in your own home in 10/15 minutes.

Most parents won't typically choose to put their kids in schools or childcare which is much further away then that!

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 3:50pm

Augeo wrote: »

You might be but I'm sure there are plenty folk interested in WFH etc who don't live or work in Dublin tbh.
If you think most folk working in Dublin had a 90 min commute time you are off your tree btw.

I don't get your point, I was using Dublin as an example, no idea why that is a problem?
Its a chat about WFH, why so aggressive?

The average is 1 hour. So who is "off your tree"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/what-are-the-average-commute-times-in-europe-5005548-Feb2020/#:~:text=PEOPLE%20IN%20DUBLIN%20have%20the%20fifth%20longest%20average%20commuting%20time,the%20rest%20of%20the%20country.

31-05-2021 3:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes they will but it will make a huge difference if you can drop your children off at school or childcare and be back at your workspace in your own home in 10/15 minutes.

Most parents won't typically choose to put their kids in schools or childcare which is much further away then that!

Yes, that's all very obvious, again I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes (which is apparently untrue for most of folk working in Dublin, which is bullsh1t IMO)

31-05-2021 3:51pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

I don't get your point, I was using Dublin as an example, no idea why that is a problem?
Its a chat about WFH, why so aggressive?

The average is 1 hour. So who is "off your tree"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/what-are-the-average-commute-times-in-europe-5005548-Feb2020/#:~:text=PEOPLE%20IN%20DUBLIN%20have%20the%20fifth%20longest%20average%20commuting%20time,the%20rest%20of%20the%20country.

If the average is an hour most folk can't be doing 90 mins

So, it seems you are off your tree if you think most folk were spending 90 mins commuting when the average was under an hour.

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 3:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That was over a year ago? I thought this discussion was about the future.

With a certain poster it is just a list of problems. Best to ignore at this stage because it is gone past ridiculous at this stage

31-05-2021 3:54pm

Poll results so far, 46% opt for ..........Hybrid e.g. going to office twice per week

31-05-2021 3:56pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm very well well aware of the range of workspaces, and researched them extensively.

Your "solutions", frankly, aren't.

The 2km was the government's criteria, not mine.

And you, frankly, aren't interested in finding any solutions. Only problems.

The only thing you're interested in, is nothing less than a full time return to the office.

Well, good luck with that.

ineedeuro · 31-05-2021 3:58pm

Augeo wrote: »

If the average is an hour most folk can't be doing 90 mins
So, it seems you are off your tree if you think most folk were spending 90 mins commuting when the average was under an hour.

I said "Standard enough travel time in Dublin" in the first place. Not most as you claim, best to read people posts I find

As per the link the average time is 60 mins, so that means some people do less and some people do more. You do understand what "average" means?

31-05-2021 4:03pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, that's all very obvious, again I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes (which is apparently untrue for most of folk working in Dublin, which is bullsh1t IMO)

Well, we'll have to disagree on that.

I've been commuting in this city for nearly 40 years, (including my secondary school years) some of it on public transport and some of it by car, and I'd never allow less time than that, and definitely not in the mornings.

31-05-2021 4:24pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, that's all very obvious, again I just stated that most folk never had 90 minute commutes (which is apparently untrue for most of folk working in Dublin, which is bullsh1t IMO)

Yes thats your opinion. Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. For 2 years I had a 90 minute commute one way. Living in one part of Dublin and working in another part.

Pogue eile · 31-05-2021 4:45pm

All I know for sure is I don't ever want to share an office with Augeo....

Mrs OBumble · 31-05-2021 4:56pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, we'll have to disagree on that.

I've been commuting in this city for nearly 40 years, (including my secondary school years) some of it on public transport and some of it by car, and I'd never allow less time than that, and definitely not in the mornings.

Surely you'd eventually to learn to choose work or study opportunities that are closer to home?

Pogue eile · 31-05-2021 4:58pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Surely you'd eventually to learn to choose work or study opportunities that are closer to home?

Umm cos life is always that simple!

PhilOssophy · 31-05-2021 5:22pm

The big winner of this post-pandemic world will be the employer who doesn't care where the people work from. Come in to the office, grand. Work from home, grand.
Once the job is done, don't care where you work from.
The big loser will be the company full of finger wavers or inefficiencies.

Antares35 · 31-05-2021 5:27pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Umm cos life is always that simple!

Sure look, when I raised the point about childcare flexibility as a WFH benefit, same poster also informed me that nobody asked me to have kids

there's a lot of idealism going on!

Antares35 · 31-05-2021 5:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes thats your opinion. Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. For 2 years I had a 90 minute commute one way. Living in one part of Dublin and working in another part.

Same, especially when the journey has two legs and if one goes àrse up you miss the other. I often commuted well over an hour within Dublin.

31-05-2021 5:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A list of solutions

Followed by a bizarre list of "problems"

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.
Closed. And as you can imagine, a "free" service from a bank comes with a lot of strings attached.

Actually its the exact opposite of that. As stated on the website "There’s no need to contact anyone before using the space – you’re encouraged to drop in, find a desk, open up your laptop and get to work" and thats it

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.
Exists to support/ incubate startups and growing businesses. They aren't going to sign up an existing business or an individualnon-entrepreneur. Also not within 2km of my home.

No such distance limit exists

Deleted User wrote: »

Sigh. Yet again, you're offered solutions, and all you look for is more problems. There will be other workspaces.

Also not within 2km of your home?!? That's part of your criteria now?

Keep up, these are the Ballinspittle goalposts, havent you figured that out by now lol

Anyway Mrsb, here is the hub map, have a look, theres 11 locations in Galway, I look forward to hearing whats wrong with each of them

Remote working - the future?

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