Remote working - the future?

BronsonTB

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

ineedeuro

BronsonTB wrote: »

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

This is the thing, companies will have to offer some WFH. Otherwise the better employees will go to alternatives.

ELM327

BronsonTB wrote: »

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

They will have higher attrition then.

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

City Centre's won't just decline. Tell half of the 18-20 somethings living in some small town in Rural Ireland that they are going to work in their local town or village, see the reply you get. Young people want to live in cities for the social aspect and getting away from home. If I was 18 year old now, nothing would change that for me.

As I'll be working from home for the foreseeable I was looking at giving up my Dublin-based apartment for a medium sized town in the West Of Ireland. I'm single, I'm 35 and I'd be near my family. The issues I identified were, and they might sound minor:

-Opening the just-eat app on my phone showed me 0 restaurants delivering. In Dublin, its 60-70
-I've been getting groceries delivered since long before Covid. The only supermarket in that town doing delivery is Supervalu. In Dublin, I can get groceries delivered from Tesco, Dunnes and Lidl.
-In Dublin, a huge amount of restaurants, the town a handful
-less of an issue currently, but the nearest cinema would be Galway city.

While I'm still relatively young, the big city still has too many attractions, so I have my doubts if young people will be embracing the rural town in huge numbers.

Sunny Disposition

BronsonTB wrote: »

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

Why are they against it? Presume they own the office building?

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

Why would revenue get involved in expenses?

Because they're the people who decide whether they are legitimate expenses that can be paid tax free or not.

ineedeuro

Deleted User wrote: »

As I'll be working from home for the foreseeable I was looking at giving up my Dublin-based apartment for a medium sized town in the West Of Ireland. I'm single, I'm 35 and I'd be near my family. The issues I identified were, and they might sound minor:

-Opening the just-eat app on my phone showed me 0 restaurants delivering. In Dublin, its 60-70
-I've been getting groceries delivered since long before Covid. The only supermarket in that town doing delivery is Supervalu. In Dublin, I can get groceries delivered from Tesco, Dunnes and Lidl.
-In Dublin, a huge amount of restaurants, the town a handful
-less of an issue currently, but the nearest cinema would be Galway city.

While I'm still relatively young, the big city still has too many attractions, so I have my doubts if young people will be embracing the rural town in huge numbers.

Young people won't.
The problem is young people can't afford to move into city centres because of a backlog of workers. WFH will allow the gradual transition of people out of city centres and suburbs to free up space for the people coming in.

You will also find the options are limited in town/villages because of no demand. If you have people moving in then you will find demand will increase and people will meet that demand.

AndrewJRenko

krissovo wrote: »

Why would I care? I work for a MNC I am sure they have done their homework.

You could find yourself facing a substantial tax bill including interest and penalties in the future.

TheIrishGrover

Prior to C-19 I worked from home 2 days a week anyway and could basically ring in and say I'd be WFH on a particular day if required.
Post C-19 I can see our office going to maybe 1 day a week in office which would be fine. More for the social aspect than anything else really. My manager is in the US and my work involves teams globally so, functionally, there is no difference between working in office or not.

We did move into new office about 9 months beforehand and I'm assuming the company got a 5 or 10 year lease on the building so they WILL want it used but there was always an element of hot-desking that will now be embraced fully (Everyone had their own mouse/keyboard which they kept in locker and connected to dock/laptop anyway)

So yeah, I want about 1 day a week in office. If only to meet people and go for a drink after.

BronsonTB

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Why are they against it? Presume they own the office building?

Yes, boss bought the building years ago.
He likes to see people in front of him.
He really has no time for the WFH even tough we are well set up for it
(Ip phones system, zoom meetings etc)


Small company too so he can just do as he wants rather than what might work best overall.


Hopefully other companies will offer WFH options after covid.

If people leave then it might change the stern against stance.

BronsonTB

BronsonTB wrote: »

Yes, boss bought the building years ago.
He likes to see people in front of him.
He really has no time for the WFH even tough we are well set up for it
(Ip phones system, zoom meetings etc)


Small company too so he can just do as he wants rather than what might work best overall.


Hopefully other companies will offer WFH options after covid.

If people leave then it might change the stern against stance.

If he starts losing valuable employees he won't be long changing his outlook.

ineedeuro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You could find yourself facing a substantial tax bill including interest and penalties in the future.

I doubt that seeing as my company has done it for years.
But I am no expert on expenses/taxs like you.

Sunny Disposition

BronsonTB wrote: »

Yes, boss bought the building years ago.
He likes to see people in front of him.
He really has no time for the WFH even tough we are well set up for it
(Ip phones system, zoom meetings etc)


Small company too so he can just do as he wants rather than what might work best overall.


Hopefully other companies will offer WFH options after covid.

If people leave then it might change the stern against stance.

It is probably very frustrating to have bought a building and then find you didn't need to do so or at least could have spent less on a smaller one, to be fair.

This is the kind of mistake some people could make though, just try and persist with what you've always done regardless.

BronsonTB

BronsonTB wrote: »

Yes, boss bought the building years ago.
He likes to see people in front of him.
He really has no time for the WFH even tough we are well set up for it
(Ip phones system, zoom meetings etc)


Small company too so he can just do as he wants rather than what might work best overall.


Hopefully other companies will offer WFH options after covid.

If people leave then it might change the stern against stance.

He'll change his tune very quickly when half his staff leave.

AndrewJRenko

ineedeuro wrote: »

I doubt that seeing as my company has done it for years.
But I am no expert on expenses/taxs like you.

Has done what for years - paid expenses for staff going to their main office?

ineedeuro

BronsonTB wrote: »

Yes, boss bought the building years ago.
He likes to see people in front of him.
He really has no time for the WFH even tough we are well set up for it
(Ip phones system, zoom meetings etc)


Small company too so he can just do as he wants rather than what might work best overall.


Hopefully other companies will offer WFH options after covid.

If people leave then it might change the stern against stance.

And still a model for this moving forward. Depends on how he treats his staff etc. No point saying that everyone is going to leave because they can't work from home. The grass is not always greener on the other side needs to be remembered.

Also some jobs just dictate high staff turn over. I worked in a job once and it was literally like who would you be sitting beside next week. Most people came in and seen it as a stepping stone to move on, the company was aware and the employees as well. They build up a good name for themselves and literally the boss would be in contact with companies making them aware XYZ was good and they would come in and hire. They would then replace.

markpb

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll change his tune very quickly when half his staff leave.

Anyone who believes that there will be a mass exodus of staff from companies without WFH is fooling themselves. People gripe about things in their workplaces all the time but don't end up leaving because of them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps those negatives also exist in other companies in the same industry or there aren't any jobs in the same industry or role. People griped about Ryanair's working conditions for years and yet they're still around, doing the same thing (office and cabin staff alike). There are also companies who have a bunch of employees that are easily replaced so they won't care if employees leave. Not every employee is invaluable.

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

As I'll be working from home for the foreseeable I was looking at giving up my Dublin-based apartment for a medium sized town in the West Of Ireland. I'm single, I'm 35 and I'd be near my family. The issues I identified were, and they might sound minor:

-Opening the just-eat app on my phone showed me 0 restaurants delivering. In Dublin, its 60-70
-I've been getting groceries delivered since long before Covid. The only supermarket in that town doing delivery is Supervalu. In Dublin, I can get groceries delivered from Tesco, Dunnes and Lidl.
-In Dublin, a huge amount of restaurants, the town a handful
-less of an issue currently, but the nearest cinema would be Galway city.

While I'm still relatively young, the big city still has too many attractions, so I have my doubts if young people will be embracing the rural town in huge numbers.

Its a chicken and egg situation, as if lots of young people moved to towns, then you would get restaurants, cinemas etc opening up, but people don't want to move as those thing aren't there.

PhilOssophy

markpb wrote: »

Anyone who believes that there will be a mass exodus of staff from companies without WFH is fooling themselves. People gripe about things in their workplaces all the time but don't end up leaving because of them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps those negatives also exist in other companies in the same industry or there aren't any jobs in the same industry or role. People griped about Ryanair's working conditions for years and yet they're still around, doing the same thing (office and cabin staff alike). There are also companies who have a bunch of employees that are easily replaced so they won't care if employees leave. Not every employee is invaluable.

I don't think there will be a mass exodus, but think about it - lets say you are a company looking to recruit really good people. You are up against companies who are offering WFH at least as an option - which would 95% of people pick?

The example of Ryanair is not a great one - they aren't in an industry where targeting top talent is a priority. They are in an industry where everybody is dispensable and replaceable and plenty of their employees know this I am sure. There is a world of difference between this and the need of companies to attract the top people.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

Anyone who believes that there will be a mass exodus of staff from companies without WFH is fooling themselves. People gripe about things in their workplaces all the time but don't end up leaving because of them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps those negatives also exist in other companies in the same industry or there aren't any jobs in the same industry or role. People griped about Ryanair's working conditions for years and yet they're still around, doing the same thing (office and cabin staff alike). There are also companies who have a bunch of employees that are easily replaced so they won't care if employees leave. Not every employee is invaluable.

I can only speak for myself, but if my employer insisted on back to the office 5 days a week I wouldn't be griping, I'd be resigning.

ineedeuro

markpb wrote: »

Anyone who believes that there will be a mass exodus of staff from companies without WFH is fooling themselves. People gripe about things in their workplaces all the time but don't end up leaving because of them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps those negatives also exist in other companies in the same industry or there aren't any jobs in the same industry or role. People griped about Ryanair's working conditions for years and yet they're still around, doing the same thing (office and cabin staff alike). There are also companies who have a bunch of employees that are easily replaced so they won't care if employees leave. Not every employee is invaluable.

Ryanair is exactly as i described above. People work for Ryanair in the hope a BA or Aerlingus etc will pick them up once they have the experience.
Nothing wrong by the way about Ryanairs working conditions. They just have a few rules which other airlines don't(like buying uniforms)

The problem you will find is not the majority, but the minority. The minority will be the good people. The ones that keep the office running. That are the best people he has. They are the ones who will leave.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Renting an office in this area would cost me €600pcm or more, which I cannot afford.

How should I "adjust" to make WFH viable?

Where have you been looking that costs €600 per month? You've posted you live in Galway, here are just some examples where it costs much less then that.

Galway:

Bank of Ireland cowork space – free.

Galway Technology Centre – €165pm.

Portershed – €30 per day, €220pm.

Superpixel Labs – monthly €250.

(https://www.thinkbusiness.ie/articles/coworking-spaces-in-ireland/)

BronsonTB

BronsonTB wrote: »

My Employer is completely against WFH once government guidelines finish.
Currently only allowing it as it's recommended by government.
As soon as that's lifted, it's everybody back with no allowance to ever WFH again.

Shame as it would be great to have a mixed balance. Hopefully more employers will take that on board when this is over & have more opportunities to change jobs to a better work/life balance.

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

Deleted User

It'll all work out ok if folk accept that their particular job on their current employer may not turn out to be be what they want post pandemic.

I expect quite a few people will change jobs/companies to end up in their desired work situation.

Deleted User wrote: »

They may not have much choice but to rethink their policy on WFH when the Government brings in the planned legislation granting employees a statutory right to request remote working.

They won't be able to deny such requests so easily, without real justification.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-laws-will-give-employees-in-the-state-the-option-to-permanently-work-from-home-1.4458770

I imagine companies will be quite entitled to require their staff to be in the office for a proportion of their working week or month....

Young_gunner

Young_gunner wrote: »

This “strong belief” of middle managers is entirely without foundation!

The same middle managers who pushed for a culture of “presentism” in the past- outdated dinosaurs the lot of them

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

I imagine companies will be quite entitled to require their staff to be in the office for a proportion of their working week or month....

What do you base that on? There was no suggestion of that in the article.

ineedeuro

I very much doubt the Irish government is going to step in and tell MNC that they have to allow all staff to work from home. That would be crazy and could risk companies setting up offices here or even some leaving.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you base that on? There was no suggestion of that in the article.

I said "I imagine".
Clearly that suggests it is my opinion......... And a government press release suggests so also

It's almost reasonable to expect that 100% wfh might not be possible for lots and lots of roles.......

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/6b64a-tanaiste-signs-code-of-practice-on-right-to-disconnect/#:~:text=Currently%20in%20Ireland%2C%20all%20employees,facilitated%20as%20far%20as%20possible.

Not all work lends itself easily to remote working, for example where a worker needs to be physically present on site to do a task, interact with others, or use location-specific specialised machinery or equipment. In cases where remote work is suitable, a hybrid or blended model with a combination of remote work and onsite work may be the preferred arrangement. Some organisations may prefer a model where employees are required to come onsite only a few days a week or month. Some companies will need a core of ‘anchor’ people, who will be in the office or on site most days because they need to be. The new law will look at how all of these possibilities can be facilitated.

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

I very much doubt the Irish government is going to step in and tell MNC that they have to allow all staff to work from home. That would be crazy and could risk companies setting up offices here or even some leaving.

Thats not the purpose of the proposed legislation.

The Irish government is not going to step in and tell MNCs that they have to allow all staff to work from home - but if an employee makes a formal request for a WFH option, they've going to have to provide a very good reason for denying the request.

Yellow_Fern

There is no free lunches. Working from home has advantages but it is highly likely it changes how workers network. I would envisage that in the long term it results in less promotion and training opportunities.