Remote working - the future?

ReturnOfThe

Fantastic to see in a poll of 300+ , only 19 people see themselves returning full-time.
Personally, I would find it mentally draining to go back to a 90 min each way commute to do a job which I was able to do in exactly the same way from a home environment. I can only hope that my presence in the office going forward is a meaningful and necessary one now. I feel that anything less would create a type of cognitive dissonance within me which could only lead to worse stress !

On the flip side, I can see the disadvantages of a workforce being fully remote. Primarily a sociological one and I can understand that for newer and primarily younger members of staff they will be at a form of disadvantage. Career progression as we all know is not down to just hard work but sometimes chance encounters in the work place or after work engagements.

I think we are witnessing an anthropological evolution and I think that anyone who denies it has obviously something to lose because of it much like the people on the other side of the fence !

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, we'll have to disagree on that.

I've been commuting in this city for nearly 40 years, (including my secondary school years) some of it on public transport and some of it by car, and I'd never allow less time than that, and definitely not in the mornings.

Just a FYI, you're disagreeing with the "European Environment Agency (EEA)" https://www.eea.europa.eu/ who carried out the research across Europe.

Also different people take different times to do the same journey, all things being the same. Some people just take longer than others.

I certainly have had 90~120 mins commutes across Dublin at times, some times for months. But I wouldn't find that viable (for me) long term. I've no patience for it. I've refused many things because I thought the commute was soul destroying.

ineedeuro

Antares35 wrote: »

Same, especially when the journey has two legs and if one goes àrse up you miss the other. I often commuted well over an hour within Dublin.

Good luck if someone crash’s, at that stage it’s time to pull out the pillow and have a nap

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Just a FYI, you're disagreeing with the "European Environment Agency (EEA)" https://www.eea.europa.eu/ who carried out the research across Europe.

Also different people take different times to do the same journey, all things being the same. Some people just take longer than others.

I certainly have had 90~120 mins commutes across Dublin at times, some times for months. But I wouldn't find that viable (for me) long term. I've no patience for it. I've refused many things because I thought the commute was soul destroying.

With all due respect, I couldn't give a :P who I'm disagreeing with from the EEA. I was posting from my own real life experience of living and commuting in Dublin.

I don't know how it got turned into a "Dublin only" issue but its worth mentioning that not everyone who works in Dublin, commutes from within its borders. Of the top of my head, I can think of staff commuting into our building everyday from the far flung corners of Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Cavan daily. Some of their commutes are truly killer.

As a civil servant, moving location isn't that easy unless you are prepared to leave the CS, and I was in a position where others depended on me and job security had to be my first priority so I had to put my head down and get on with it. Needs must. Such is life.

Antares35

ineedeuro wrote: »

Good luck if someone crash’s, at that stage it’s time to pull out the pillow and have a nap

Lost count of the number of times the Luas just dumped everyone off at black horse and the buses would all go past full as a hundred people tried to get a bus/ taxi into town. I missed a really important meeting one day, that I'd allowed plenty of time for, and that was when I made the decision that it was easier to just finance running a car and drive to work instead.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With all due respect, I couldn't give a :P who I'm disagreeing with from the EEA. I was posting from my own real life experience of living and commuting in Dublin.

I don't know how it got turned into a "Dublin only" issue but its worth mentioning that not everyone who works in Dublin, commutes from within its borders. Of the top of my head, I can think of staff commuting into our building everyday from the far flung corners of Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Cavan daily. Some of their commutes are truly killer.

As a civil servant, moving location isn't that easy unless you are prepared to leave the CS, and I was in a position where others depended on me and job security had to be my first priority so I had to put my head down and get on with it. Needs must. Such is life.

Do CS not do transfers anymore? I remember I used to see them advertised in the union newsletter, like a lonely hearts column

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

Do CS not do transfers anymore? I remember I used to see them advertised in the union newsletter, like a lonely hearts column

Its complicated - or was. I put my name on what was the Central Transfer List for any department with a local office in the area where I lived when I found out I was pregnant. My daughter will be 25 this year and I've never received a single offer of transfer!

A lot of it depended on your parent department. I haven't bothered looking at mobility since it was changed.

(eta) those head-to-head transfers in the Union magazine where risky, as you could lose your service by taking one. My area rarely came up anyway, and when it did, it was usually gone by the time we got the magazine.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its complicated - or was. I put my name on what was the Central Transfer List for any department with a local office in the area where I lived when I found out I was pregnant. My daughter will be 25 this year and I've never received a single offer of transfer!

A lot of it depended on your parent department. I haven't bothered looking at mobility since it was changed.

Oh god, that's awful!

dodzy

Young_gunner wrote: »

Hello everybody

Just wondering what everyone's employer is doing now in relation to future working arrangements (assuming you can wfh).

the Whitaker poll from NUI Galway showed almost one third of all time want to work remotely 100% of the time.

Personally, having wfh'd since March 2020, I have seen the huge benefits of no stressful commutes - more productive, more time with family, just happier!
That said, I am a home owner with a small office space (but does the trick) and have reliable broadband.

I am not sure I can ever see myself commuting again.

What are people's general thoughts on this? I believe many offices may have pressure from Senior Execs to get people back in the office.

My tuppence worth - pre covid - AIB banking phone support was minutes to get through , now it’s impossible. VIRGIN media - same. Vodafone - same. Just examples. Service had plummeted in many areas in my opinion and particularly in phone support, there is no way a service level comparable to pre-covid could be maintained with people WFH. Now whether or not those at the helm of these organizations actually give a toss about effective CS is another matter entirely.

dodzy

dodzy wrote: »

My tuppence worth - pre covid - AIB banking phone support was minutes to get through , now it’s impossible. VIRGIN media - same. Vodafone - same. Just examples. Service had plummeted in many areas in my opinion and particularly in phone support, there is no way a service level comparable to pre-covid could be maintained with people WFH. Now whether or not those at the helm of these organizations actually give a toss about effective CS is another matter entirely.

To be honest I've never found phone support to be worth it even pre-covid. Was always less stressful to just email

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Surely you'd eventually to learn to choose work or study opportunities that are closer to home?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest I've never found phone support to be worth it even pre-covid. Was always less stressful to just email

I think it depends entirely who you get. VM was always rubbish. AIB great. BOI rubbish. VM was almost impossible to get in the first place.

givyjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes thats your opinion. Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. For 2 years I had a 90 minute commute one way. Living in one part of Dublin and working in another part.

Not sure why this is so hard for people to believe. Our transport system makes it bizarrely hard to get form relatively close parts of the city, to other relatively close parts. When i first started working in Sandyford, commuting from D12 via public transport, it was a nightmare. Bus and Luas taking around 90 mins door to door for a journey that would later take me 20-30 mins by car. I was fit for bed by the time I got to work.

Flinty997

givyjoe wrote: »

Not sure why this is so hard for people to believe. Our transport system makes it bizarrely hard to get form relatively close parts of the city, to other relatively close parts. When i first started working in Sandyford, commuting from D12 via public transport, it was a nightmare. Bus and Luas taking around 90 mins door to door for a journey that would later take me 20-30 mins by car. I was fit for bed by the time I got to work.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to believe how averages work or that the stats are from a pan European study.

Also your solution was to buy a car. As was mine.

ineedeuro

dodzy wrote: »

My tuppence worth - pre covid - AIB banking phone support was minutes to get through , now it’s impossible. VIRGIN media - same. Vodafone - same. Just examples. Service had plummeted in many areas in my opinion and particularly in phone support, there is no way a service level comparable to pre-covid could be maintained with people WFH. Now whether or not those at the helm of these organizations actually give a toss about effective CS is another matter entirely.

How many of those services are based in Ireland?

givyjoe

Flinty997 wrote: »

I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to believe how averages work or that the stats are from a pan European study.

Also your solution was to buy a car. As was mine.

Jesus wept, I should immediately rock out and buy a car, straight out of college with no license? Your also assuming parking was available, which it often wasn't. What has an average (of a Pan European study) got to do with individuals? Or specific personal examples that I and others were providing. Personal circumstance mean not everyone is flexible to move home or job, or always work within a reasonable commutable distance. What on earth has that study go to do my personal circumstances at the time, or those of others now? Really shouldn't need to be explained. You should pay closer attention to the posts/examples being provided, I clearly stated "when i first..".

More people should commute by bike, been doing it years (pandemic aside) and best thing I ever bought. Bike has paid for itself about 5 times over in saved fuel/transport tickets.



Answering the question in the OP - my employer is expecting us back in the office once they open. We can apply to permanently WFH if we want so that option exists, personally I am not going to take it straight away and will go back to the office for a while at least. Probably do a day or two at home.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Jesus wept, I should immediately rock out and buy a car, straight out of college with no license? Your also assuming parking was available, which it often wasn't. What has an average (of a Pan European study) got to do with individuals? Or specific personal examples that I and others were providing. Personal circumstance mean not everyone is flexible to move home or job, or always work within a reasonable commutable distance. What on earth has that study go to do my personal circumstances at the time, or those of others now? Really shouldn't need to be explained. You should pay closer attention to the posts/examples being provided, I clearly stated "when i first..".

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him change his opinion.

There are a few people on this thread whose opinions are not for changing. Some perfect examples:

"Get a job nearer your home"
"Just buy a car!"
"Then don't have kids"

All reasonable, helpful suggestions, just not based in the realities of most people.

Google extending the Treasury building to accommodate another 600 staff.

Offices going nowhere.

dkav9

Google also have 3 (I think) separate office buildings with umpteen facilities for staff, solely for the purpose of keeping their staff in as long as possible

The actions of one employer does not signal that everybody will be back.

Layla Full Seaport

Layla Full Seaport wrote: »

Google extending the Treasury building to accommodate another 600 staff.

Offices going nowhere.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/09/google-abandons-dublin-office-with-space-for-2000-staff.html

Offices going... somewhere?

What an absurd argument. LOL.

Sunny Disposition

Layla Full Seaport wrote: »

Google extending the Treasury building to accommodate another 600 staff.

Offices going nowhere.

Google would be so profitable that the cost of buying or leasing property isn't as important to them. I don't think they'd be a good barometer really.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Google would be so profitable that the cost of buying or leasing property isn't as important to them. I don't think they'd be a good barometer really.

No chance, you will have people hired by google and are paid a bonus based on costs etc. It doesn't matter how many billion google are making they are just interested in their section and driving the best deal so they get a large bonus.

If google was run like that they would be bankrupt in a few years as people spent money for no reason all over the place

Sunny Disposition

ineedeuro wrote: »

No chance, you will have people hired by google and are paid a bonus based on costs etc. It doesn't matter how many billion google are making they are just interested in their section and driving the best deal so they get a large bonus.

If google was run like that they would be bankrupt in a few years as people spent money for no reason all over the place

I don't fully agree with you, obviously it does have to be run well. But not downsizing office space immediately isn't going to help their business in the way it is helping mine. Smaller businesses might rather have some workers in offices, but the cost saving is too good to pass up. I don't think it's the same for Google who have to stay at the cutting edge of innovation and do have the ability afford to pay for property if they feel it can help that.

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

"Offices going nowhere."

Fact.

PhilOssophy

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

markpb

Deleted User wrote: »

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

Google bought the Treasury Building over a year ago. NTMA were there before, they moved to the new Dublin Landings building.

dkav9

dkav9 wrote: »

Google also have 3 (I think) separate office buildings with umpteen facilities for staff, solely for the purpose of keeping their staff in as long as possible

The actions of one employer does not signal that everybody will be back.

If you've had any experience with Google, and I mean the culture not the website, you would know they are not exactly a rallying call for WFH. My ex-girlfriend worked for them and it was a wonder she got any work done with all the events they held that werent exactly compulsory but you were under pressure to attend.

Weekly movie nights, lunchtime ping pong tournaments. Google want people in the office.

Im going to bow out of this thread now. There are a couple of posters taking things personally that the majority do not want to go back to the office. Its heartening to know that out of a poll of 300+ people only 16 want to return to a 5 day week in the office.

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

I think the winning employer is the one who can reduce their office needs and therefore lower their costs. If they can achieve this while maintaining productivity then it's a no brainer, you have to reduce office use. Otherwise you are throwing money away.


I look forward to someone not reading my post properly and responding with a straw man argument.

Google is a bad example as their entire system of work is built around ensuring staff remain in the office for as many hours as possible

Its the same poor example as the WeWork CEO who said the office is better......what do you expect a CEO of an office rental company to say

ineedeuro

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

Seemingly very soon the city centres are going to be a waste land of empty office, no shops and no restaurants. Well according to this thread anyway. Personally I have a different opinion

ineedeuro

ineedeuro wrote: »

Seemingly very soon the city centres are going to be a waste land of empty office, no shops and no restaurants. Well according to this thread anyway. Personally I have a different opinion

A few people seem to be impervious to the word "hybrid".

Very black and white in their thinking. I certainly wouldn't hire them.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Google is a bad example as their entire system of work is built around ensuring staff remain in the office for as many hours as possible

Its the same poor example as the WeWork CEO who said the office is better......what do you expect a CEO of an office rental company to say

Was it Google who offered to pay for their female employees to freeze their eggs?!

Or did I imagine that...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it Google who offered to pay for their female employees to freeze their eggs?!

Or did I imagine that...

It was reported. Not sure how true it is

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him change his opinion.

There are a few people on this thread whose opinions are not for changing. Some perfect examples:

"Get a job nearer your home"
"Just buy a car!"
....

All reasonable, helpful suggestions, just not based in the realities of most people.

The irony is those things are about making changes.

You're arguing about not changing.

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've had any experience with Google, and I mean the culture not the website, you would know they are not exactly a rallying call for WFH. My ex-girlfriend worked for them and it was a wonder she got any work done with all the events they held that werent exactly compulsory but you were under pressure to attend.

Weekly movie nights, lunchtime ping pong tournaments. Google want people in the office.

Im going to bow out of this thread now. There are a couple of posters taking things personally that the majority do not want to go back to the office. Its heartening to know that out of a poll of 300+ people only 16 want to return to a 5 day week in the office.

Google at this point are a parody of themselves.

Flinty997

givyjoe wrote: »

Jesus wept, I should immediately rock out and buy a car, straight out of college with no license? Your also assuming parking was available, which it often wasn't. What has an average (of a Pan European study) got to do with individuals? Or specific personal examples that I and others were providing. Personal circumstance mean not everyone is flexible to move home or job, or always work within a reasonable commutable distance. What on earth has that study go to do my personal circumstances at the time, or those of others now? Really shouldn't need to be explained. You should pay closer attention to the posts/examples being provided, I clearly stated "when i first..".

Jesus wept indeed, and yes it really shouldn't need to be explained, if you also paid closer attention to what others posted.

You said you eventually bought a car, I just agreed with you. I dunno that means I'm suggesting everyone buys a car. 1+1=42....

Just because people decide they want longer commutes over other choices, doesn't mean those other choices don't exist. People seem to be upset that a official study, indicates that long commutes are the minority. So there other choices. Even if you choose not to take them.

Flinty997

Layla Full Seaport wrote: »

More people should commute by bike, been doing it years (pandemic aside) and best thing I ever bought. Bike has paid for itself about 5 times over in saved fuel/transport tickets....

I agree cycling is a great option if it works for you.

But if you think people are entrenched in their ideas about WFH, that it will never catch on etc. Try get them cycling. its like asking them to climb Everest.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

The irony is those things are about making changes.

You're arguing about not changing.

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

I think you're referring to myself here.

Correction - I have commuted back and forth to and from various locations around Dublin for approx 40 years (give or take).

I didn't always commute the exact same way. Dependant on the journey involved at times I used public transport, and at others my own private transport. I've used buses, trains, the Dart, and my own car.

I currently use my own transport because public transport would involve at least one change, and a good walk at either end of my commute, and total travel time would probably be a lot longer then 90 minutes.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...
I didn't always commute the exact same way. ....

If you've changed then I can't possibly have been referring to you. But no it was just a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

Flinty997

We've all been there painted into a corner by circumstance.

But it's human nature to be reluctant to change from the known to the unknown. Remote working is like that. It's obviously not going to suit everyone, and not everyone all of the time. But it obviously does work for some people.

People take things so personally.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...

I didn't always commute the exact same way. Dependant on the journey involved at times I used public transport, and at others my own private transport. I've used buses, trains, the Dart, and my own car.

I currently use my own transport because public transport would involve at least one change, and a good walk at either end of my commute, and total travel time would probably be a lot longer then 90 minutes.

Journey times are often counter intuitive. Often you have to test different routes to find out which works best. Routes can also degrade or get better over time.

Remote working can be the same. What works on one project, team or company won't work somewhere else with different people or a different team. Such is life.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

If you've changed then I can't possibly have been referring to you. But no it was just a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

Flinty997 wrote: »

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

Rightttt.... because so many other posters have mentioned they've been commuting for 40 years, but .... whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rightttt.... because so many other posters have mentioned they've been commuting for 40 years, but .... whatever you say. :rolleyes:

.. You just said you didn't...but whatever...

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

.. You just said you didn't...but whatever...

Put down the shovel.

Flinty997

Young_gunner wrote: »

....
What are people's general thoughts on this? I believe many offices may have pressure from Senior Execs to get people back in the office...

Hard to know. Won't really know until the office opens up again. Until then it's all talk.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Put down the shovel.

How do you confuse a builder, give them 3 shovels and ask him to take his pick.

So much for remote working.

Mrs OBumble

I stated that Bank of Ireland Workbench is closed - and that when it was open, it was not without strings.

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually its the exact opposite of that. As stated on the website "There’s no need to contact anyone before using the space – you’re encouraged to drop in, find a desk, open up your laptop and get to work" and thats it

....

Anyway Mrsb, here is the hub map, have a look, theres 11 locations in Galway, I look forward to hearing whats wrong with each of them

Here is a photo of the building in Eyre Square where BoI workbench was, taken at lunchtime today.




There is no BOI branding on the building, the doors are closed and the interior is dark. It's been like this for a long time.

You can see a picture of how it was, when it was the workbench, here.

With little fanfare BOI announced ages ago that the Workbench was moving to Level 1 of their Mainguard Street. (This page has a map showing the new location). Access was restricted when Covid hit, and I believe has not been restored.

And you are naïve to think that BoI are doing that for any reason other than to sell their services to workbench users.

I'm not going to go through the list for you - but innovation hubs are set up and funded by the LEOs and similar to support ie "incubate" new and emerging businesses. They don't provide extra office space for established business, unless those businesses have a specific growth spurt which meets the innovation objectives. Their goal is to help new businesses succeed and move into spaces of their own, not to provide long-term office space for existing businesses. And - importantly - they provide hot desks without monitors. Just a desk, chair, power supply, wifi. Fine to work at for a while. Not ergonomic, not meant for long term, all-day work. If you doubt this, walk down William Street West and look in the windows of WestWorks.

The offices which could be rented by individual workers in Galway and fitted with ergonomic-friendly equipment that you could leave in place are the Pro-Cathedral building, the building in Flood Street where the Druid offices are, a few others above shops in Francis St etc and similar. Or there are serviced offices (a lot more expensive, but they provide the desk + wifi) - Level 1, Tara Rock Seven, Gray Office Park, Ross House, Plaza Office Suites, ServicedOffices in Oldenway, Glenrock in Ballybane). I looked long and hard at all the options: the trade off is location, security and price. Price was the kicker: A PAYE worker pays the full cost, and gets no tax relief. A company renting the space at least gets corporate tax relief. Unless I was I was prepared to be in the odd corners of industrial estates alone at night (I'm not), then it was at least 600 pcm when I priced things about 9 months ago.

Sunny Disposition

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the winning employer is the one who can reduce their office needs and therefore lower their costs. If they can achieve this while maintaining productivity then it's a no brainer, you have to reduce office use. Otherwise you are throwing money away.


I look forward to someone not reading my post properly and responding with a straw man argument.

This is 100% the case, getting rid of offices is brilliant when it can be done. What employees want is important of course, but not to the extent of paying for an office if it’s possible not to.

It was fantastic for me when it became clear wfh functioned, I was counting the weeks then until our lease ended. I’m not sure hybrid will be that widespread in the long term, because the companies that opt for it will be a bit less competitive.
I made 20 people redundant in 2012, and it was my worst time in business, would have been great to save a couple of jobs through going remote, but wasn’t possible then, never even crossed my mind tbh. Even if hybrid lasts a while, closing offices won’t really hurt employees and would be the first thing to be cut during any sticky period.
Some of our workers would like a hybrid week I know, but we can’t justify leasing an office to facilitate that.