Remote working - the future?

Young_gunner

Hello everybody

Just wondering what everyone's employer is doing now in relation to future working arrangements (assuming you can wfh).

the Whitaker poll from NUI Galway showed almost one third of all time want to work remotely 100% of the time.

Personally, having wfh'd since March 2020, I have seen the huge benefits of no stressful commutes - more productive, more time with family, just happier!
That said, I am a home owner with a small office space (but does the trick) and have reliable broadband.

I am not sure I can ever see myself commuting again.

What are people's general thoughts on this? I believe many offices may have pressure from Senior Execs to get people back in the office.

C3PO

I think most office workers will return to the office on some sort of hybrid model - 3 and 2 most likely. Some workers will be allowed to work remotely full time but my guess is that will be the minority

dashoonage

Mrs O Bumble......assemble!!!!!

Jim2007

C3PO wrote: »

I think most office workers will return to the office on some sort of hybrid model - 3 and 2 most likely. Some workers will be allowed to work remotely full time but my guess is that will be the minority

Hybrid models don't provide sufficient savings, they are just a transition stage.

fits

Remote working doesn’t work for younger people in house shares who need to learn from more senior people

That said I would be happy to work remotely three to four days a week. It suits me and my family well.

Young_gunner

I don't even see the logic of a forced hybrid model. I think anyone who is able to carry their role out competently at home, without any impact on productivity, should be allowed to continue to do so. that's perfectly fair!

timmyntc

Hybrids are probably intended for training purposes. Much easier to train new hires in person - also newer staff will work better in an office with others in general. Easier to ask for help or get demonstrations with small things.

It's the mid to senior staff who would benefit most and indeed want most to work from home.

C3PO

Jim2007 wrote: »

Hybrid models don't provide sufficient savings, they are just a transition stage.

I don’t agree - we will be implementing a hybrid model to facilitate employees rather than as a money saving initiative. However there is a strong belief that office attendance on a regular basis is also optimal for most roles. Thus we will be implementing a hybrid model.

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

I don't even see the logic of a forced hybrid model. I think anyone who is able to carry their role out competently at home, without any impact on productivity, should be allowed to continue to do so. that's perfectly fair!

Frankly I think that’s wishful thinking, my guess is that most companies will insist that people attend the office at least a couple of days a week.

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

Frankly I think that’s wishful thinking, my guess is that most companies will insist that people attend the office at least a couple of days a week.

but why insist when it is unnecessary? if productivity has decreased when working at home, then fine. but, in general, it hasn't.

what's the rationale for forcing people who would rather spend time working than commuting to commute?

Jim2007

C3PO wrote: »

Frankly I think that’s wishful thinking, my guess is that most companies will insist that people attend the office at least a couple of days a week.

Why, how will you justify the costs of bring people into the office for no good reason?


It will be gone in one of the first cost cutting exercises.

Young_gunner

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why, how will you justify the costs of bring people into the office for no good reason?


It will be gone in one of the first cost cutting exercises.

Exactly, how can you justify to employees that sitting in traffic for 2 hours a day is a good use of their time? you would have a very disgruntled workforce on your hands very soon.

C3PO

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why, how will you justify the costs of bring people into the office for no good reason?


It will be gone in one of the first cost cutting exercises.

Don’t shoot the messenger!
I am the Facilities Manager for a Financial Institution and the senior and middle managers strongly believe that people working permanently remotely has serious issues for the company. But they also understand that staff members appreciate the choice and therefore we will be introducing a hybrid model. Over the last couple of weeks there have been many similar announcements from other much bigger companies than ours - JP Morgan and Google to name just two.
In terms of costs, currently we don’t envisage immediately cutting space but a “hot-desk” solution is possible eventually!

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

Don’t shoot the messenger!
I am the Facilities Manager for a Financial Institution and the senior and middle managers strongly believe that people working permanently remotely has serious issues for the company. But they also understand that staff members appreciate the choice and therefore we will be introducing a hybrid model. Over the last couple of weeks there have been many similar announcements from other much bigger companies than ours - JP Morgan and Google to name just two.
In terms of costs, currently we don’t envisage immediately cutting space but a “hot-desk” solution is possible eventually!

This “strong belief” of middle managers is entirely without foundation!

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

This “strong belief” of middle managers is entirely without foundation!

Tell that to Google and JP Morgan!

Sonic the Shaghog

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why, how will you justify the costs of bring people into the office for no good reason?


It will be gone in one of the first cost cutting exercises.

How will you justify paying Irish wages for a role that has no good reason to be in an office therefore being cheaper to outsource to Eastern Europe if it can be now be seen to be done remotely?

SeaFields

I just want to go back into the office full time. The novelty has worn off and I find it hard to switch off when work is also home. I've a short commute tho and some colleagues have said a few days without their long commute would be very welcome

C3PO

SeaFields wrote: »

I just want to go back into the office full time. The novelty has worn off and I find it hard to switch off when work is also home. I've a short commute tho and some colleagues have said a few days without their long commute would be very welcome

We are having a similar reaction from many of our staff, particularly the younger ones who tend to live in house shares and apartments.

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

Tell that to Google and JP Morgan!

Their staff will tell them! Or they’ll move to Twitter / Salesforce!

Sonic the Shaghog

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

How will you justify paying Irish wages for a role that has no good reason to be in an office therefore being cheaper to outsource to Eastern Europe if it can be now be seen to be done remotely?

If your presence at a desk in an office is the only protecting your role, it was never safe in the first place

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

Their staff will tell them! Or they’ll move to Twitter / Salesforce!

I think you’re wrong - I believe that most people will want to work a hybrid model. This is certainly the result of an anonymous survey we ran this week. But time will tell I guess.

hello2020

Young_gunner wrote: »

This “strong belief” of middle managers is entirely without foundation!

Managers are afraid of losing their jobs in remote work environment as everyone can see they hardly produce anything but consume lots of project cost..
In office setup , managers feel superior but on Team's seniority feel is lost..

Antares35

Company confirmed yesterday that we will be able to choose between 0-5 days in office, subject to requirement to be physically present for e.g. meetings with externals etc. Delighted, because we'd been stalling our house hunting until we knew for sure what kind of commute/ model we'd be looking at. Fiance's company committed to a 60:40 hybrid a while ago.

For us, there have been so many benefits.

1. As soon as the office closed in March 2020, I was up about 500 a month on petrol and pet sitter savings alone.
2. Then there's the removal of the commute - pre covid I was sitting in traffic for the equivalent of 1.5 working days per week. This has improved my mood, energy levels and general output.
3. In terms of childcare, we can arrange this for core hours that we are unavailable, as opposed to having to bookend either end of our day with a run to and from the crèche with a tired and grumpy child (soon to be two) in the back of the car.
4. My productivity has increased because I have time and space to focus on my work and I'm not constantly interrupted by the office chatterbox who talks at me for hours on end. Interestingly, she is the one most interested in getting us all back in full time!
5. The general flexibility that WFH has meant for me - if I need to go for an appointment etc. I just go. Similarly, if I have a deadline for Monday I don't mind slicing off a few hours of my Sunday to get it over the line. Though I appreciate this requires a flexible boss and depends on the nature of the job, but for us it has worked very well both ways.

Edit to say I have some friends in the office that I miss dearly, and as soon as we are vaccinated and the baby arrives safe, I'll be meeting up with them again for lunch etc. This has probably been one of the few downsides for me, but in itself wouldn't be reason enough to go back.

Also find sometimes things take a little longer to chase, because you can't just ask someone to their face for a document, and there are some people who seem to be slower to provide stuff when it's requested on email. But overall not a big deal breaker for me.

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

I think you’re wrong - I believe that most people will want to work a hybrid model. This is certainly the result of an anonymous survey we ran this week. But time will tell I guess.

The study carried out by the Whitaker institute in NUI Galway showed 32% of staff want to work full time remotely - if anyone wants to be hybrid fire away but people who want to wfh shouldn’t be forced to o come back in

Young_gunner

Antares35 wrote: »

Company confirmed yesterday that we will be able to choose between 0-5 days in office, subject to requirement to be physically present for e.g. meetings with externals etc. Delighted, because we'd been stalling our house hunting until we knew for sure what kind of commute/ model we'd be looking at. Fiance's company committed to a 60:40 hybrid a while ago.

For us, there have been so many benefits.

1. As soon as the office closed in March 2020, I was up about 500 a month on petrol and pet sitter savings alone.
2. Then there's the removal of the commute - pre covid I was sitting in traffic for the equivalent of 1.5 working days per week. This has improved my mood, energy levels and general output.
3. In terms of childcare, we can arrange this for core hours that we are unavailable, as opposed to having to bookend either end of our day with a run to and from the crèche with a tired and grumpy child (soon to be two) in the back of the car.
4. My productivity has increased because I have time and space to focus on my work and I'm not constantly interrupted by the office chatterbox who talks at me for hours on end. Interestingly, she is the one most interested in getting us all back in full time!
5. The general flexibility that WFH has meant for me - if I need to go for an appointment etc. I just go. Similarly, if I have a deadline for Monday I don't mind slicing off a few hours of my Sunday to get it over the line. Though I appreciate this requires a flexible boss and depends on the nature of the job, but for us it has worked very well both ways.

1000% agree with all of this

C3PO

Young_gunner wrote: »

The study carried out by the Whitaker institute in NUI Galway showed 32% of staff want to work full time remotely - if anyone wants to be hybrid fire away but people who want to wfh shouldn’t be forced to o come back in

People will be free to choose for whom they work and vice versa!

Young_gunner

C3PO wrote: »

People will be free to choose for whom they work and vice versa!

Yes fair enough but still, nobody can say what the benefit of forcing staff to commute again is when there’s been no drop in productivity??

Young_gunner

Young_gunner wrote: »

Yes fair enough but still, nobody can say what the benefit of forcing staff to commute again is when there’s been no drop in productivity??

There is none, but there is a "belief" or "perception" that its better, especially among middle mgmt

Of course, some will trot out buzz words to justify a full-time return to the office like "collaboration & culture" but its been shown over the last year that collaboration can be done just as well online (its been done that way for nearly a decade for a lot of companies) and as for culture, I'll get mine at the local arts festival

caviardreams

Young_gunner wrote: »

Yes fair enough but still, nobody can say what the benefit of forcing staff to commute again is when there’s been no drop in productivity??

One individual's productivity can't be looked at in isolation - somebody WFH full time may result in less knowledge transfer and reduce productivity of other colleagues for example. It could have knock on effects in terms of culture and values and team spirit which may affect some colleagues more than others.

Also, how do you measure productivity when there is a significant relationship building component - meeting a client every month virtually may not build the same trust as face to face though in terms of contact time they may be recorded as the same, and productivity therefore measured as the same, but the impact may not be.

I really think 1-2 days on-site working brings benefits that some may not want to admit.

Only took one post for the buzz words to appear :pac::pac::pac:

Young_gunner

caviardreams wrote: »

One individual's productivity can't be looked at in isolation - somebody WFH full time may result in less knowledge transfer and reduce productivity of other colleagues for example. It could have knock on effects in terms of culture and values and team spirit which may affect some colleagues more than others.

Also, how do you measure productivity when there is a significant relationship building component - meeting a client every month virtually may not build the same trust as face to face though in terms of contact time they may be recorded as the same, and productivity therefore measured as the same, but the impact may not be.

I really think 1-2 days on-site working brings benefits that some may not want to admit.

all this is so spurious. relationships with work colleagues can be built perfectly fine online these days.

i'm far more concerned with building a relationship with my 1 year old daughter who i get to see every day now.

Work is work. and i'll work hard but i'm not gonna sit on a Dart for 2.5 hours a day for no reason.

caviardreams

Young_gunner wrote: »

all this is so spurious. relationships with work colleagues can be built perfectly fine online these days.

i'm far more concerned with building a relationship with my 1 year old daughter who i get to see every day now.

Work is work. and i'll work hard but i'm not gonna sit on a Dart for 2.5 hours a day for no reason.

Completely - you are more concerned with building a relationship with your daughter - of course, that makes 100% sense, but why should your employer care about that at the expense of their objectives e..g building strong, meaningful, personal relationships with customers?

Flexibility works both ways, give and take.

Young_gunner

caviardreams wrote: »

Completely - you are more concerned with building a relationship with your daughter - of course, that makes 100% sense, but why should your employer care about that at the expense of their objectives e..g building strong, meaningful, personal relationships with customers?

Flexibility works both ways, give and take.

But none of that is part of my job and, even if it was, that can and is done online.

Swindled

C3PO wrote: »

We are having a similar reaction from many of our staff, particularly the younger ones who tend to live in house shares and apartments.

That's who office's suit :

- young employees with no experience of office politics and bullshyte
- those with no decent home office/suitable home situation
- middle 'managers' who's ego's need the attention and to justify their existence/salary.
- and those who feed off the manipulation and political bullshyte that goes on in "offices".
- the lonely

Swindled

caviardreams wrote: »

One individual's productivity can't be looked at in isolation - somebody WFH full time may result in less knowledge transfer and reduce productivity of other colleagues for example. It could have knock on effects in terms of culture and values and team spirit which may affect some colleagues more than others.

Also, how do you measure productivity when there is a significant relationship building component - meeting a client every month virtually may not build the same trust as face to face though in terms of contact time they may be recorded as the same, and productivity therefore measured as the same, but the impact may not be.

I really think 1-2 days on-site working brings benefits that some may not want to admit.

Looks like you haven't woken up the fact that the day of that droning corporate rhetoric and bullshyte above is over. Now people in a teams calls can just simply turn you down low, and let you drone away in the background while they get their real work for the day done. Yet, you need them back in the office so you can corral them in a stuffy smelly meeting room to listen to your dung and justify your overpaid existence and time wasting, while they pretend to look interested, and so as to try not to dribble/fall asleep on their notepads, play buzzword bingo, by amusingly predicting and ticking off every silly cliché and meaningless corporate buzzard you use, wasting hours, while they patiently wait to get back to doing some real work.

The day of the office droning pointless wanna be middle manager dinosaur is over, catch up.

Dyr

Swindled wrote: »

- and those who feed off the manipulation and political bullshyte that goes on in "offices".

Surely you mean those play a vital role in coordinating efforts across teams
One of the things that made me laugh is that, as soon as the WFH became obvious the cohort of office polticians in our place went into overtime treating internal comms tools like they were on ****ing Linkedin to keep promoting themselves to all and sundry

Swindled

Bambi wrote: »

Surely you mean those play a vital role in coordinating efforts across teams
One of the things that made me laugh is that, as soon as the WFH became obvious the cohort of office polticians in our place went into overtime treating internal comms tools like they were on ****ing Linkedin to keep promoting themselves to all and sundry

WFH terrifies them, because they have no where to hide now, and have to start showing some actual work of their own.

Meanwhile actual business owners love WFH, massive cost savings, and getting to WFH more often as well.

Sunny Disposition

Looking the big picture rather than surveys taken at one moment in time then working from home his going to replace office work largely. The savings are just massive for companies, so their interests coincide with their employees very nicely. People might like an outing once or twice a month and companies might like workers to meet each other too, so they may go with small hubs, in easily accessible areas, but the vast majority of work will be remote.
I already got out of the Dublin property market, other people could probably safely hang on for a year or two, but it’s a mugs game to get into it now unless you’re looking for a v quick return. Don’t buy for your pension.
Across the world the implications are massive and it comes at a time when cities in many countries had become unaffordable, so its a good time for this change.
But there will be problems, urban blight will be back, like we had in the 80s. Cities will eventually become centres for heavy industries again but that could take a generation or more.

The_Honeybadger

What are peoples feelings on the remote hubs that are popping up everywhere? Three fairly good sized ones planned within a 20km radius of me, I’d be a bit sceptical that they’ll fill them tbh. Government pushing them like mad with grants so they obviously see them having a big role going forward. I can’t see myself using one but my office is relatively close by, if I had a long commute it may be a different story. Anybody here planning on working from one?

Swindled

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

What are peoples feelings on the remote hubs that are popping up everywhere? Three fairly good sized ones planned within a 20km radius of me, I’d be a bit sceptical that they’ll fill them tbh. Government pushing them like mad with grants so they obviously see them having a big role going forward. I can’t see myself using one but my office is relatively close by, if I had a long commute it may be a different story. Anybody here planning on working from one?

I'd see them as being great options for those who for whatever reason can't work from home, and/or have a long commute, and can't stand the now obsolete office nonsense that goes on. Great for businesses too, who now no longer have to provide and maintain offices for one or two meetings or in person get togethers a week.

Sunny Disposition

While it might be good news for some people in rural areas there will be problems too.
https://clarechampion.ie/locals-getting-squeezed-out-in-north-clare-property-boom/
Here property is getting too dear for locals, at a time when there is a huge level of unemployment. What’ll it be like if there is a post pandemic boom in the wider economy?
This is the beginning of the biggest change in population spread in living memory.

snotboogie

My work had a heavily subsidised nice canteen and free coffee, so I recon I'm actually down money. My commute was only 10 minutes so I'm hardly saving any time or petrol. I worked on a sound team and I miss the chats over lunch and meeting new people. I don't particularly benfit from less interruptions because when I needed to focus I used to put on my earphones and people would know not to bother me.

Work from home has been pretty boring for me.

fits

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

What are peoples feelings on the remote hubs that are popping up everywhere? Three fairly good sized ones planned within a 20km radius of me, I’d be a bit sceptical that they’ll fill them tbh. Government pushing them like mad with grants so they obviously see them having a big role going forward. I can’t see myself using one but my office is relatively close by, if I had a long commute it may be a different story. Anybody here planning on working from one?

I used one in 2016 when I lived in a different house. It was nice to get out of the house 2-3 days a week and have people to talk to at coffee breaks. I have a better home office setup now and live in a less remote location so not sure if need it now. For people without a dedicated home office they’re great.

I think it’s great but I do miss going in to the office for a bit of social interaction. I’d be quite happy to go 2 days a week and 3 at home, I think that’s the best balance.
As far as it being the future, I think so yes. I’ve just taken a new job and it’s fully remote with travel to office locations once a month or so.
The other 4 I interviewed for this last 6-8 weeks for all offered a hybrid model, mostly 2/3 days a month in office.

adocholiday

I am loving WFH, cutting out the commute has honestly been a complete life changer for me for so many reasons. I don't miss the office 'banter' or the politics, I can just do my job in peace. I'm more productive and I'm happier in my job with 100% WFH.

All that said I have zero hope for the long term with regard to WFH. There are already some companies who said that they'd be supporting WFH post pandemic backtracking now. Lots of places starting to drag people in for 2-3 days but it'll start creeping up. Oh we just need you 1 extra day per week, just until the project is finished. But when the project is over the expectation will be that you're there that extra day all the time. A competitor company might win a contract because they have people on the ground, or they're more flexible with sending people to client site - so the management will say we need to get everyone back. It might take a few months but I feel that many will eventually end up back 5 days per week in the office.

I also think there'll be a big political push to get people back to the cities. The wheels of the economy have to turn and you need people spending for that. Fuel, public transport, the morning coffee, lunch out, after work dinner/drinks, bit of clothes shopping the odd time. I've saved a fortune on all this in the last year.

Maybe I have an overly pessimistic view of it all, but I have a feeling that there are too many vested interests against WFH and the happiness/wellness of the employee is the very bottom of the list when it comes to these decisions.

Young_gunner

adocholiday wrote: »

I am loving WFH, cutting out the commute has honestly been a complete life changer for me for so many reasons. I don't miss the office 'banter' or the politics, I can just do my job in peace. I'm more productive and I'm happier in my job with 100% WFH.

All that said I have zero hope for the long term with regard to WFH. There are already some companies who said that they'd be supporting WFH post pandemic backtracking now. Lots of places starting to drag people in for 2-3 days but it'll start creeping up. Oh we just need you 1 extra day per week, just until the project is finished. But when the project is over the expectation will be that you're there that extra day all the time. A competitor company might win a contract because they have people on the ground, or they're more flexible with sending people to client site - so the management will say we need to get everyone back. It might take a few months but I feel that many will eventually end up back 5 days per week in the office.

I also think there'll be a big political push to get people back to the cities. The wheels of the economy have to turn and you need people spending for that. Fuel, public transport, the morning coffee, lunch out, after work dinner/drinks, bit of clothes shopping the odd time. I've saved a fortune on all this in the last year.

Maybe I have an overly pessimistic view of it all, but I have a feeling that there are too many vested interests against WFH and the happiness/wellness of the employee is the very bottom of the list when it comes to these decisions.

I really hope you are being overly pessimistic there and I do think there’s no putting the wfh genie back in the bottle. It’s up to us all to really ensure this opportunity isn’t lost

Sunny Disposition

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it’s great but I do miss going in to the office for a bit of social interaction. I’d be quite happy to go 2 days a week and 3 at home, I think that’s the best balance.
As far as it being the future, I think so yes. I’ve just taken a new job and it’s fully remote with travel to office locations once a month or so.
The other 4 I interviewed for this last 6-8 weeks for all offered a hybrid model, mostly 2/3 days a month in office.

The need for social interaction is going to bring more changes. Having the internet in the home has made people more reclusive, for example see the rise of following streamed TV series and the decline of pubs. But that could change now as office based social life evaporates. Sporting clubs, drama organisations, etc should become much more popular. Whisper it, but the busy midweek pub could make a return.

fits

If I am asked to go into office more than 2-3 days a week I’ll simply have to quit my job. No two ways about it.

lawred2

Young_gunner wrote: »

Hello everybody

Just wondering what everyone's employer is doing now in relation to future working arrangements (assuming you can wfh).

the Whitaker poll from NUI Galway showed almost one third of all time want to work remotely 100% of the time.

Personally, having wfh'd since March 2020, I have seen the huge benefits of no stressful commutes - more productive, more time with family, just happier!
That said, I am a home owner with a small office space (but does the trick) and have reliable broadband.

I am not sure I can ever see myself commuting again.

What are people's general thoughts on this? I believe many offices may have pressure from Senior Execs to get people back in the office.

I want a balance. Few days in the office would suit me.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

While it might be good news for some people in rural areas there will be problems too.
https://clarechampion.ie/locals-getting-squeezed-out-in-north-clare-property-boom/
Here property is getting too dear for locals, at a time when there is a huge level of unemployment. What’ll it be like if there is a post pandemic boom in the wider economy?
This is the beginning of the biggest change in population spread in living memory.

These towns and counties are dying, young people are moving out and going to cities. Remote working will regenerate a lot of villages and towns around the country.

How anyone would think this is bad I have no idea.

Del2005

Jim2007 wrote: »

Why, how will you justify the costs of bring people into the office for no good reason?


It will be gone in one of the first cost cutting exercises.

There's tax implications for companies if their staff are remotely working in different countries. So they'll make staff come in a few days to make sure that they are resident in the country where they are employed.