The Sub 4 Support Thread

ewc78 wrote: »

I tried one of the Wednesday Workouts on the meno plan today just to try it out. It's the one in Week 2 "Progression run"
Wednesday session: 2 miles easy warm up followed by 8 minutes steady (MP + 3-4%); 8 milnutes @ MP; 8 Minutes @ HMP; 8 Minutes Hard (approx 10kpace); 2 miles c/d at the end. The run should be all continuous. Try not to overestimate the 'steady', and MP sections or it will get very difficult at the end. For the last 8 minute sesction pretty much go as fast as you can while retaining a constant pace. It will likely come in and around your 10k pace.

First off I really enjoyed the run.
Reason I'm posting about it though is to get advice re the paces I did for each step to see if I'm doing it right in relation to what I should be doing for a sub 4hr.
These are the average paces I did.

3km Warm up : 6:15/km
8 min steady: 5:50/km
8 min MP: 5:30/km
8 min HMP : 5:10/km
8 min Hard: 4:35/km
3km Warm down: 6:00km

I did find it hard to keep a constant pace on each and sometimes had to slow down or speed up so the above are averages.

Good idea to try out a couple of sessions before deciding on a plan. I like the look of the progression run. I won't be doing meno but i like the idea of the variety as well. Well done

seanin4711 wrote: »

thats my friday after work session sorted!

I am trying to focus on neg split sessions .
first half of a typical friday afternoon sesh would be 16km steady but i will try to incorporate neg splits as in 8km easy and 2nd 8km mp.

Is it not very early to be running half your run at MP :eek: I'm not planning to start specific dcm training for another 9 weeks so excuse me if i'm freaking out a tiny bit

ewc78 wrote: »

I see DCM is selling our fast. How many here are doing it and have you decided on a plan?
I'm 99% sure I'll be using the meno plan, would be great if a few others are also.

I’m doing it and more than likely the grads plan.

ewc78 wrote: »

I see DCM is selling our fast. How many here are doing it and have you decided on a plan?
I'm 99% sure I'll be using the meno plan, would be great if a few others are also.

Signed up and have decided I'll definitely follow the meno plan.
Going to start my training 2 weeks early as I'll be away for 2 weeks in July and don't fancy the session runs in the heat. Will just do easy runs for those 2 weeks.

Hey Guys Great idea for a thread. I recently ran a 1:47 half, as dublin will be my first marathon i just want to enjoy it. So i plan to go out with the 4hr pacers and take it all in while hoping to stay with them. I'm going to follow the boards plan starting in june. So looking forward to seeing everyone's progress

Mileage is really only difficult when you don’t have the base. If you’ve been running 2,000 miles per year for a couple of years, the ramp up to 55 isn’t going to faze you. If you’ve been running much less, it could well break you. Choose the mileage version that you can comfortably sustain - whatever plan you follow.

Another thing about Advanced Marathoning - read the book and understand the principles and the paces. Much better than just borrowing the schedule and hope for the best. It’s not an easy plan, and I’d say only suitable with at least 2 or three decent marathon efforts under your belt. (the clue is in the title). It’s certainly advanced for a sub-4 attempt. Maybe too advanced?

thats the target for me across all 5 sessions combined per week.
low intensity high vol will make up 70% of that.(2 sessions)
20% moderate (2 sessions )and 10% speedplay (1 session).

nice and humid this eve around Loughrea.

Hope your training is going well and injury free.

DCM sold out btw!:o

Berlin the target for me (Dublin option would have been nice!)

22nd july.
Half 25€ and full marathon 35€ in Boston Scientific Ballybrit Galway for chosen charity ability west.
1 mile loops block marathon(not everyones cup of tea ,i know) using it as a training run -20miler and walk the last 6 miles.

So start it now!

These threads compare people's half marathon times and marathon times

On the half marathon time milestones for a 4hr marathon.

I paced the Dublin Marathon twice for the 4hr group (3:59:50 and 3:59:30) and trained a large group of ladies for the second one. The question often popped up. In fairness context is everything.

If the sub 4 attempt is your first marathon or you have brought the goal down from slower pervious marathons, then training miles at your marathon pace in the latter half of your long run is the key thing. You are putting the miles in general in training and have the capacity to belt out a half marathon in 1:40-1:50. That's all good. The problem is it does not come close to where your glycogen depletion will be after 3 hours. If your body is hurting after 90 mins of the half you only have to "suffer" for another 10-15 minutes and mentally this is not much when you are training for a marathon. With the effort biting at 3 hours in a 4 hours marathon that last hour is a very long time!

That's why it is crucial to practice marathon paces miles after you have been on your feet for 2hrs+
Your long runs for a 4hr marathon likely take you up to 19-20 miles or circa 3hrs. Being able to run your marathon pace for the second half of a 3 hour long run and finish feeling good would be a better indicator than a 1:45 half marathon in my opinion.

So, while that half marathon is a good indicator that your training is going well and a benchmark that you are on track. It has little bearing on what your marathon result is likely to be.

as shotgun says, context is everything.

The classic mistake novice runners make is that they only have one pace - they don't do faster intervals, and they don't do slow miles. Every run is just "go out and run". They don't really adapt to long runs, they just survive them. That makes them reasonably fit for a half marathon, but not ready for a marathon.

If you train properly, know how to pace yourself, get the miles in, you don't have to be much slower in the marathon than the half.

Just catching up on this thread and it's put the fear in me too. Haven't raced a HM in over a year so not sure what I'm capable of.
Just signed up for the DCM half after reading this:o

pac_man wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's wise to run with someone that is doing the even splits on a course like the Dublin Marathon as the course is quite undulating. I like to dictate my own pace rather than on someone else watch and I like a bit of breathing space. I could only image you'd be nearly
tripping over people in the first half a 4 hour marathon pace group.

On the other hand, you might be one of these runners that thrives in running with a big group. There's a sense of camaraderie that you're running with like minded people with the same objective of wanting to run
a marathon in under 4 hours. You don't have to worry about splits or looking at the watch as the pacer is doing it. You'll also have pacers giving all the positive vibes which are helpful in the later stages of the marathon.

You'll get conflicting views on this but ultimately it's down to personal preference.

With my 4 hour pacer hat on you can have both. The 4hr pace group for DCM is huge. Its great fun but very busy and some did trip over. The balloons we had were huge and hard to miss. I don't understand the need to glue yourself to a pacer. Hanging back 50m may seem so far but its only 10secoinds away and you may have much more room. Just keep the pacer in sight. Much easier than running ahead and keep looking back to ensure you are not losing them. As the group thins out after 15miles you could reel in a few metres every mile, pass the pacers in the last mile leaving them behind knowing you've got it!