Norwegian Air International discussion

zone 1 · 05-07-2018 6:38pm

well thats that for TA from cork ....maybe if runway gets upgrade in 20 or so years it might be back.

05-07-2018 9:49pm

Airways mag article has been withdrawn and author apologised on twitter for making the unfounded leap from info(facts) to last paragraph supposition about it being shutdown.

nkfox · 08-07-2018 10:54pm

I am looking to purchase a flight on Norwegian in April to Stewart as its convenient for my trip. However they are not taking any booking beyond the end of March.

Has the route been dropped?

kevinandrew · 08-07-2018 11:02pm

nkfox wrote: »

I am looking to purchase a flight on Norwegian in April to Stewart as its convenient for my trip. However they are not taking any booking beyond the end of March.

Has the route been dropped?

They probably haven't finalised their summer schedule yet, April falls in the airline summer season and an airline like Norwegian may not want to commit themselves this far ahead.

I was going to use Aer Lingus as an example but all their transatlantic routes appear bookable well into the summer...

nkfox · 08-07-2018 11:18pm

Thanks for the reply. I will wait and see what happens over the next few months.

Comhrá · 12-07-2018 11:54am

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-12/norwegian-air-posts-record-revenue-as-buyers-circle-carrier

kevinandrew · 12-07-2018 2:28pm

Nice to see a profit posted, especially when a loss was expected but while it makes a good headline, the underlining story is still one of a loss.

Yield was down -10% and unit revenue was down -11% in the second quarter. Much like profits in previous quarters, none of it has come from the operational airline business which still appears loss making with costs higher than revenue.

trellheim · 12-07-2018 2:56pm

Didnt Leo V come back on Norwegian last week ?

Idbatterim · 20-07-2018 3:59pm

I want to raise a point, I listened to a podcast from norwegian, talking about how they choose routes, obviously they go for those with the best returns. So Id like them to explain to me, how operating a Dublin to Vegas route, which would be closer to any of the other european airports they fly too and has no competition, has larger passenger numbers than those airports and belfast is up the road, isnt on their radar?

They couldnt even tax off a MTOW in vegas a year or two back , frequently, when the temperature hit 40 degrees. As they use the max seat count the planes can take.

I am meant to believe that there is bigger demand to go there from copenhagen, stockholm and oslo?!

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/11/17/too-hot-fly-norwegian-air-suspends-summer-las-vegas-flights/94025902/

JCX BXC · 20-07-2018 4:01pm

I think the answers staring you in the face and you're too in love with the potential for the route to know it. No disrespect, but you'd of course have a natural bias at least.

Honestly, it's been brought up so many times before, I don't know if you expect a different answer this time, or you're trying to wind people up.

Idbatterim · 20-07-2018 4:03pm

no absolutely not trying to wind anyone up. Do you believe those cities that are another few hundred miles further west, have more demand than Dublin? The amount of Irish going to vegas any time I fly there via the uk or states, is considerable...

IAG are just happy to route you via london / manchester or a partner airline...

its funny how aer lingus can now fly to Seattle, yet the entertainment and conference capital of the world isnt viable?

Kev11491 · 20-07-2018 4:30pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

no absolutely not trying to wind anyone up. Do you believe those cities that are another few hundred miles further west, have more demand than Dublin? The amount of Irish going to vegas any time I fly there via the uk or states, is considerable...

IAG are just happy to route you via london / manchester or a partner airline...

its funny how aer lingus can now fly to Seattle, yet the entertainment and conference capital of the world isnt viable?

Again, logical opinions have been stated before regarding why airlines may not want to operate the service. Seattle is a huge tech hub, like dublin and it has excellent onward connections with Alaska Airlines

Locker10a · 20-07-2018 4:43pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

no absolutely not trying to wind anyone up. Do you believe those cities that are another few hundred miles further west, have more demand than Dublin? The amount of Irish going to vegas any time I fly there via the uk or states, is considerable...

IAG are just happy to route you via london / manchester or a partner airline...

its funny how aer lingus can now fly to Seattle, yet the entertainment and conference capital of the world isnt viable?

I’m sure Aer lingus aren’t ignoring Vegas for the fun of it, they’ll choose what the market statistics tell them is the best business case, I’m sure Vegas will be a route in future direct from Dublin .
Norwegian only do Vegas in winter as the slots they hold mean they can only operate during the day and it’s too hot in the summer to take off.
They’d have serious feed from their short haul networks in Scandinavia to OSL, CPH and ARN which helps them fill the flights from there, they don’t have that in Dublin

JCX BXC · 20-07-2018 4:46pm

For Norwegian, they'd likely have to have a based 787 before they even think about it. W rotations on long haul routes are a nightmare.

goingnowhere · 20-07-2018 4:47pm

Seattle is tied with business agreements possibly with Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, leasing companies, Ryanair even plus an interline agreement with Alaska and its packed from folks I know who have been on it.

Norwegian don't interline with anyone else which limits options, but its business they could have got if they had put a 787 in the mix and chased it down

I'd imagine we will see EI appear in Vegas off season to as they have way too many frames now for the winter timetable. The numbers for Vegas don't really stack up, great when there are big events on with a draw from Europe (CES for the tech folks) but its hard to see it full. EI has the advantage of visibility of numbers from Dublin via LHR/LGW/MAN and previously AMS for connections to understand the demand.

Norwegian doesn't have that data and its not going to push traffic from ARN/OSL to DUB as connections?

IE 222 · 21-07-2018 10:09am

Idbatterim wrote: »

I want to raise a point, I listened to a podcast from norwegian, talking about how they choose routes, obviously they go for those with the best returns. So Id like them to explain to me, how operating a Dublin to Vegas route, which would be closer to any of the other european airports they fly too and has no competition, has larger passenger numbers than those airports and belfast is up the road, isnt on their radar?

They couldnt even tax off a MTOW in vegas a year or two back , frequently, when the temperature hit 40 degrees. As they use the max seat count the planes can take.

I am meant to believe that there is bigger demand to go there from copenhagen, stockholm and oslo?!

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/11/17/too-hot-fly-norwegian-air-suspends-summer-las-vegas-flights/94025902/

Out of interest, if a Vegas flight was announced how often would you use it.

Idbatterim · 21-07-2018 10:38am

IE 222 wrote: »

Out of interest, if a Vegas flight was announced how often would you use it.

Probably twice a year. A group trip is planned next year and I’ll go on that. But that’s it for me, I’m not connecting after that, I’m done with it. I’ll ditch the trips before I’ll connect in future ...

Locker10a · 21-07-2018 12:24pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

IE 222 wrote: »

Out of interest, if a Vegas flight was announced how often would you use it.

Probably twice a year. A group trip is planned next year and I’ll go on that. But that’s it for me, I’m not connecting after that, I’m done with it. I’ll ditch the trips before I’ll connect in future ...

So imagine most people in Ireland who also like going to Vegas can probably justify going maybe once every two years! And maybe you can see it’s not the goldmine for airline you think it might be!

Idbatterim · 21-07-2018 12:31pm

Locker10a wrote: »

So imagine most people in Ireland who also like going to Vegas can probably justify going maybe once every two years! And maybe you can see it’s not the goldmine for airline you think it might be!

If there was a direct route, more people would take the trip and it’s certainly easier to justify going 4-5 nights direct. With the layover, I go 9-10 nights. Just take off one working week. I’m not saying it’s an unignired goldmine. Surely at this stage, it’s not unreasonable that the fifth, possibly 4th largest transatlantic hub in Europe, that will handle 33,000,000 passengers this year, doesn’t have a route 3/4 times weekly to there. Aer Lingus are very conservative explains it on that front and the fact they are happy to route you through iag or a partner airline. With Norwegian, it must be the feeder traffic they have in Scandinavia or bad decision making, because on their own, I don’t buy for a minute that bloody Oslo or Copenhagen, Stockholm have more Vegas traffic than Dublin would have

Locker10a · 21-07-2018 1:25pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

So imagine most people in Ireland who also like going to Vegas can probably justify going maybe once every two years! And maybe you can see it’s not the goldmine for airline you think it might be!

If there was a direct route, more people would take the trip and it’s certainly easier to justify going 4-5 nights direct. With the layover, I go 9-10 nights. Just take off one working week. I’m not saying it’s an unignired goldmine. Surely at this stage, it’s not unreasonable that the fifth, possibly 4th largest transatlantic hub in Europe, that will handle 33,000,000 passengers this year, doesn’t have a route 3/4 times weekly to there. Aer Lingus are very conservative explains it on that front and the fact they are happy to route you through iag or a partner airline. With Norwegian, it must be the feeder traffic they have in Scandinavia or bad decision making, because on their own, I don’t buy for a minute that bloody Oslo or Copenhagen, Stockholm have more Vegas traffic than Dublin would have

Scandinavians have a lot of disposable income, they’re probably the richest countries in Europe, and like I said Norwegian have huge networks for connections from all the Scandinavian capitals they operate in

Idbatterim · 21-07-2018 1:45pm

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/dublin-airport-welcomes-norwegian's-transatlantic-expansion

john boye · 21-07-2018 2:21pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

If there was a direct route, more people would take the trip and it’s certainly easier to justify going 4-5 nights direct. With the layover, I go 9-10 nights. Just take off one working week.

How is connecting in LHR or LGW such a massive hindrance to you? People do it literally all the time, it's just a fact of life for flying long haul.

Idbatterim · 21-07-2018 2:25pm

john boye wrote: »

How is connecting in LHR or LGW such a massive hindrance to you? People do it literally all the time, it's just a fact of life for flying long haul.

the last two times I have flown from gatwick, a nightmare, had to clear security again! Flight on the way from Dublin to gatwick, was sat on the ground in dublin for an hour, due to congestion at gatwick. Barely made the connecting flight. The time before that, sat on the ground an hour and a half past allocated take off time, due to some systems fault at gatwick airport. Certainly not flying via the uk again, thats out!

flying backwards, then on the way home, last time via manchester on way back, to fly over dublin , to then arrive back here 2-3 hours later, no thanks! Also flying back via manchester the last time, had to clear security again, 45 mins...

ongarboy · 21-07-2018 9:04pm

The obsession with some here to keep harping on about the introduction of direct flights to the gambling capital of the world is slightly odd. Many people I know including myself have been to Vegas, loved it, but don't recall it as a city we kept wanting to go back to over and over again. In many cases, a one off fantastic trip sufficed! Whereas most people I know keep going back to places like NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco etc on repeat visits. This is also the demand that the airlines have researched, identified and provided for.

California Dreamer · 22-07-2018 1:43am

Many people I know including myself have been to Las Vegas every couple of years for the past 20 years. Whether it was on a lads holiday, stag, with my partner or going to a convention.

JCX BXC · 22-07-2018 3:31am

California Dreamer wrote: »

Many people I know including myself have been to Las Vegas every couple of years for the past 20 years. Whether it was on a lads holiday, stag, with my partner or going to a convention.

Strange, for me anyone I know that's gone to Vegas has only gone the once, and normally a part of a larger trip.

Blut2 · 22-07-2018 2:18pm

ongarboy wrote: »

The obsession with some here to keep harping on about the introduction of direct flights to the gambling capital of the world is slightly odd. Many people I know including myself have been to Vegas, loved it, but don't recall it as a city we kept wanting to go back to over and over again. In many cases, a one off fantastic trip sufficed! Whereas most people I know keep going back to places like NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco etc on repeat visits. This is also the demand that the airlines have researched, identified and provided for.

Whatever about the benefits of visiting Vegas personally multiple times, what stands out to me more is that certain posters have repeatedly had it explained to them that Vegas is just not as commercially viable a route as myriad other North American options open to EI. Lack of business traffic, lack of onward PAX connectivity, lack of cargo etc. It just makes me think of that quote about insanity being doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

mikel97 · 25-07-2018 5:49pm

Off again next week, left late booking but manage get good bargain again. Kudos Norwegian

California Dreamer · 25-07-2018 10:09pm

Blut2 wrote: »

Whatever about the benefits of visiting Vegas personally multiple times, what stands out to me more is that certain posters have repeatedly had it explained to them that Vegas is just not as commercially viable a route as myriad other North American options open to EI. Lack of business traffic, lack of onward PAX connectivity, lack of cargo etc. It just makes me think of that quote about insanity being doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

Does anything actually have to make sense here? We are not sitting in a boardroom of an airline going through mountains of data seeing what all the other airlines see. Sure I would like to see a direct flight but I would also love to see some other equally pie in the sky flights. The fact that I am on this forum gives me the ability to do that. No harm is intended, just be nice!

Idbatterim · 25-07-2018 10:16pm

“Pie in the sky” lol.

Marcusm · 26-07-2018 10:01am

Idbatterim wrote: »

the last two times I have flown from gatwick, a nightmare, had to clear security again! Flight on the way from Dublin to gatwick, was sat on the ground in dublin for an hour, due to congestion at gatwick. Barely made the connecting flight. The time before that, sat on the ground an hour and a half past allocated take off time, due to some systems fault at gatwick airport. Certainly not flying via the uk again, thats out!

flying backwards, then on the way home, last time via manchester on way back, to fly over dublin , to then arrive back here 2-3 hours later, no thanks! Also flying back via manchester the last time, had to clear security again, 45 mins...

Of course you have to clear security again, that should hardly have been a surprise.

Noxegon · 26-07-2018 10:06am

Marcusm wrote: »

Of course you have to clear security again, that should hardly have been a surprise.

Actually it's not always necessary to clear security a second time on a connecting flight. If you connect flights from Dublin->Istanbul->Elsewhere there is no second check at Istanbul.

irishbloke77 · 26-07-2018 10:11am

Marcusm wrote: »

Of course you have to clear security again, that should hardly have been a surprise.

I travel quite a bit, yet I dont get this either. If you are transitting an airport, and staying airside (ie not collecting bags, going out into the airport and checking in again), why should you have to clear security again?

If you clear security once and are safe to fly on the first flight, what can change for the second flight, if you stay airside? Isnt everything airside supposed to be safe and secure?

goingnowhere · 26-07-2018 10:12am

Idbatterim wrote: »

the last two times I have flown from gatwick, a nightmare, had to clear security again! Flight on the way from Dublin to gatwick, was sat on the ground in dublin for an hour, due to congestion at gatwick. Barely made the connecting flight. The time before that, sat on the ground an hour and a half past allocated take off time, due to some systems fault at gatwick airport. Certainly not flying via the uk again, thats out!

UK requires ALL passengers to go through security unless they arrived from another UK airport.

The normal practice is passengers arriving from friendly/safe locations e.g EU/US/CA do not require rescreening. This is certainly the case in Amsterdam, Dublin but depends on airport layout

Marcusm · 26-07-2018 10:27am

irishbloke77 wrote: »

I travel quite a bit, yet I dont get this either. If you are transitting an airport, and staying airside (ie not collecting bags, going out into the airport and checking in again), why should you have to clear security again?

If you clear security once and are safe to fly on the first flight, what can change for the second flight, if you stay airside? Isnt everything airside supposed to be safe and secure?

Because many countries do not trust the security arrangements at airports outside their control.

The ironic thing is that any LV direct flight from Dublin would also require two security checks - one by DAA and secondly by the TSA managed staff at the preclearance area. Same number as any of the connecting flights!

Marcusm · 26-07-2018 10:28am

Noxegon wrote: »

Actually it's not always necessary to clear security a second time on a connecting flight. If you connect flights from Dublin->Istanbul->Elsewhere there is no second check at Istanbul.

Given some of the locations served from IST, I would see this as a reason not to transit there rather than a positive factor!

Podge_irl · 26-07-2018 10:42am

Marcusm wrote: »

Because many countries do not trust the security arrangements at airports outside their control.

UK is pretty much the only place in Europe I would expect to go through security when transiting.

Noxegon · 26-07-2018 1:29pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Given some of the locations served from IST, I would see this as a reason not to transit there rather than a positive factor!

It depends on your origin.

I was rescrwened on my way home when I originated at FRU. They even had me power up my laptop.

Padraig Mor · 26-07-2018 2:30pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

UK requires ALL passengers to go through security unless they arrived from another UK airport.

The normal practice is passengers arriving from friendly/safe locations e.g EU/US/CA do not require rescreening. This is certainly the case in Amsterdam, Dublin but depends on airport layout

Yeah, it's a UK thing. I came into Heathrow T2 recently on EI from Cork, delayed. What was originally a super - tight anyway connection of 1 hour (!) to SAS was now twenty minutes - and I didn't even have my SAS boarding pass! Had to run all the way to the end of T2 and get security screened (again) before booting it to the (fortunately also delayed) SAS gate - which was literally next to the EI gate I'd just come out from!

VG31 · 26-07-2018 7:15pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

UK is pretty much the only place in Europe I would expect to go through security when transiting.

You have to go through security when connecting at Frankfurt (unless you originate from a Schengen country).

zell12 · 11-08-2018 11:39am

Where can I find a on-time/delay stats for Norwegian flights, over a period of months?

zell12 · 17-08-2018 9:50am

Locker10a · 17-08-2018 11:03am

zell12 wrote: »

That seems to take into account the whole 737 operation all over Europe, I wonder more specifically how the Irish transatlantic flights are doing

Tabnabs · 13-08-2019 3:45pm

To be expected, sadly.

Norwegian Air will no longer operate transatlantic routes between Ireland and North America, after the airline announced that these routes are not commercially viable.

The low cost airline began operating routes between Dublin, Cork, Shannon and the US, amid much fanfare, in July 2017. It will discontinue these routes from September 15 this year.

Norwegian is among dozens of airlines globally who have been impacted by the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX fleet, following two fatal crashes involving the aircraft.

Matthew Wood, SVP Long-Haul Commercial at Norwegian said, "Since March, we have tirelessly sought to minimise the impact on our customers by hiring replacement aircraft to operate services between Ireland and North America. However, as the return to service date for the 737 MAX remains uncertain, this solution is unsustainable."

Mr Wood said the airline is assisting customers by ensuring they can still get to their destination by rerouting them onto other Norwegian services after September 15. Customers will also be offered a full refund if they no longer wish to travel. "We will continue to offer scheduled services from Dublin to Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen as normal," he said.

Norwegian Air is engaging with pilots and cabin crew at its Dublin base, including their respective unions, to ensure that redundancies remain a last resort.

The airlines' 80 Dublin-based administrative staff at Norwegian Air International and Norwegian Group's asset company, Arctic Aviation Assets, will not be affected by the route closures.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0813/1068612-norwegian-air-to-discontinue-transatlantic-routes/

JCX BXC · 13-08-2019 3:47pm

Not in the slightest bit shocked, flawed business model.

I repeat what I said 2 years ago, (to much abuse), true low cost transatlantic simply doesn't work on a large scale. A hybrid model perhaps, but not the 00's ryanair model.

Idbatterim · 13-08-2019 3:53pm

What transatlantic services will cork have after Norwegian pull out ?

marno21 · 13-08-2019 4:00pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

What transatlantic services will cork have after Norwegian pull out ?

None. The seasonal Providence flight was Cork's only transatlantic route.

kevinandrew · 13-08-2019 4:08pm

No surprise, it became obvious within the first few months that Norwegian couldn’t even carve out a niche for themselves let alone challenge Aer Lingus and the US carriers.

Van.Bosch · 13-08-2019 4:09pm

The article links it to the max issue which I’m sure was a factor but it doesn’t say they will resume when they are air worthy again which I take means they won’t.

Tenzor07 · 13-08-2019 4:14pm

How long before the 787 Transatlantic flights are pulled also?

I'm sure Virgin, BA and others are killing NAI...

Norwegian Air International discussion

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