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Clonmel Thread

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Comments

  • #752
    Vizzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    The planning for a multi story was also rejected for the Mary st car park. And the fact the Arms is left in the state its in is a fupping disgrace.

    Too slim a brown envelope for the councillors I imagine.

    In Kilkenny you can practically park on the main st in a multi story. And the shopping centre was built almost in the town centre also.

    That's a case of the planners caring about the town rather than helping out the land barons with useless land on the fringes of towns convert them into shopping outlets people have to drive to.

    Source( I'll even accept the hint that there was something dodgy going on) ?

    With regard to the Car Park in Mary street,to make it viable it would have to be about 8 stories high.
    This is because there are so many wayleaves from the carpark to private businesses(e.g AIB,Phelan Shoes) hence reducing the footprint of the carpark.
    If it were such an attractive proposition I would have thought that developers would have been queuing up to get started.
    The most difficult one would be Dunnes though with Artic trucks delivering to them.
    Of course you could close Dunnes down or get the artics to park on O'Connell Street.
    Which of those 2 options would you prefer?
    With regard to people needing to walk to the shops,unless you actually live in the Town Centre you need to walk or drive to the shops.There is plenty of parking at Suirside carpark(5 minute walk) over the bridge on the site of the old creamery(2 minute walk) or Gordon Place (2 minute walk)


  • #753
    Vizzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    resisted ? so how come there is now 3 at least ?
    Ok - Dunnes on the Waterford road has always been there, and Tesco out manoeuvred them ( as they have done in many locations to be fair ), but there was never a need for the Showgrounds and nor was or is there a need for the Poppy fields other than to use waste land to build something on.

    Like a badly needed hotel perhaps ?


  • #754
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Vizzy wrote: »
    Like a badly needed hotel perhaps ?

    Badly needed ? lol - If a hotel was so badly needed, what was wrong with redoing the Clonmel Arms ? no tax breaks maybe ? there is no way Clonmel's other hotels have anywhere near 100% occupancy more than 10 nights a year.
    No back handers for those in the know to allow unsuitable land be developed into retail is more likely the reason.

    They'll soon be looking for government money to pay more extortionate prices for land to bypass the bypass as it gets clogged with traffic driving round the shopping malls built on the outskirts.

    With regard to deliveries - there are loads of shops in the centre of towns around the country get around what you say is a major issue, it doesn't take a genius to figure them out either.


  • #755
    hamco
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭hamco


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    resisted ? so how come there is now 3 at least ?
    Ok - Dunnes on the Waterford road has always been there, and Tesco out manoeuvred them ( as they have done in many locations to be fair ), but there was never a need for the Showgrounds and nor was or is there a need for the Poppy fields other than to use waste land to build something on.

    Imo the Showgrounds was very much needed, its a very well planned out building with ample parking and easy access, its only minutes from the town centre and has given job security to many people.

    Its well known a couple of the businesses in the showgrounds were looking for a suitable site in town for years, maybe if the old tesco site had of been developed when the celtic tiger was here, they might of set up shop in there.

    The poppyfields is also needed, if you look at the businesses set up there, using woodies as an example, where else could they of set up except on or near a bypass, its a huge store with artics delivering all the time and its well laid out delivery area never effects traffic flow in the area.

    Imo we do need the shopping centres we have, but I agree the town centre the town centre needs to be improved to attract more retailers. Market place is half empty, Oconnell mall is empty.

    We have 2 carparks besides the old tesco one, and maybe outsiders dont even know they exsist, In some towns in the UK, as you approach the town centre, there are digital display signs showing how many carparks there are and how many spaces are left in each. Its a great system that works well, would be nice to see something like it in our beloved Clonmel:D


  • #756
    icjzfmq7ewon1t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭icjzfmq7ewon1t


    hamco wrote: »
    In some towns in the UK, as you approach the town centre, there are digital display signs showing how many carparks there are and how many spaces are left in each.

    No need to go to the UK to see this :confused:


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  • #757
    hamco
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭hamco


    Terrence Gorgeous Brunette wrote: »
    No need to go to the UK to see this :confused:

    Lets hope we can see it in Clonmel soon:D


  • #758
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Just got word that the bar in the GAA centre was closed down yesterday by the commitee. Staff were only informed yesterday at 2 O clock and had no warning whatsoever.


  • #759
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    Just got word that the bar in the GAA centre was closed down yesterday by the commitee. Staff were only informed yesterday at 2 O clock and had no warning whatsoever.

    :confused: That is really unexpected


  • #760
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    questionmark? wrote: »
    :confused: That is really unexpected

    Sure is. Even the staff were surprised to find out. Saw a statement from one if the barmen who had been there years and he said the first he knew of it was when he was told yesterday. Sad to see it go, it was more than just a drinking spot, it was a great function hall as well as a social spot for dancing , cards and even darts.


  • #761
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    Sure is. Even the staff were surprised to find out. Saw a statement from one if the barmen who had been there years and he said the first he knew of it was when he was told yesterday. Sad to see it go, it was more than just a drinking spot, it was a great function hall as well as a social spot for dancing , cards and even darts.


    It really was more than just a drinking spot Darragh. Very sad to see another part of Clonmel History coming to a close.


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  • #762
    daniels.ducks
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭daniels.ducks


    Terrence Gorgeous Brunette wrote: »
    No need to go to the UK to see this :confused:

    It's also in most Irish cities.


  • #763
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    Originally Posted by RobAMerc viewpost.gif
    resisted ? so how come there is now 3 at least ?
    Ok - Dunnes on the Waterford road has always been there, and Tesco out manoeuvred them ( as they have done in many locations to be fair ), but there was never a need for the Showgrounds and nor was or is there a need for the Poppy fields other than to use waste land to build something on.
    nonsense showgrounds is a great place. and a lot of people walk there


  • #764
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Departed wrote: »
    nonsense showgrounds is a great place. and a lot of people walk there

    I said there was never a need for it. I never said it was crap nor did I say it wasn't within walking distance. But with its free parking and its outskirts location along with the others mentioned it draws folk from the town centre which is dying on its feet.


  • #765
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I said there was never a need for it. I never said it was crap nor did I say it wasn't within walking distance. But with its free parking and its outskirts location along with the others mentioned it draws folk from the town centre which is dying on its feet.
    i believe there is a need for it gives more choice to people and creates jobs.the town centre is dying cos the traffic fees and rip off prices. when in clonmel i do not shop in town centre and think showgrounds is brilliant place. long may it thrive
    i also disagreethere was never a need for poppyfield - that brough woodies and did electrical and give wider choice. the only people who "do not need it" are the town centre businesses who could charge what they like and keep people in a small circle where they controlled prices with no real competition to towncentre. Before showground many went to Cork for Marks Spencer etc


  • #766
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Departed wrote: »
    i believe there is a need for it gives more choice to people and creates jobs.the town centre is dying cos the traffic fees and rip off prices. when in clonmel i do not shop in town centre and think showgrounds is brilliant place. long may it thrive
    i also disagreethere was never a need for poppyfield - that brough woodies and did electrical and give wider choice. the only people who "do not need it" are the town centre businesses who could charge what they like and keep people in a small circle where they controlled prices with no real competition to towncentre. Before showground many went to Cork for Marks Spencer etc

    A decent size shopping centre could have been built on a site closer to the town centre. Where it is feeds into the car culture and when that's coupled with the stupid parking policies in the centre it literally drives people out of the centre.


  • #767
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    A decent size shopping centre could have been built on a site closer to the town centre. Where it is feeds into the car culture and when that's coupled with the stupid parking policies in the centre it literally drives people out of the centre.

    earlier you wrote
    nor did I say it wasn't within walking distance
    now you say
    Where it is feeds into the car culture
    I thinkm its fine where it is and people walk there all the time. Where could it be built nearer to town centre and still have free parking?


  • #768
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    A decent size shopping centre could have been built on a site closer to the town centre. Where it is feeds into the car culture and when that's coupled with the stupid parking policies in the centre it literally drives people out of the centre.

    Where exactly? All the land closer to the town centre was in use at the time. No one knew Sean Quinn was going to close the old Barlo Plant or that The Army Barracks would close. Places like the Clonmel Arms or the old Tesco/Quinnsworth are far too small. Even if they did manage to redevelop the town centre to accomodate the Showground shops where exactly would people park and how would the already creaking one way traffic system cope.

    Most towns have their new shopping centres much further away. If you park around the swimming pool you are maybe 5 minutes from the far end of O'Connell Street in one direction and maybe 10 minutes from the Showgrounds in the other. That's not bad. In Limerick for example the shopping centres that are killing the city centre are a 45-60 minute walk away from their O'Connell Street.

    Also many of the shops in the Showgrounds (Argos, M&S, Iceland etc) that would have struggled to find space big enough at a reasonable rent in the centre of town at the time that the Showgrounds was built. Remember the hassle there has been in Limerick finding a suitable location to meet the needs of M&S. This isn't a choice between O'Connell Street and the Showgrounds. These shops simply wouldn't be in Clonmel if it were not for the Showgrounds.

    The showgrounds is a great addition to the town and is not to blame for the woes of retailers on the traditional main shopping streets. Rent, Rates, shambolic parking, confusing traffic flows, and the general economic collapse are higher on the list. While we can't do much about the economy there is plenty that the town can do to improve the business environment.


  • #769
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    touts wrote: »
    Where exactly? All the land closer to the town centre was in use at the time. No one knew Sean Quinn was going to close the old Barlo Plant or that The Army Barracks would close. Places like the Clonmel Arms or the old Tesco/Quinnsworth are far too small. Even if they did manage to redevelop the town centre to accomodate the Showground shops where exactly would people park and how would the already creaking one way traffic system cope.

    Most towns have their new shopping centres much further away. If you park around the swimming pool you are maybe 5 minutes from the far end of O'Connell Street in one direction and maybe 10 minutes from the Showgrounds in the other. That's not bad. In Limerick for example the shopping centres that are killing the city centre are a 45-60 minute walk away from their O'Connell Street.

    Also many of the shops in the Showgrounds (Argos, M&S, Iceland etc) that would have struggled to find space big enough at a reasonable rent in the centre of town at the time that the Showgrounds was built. Remember the hassle there has been in Limerick finding a suitable location to meet the needs of M&S. This isn't a choice between O'Connell Street and the Showgrounds. These shops simply wouldn't be in Clonmel if it were not for the Showgrounds.

    The showgrounds is a great addition to the town and is not to blame for the woes of retailers on the traditional main shopping streets. Rent, Rates, shambolic parking, confusing traffic flows, and the general economic collapse are higher on the list. While we can't do much about the economy there is plenty that the town can do to improve the business environment.
    some people like to pretend it is


  • #770
    archtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭archtech


    There is one significant site closer to the town centre which was considered in the past for retail/commercial development, including the provision of a 5 star hotel and a multi storey car park however it never made it through planning. The site was located on Suir Island.

    The Showgrounds site was properly the best available at the time, for a shopping centre of its size. I'm not sure how commercially successful it is, however I would guess there would be far more vacant units in it today if it had opened 2-3 years earlier when tenants would have been tied into higher rents. I would certainly consider the showground within walking distance of the town centre,, however it does suffer poor linkage between it and o connell/gladstone street. Parnell Street isn't a great shopping street.

    Ask any business person in Clonmel and they will tell you its rates and not rent that's the biggest issue in Clonmel. For example the rates associated with any of the units in Market Place are actually higher than the rents of the units even were in the Celtic Tiger times ( that was after when rates were applicable on them, Market Place had units had 10 years rate free when they were built under the urban renewal scheme) .


  • #771
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    archtech wrote: »
    Market Place had units had 10 years rate free when they were built under the urban renewal scheme) .
    Didn't hear any complaints about that or all the money they made in the boom years


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  • #772
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Departed wrote: »
    earlier you wrote now you say
    I thinkm its fine where it is and people walk there all the time. Where could it be built nearer to town centre and still have free parking?

    Are you trying to suggest that my 2 statements are somehow contrary to each other ?
    I am ok with people disagreeing with me. People seem quite happy to let these big multinationals come in and build on our town outskirts sucking the life out of the town centres and ensuring more of our money is spent with them rather than in the local shop owners stores in town centres, and that is sad.

    This happened in the US first and more recently the UK before us, they really regret it and I think its depressing we couldn't learn from that here too.


  • #773
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Departed wrote: »
    Didn't hear any complaints about that or all the money they made in the boom years

    so they are supposed to open at a loss indefinitely because they had it "so good" before ?

    this attitude tells me it's time to bow out here.


  • #774
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    Are you trying to suggest that my 2 statements are somehow contrary to each other ?
    .
    seems that way. you blame the car culture but say it is withing walking distance


  • #775
    Monisey
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Monisey


    Anyone hear anything about the GAA club closing down? The bar has closed as far as I know.


  • #776
    Departed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    Monisey wrote: »
    Anyone hear anything about the GAA club closing down? The bar has closed as far as I know.
    it closed last week. apparently no one was told till the time came including thenbarcmanager. a darts club had a big comp arranged but got help from some football club to have it on their premises


  • #777
    Cerbera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭Cerbera


    Monisey wrote: »
    Anyone hear anything about the GAA club closing down? The bar has closed as far as I know.

    Is that the one on the Western Rd?


  • #778
    Monisey
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Monisey


    Yep, across from the hospital.


  • #779
    Gotya
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Gotya


    Hey, anyone know of any good deals around for a barbeque.
    Planning one for the match sunday.
    I mean food not an actual barbeque. burgers, sausages and so on..


  • #780
    callaway92
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,837 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Gotya wrote: »
    Hey, anyone know of any good deals around for a barbeque.
    Planning one for the match sunday.
    I mean food not an actual barbeque. burgers, sausages and so on..

    As far as quality is concerned, Jim Whelan's in Oakville can't be beaten. Sadly they would be one of the more expensive ones though.

    We still get most from there or else Kennedy's in Cahir.


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  • #781
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Anybody know what's happening the Clonmel Arms? Lot of work going on there the last few weeks. The building was painted and cleaned up a fortnight ago and I see today people working in around the Paddock area of the hotel. Looks promising. I loved that place.

    Contd:

    I took a walk past and had a good nose in the window and the paddock seems to be gutted and I saw 2-3 workers in there.

    Looks promising. Does anyone know who currently owns the place? Or even if the proposed development is going ahead?


  • #782
    Vizzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    I think that it is just getting a bit of a spruce up before the judging in the "Entente Forale" which takes place next week


  • #783
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Vizzy wrote: »
    I think that it is just getting a bit of a spruce up before the judging in the "Entente Forale" which takes place next week

    They wouldn't be doing inside for that though :)


  • #784
    btb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭btb


    rumor doing the rounds that the borough council were going to get it on to the derilect sites register and take control of it. So maybe the owners are doing something to head this off.


  • #785
    Cerbera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭Cerbera


    I walked past it today and saw / heard nothing going on there.

    Personally I doubt if anything will happen with it.

    The building was in a poor state of repair before it closed and will certainly be in a worse state by now.

    It's very unlikely that someone with the kind of money needed to put the place back together to a good standard would be spending their money there where they would be virtually guaranteed to lose it.

    Any work I've seen there over the last few weeks seemed to be just cosmetic.


  • #786
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Cerbera wrote: »
    I walked past it today and saw / heard nothing going on there.

    Personally I doubt if anything will happen with it.

    The building was in a poor state of repair before it closed and will certainly be in a worse state by now.

    It's very unlikely that someone with the kind of money needed to put the place back together to a good standard would be spending their money there where they would be virtually guaranteed to lose it.

    Any work I've seen there over the last few weeks seemed to be just cosmetic.

    As a hotel yes there would be a lot of money lost but as a bar only well there could be some scope there. I know if my numbers come up in the euro millions this week that's what I'd be doing :)


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  • #787
    Cerbera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭Cerbera


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    As a hotel yes there would be a lot of money lost but as a bar only well there could be some scope there. I know if my numbers come up in the euro millions this week that's what I'd be doing :)

    You seem to have the perfect recipe to make a small fortune there ..... start with a big fortune and buy a bar.

    ;)

    :)

    Seriously though, the actual structure of that place can't be in great order at this stage.


  • #788
    Dionysius2
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Dionysius2


    What's the story on the Bridge Bar ? Heard that it's for demolishing ?
    OMG....how can they do this to the most frequently flooded pub in Ireland ?
    That place made history !


  • #789
    Monisey
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Monisey


    The foundations have been wrecked due to the flooding. It's not safe in there anymore.


  • #790
    tippspur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭tippspur


    Great music around the Town today for the Busking festival.


  • #791
    Meathlass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Meathlass


    Great buzz around town yesterday and last night with the Busking Festival. Dublin City Ramblers in Mulcahys were great .... what was the story with the lack of taxis though?

    Walked the whole way home in a monsoon :-(


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  • #792
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Meathlass wrote: »
    Great buzz around town yesterday and last night with the Busking Festival. Dublin City Ramblers in Mulcahys were great .... what was the story with the lack of taxis though?

    Walked the whole way home in a monsoon :-(


    All the taxis were prob busy cause of the bad weather. And it depends on what time you go looking for one, anytime after 1.30am and its near to impossible to flag a taxi down in town.


  • #793
    ReacherCreature
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    Really? I always see a taxi rank outside McDonalds that's fairly active after 1.30? But admittedly that's of a Saturday and not Sunday.


  • #794
    writer_lady170
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭writer_lady170


    hiya folks, I've heard a rumor that supermac's are coming to clonmel, is that true?


  • #795
    ReacherCreature
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    Not sure but I have heard rumours from a long time ago that they were opening up in the vicinity of Tesco's but that seems to have dissipated.


  • #796
    Deminiman
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Deminiman


    Heard that rumour a long time ago, they were supposed to have bought GBM garage across from Tesco, and were to make it a drive through, but nothing since.


  • #797
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Deminiman wrote: »
    Heard that rumour a long time ago, they were supposed to have bought GBM garage across from Tesco, and were to make it a drive through, but nothing since.

    Heard the exact same rumour. But that's exactly prob what it is just a rumour!


  • #798
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭cml387


    The old GBM building is up for lease again (there was a sign saying sold, now it's a sign for lease).
    There is PP sought for a takeaway and drive through across the road where the old co-op building was.


    On another topic altogether, there are a lot of civil defence personnel around town this evening.Are the flood barriers going up?


  • #799
    Vizzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    cml387 wrote: »
    On another topic altogether, there are a lot of civil defence personnel around town this evening.Are the flood barriers going up?

    There is a Boil Water Notice for a part of the town( check the Borough Council website for more detail) and the Civil Defence lads are handing out leaflets to the households affected.
    They might be putting up the flood defences 2 moro though,given the weather forecast.


  • #800
    solerina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭solerina


    these are the affected areas according to South Tipp Co Co website

    Areas Affected



    •Town Centre/Davis Road area- Joyces Lane in the West to Dunnes Stores on the Davis Road in the East; Cuirt an Ri/King Street on the North side to the River Suir on the South side
    •Mountain Road Area (This notice does not apply to other areas and water schemes in Clonmel)


  • #801
    Meathlass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Meathlass


    ReacherCreature wrote: »
    Really? I always see a taxi rank outside McDonalds that's fairly active after 1.30? But admittedly that's of a Saturday and not Sunday.

    I usually never have a problem getting taxis around the 3-4am mark but this time I walked out towards the showgrounds thinking there'd be lots of traffic coming back into town but nothing. In future I'll stick to O'Connell st for taxis. Shoes still aren't dry after all the rain on saturday night. :)


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