Clonmel Thread

copy1

What happens is people get away with lots because other people wont speak up....

ReacherCreature

Took a stroll through the town on Saturday evening. Sunshine makes the town look lovely. Pleasure walking about.

copy1

shame all the closed business as u walked i bet

Meathlass

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Took a stroll through the town on Saturday evening. Sunshine makes the town look lovely. Pleasure walking about.

The town looks gorgeous at the moment, all rolling hills, heather etc. I've lived in a lot of other parts of Ireland and Clonmel is in such a lovely setting, forget to appreciate it sometimes.

nowayjosie

Meathlass wrote: »

The town looks gorgeous at the moment, all rolling hills, heather etc. I've lived in a lot of other parts of Ireland and Clonmel is in such a lovely setting, forget to appreciate it sometimes.

I agree completely - but I still say its a very changed place since thousands of new people have moved into such a small town.

ReacherCreature

Bit of music walking along with a bustling crowd and rays of sunshine make it all lovely. It has its downsides mainly of socially undesirable folk and empty storefronts but I love this town.

I think it's a good thing that there's more people about. More the merrier and it obviously helps the town grow.

ReacherCreature

copy1 wrote: »

shame all the closed business as u walked i bet

Best leave the negativity at the door and let us have some fun about the town.

nowayjosie

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Bit of music walking along with a bustling crowd and rays of sunshine make it all lovely. It has its downsides mainly of socially undesirable folk and empty storefronts but I love this town.

I think it's a good thing that there's more people about. More the merrier and it obviously helps the town grow.

Clonmel Town cannot grow - when there is high unemployment, so I have to disagree with you when you say "More the merrier" if there are no jobs for all the people arriving the cost to the tax payer will just increase - which stunts the town thats where the empty store fronts you mentioned come from. The town is a beautiful but very changed town.

Departed

In clonmel yesterday I saw a new shoe shop called mcmahons in gladstone street. Is that the same mcmahons that were in oconnell street beside book centre

Royco

Departed wrote: »

In clonmel yesterday I saw a new shoe shop called mcmahons in gladstone street. Is that the same mcmahons that were in oconnell street beside book centre

It is as far as im aware, heard the reason of change of premises was due to rents. I see paco relocated from poppyfields to the old mcmahons building in O'connell st. Pity O'Connell mall wasnt occupied looks terrible around there

alexmcred

Unfortunately the Commercial rates in Clonmel on town centre buildings are bananas. All we have to do is look at the likes of Market Place which is nearly empty at this stage.

10k+ plus in rates is unsustainable in businesses that have probably seen a 50+% fall in business. But it's all ok because the councillors are still getting paid plus their expenses to do what I'm not sure.

ReacherCreature

The death Market Place is suffering is horrible. One of the nicer places in the town and it's so sparse.

Counted the shops gone the other day and it's depressing counting.

RobAMerc

the councillors in Clonmel should be taken to task over the way they allowed Tesco's effectively "donutised" the town. When Tesco's move to the bypass/ring roads they take a lot of business with them and therefore leave the town centres hollow. Annoyingly this has been happening in the UK for years and is a known problem - something our councillors didn't bother to research and just ploughed ahead ruining the town's commercial centre. But as someone else said "who cares - they got paid right"

In Clonmel we have the added insult we'll now also soon have to build a bypass to bypass the bypass because they have given so much planning permission on the bypass the traffic is chaos.

Rumplestilskin

One of Clonmel's biggest problems is parking in the town centre. It's a nightmare trying to get a place in the old tesco car park or anywhere near there and the price of the parking tickets is a joke!
Carrick on suir as small as it is offer 20mins free parking on the main street.

nowayjosie

Rumplestilskin wrote: »

One of Clonmel's biggest problems is parking in the town centre. It's a nightmare trying to get a place in the old tesco car park or anywhere near there and the price of the parking tickets is a joke!
Carrick on suir as small as it is offer 20mins free parking on the main street.

I have to say I really believe that the main problems are that - far too many new people have moved into Clonmel which would be great if there was plenty of employment and as there's no employment for them its a extra burden on the taxpayer and I suppose the next problem would be that One or Two people own a lot of property in the town, these people have not dropped their rents to match the economic climate and as they are already rich they can afford to (and prefer to) leave these properties idle rather than let them for a reasonable rent. The way to change this folks is when its time to vote - the councilors are still getting paid as was mentioned earlier - well they were voted in by the locals, why vote them in????

Royco

Rumplestilskin wrote: »

One of Clonmel's biggest problems is parking in the town centre. It's a nightmare trying to get a place in the old tesco car park or anywhere near there and the price of the parking tickets is a joke!
Carrick on suir as small as it is offer 20mins free parking on the main street.

Have to agree with you was down at the simming pool clonmel yesterday put €1 in parking meter went in swimming came out and had a parking ticket, they have increased parking to €1.20 an hour there, one euro was only 50 mins absolutly shocked at this,(Warden must be on a bonus scheme,) is this all over clonmel , they just keep increasing everything in this town. you get free parking in carrick and dungarvan, clonmel is just out to screw you, the government should move dail to clonmel fit in well.

RobAMerc

nowayjosie wrote: »

I have to say I really believe that the main problems are that - far too many new people have moved into Clonmel which would be great if there was plenty of employment and as there's no employment for them its a extra burden on the taxpayer and

Benefits come from central government not local - and the more people in the town the more they spend, the more they spend the more money is about the town in open shops and jobs etc. The more people in the town the more money allocated from central government to top up the charges levied by local governments.

nowayjosie wrote: »

I suppose the next problem would be that One or Two people own a lot of property in the town, these people have not dropped their rents to match the economic climate and as they are already rich they can afford to (and prefer to) leave these properties idle rather than let them for a reasonable rent.

This is utter nonsense - no-one particularly the well off would let a building they own lay idle rather than get some form of rent in. Do you think rich people got rich thinking like that ? Plus many leases in Ireland have upward only rent reviews so if things got better the landlord is well entitled to look for more at review time.

There are pretty much 0 people interested in renting any sort of retail units in the town centre. Those that do want to rent something want to rent next to something with a large draw of customers i.e. a tesco's or some other shopping centre. That is why the units near M&S are all full while the ones in the town centre and particularly in O'Connel St and farther up Irish town are empty.

Royco

This is utter nonsense - no-one particularly the well off would let a building they own lay idle rather than get some form of rent in. Do you think rich people got rich thinking like that ? Plus many leases in Ireland have upward only rent reviews so if things got better the landlord is well entitled to look for more at review time.

I know a few landlords and was speaking to a few of them with idle buildings and they told me the rent they were looking for them, most weren't excessive but what is excessive is the rates on the buildings. Every business is valued differently when it comes to rates and these are set out by a valuer from Dublin for the local council for example average annual rates around market sq is €20k+ O'Connell st average €12k+ Irishtown €10k+. These costs are putting people out of business and while the units are closed the landlord doesn't have to pay the rates. There should be some incentive to start a business like first year rates free or reduced for a period of time or base rates on your turn over. In the celtic tiger if a business turned over €200k per year and rates were €20k ,how is it possible for a business in 2012 turning €80k to pay the same rates, these are not actual figures just an example, before anyone questions them.

RobAMerc

I agree re rates, they are still outrageous - but I have found them in the council fairly flexible for a few months on start up.

rates are paid by the tenant normally so it's still not in the landlords interest to have a place closed ( particularly just because they feel like it :rolleyes: )

Departed

Royco wrote: »

Have to agree with you was down at the simming pool clonmel yesterday put €1 in parking meter went in swimming came out and had a parking ticket, they have increased parking to €1.20 an hour there, one euro was only 50 mins absolutly shocked at this,(Warden must be on a bonus scheme,) is this all over clonmel , they just keep increasing everything in this town. you get free parking in carrick and dungarvan, clonmel is just out to screw you, the government should move dail to clonmel fit in well.

go and have a look at the parking on the double yellow lines outside the loreto convent every day

tippspur

Royco wrote: »

Have to agree with you was down at the simming pool clonmel yesterday put €1 in parking meter went in swimming came out and had a parking ticket, they have increased parking to €1.20 an hour there, one euro was only 50 mins absolutly shocked at this,(Warden must be on a bonus scheme,) is this all over clonmel , they just keep increasing everything in this town. you get free parking in carrick and dungarvan, clonmel is just out to screw you, the government should move dail to clonmel fit in well.

It's been 1.20 an hour for parking in Clonmel for a while now.

nowayjosie

RobAMerc wrote: »

Benefits come from central government not local - and the more people in the town the more they spend, the more they spend the more money is about the town in open shops and jobs etc. The more people in the town the more money allocated from central government to top up the charges levied by local governments.


This is utter nonsense - no-one particularly the well off would let a building they own lay idle rather than get some form of rent in. Do you think rich people got rich thinking like that ? Plus many leases in Ireland have upward only rent reviews so if things got better the landlord is well entitled to look for more at review time.

There are pretty much 0 people interested in renting any sort of retail units in the town centre. Those that do want to rent something want to rent next to something with a large draw of customers i.e. a tesco's or some other shopping centre. That is why the units near M&S are all full while the ones in the town centre and particularly in O'Connel St and farther up Irish town are empty.

RobAmerc I agree with you on all that you said – but I just want to point out two things. The first is – I know that benefits come from central government but they initially take this from the wage earners pay packet in other words they get this money from tax payers, the people who are now crippled with USC. This money could be used to fund entrepreneur’s in their start up businesses, all over Ireland not just Clonmel however this money is used to support people who have arrived in Ireland and my point being in Clonmel where they have no chance of getting any employment otherwise the locals wouldn’t be emigrating, and huge amount of them are.
Second point – Some of the landlords in Clonmel are very greedy and always have been, I remember flat hunting when Seagate was booming and I myself had a great job in another company. I phoned a few adds in the local paper regarding flats to let the first thing I was asked by at least 4 of them was “ Are you working in Seagate” when I said no they hung up so quickly I didn’t get a chance to tell them where I was working. And young relatives of mine and some neighbours of mine over the last year who wanted to start off their own businesses have approached landlords and were request to pay up front huge sums of money. So I agree with you in part but I stick by the points I’m making too.

alexmcred

RobAMerc wrote: »

I agree re rates, they are still outrageous - but I have found them in the council fairly flexible for a few months on start up.

The council don't charge rates for the first 12 months on newly opened businesses as far as I know. But as soon as they do the amounts they look for are ridiculous.

The next time our councillors coming looking for a vote it's worth asking them what their total take was for being a councillor i.e the base salary they receive as well as their expenses but I fear people wont. There is no way Clonmel needs the amount of councillors (13 twelve sitting with one vacant position at the moment) that we have and I certainly don't think they should be paid for what they do.

I would also question what use our three South Tipp TD's are again paid ridiculous amounts of money for what I fail to see.

Departed

RobAMerc wrote: »

That is why the units near M&S are all full .

wrong

nowayjosie

Departed wrote: »

wrong

I agree with the last two posts (alexmcred &Departed) what a massive waste of money paying for so many councillors in town the size of Clonmel and widespread opinion held now is that none of them live in the real world regarding the stress and strain put on the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and the others who are about to loose theirs. The fall in their income and then having to apply for Welfare and contrary to what RobAmerc suggests these unfortunate families cannot manage on this money or keep shops open while spending this money! And whats more important they haven’t just arrived into the country looking for this money! They want jobs in the town, they should not have to leave the country - they shouldn't be left to feel there's nothing for them here.
And your right – I don’t believe for a minute that units are full near M&S, when the poster (RobAmerc) says there’s 0 people interested in renting in O’Connell St this is totally untrue – and I just wonder where the information was sourced from.

Departed

nowayjosie wrote: »

I agree with the last two posts (alexmcred &Departed) what a massive waste of money paying for so many councillors in town the size of Clonmel and widespread opinion held now is that none of them live in the real world regarding the stress and strain put on the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and the others who are about to loose theirs. The fall in their income and then having to apply for Welfare and contrary to what RobAmerc suggests these unfortunate families cannot manage on this money or keep shops open while spending this money! And whats more important they haven’t just arrived into the country looking for this money! They want jobs in the town, they should not have to leave the country - they shouldn't be left to feel there's nothing for them here.
And your right – I don’t believe for a minute that units are full near M&S, when the poster (RobAmerc) says there’s 0 people interested in renting in O’Connell St this is totally untrue – and I just wonder where the information was sourced from.

I do not know about the councillors etc but there are at least two shops vacant in Showgrounds. I was in Clonmel last weekend

nowayjosie

Departed wrote: »

I do not know about the councillors etc but there are at least two shops vacant in Showgrounds. I was in Clonmel last weekend

Yes you are right there is at least 2 shops gone - therefore its not as was mentioned a type of magnet for potential business owners to want to be there because M&S are there, that's off the wall.

Departed

nowayjosie wrote: »

Yes you are right there is at least 2 shops gone - therefore its not as was mentioned a type of magnet for potential business owners to want to be there because M&S are there, that's off the wall.

the parking is free though so why would anyone go to the town centre

nowayjosie

Departed wrote: »

the parking is free though so why would anyone go to the town centre

The parking is free alright but the Showgrounds has not got the same variety as the town centre. People go to the town centre for shopping in the likes of Boots, Penny's, Connolly Man or the other mens shops plus the variety of cafes and hairdressers and barbers the town centre has to offer. Showgrounds could never compare to the town centre. In comparison to the town centre that shopping centre is sadly lacking you couldn't swing a cat in M&S there is at least one great shoe shop and one or two women's and men's shops and a cafe and two fast food restaurants and not much more to it really. The parking in the town centre is a huge issue which urgently needs looking at as it curtails foot fall, to the detriment of this lovely town the powers that be have never sat down and sorted it out.

alexmcred

But that's the whole point of what our councillors are suppose to be doing instead of feathering their own nests and tied up in their own pet projects.

To be honest The biggest problem I see in Clonmel is the complete lack of leadership in the council they keep their heads down and then come a knocking for votes for the local elections. The lack of new blood in local politics is also another factor in it.