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American response

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    #32
    Nigel Fairservice
    Registered Users, Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,187 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    Their federal structure isn't doing them any favours in responding to this. Different states are doing different things and also to different degrees. I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.

    There's also too many people involved. The president, 50 state governors, local officials. At least in Ireland we seem to have continuity in terms of people, the response and the message.


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    #33
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Nigel Fairservice wrote: »
    Their federal structure isn't doing them any favours in responding to this. Different states are doing different things and also to different degrees. I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.

    There's also too many people involved. The president, 50 state governors, local officials. At least in Ireland we seem to have continuity in terms of people, the response and the message.

    Exactly its a mess cus Trump is too clueless and lazy to centralise everything to him which is what the country needs a Leader instead hes too busy worrying about how he looks. Hell theres PPE manufacturers in the US still exporting stuff to asia while the US is stealing other countries supplies on thevtarmac in China, its an absolute garbage fire over there.


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    #34
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    You cannot understand what is happening in the US without understanding how rejection of science, rejection of expertise, rejection of reason and rejection of truth have become tribal identifiers for the cult of Trump and right-wing politics in general.

    https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957


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    #35
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Nigel Fairservice wrote: »
    I spoke with a friend over there a few days ago. Their state was in lockdown and the next state over it was nearly business as usual.
    This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.


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    #36
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    biko wrote: »
    I'm confused - is it USA you guys hate, or capitalism, or Trump?
    Just so I know.
    I like America for many reasons ,but I'm not blind to her shortcomings, many of which are often positives but not in this crisis. Capitalism like socialism is not pleasant in extremis and in extremis is little more than fascism. Trump? I'd see him as the above sometime shortcomings within US culture mixed with the same shortcomings within capitalism make someone like Trump and his support base not so surprising and almost inevitable. Much like some aspects of Russian culture can beget a Putin, or how some African and Middle Eastern cultures beget hard men at the top of a hierarchy. Or indeed how Irish middle of the road be grand parish pump culture can give us middle of the road be grand parish pump politicians. A fairly good gauge of a culture can be made from the choices it makes to lead it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #37
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    biko wrote: »
    This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

    Swedish society is incredibly isolated to begin with, they already were practicing social distancing as a culture so theres far less policing required or neccessary as compared to other countries


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    #38
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    biko wrote: »
    This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.
    Sure enough, though unlike the US, Europe is still a very loose conglomerate of autonomous states with often quite different cultures in some things.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sid waddell wrote: »
    You cannot understand what is happening in the US without understanding how rejection of science, rejection of expertise, rejection of reason and rejection of truth have become tribal identifiers for the cult of Trump and right-wing politics in general.

    https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957

    America landed people on the moon,was one of leading scientific and medical countries of the 20th century (and cultural with tv and internet)


    Its like watching the last days of rome,watching them seemingly implode


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    #40
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Bill Gates noted similar and how the American education system has gone from being one of the best to well not exactly great over the last thirty years.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #41
    Nigel Fairservice
    Registered Users, Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,187 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    biko wrote: »
    This is the same as Europe. While Denmark is in lock-down the Swedes go skiing in their mountains.

    I get where you're coming from but it's not quite comparing like with like. Sweden and Denmark are sovereign countries in a political union. States like New York and Pennsylvania are constituent parts of the same country. Germany is also a federal country and seems to have a unified response to the crisis. No waiting around for individual Landers to decide what to do or allowing them do different things.


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    #42
    lord quackinton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 352 ✭✭lord quackinton


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Bill Gates noted similar and how the American education system has gone from being one of the best to well not exactly great over the last thirty years.

    And whose fault is that
    Unions and who do they back, the democrats
    The democrats control New York Chicago most of California Detroit and Baltimore and most of the biggest urban areas in America
    Lay the blame where it belongs
    Nothing to do with trump


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bayman81 wrote: »
    Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

    Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

    If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.

    But you have no hurling,who wants life without that


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    #44
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Bayman81 wrote: »
    Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

    Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

    If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.
    What's any of this to do with the Trump regime's response to COVID-19?


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    #45
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    sid waddell wrote: »
    What's any of this to do with the Trump regime's response to COVID-19?

    Apparently it's not permitted to have an opinion on Trumps previous dismissals, claims of hoaxes, claims it was "just a flu" and other madness unless you actively live in the United States.

    I also don't live in Russia so I guess I should keep my opinion of Putin, the psychopathic quasi dictator, to myself.


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    #46
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I like America for many reasons ,but I'm not blind to her shortcomings, many of which are often positives but not in this crisis. Capitalism like socialism is not pleasant in extremis and in extremis is little more than fascism. Trump? I'd see him as the above sometime shortcomings within US culture mixed with the same shortcomings within capitalism make someone like Trump and his support base not so surprising and almost inevitable. Much like some aspects of Russian culture can beget a Putin, or how some African and Middle Eastern cultures beget hard men at the top of a hierarchy. Or indeed how Irish middle of the road be grand parish pump culture can give us middle of the road be grand parish pump politicians. A fairly good gauge of a culture can be made from the choices it makes to lead it.

    Maybe so, but there's also different factors in play when it comes to voting and suppression issues. Also, the US technically elected Hilary Clinton by almost 3million more votes than Trump.


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    #47
    Agricola
    Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    It's incredible to watch a US president be forced into a path of action by others which is intended just to save American lives, when his natural inclination is to pretend the pandemic isnt happening and keep the economy going as normal.

    I used to think coronavirus would be the end of Trump because he'd never be able to bullshít his way out of the sheer death toll, but now Im not so sure. I think he'll turn the tables completely and try to paint himself as a war time leader who is bravely battling an invisible enemy. The yanks love a romantic war story and could well give him the boost he needs for re-election, just like Bush in 2004.


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    #48
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Apparently it's not permitted to have an opinion on Trumps previous dismissals, claims of hoaxes, claims it was "just a flu" and other madness unless you actively live in the United States.

    I also don't live in Russia so I guess I should keep my opinion of Putin, the psychopathic quasi dictator, to myself.

    It's quite the irony that the poster that was implying Europeans shouldn't be allowed have an opinion on America was himself ranting about Bolivia, Brazil, East Germany, the USSR and Vietnam in his previous post.

    A much travelled man - presuming he has lived in all of those countries, of course!


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    #49
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    Deaths per million population is the only number that really counts

    Yep, and the yanks are currently doing better than Ireland on present trajectory...

    Will this continue? Hard to say... but they do have excellent healthcare, if you can get into it.

    From what I've been hearing, everyone is being treated during the pandemic. So that's a big positive for them.


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    #50
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Agricola wrote: »
    It's incredible to watch a US president be forced into a path of action by others which is intended just to save American lives, when his natural inclination is to pretend the pandemic isnt happening and keep the economy going as normal.

    I used to think coronavirus would be the end of Trump because he'd never be able to bullshít his way out of the sheer death toll, but now Im not so sure. I think he'll turn the tables completely and try to paint himself as a war time leader who is bravely battling an invisible enemy. The yanks love a romantic war story and could well give him the boost he needs for re-election, just like Bush in 2004.

    Anything below 2.2 million deaths, and obviously the final death toll will be below that, and he and the evangelical cultists that believe he is "the chosen one" will be claiming he personally saved milllions of lives.


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    #51
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭threeball


    Bayman81 wrote: »
    Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

    Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

    If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.

    By what metric. I've spent plenty of time in the states and pretty much any of the main european countries are more attractive places to live than the states and thats before you talk about all the problems with health, the food they grow and rear etc.


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    #52
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    And whose fault is that
    Unions and who do they back, the democrats
    The democrats control New York Chicago most of California Detroit and Baltimore and most of the biggest urban areas in America
    Lay the blame where it belongs
    Nothing to do with trump
    Oh I never said it was and wouldn't. The fall of American education has been happening long before Trump.
    Bayman81 wrote: »
    Another whole thread of Europeans mouthing off how terrible the US is....

    Why is the US the no1 immigration target for people from all over the world then? I’d guess no one here has ever lived there.

    If you’re outside the bottom 20/30%, life in the states (any really) is considerably better than in any European country except for Switzerland maybe.
    The last part is highly debatable, but there are many reasons for the US being a target for immigration. It is a nation built on it since its birth. Bring me your huddled masses etc and this is known throughout the world. The American Dream(tm) is also known throughout the world and promoted overtly or not through the influence of American media, which is enormous(Understandably too. All nations are proud of themselves). It's also bounded to the south by much poorer nations which make up a fair chunk of the immigrant demographics. Mexico makes up the highest number of immigrants in latter years. The vast majority of her immigrant population come from poorer, often much poorer nations and have done for centuries. I mean the Irish American diaspora was at its height of influx when Ireland was fecked on a few levels(and America was ascendant or at the top).

    Never mind that being a top target for immigration doesn't always mean the country is on top for living standards, political freedoms and wealth. EG Russia is second to America. Germany is third, but that's on the back of the recent refugee crisis in Europe.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #53
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Maybe so, but there's also different factors in play when it comes to voting and suppression issues. Also, the US technically elected Hilary Clinton by almost 3million more votes than Trump.
    Sure S, but Bernie Sanders won more votes than her before she was put forward as the candidate. It's a complex thing, especially in such a huge nation with an amazing and fascinating array of sub cultures. That's the big problem with outsiders as far as "America" goes(and sometimes with Americans), it's a massive country with very complex social underpinnings. There is not one "America". That's a huge part of its charm and attraction too. It's also what can make it seem so internally contradictory too. Americans can be a bloody contrary bunch. :D Which is why I personally like them and the culture.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #54
    never_mind
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭never_mind


    Genuinely petrified for my elderly grandfather (who’s 94) and lives in Florida. This would kill him.


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    #55
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 85,371 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    never_mind wrote: »
    Genuinely petrified for my elderly grandfather (who’s 94) and lives in Florida. This would kill him.

    Tell him stay at home
    https://forumofgames.com/




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    #56
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    Bill Oakley retweeted this, to be honest I have very little sympathy for most of them taking a pay cut as it’s all for profit there

    https://twitter.com/cameronnbeach/status/1246183339364622336?s=21


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    #57
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Field east


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ

    The Donald said that he would look a bit uncomfortable meeting the range of foreign dignitaries out there with his mask on at his big desk in the Oval Office. I am not aware of any state leader , foreign dignatory or equivalent that have visited, has planned to visit Mr Trump - and for good reason. I would reckon that if the White House issued an invitation to any national leader from Putin , to Borris, our Leo, Macron , the Ukraine Queen , and suchlike, that they would all accept BUT maybe LATER - we will see if sometime early next year might be a suitable time would more than likely be the response.
    So the reason he gave was a NON REASON.
    Has the man lost the ability to make his utterances in a logical , cohesive and connected manner. - maybe he never had the ability


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    #58
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭threeball


    Field east wrote: »
    The Donald said that he would look a bit uncomfortable meeting the range of foreign dignitaries out there with his mask on at his big desk in the Oval Office. I am not aware of any state leader , foreign dignatory or equivalent that have visited, has planned to visit Mr Trump - and for good reason. I would reckon that if the White House issued an invitation to any national leader from Putin , to Borris, our Leo, Macron , the Ukraine Queen , and suchlike, that they would all accept BUT maybe LATER - we will see if sometime early next year might be a suitable time would more than likely be the response.
    So the reason he gave was a NON REASON.
    Has the man lost the ability to make his utterances in a logical , cohesive and connected manner. - maybe he never had the ability

    The reality is he doesnt want to be photographed in a mask. It would hurt his tough guy image and put paid to his claims that this will be over soon. He wants sports back up and running, he'll be lucky if the NFL gets up and running in September, thats the reality.

    I think by then he'll be sick of the whole thing. I wouldnt put it past him to bail at the last minute and leave the republicans without a candidate. Can anyone really see him still doing press conferences on this in july.


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    #59
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Stacksofwacks wrote:
    Trump just said at the latest briefing.. you guys should probably wear masks but I wont be wearing a mask..at what stage does this go beyond a black comedy, 1500 dead in the last 24 hours and this is what he has to say for himself..Jesus Christ


    Narcissists don't truly care for others, a mask would probably taint his amazing looks


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    #60
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Yep it's total narcissism and self importance on display there. He had to big himself up to make him feel more important than anyone else, as if he's exceptional and the rules or standards apply to everyone else except him. He believes he is far above anyone else, knows more than anyone, is untouchable. He's clearly not a healthy, well adjusted or intelligent individual. Let's hope the pendulum swings hard the other way this November.


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    #61
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Stateofyou wrote:
    Yep it's total narcissism and self importance on display there. He had to big himself up to make him feel more important than anyone else, as if he's exceptional and the rules or standards apply to everyone else except him. He believes he is far above anyone else, knows more than anyone, is untouchable. He's clearly not a healthy, well adjusted or intelligent individual. Let's hope the pendulum swings hard the other way this November.


    I believe this man's a cockroach, I'm still expecting him to be in power next year


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