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The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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    #2042
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    If we follow the saying, judge me on my actions and not my words, then I fear that Johnson will be in a lot worse condition than the release from No.10 has stated. The lack of concern he and others in the UK showed during the spread of the virus and the utter lack of distancing he himself adhered to, it was only a matter of time before someone high profile was going to get very ill or worse. Let's hope he get the treatment he needs to recover, like all others in hospitals all around the world right now.


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    #2043
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    AllForIt wrote: »
    One can almost taste the palpable wish that some remainers think this crisis is going to take down the UK Gov and will change everything, including Brexit.

    Last week a Labour journalist, Kevin McGuire called for another election soon. lol


    Absolutely noting is going to change, especially not a change to a socialist led government.
    I wouldn't bet the house on that mate


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    #2044
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    A helpful article on how the confirmed cases and hospital admissions are levelling off and when we are likely to see deaths do the same.


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    #2045
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,498 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    theological wrote: »
    A helpful article on how the confirmed cases and hospital admissions are levelling off and when we are likely to see deaths do the same.

    So an article that backs up that the government were wrong to delay lockdown as they did.

    How many people have gotten sick, and died, because of their refusal to look beyond their own belief?


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    #2046
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Why aren't all deaths from the virus recorded as numbers are way off....


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    #2047
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    AllGunsBlazing wrote: »
    Scary enough job to be doing right now. They'd come across a lot of potential carriers during the course of a day.

    Were they not one of the first people who tested positive in UK?
    At a London transport convention?
    At the time I was wondering if it was one of the bus drivers from the horsemen buses that transported the first people to Wirral.


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    #2048
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Brexit Schmexit. Nobody really gives a crap about Brexit right now. There is a thread there in the IMHO forum that used to be very active and nobody posts in it at all the last week or more.

    UK can have whatever government they like. Preferably not populated by thicks, as the current one appears to be.

    Maybe the fact that the nhs - greatest health service in the world apparently - is only hanging together by the flimsiest of threads because of the critical and invaluable input of immigrants might cause a bit of a rethink after this. But i wouldn't bet my shirt on that tbh.


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    #2049
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    theological wrote: »
    A helpful article on how the confirmed cases and hospital admissions are levelling off and when we are likely to see deaths do the same.

    There were 6k new infected yestetday, tell me again its leveling off


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    #2050
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    theological wrote: »
    A helpful article on how the confirmed cases and hospital admissions are levelling off and when we are likely to see deaths do the same.

    I am sure that the Government will be proud that their State TV counterparts have done what their paymasters have asked them to do with this. I am also sure they are proud of the fact they've used small charts with scales that mean even increases in hundreds and low thousands barely register.

    Saying the number of new cases has slowed the day after that they've had a record number of cases is quite amusing, especially when they're still testing well under 10,000 people a day, but must serve that agenda.

    Then they pick a few regions, rather than them all for the number of people in a hospital graph and use a tiny image with little distance between the 1,000 and 10,000 mark that an increase of hundreds or even a thousand makes little difference.

    BBC Graph
    508499.gif

    Official Graph
    508497.png


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    #2051
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    VinLieger wrote: »
    There were 6k new infected yestetday, tell me again its leveling off

    This is the scary part of the article
    In terms of numbers, what matters "is the overall trend, rather than the day-to-day figures", says James Gill, a lecturer at Warwick Medical School. That trend is a worrying one: if it continued, we would expect to see more than 1,000 deaths a day very soon and 2,000 a day later this week.

    That could put the UK death figures peaking at over twice as high as Italy and Spain's worst days for loss of life which is shocking and there surely must be a reason for this?

    Can those apologists for the British government articulate the reason that the British death figures going as high as that and what makes Britain different to other European countries who are yet to break the 1,00 deaths barrier?

    Since you are saying that it is nothing to do with the Government and their strategy has been perfect, then it must surely be down to something that is unique to the UK that means they are just unlucky rather than incompetent?


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    #2052
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,498 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Going to be a bit controversial here, and this is not meant in anyway against people personally or to do with nationality, but IMO it actually requires the likes of Johnson or Trump or Ballisrio to get this virus and die.

    Only then may the spell be broken. Same with the likes of a few of the pastors in the US who are currently telling their congregation not to worry because Jesus.

    Hancock coming back so quick merely lets those that think this is nothing to feel vindicated.

    Suddenly it wouldn't be just abstract numbers on a graph, just another number on a daily briefing.


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    #2053
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    In a counterintuitive way it's not really bad news if the number of cases goes up. That is, once it indicates that testing measures are becoming more efficient - thats the critical bit.


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    #2054
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    devnull wrote: »
    I am sure that the Government will be proud that their State TV counterparts have done what their paymasters have asked them to do with this. I am also sure they are proud of the fact they've used small charts with scales that mean even increases in hundreds and low thousands barely register.

    Saying the number of new cases has slowed the day after that they've had a record number of cases is quite amusing, especially when they're still testing well under 10,000 people a day, but must serve that agenda.

    Then they pick a few regions, rather than them all for the number of people in a hospital graph and use a tiny image with little distance between the 1,000 and 10,000 mark that an increase of hundreds or even a thousand makes little difference.

    BBC Graph
    508499.gif

    Official Graph
    508497.png

    Isn't one graph cumulative and the other graph daily?


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    #2055
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Nothing about that bbc graph looks to be actually plateauing to me.


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    #2056
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,119 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I'm astounded by 2 things.

    1. You really think noone caress about Brexit anymore, when the trade deals haven't even been done; so it's not really over, is it?

    2. You say the UK can have whatever Gov they like when in the same sentence you give your appraisal of the current Gov that you personally don't desire.
    Maybe the British electorate should check in with you before casting their vote.

    Try to make some sense man.

    Hi.

    1) Trade deals were not going to be done by end of year anyway. UK are out of the EU. They just hasn't been any noticeable changes because of the transition period. But the default (i.e. what will automatically happen if nothing else is done) is that they will exit at the end of the transition period. I wouldn't envision that Brexit could even be theoretically be "reversed" or "stopped" as you might imagine it.


    2) I don't care what flavour of government the UK has. However, it is currently headed with buffons and idiots. Now, I am not assuming that all Tory politicians are like that. But maybe they are. Nor am I assuming that all Labour or Lib Dem politicians all gobshites.

    Does that make sense now, or should I try again using even smaller words?

    I am also interested in your negative use of the word "socialism". Do I take it then that you'd be in favour of the NHS being privatized? That is interesting because other UK government supporters on here seem to hold the NHS dear to them

    Perhaps you saw some facebook rants from someone moaning about socialists and hippies and decided that socialist was a bad word, without understanding what it means?


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    #2057
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,119 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Maybe the fact that the nhs - greatest health service in the world apparently - is only hanging together by the flimsiest of threads because of the critical and invaluable input of immigrants might cause a bit of a rethink after this. But i wouldn't bet my shirt on that tbh.


    It's equally as likely there'd be a backlash and the finger would be pointed at them.

    I saw some headlines in the UK papers blaming the WHO for the spread of the virus. Saying the WHO kept things quiet on purpose................not mentioning at all that the WHO were shouting from the rooftops at the UK to grasp the seriousness of the situation and to start containing and testing for weeks before they did.


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    #2058
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    I saw some headlines in the UK papers blaming the WHO for the spread of the virus. Saying the WHO kept things quiet on purpose................not mentioning at all that the WHO were shouting from the rooftops at the UK to grasp the seriousness of the situation and to start containing and testing for weeks before they did.

    To borrow another posters previous remarks:

    Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.


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    #2059
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    devnull wrote: »
    I am sure that the Government will be proud that their State TV counterparts have done what their paymasters have asked them to do with this. I am also sure they are proud of the fact they've used small charts with scales that mean even increases in hundreds and low thousands barely register.

    Saying the number of new cases has slowed the day after that they've had a record number of cases is quite amusing, especially when they're still testing well under 10,000 people a day, but must serve that agenda.

    Then they pick a few regions, rather than them all for the number of people in a hospital graph and use a tiny image with little distance between the 1,000 and 10,000 mark that an increase of hundreds or even a thousand makes little difference.

    BBC Graph
    508499.gif

    Official Graph
    508497.png

    Good job that the BBC were not linking to those original charts in their articles or live news feed as that would completely ruin your conspiracy theory wouldn't it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52171176/page/4


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    #2060
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    It's equally as likely there'd be a backlash and the finger would be pointed at them.

    You mean, like this. A midwife died yesterday as well as a nurse in Liverpool.

    https://twitter.com/steveplrose/status/1246556395752873986?s=20


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    #2061
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    devnull as a moderator you really need to take more care of your facts.


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    #2062
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,119 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    You mean, like this. A midwife died yesterday as well as a nurse in Liverpool.

    https://twitter.com/steveplrose/status/1246556395752873986?s=20


    Nasty nasty people over there. I posted back earlier on the thread whether the immigrant NHS workers would go home to where they are actually appreciated.

    (FYI, I don't see anything in that brief article to say that lady was an immigrant. I'd assume she isn't and was British. I'd say it's more likely that your man is going on about Pakistan because it's the only Muslim country he can think of.


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    #2063
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    robinph wrote: »
    Good job that the BBC were not linking to those original charts in their articles or live news feed as that would completely ruin your conspiracy theory wouldn't it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52171176/page/4

    So if they did have the original charts, what was their motivation in not using the original charts and instead using a chart in a much smaller size with a scale made it hard to observe increases of hundreds or thousands in hospital?

    Could it be that if the original standard scale chart was reproduced, then it would be contrary to the narrative that the article was trying to push so therefore a smaller chart with a logarithmic scale that did fit the narrative by obfuscating the increase was used instead?


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    #2064
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    We don't want your help with ventilators but we want you to help get our people back to Blighty...

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1246795565914107906


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    #2065
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    devnull wrote: »
    Could it be that if the original standard scale chart was reproduced, then it would be contrary to the narrative that the article was trying to push so therefore a smaller chart with a logarithmic scale that did fit the narrative by obfuscating the increase was used instead?

    Erm, yes. Well apart from the "obfuscating" part. They used the correct type of chart for what the article was about.

    They have shown plenty of articles using both log scales and standard scales, you use one type to show one thing and another to show another thing. Most charts that people are linking to in this and any other thread use log scales though as the numbers become so huge it's pretty pointless to not use log after a while as you just end up with a vertical line on the far right.

    You need to find another conspiracy, this isn't it.


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    #2066
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Nasty nasty people over there. I posted back earlier on the thread whether the immigrant NHS workers would go home to where they are actually appreciated.

    (FYI, I don't see anything in that brief article to say that lady was an immigrant. I'd assume she isn't and was British. I'd say it's more likely that your man is going on about Pakistan because it's the only Muslim country he can think of.

    She may well have been born in the UK, actually very likely, and the point about the annual leave is bogus too - they were advised to take annual leave to keep them from being burnt out. It's mere hateful spite and there's sadly a lot of it about.


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    #2067
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    We don't want your help with ventilators but we want you to help get our people back to Blighty...

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1246795565914107906

    BoJo's priority has been to distance the UK from any EU backed measures as it would make Mr. Brexit look weak.

    And look where he ended up.


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    #2068
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    robinph wrote: »
    Erm, yes. Well apart from the "obfuscating" part. They used the correct type of chart for what the article was about.

    I notice that you didn't answer the other part of my question about the fact why, if the BBC had the original standard scale charts, which you have backed up with a link, did they not use the original charts and instead using a logarithmic chart in a much smaller size with a scale that made it hard to observe increases of hundreds or thousands in hospital?

    They seemed to use similar deaths and cases charts to those which were used in the UK press conference, that fitted their narrative to a degree, but the only one chart that they decided not to reproduce similarly was the one that didn't fit the narrative of the story. Was this just a co-incidence, or was this a decision that was made editorially because the original would not fit the article narrative, so it had to be changed?

    I'm not saying there's anything unusual with ensuring that graphics and the data being presented fit a chosen narrative, the tabloid press and the likes of the Express and Daily Mail do it all of the time as do those who are trying to write persuasively.
    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    devnull as a moderator you really need to take more care of your facts.

    I'm not a moderator of the coronavirus forum, I'm just a regular user of the forum posting my opinion.

    I appreciate that different people see things different ways and absolutely they have a right to do so and air their views, just, as I do, it's obvious that in a forum with as many users of this not everyone is going to agree so there's always going to be a bit of debate, disagreement and different takes on things.


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    #2069
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    devnull wrote: »
    Does anyone else think it's highly ironic that the Daily Mail has a spread such as that with one of the headlines being about 'the trail of misinformation' etc?

    I mean, that's something they'd never be guilty of themselves, right? ;)

    BCWsnw3.png


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    #2070
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    easypazz wrote: »
    BoJo's priority has been to distance the UK from any EU backed measures as it would make Mr. Brexit look weak.

    And look where he ended up.

    Comes across that way doesn't it.

    The fact that they're still going on about not extending the transition period is madness to me. They need to focus on dealing with this crisis, domestic policy and sorting the country out after this first.

    The UK Economy is already going to be fragile after this, having taken a big big shock from coronavirus, to have another one so soon is sheer lunacy. The government simply don't need the distraction from the virus.

    Too much politics is being played in the UK really since this whole thing broke out rather than focusing on whats important. The whole saga with Johnson using the crisis to have a dig at Sadiq Khan was pathetic too.


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    #2071
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    devnull wrote: »
    I notice that you didn't answer the other part of my question about the fact why, if the BBC had the original standard scale charts, which you have backed up with a link, did they not use the original charts and instead using a logarithmic chart in a much smaller size with a scale that made it hard to observe increases of hundreds or thousands in hospital?

    Well you answered it yourself. They used the chart that was required to show what they were talking about in that article. That's not a conspiracy.

    Why would they show a chart with a couple of big lines on the far right if they are taking about the cases slowing down, equally why would they show a chart with a curve flattening out if they were talking about big increases in numbers.

    You are looking for a conspiracy where none exists. They are just showing the correct chart for what they are talking about at the time and both styles of chart are shown in various articles throughout each day.

    Edit: Found the article that used the chart that you have such a problem with. That chart was specifically to show the change in rate of infections between London and other regions and that the Midlands and North West were increasing more than London. They made no comment about the other regions of South West/ East which are on a lower number and were not relevant to the point they were making.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52133054
    These figures for England mask regional variation: the number of people in hospital with Covid-19 in London has started to plateau, but has been growing in the Midlands and the North West in recent days.
    Seems like they used the correct chart, the correct scale and removed the irrelevant data to their point that certain regions are getting worse and London is currently reducing their rate of infection.


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