Poppy

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:10pm

markodaly wrote: »

Ah so you don't believe in freedom of choice, conscience, and expression. It is a free country Frankie, whether you like it or not. To quote you back..

.

You just excercised the right to criticise what SF did in a graveyard, and then tried to take that right (to criticise) away from me.

Self serving Flip Flop? Or just abject failure of logic?

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:11pm

[QUOTE=FrancieBrady;108642159

Yes, it is my belief, and this is a discussion forum. You wouldn't be trying to silence me by any chance?:D[/QUOTE]

As I already mentioned, you are now, two years running the most prolific poster in these poppy threads. No one is trying to silence you, they are however calling you out on double standards, hypocrisy and intolerance.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:13pm

markodaly wrote: »

Just happened to be an anniversary of the massacre, he was the real victim in all this.

Kingsmill bread is available for sale 365 days of the year. I have a loaf of it here in my bread bin right now.

I didn't say anything about him being the real 'victim'. Are you getting that desperate?

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:13pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just excercised the right to criticise what SF did in a graveyard, and then tried to take that right (to criticise) away from me.

How am I taking that right away from you? I am not a mod, so I am can't ban you, but I will call you out on your blatant double standards and goalpost shifting.
There is a difference you know.

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-11-2018 2:15pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't believe people who support the wearing of poppies here do it to solely to remember. A co-incidence that they are also notable defenders of the BA here? Nope.

And again this is your problem, you are taking your beliefs and attempting to state them as facts.

It is also support for the BA, if you pay the RBL. Fact.

Nooe, again it's your belief.

As I said very clearly at the time, if he did it deliberately to hurt the survivors of a massacre I have always condemned, then HE DESERVES JAIL TIME.

It's ibvious to everyone but hardline republicans like yourself that he did it on purpose.

As I argued, there was simply no evidence to suggest that a man who had never before engaged in this kind of taunting suddenly decided to, 20 years after the event.
The evidence pointed to him engaging in another innocuous silly joke, that he is known for.

Yeah, hilarious im sure for the families involved

Yes, it is my belief, and this is a discussion forum. You wouldn't be trying to silence me by any chance?:D

Ah not this old chestnut again :rolleyes:

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:17pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kingsmill bread is available for sale 365 days of the year. I have a loaf of it here in my bread bin right now.

I didn't say anything about him being the real 'victim'. Are you getting that desperate?

Sigh, the fact he made the 'joke' on the weekend of the 30th anniversary seemed to be quite a coincidence.

Regardless, the fact SF did not immediately sack him, a decision you stood by was most galling. It took them about a week to do the honorable thing, a decision you also lamented which you described as 'the whingers won"

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:18pm

markodaly wrote: »

How am I taking that right away from you? I am not a mod, so I am can't ban you, but I will call you out on your blatant double standards and goalpost shifting.
There is a difference you know.

I have no problem with respectful remembrance. None whatsoever and am on record saying that ALL communities must be allowed to remember their dead.

I do have a problem with publicly wearing a symbol that many find hurtful and offensive because it supports the actions of the BA past present and future.
I have exactly the same problem with the Easter Lily and would not wear it.

What double standards?

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:24pm

markodaly wrote: »

Sigh, the fact he made the 'joke' on the weekend of the 30th anniversary seemed to be quite a coincidence.

Regardless, the fact SF did not immediately sack him, a decision you stood by was most galling. It took them about a week to do the honorable thing, a decision you also lamented which you described as 'the whingers won"

He immediately, on realising the connotations of what he did, took the video down. And apologised.
Everyone, including myself, thought it was a stupid mistake on his part not to realise the connection given the day.

Why would SF immediately sack him without allowing him to explain?
When the controversy would not die down, he did the honourable thing and stepped aside while again apologising for what he claimed was a genuine lapse.

You can chose to believe him or not. But please do not infer that I would have defended him, had I believed he did it deliberately. That is completely wrong, in fairness.

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-11-2018 2:27pm

The whole northern Ireland troubles thing, while extremely tragic for those caught up in the terrorism, are, in the greater scheme of things, an almost insignificant matter, and no one should be influenced by them on the symbolism of wearing a poppy and remembering the millions who dies serving their countries. It displays no sense of proportion. And even a continually harmful, and problematic, attitude to relations on the island of Ireland.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:31pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no problem with respectful remembrance. None whatsoever and am on record saying that ALL communities must be allowed to remember their dead.

I do have a problem with publicly wearing a symbol that many find hurtful and offensive because it supports the actions of the BA past present and future.
I have exactly the same problem with the Easter Lily and would not wear it.

What double standards?

See in bold.

You do know the double standard is the fact that you have no problem with people commemorating a terrorist child killer while having a problem with some people wearing a Poppy.
You are the one who is trying to define how to remember and commemorate.

Thankfully we live in a free country where people can choose how to remember their dead in their own way, be it wearing a Poppy or going to a grave.

If it were up to you, you would ban the Poppy from being worn in public as if you were the Taliban.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:37pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He immediately, on realising the connotations of what he did, took the video down. And apologised.

Like a day later, even after it was pointed out to him that the 'joke' was not a joke?

Why would SF immediately sack him without allowing him to explain?

He was not asked to resign which is political speak for 'make the problem go away'. It was a cluster **** of epic proportions by SF leadership.

When the controversy would not die down, he did the honourable thing and stepped aside while again apologising for what he claimed was a genuine lapse.

It would not die down because of the way it was handled by SF.

You can chose to believe him or not. But please do not infer that I would have defended him, had I believed he did it deliberately. That is completely wrong, in fairness.

In fairness, your morals and motives change like the breeze. It does not appear to matter what the story is or what the facts are, but who the story is about. If its anyway to do with Irish Republicanism, you pin your colour to the mast and start digging that trench. It's plain for all to see.

Spook_ie · 16-11-2018 2:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is a bit like trying to validate the wearing of a swastika because you personally like the shape it makes.

A poppy bought from the RBL supports the actions of the BA, past present and future.
There is no ambiguity. It is what it is.

And it is getting bigger and more demonstrative and the poppy fascists are getting louder.

The real question, because I don't think people have spotted your caveat, is what do you think about the poppy as a symbol.

i.e if someone had a non BL poppy as a sign of remembrance

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:41pm

markodaly wrote: »

See in bold.

You do know the double standard is the fact that you have no problem with people commemorating a terrorist child killer while having a problem with some people wearing a Poppy.
You are the one who is trying to define how to remember and commemorate.

Thankfully we live in a free country where people can choose how to remember their dead in their own way, be it wearing a Poppy or going to a grave.

If it were up to you, you would ban the Poppy from being worn in public as if you were the Taliban.

They were not, I can assure you, commemorating a 'terrorist child killer'. That is your assessment of his value.

If it is Talibanesque to ban hurtful divisive public demonstrations of support for an army that did much damage here, then so be it. As I have repeatedly said, I would apply it equally to those on the Irish side doing the same.

There are plenty of ways to respectfully remember your dead without doing that. Graveside ceremonies being one, or ceremonies at monuments.

Marching where you know it will taunt and enflame, wearing symbols in public, deliberately taunting victims are all off limits for me.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were not, I can assure you, commemorating a 'terrorist child killer'. That is your assessment of his value.

Did his bomb not kill children? Then he is a terrorist child killer. Simples!

If it is Talibanesque to ban hurtful divisive public demonstrations of support for an army that did much damage here, then so be it.

Well, at least you are upfront about it.:)

Although it makes a mockery of your claim to be an Irish Republican of any shade, seeing as that our constitution makes clear provisions in regards freedom of expression, which includes the Poppy.

Maybe we should just ignore the last 5 constitutional referendums while we are at it Francie, seeing as they may have hurt people along the way. Welcome to 1970's Ireland. lol

There are plenty of ways to respectfully remember your dead without doing that.

Ah, but that is the beauty of living in a free country. People can choose all types of ways to remember their own dead, including wearing a Poppy if they wish. You are not the arbitrator on what is or is not an acceptable method to remember the dead, thankfully. The individual themselves can decide that.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:50pm

markodaly wrote: »

Like a day later, even after it was pointed out to him that the 'joke' was not a joke?

He was not asked to resign which is political speak for 'make the problem go away'. It was a cluster **** of epic proportions by SF leadership.

It would not die down because of the way it was handled by SF.

In fairness, your morals and motives change like the breeze. It does not appear to matter what the story is or what the facts are, but who the story is about. If its anyway to do with Irish Republicanism, you pin your colour to the mast and start digging that trench. It's plain for all to see.

Can you back up what you are claiming here?

I said from the get go that he made an incredibly stupid lapse of judgement not realising the significance of the day and apologised immediately he did realise.
Any other day, had he decided to do that silly joke (his forte, it seems) it would have no significance. Co-incidence does happen and this as far as I can tell (based on his record of not taunting victims ever) was one.

The 'he's a republican - he must have evil intent - doesn't work for me. Clearly does for some on this site, because everything they do is evil or wrong. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:51pm

markodaly wrote: »

Did his bomb not kill children? Then he is a terrorist child killer. Simples!

Well, at least you are upfront about it.:)

Although it makes a mockery of your claim to be an Irish Republican of any shade, seeing as that our constitution makes clear provisions in regards freedom of expression, which includes the Poppy.

Maybe we should just ignore the last 5 constitutional referendums while we are at it Francie, seeing as they may have hurt people along the way. Welcome to 1970's Ireland. lol

Ah, but that is the beauty of living in a free country. People can choose all types of ways to remember their own dead, including wearing a Poppy if they wish. You are not the arbitrator on what is or is not an acceptable method to remember the dead, thankfully. The individual themselves can decide that.

You are 'free' to do it, but you are NOT free from criticism for doing it.

twinytwo · 16-11-2018 2:52pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The whole northern Ireland troubles thing, while extremely tragic for those caught up in the terrorism, are, in the greater scheme of things, an almost insignificant matter, and no one should be influenced by them on the symbolism of wearing a poppy and remembering the millions who dies serving their countries. It displays no sense of proportion. And even a continually harmful, and problematic, attitude to relations on the island of Ireland.

That's all well and good, remember the dead.

But then why are all innocents killed as part of the the numerous war crimes committed (not just in NI)never remembered/referenced?

It is always for the soldiers that died in battle?

ohnonotgmail · 16-11-2018 2:52pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you back up what you are claiming here?

I said from the get go that he made an incredibly stupid lapse of judgement not realising the significance of the day and apologised immediately he did realise.
Any other day, had he decided to do that silly joke (his forte, it seems) it would have no significance. Co-incidence does happen and this as far as I can tell (based on his record of not taunting victims ever) was one.

The 'he's a republican - he must have evil intent - doesn't work for me. Clearly does for some on this site, because everything they do is evil or wrong. :rolleyes:

Neither does "He's a republican so i will assume he doesn't have evil intent".

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 2:58pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Neither does "He's a republican so i will assume he doesn't have evil intent".

Well, I looked for evidence of 'evil intent' in that case and could not find anything to show why he had suddenly, 20 years after the end of the conflict and 40 years after the event itself, suddenly decided to have a pop at the victims.
I looked at his history of rather silly video making and saw it in that context. A silly video about a 'where's the bread' thing that some find funny. That happened to co-incide with an anniversary.
We use Kingsmill bread here all the time, as we live on the border, and never have I associated it with the massacre tbh.

markodaly · 16-11-2018 2:58pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are 'free' to do it, but you are NOT free from criticism for doing it.

Did I ever say you are not free to criticise?

It is you that wants to ban this symbol from the public display like Ireland was some theocracy or dictatorship. That I dare say is much much more than mere criticism. That my friend goes against bunreacht na heireann.

You are of course free to have this belief but in return, we can rightly call you out for being a reactionary autocratic zealot.

ohnonotgmail · 16-11-2018 2:59pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, I looked for evidence of 'evil intent' in that case and could not find anything to show why he had suddenly, 20 years after the end of the conflict and 40 years after the event itself, suddenly decided to have a pop at the victims.
I looked at his history of rather silly video making and saw it in that context. A silly video about a 'where's the bread' thing that some find funny. That happened to co-incide with an anniversary.
We use Kingsmill bread here all the time, as we live on the border, and never have I associated it with the massacre tbh.

Just an unfortunate coincidence i'm sure.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 3:02pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Just an unfortunate coincidence i'm sure.

They do happen and will happen again. He should have been much more careful as a public rep and paid the price for it, himself.

Edward M · 16-11-2018 11:14pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to respect my right, as a sovereign equal member of this state, to criticise something that I feel requires criticism.
'A lot of people' are living in cuckoo land if they think that publicly and demonstratively supporting and cheering an army that did so much damage in this state is not going to draw criticism.

This post is so full of crap it reeks.
A sovereign equal member?
Do you know what sovereign even means?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sovereign

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 11:23pm

Edward M wrote: »

This post is so full of crap it reeks.
A sovereign equal member?
Do you know what sovereign even means?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sovereign

Check out the adjectives in your link there Edward.

Edward M · 16-11-2018 11:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Check out the adjectives in your link there Edward.

Read it all. Knew it anyway.
Reading the posts on here and on other threads leads me to a conclusion of posts ate up with a sense of their own importance, a sort of sovereign approach of dictat rather than aceeptance of an other or opposing opinion as being acceptable.
Your use of the word neanderthal earlier gave clue to it.
Sorry now, but appreciation of posts going down.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2018 11:53pm

Edward M wrote: »

Read it all. Knew it anyway.

You knew, but still posted???

Reading the posts on here and on other threads leads me to a conclusion of posts ate up with a sense of their own importance, a sort of sovereign approach of dictat rather than aceeptance of an other or opposing opinion as being acceptable.
Your use of the word neanderthal earlier gave clue to it.
Sorry now, but appreciation of posts going down.

I accept all opinions, respect the ones given respectfully but reserve the right on a discussion forum to counter that opinion.

Poppy

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