Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

markpb · 26-03-2014 9:32pm

handtight wrote: »

Instead of upgrading CAB to full airport, why not operate as T3 for Dublin Airport? On this basis could be used for regional traffic to UK/Europe or as a dedicated facility for Ryanair or Stobart Air. Passengers can be bused quickly between the two and long term a rail link could be considered.

Why? It's not good for passengers, it makes connections difficult, it makes providing high capacity public transport to the airport difficult, it forces airlines to split to their staff or hire more, it reduces any economies of scale that the airport might enjoy and, has been pointed out, runs the risk of stalling badly when it's neighbours object.

Strumms · 26-03-2014 10:06pm

Just because the airport has a runway it still lacks so much of the civil airport infrastructure compared to that already in place at DUB. It would be cost prohibitive compared to expanding at DUB.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 27-03-2014 9:40pm

handtight wrote: »

Final point, Belfast supports two airports and competition between them helps drive down costs.

The two Belfast airports combined handle less than a third of Dublin's traffic. Seriously, thinking folk in Belfast know that the two airport model is costing them.

And if they wanted evidence of that, they only need to look at the traffic volumes in DUB and weep.

basill · 27-03-2014 10:19pm

If the A330 a/c has bump thrust then this is what the thrust levers look like.

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/Zab999/ThrustBump.jpg

It is selected by pushing the thrust levers to the toga position and pushing at least one of the red bump buttons that hide under guarded covers. A "B" will appear in green above the N1. From memory it gives about another 2.5% increase in thrust. Where its available there are specific performance charts for the relevant runways that our engineers have prepared. Just to be clear it isn't just selected willy nilly.

From memory its available on one of the 200s and the 300s.

cgcsb · 07-05-2014 1:06pm

The two airport model is not a good thing for Belfast, Dublin Airport is in fact reporting increasing patronage from Northern Ireland, as neither of the 2 Belfast airports have significant enough mass to attract anything more than internal and sun holiday flights. at present Growth, I can see DUB passing 23.5mil by 2016. Hopefully when that time comes DAA will be ready to build.

owenc · 07-05-2014 1:12pm

Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.

owenc · 07-05-2014 1:13pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

The two Belfast airports combined handle less than a third of Dublin's traffic. Seriously, thinking folk in Belfast know that the two airport model is costing them.

And if they wanted evidence of that, they only need to look at the traffic volumes in DUB and weep.

Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.

daithi84 · 07-05-2014 1:24pm

What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!

relaxed · 07-05-2014 2:07pm

owenc wrote: »

Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.

If there is ever a motorway to Letterkenny then the difference between Belfast and Dublin becomes negligible as the greater frequency of flights, destinations, options and connections will make the extra 45 minutes in the car worth it.

Jamie2k9 · 07-05-2014 2:15pm

relaxed wrote: »

If there is ever a motorway to Letterkenny then the difference between Belfast and Dublin becomes negligible as the greater frequency of flights, destinations, options and connections will make the extra 45 minutes in the car worth it.

The only road developments in that region is the N2/A2 towards Derry and when that's build the North West will be much closer to DUB than it currently is.

owenc · 07-05-2014 3:39pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The only road developments in that region is the N2/A2 towards Derry and when that's build the North West will be much closer to DUB than it currently is.

I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

Cookiemunster · 07-05-2014 4:10pm

owenc wrote: »

Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.

owenc wrote: »

Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.

owenc wrote: »

I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

I think you need to read through this thread again. I haven't seen anyone put down Belfast airport (although I'm not sure which one of the two you're referring to) or argue that Belfast shouldn't have any airport.
It has simply been pointed that having 2 small competing airports rather than one large airport is detrimental to Belfast. It means that it can't attract the large international carriers that a large airport like Dublin can.
This is simple economics.
Also this is a thread about DUB building a new runway when passenger numbers get above a certain level, therefore people are going to speculate about where / when these passengers will come from.

BonkeyDonker · 07-05-2014 5:31pm

daithi84 wrote: »

What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!

Dublin can in theory handle an A380 as it is - ok, not as efficiently as some other airports, but it can handle it. To handle it efficiently would require additional investment by the airport. But is there a proper business case for it?

At the moment it would only be Emirates operating one into Dublin, and I could see them going double daily before they send in an A380, as it allows more flexibility - especially useful for business and first class pax and additional freight capacity - a big plus out of Dublin apparently.

A similar comparison could be made with the number of B747,s that have visited Dublin over the years - Apart from Aer Lingus I cannot remember scheduled B747 flights to Dublin - even the smaller B777 were a rare sight.

owenc wrote: »

I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

That may be the case that you are happy to use Belfast - but look at the wider picture - these days people will fly from A)Where there are flights that they want to take, and

Where flights are cheaper. These days people will travel and extra hour or two to save money on most things, flights included. And with its larger population base Dublin can offer both a larger range of destinations, and higher passenger figures - driving down prices between airlines as they look for the passengers.

relaxed · 07-05-2014 5:36pm

owenc wrote: »

. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

Speak for yourself but I think most people will choose an airport that best suits their needs at a particular time, be it price, location, Flight departure times, parking, direct flight, whatever.

owenc · 07-05-2014 7:03pm

Actually naw they won't drive for three hours..

jamo2oo9 · 07-05-2014 7:15pm

I live in Louth which is half way between Dublin and Belfast give or take 20mins each way. We always opt for Dublin because Ryanair operates from there and they are cheap. In Belfast, they have easyJet but they don't offer a lot of destinations.

Residents living in Donegal area would most likely travel down to Dublin because they have a wide range of destinations available and it's probably more convenient for them as they would rather fly direct than two flight segments unless it's across the Atlantic.

Cookiemunster · 07-05-2014 7:41pm

owenc wrote: »

Actually naw they won't drive for three hours..

You do realise that people that live near Shannon regurlarly drive to Dublin because the destinations the want to go to are only served from there and not from Shannon? And at times it's actually cheaper even when you include petrol and parking. It's exactly the same thing when it comes to the choice of Belfact or Dublin.

Tenger · 07-05-2014 7:48pm

daithi84 wrote: »

What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!

Dublin does not needs a runway to handle A380's......as it is the B773's that currently operate from DUB do not need a longer runway as the current destinations do not require the full range of these aircraft.

In terms of future growth the current runway is fine for the EI A350's on order. However if DUB wanted routes to PEK, HKK or BKK then a longer runway would be needed.

cgcsb · 07-05-2014 9:28pm

owenc wrote: »

Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.

I haven't made a statement one way or the other as to what airport policy on the Island of Ireland should be, so on that basis I would say it is you who needs to get a grip.

If you're asking my opinion though, we should mimic the policy of other small nations, like the Netherlands, Denmark etc. small countries pick a central airport and develop it as the country's main international hub, with smaller airports in the regions catering for local demand to mostly European destinations, I feel this is how Ireland should proceed in it's transport policy.

owenc · 07-05-2014 9:33pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You do realise that people that live near Shannon regurlarly drive to Dublin because the destinations the want to go to are only served from there and not from Shannon? And at times it's actually cheaper even when you include petrol and parking. It's exactly the same thing when it comes to the choice of Belfact or Dublin.

But this is Northern Ireland not shannon.

relaxed · 07-05-2014 10:02pm

owenc wrote: »

But this is Northern Ireland not shannon.

Thanks for the geography lesson but it's irrelevant. People will choose the option that suits them best, and if a spin to Dublin from northern Ireland means a direct flight to x, y or z and a shorter and or cheaper overall journey time then a lot of people will choose that option.

Speak for yourself but don't think you represent everybody.

Strumms · 07-05-2014 10:06pm

It's about competition. Pure and simple. If BFS wants to market their airport to better suit the needs of their catchment area they need to be competitive enough to attract airlines and routes to keep people from going down the motorway to DUB. This is plainly not happening at the moment. Likewise DUB is a business and are doing a great job of attracting routes and passengers from all over the island. DUB does not owe, BFS, ORK, SNN or anyone any favours. Simple.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 07-05-2014 10:12pm

Tenger wrote: »

In terms of future growth the current runway is fine for the EI A350's on order. However if DUB wanted routes to PEK, HKK or BKK then a longer runway would be needed.

Isn't there also an issue around cargo loads, and the potential for cargo revenues?

I'd also just wonder about what might be termed the comparative analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_busiest_airports_by_international_passenger_traffic

Dublin is the 27th busiest international airport by international passenger traffic. Every other airport on that top thirty list has a runway of at least 3,000m. Some, like Munich, have a 4,000m runway.

I just can't shake that feeling that we might be missing something.

owenc · 07-05-2014 10:33pm

relaxed wrote: »

Thanks for the geography lesson but it's irrelevant. People will choose the option that suits them best, and if a spin to Dublin from northern Ireland means a direct flight to x, y or z and a shorter and or cheaper overall journey time then a lot of people will choose that option.

Speak for yourself but don't think you represent everybody.

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

galwayjohn89 · 07-05-2014 10:36pm

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

That's just not true. I know of people living in Belfast who have driven to Dublin to fly to Spain and in one case to London.

lord lucan · 07-05-2014 10:46pm

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

Over half a million from NI through DUB last year says otherwise,and not all longhaul.

Tenger · 07-05-2014 10:57pm

owenc wrote: »

......I will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

I corrected that statement for you.

billie1b · 07-05-2014 10:57pm

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

Thats a complete kack! I have boarded people from Northern Ireland onto flights to all over Europe, from as short as Manchester to as far the Canaries

kub · 07-05-2014 11:06pm

owenc wrote: »

But this is Northern Ireland not shannon.

Why no capital S for Shannon?

relaxed · 07-05-2014 11:15pm

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

Ok, I'll rise to it, can you please explain why that would be the case?

Bigcheeze · 07-05-2014 11:17pm

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

Funny I live 15 mins from dub but have driven to bfs for short haul flights a number of times because easy jet served a route on a day not served from dub.

Idbatterim · 08-05-2014 12:12am

anyone reckon flights to Vegas could be on the cards in the short to medium term? they fly from gatwick, heathrow and manchester (seasonly thomas cook and Virgin). If you did a low cost flight operation to there, imagine how much you could generate on baggage, wifi, food and alcohol...

L1011 · 08-05-2014 1:22am

owenc wrote: »

Its actually not irrelevant.

People here will NOT travel to Dublin for a flight unless it is international LONG HAUL

Completely and utterly untrue, though.

You do not equal everyone in Northern Ireland.

Richard · 08-05-2014 7:21am

MYOB wrote: »

Completely and utterly untrue, though.

You do not equal everyone in Northern Ireland.

For people in South Down there are better public transport links from Dublin Airport at certain times of the day than from Belfast International. Road links are very good these days too - High Quality Dual Carriageway/Motorway southwards whilst it's not so good going north.

owenc · 08-05-2014 8:17am

Vuzuggu wrote: »

That's just not true. I know of people living in Belfast who have driven to Dublin to fly to Spain and in one case to London.

Um.. I live over 60 MILES from Belfast.. How many times have I said that the se of NI is close to Dublin airport.

owenc · 08-05-2014 8:28am

Richard wrote: »

For people in South Down there are better public transport links from Dublin Airport at certain times of the day than from Belfast International. Road links are very good these days too - High Quality Dual Carriageway/Motorway southwards whilst it's not so good going north.

Exactly. This is what i've said and they seem to think i'm talking nonsense and that people from Country Antrim etc will be driving down to Dublin airport for a short haul flight.

I would've thought it would be pretty obvious that most people from NI are hardly going to drive all the way down there for a short haul flight. My aunt recently drove down for a flight to Dubai and said it was a killer.

owenc · 08-05-2014 8:30am

Exactly.

owenc · 08-05-2014 8:31am

lord lucan wrote: »

Over half a million from NI through DUB last year says otherwise,and not all longhaul.

Many of those customers will be repeat or even triple customers. Most of those customers will be flying long haul and a majority of those customers will be from County Down.

owenc · 08-05-2014 8:33am

relaxed wrote: »

Ok, I'll rise to it, can you please explain why that would be the case?

Well simply because its too far.

I only know of one person who has flown short haul from Dublin and she has said she will NEVER do it again. Really no one wants to sit in a car and drive constantly for over 3 hours to get a shorter flight. I don't think you realise how far Dublin airport actually is at over 160 miles..

billie1b · 08-05-2014 9:30am

owenc wrote: »

Well simply because its too far.

I only know of one person who has flown short haul from Dublin and she has said she will NEVER do it again. Really no one wants to sit in a car and drive constantly for over 3 hours to get a shorter flight. I don't think you realise how far Dublin airport actually is at over 160 miles..

Unfortunately figures say otherwise, with short haul routes being most popular

"Four locations

All the London airports combined make up 17% of overall trips by Northern Ireland residents using Dublin Airport in 2013.

Short-haul services to Britain and continental Europe account for six of the top 10 routes for Northern Ireland residents, with long-haul services to North America and the Middle East providing the remaining four locations in the top 10.

The UK is the most popular destination for Northern Ireland residents using Dublin Airport, as it accounted for 20% of overall traffic - equivalent to one in five flights - last year.

The United States was the second most popular destination for Northern Ireland residents flying from Dublin Airport last year, while Italy, Germany and France also featured in the top five."

Full link
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27050056

Maybe check your stats before you say no-one from NI will travel to Dublin except for long haul.

Tangey99 · 08-05-2014 1:03pm

I'm in Omagh

BFS is about 1hr 5 mins drive. BHD about 5 mins more

DUB is 1hr 45 mins.

So around 40 mins longer to get to the carpark than to either of the NI airports.

DUB car park cost about the same as the 3rd party car parks @ BFS. car park @BHD is a ripoff.

DUB flies many short haul routes that BFS/BHD does not.
For example EI flies to BOJ, there are no summer schedule flights to BOJ out of NI.

So for about £6-7 in fuel and 90 mins extra roundtrip travelling time, DUB offers me a whole host of destinations and pricings that NI does not.

I'm assuming the economics work similarly for most people in Western NI. Only the most myopic of people would rule out DUB as a viable option on the above basis.

owenc · 08-05-2014 2:02pm

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm in Omagh

BFS is about 1hr 5 mins drive. BHD about 5 mins more

DUB is 1hr 45 mins.

So around 40 mins longer to get to the carpark than to either of the NI airports.

DUB car park cost about the same as the 3rd party car parks @ BFS. car park @BHD is a ripoff.

DUB flies many short haul routes that BFS/BHD does not.
For example EI flies to BOJ, there are no summer schedule flights to BOJ out of NI.

So for about £6-7 in fuel and 90 mins extra roundtrip travelling time, DUB offers me a whole host of destinations and pricings that NI does not.

I'm assuming the economics work similarly for most people in Western NI. Only the most myopic of people would rule out DUB as a viable option on the above basis.

An hour and 45?! It says it will take 3 hours from my house!

Belfast is about 50 minutes from my house so you can see my argument.

L1011 · 08-05-2014 2:06pm

owenc wrote: »

An hour and 45?! It says it will take 3 hours from my house!

Belfast is about 50 minutes from my house so you can see my argument.

me me me me me me me - we already know YOU don't like using DUB; but the figures show plenty of others do.

owenc · 08-05-2014 2:09pm

But its not all about the south of Northern Ireland. I have already shown that we are quite a distance from that airport.

So there will be plenty who DO NOT use that airport.

Tangey99 · 08-05-2014 2:30pm

owenc wrote: »

But its not all about the south of Northern Ireland. I have already shown that we are quite a distance from that airport.

So there will be plenty who DO NOT use that airport.

What has this got to do with a 3rd runway at DUB Airport.

Its the traffic that DOES use that airport from NI, that is important to it.

This thread is about a 3rd runway @ Dublin. DuB needs to show certain numbers before that will be given the go-ahead.

A significant portion of that traffic comes from NI, for people who are either close enough timewise to be able to chose Dublin over NI without it being a significant difference, or who want to go to some of the many destinations not served by NI airports.

Clearly, for people who for example, live in Antrim town and who only ever want to go to places served by NI airports, there is no need to go to DUB.

Airports will always compete for Business. If you think BFS and BHD live in harmony, you are naive in the extreme. Both those are always looking to take business from the other. DUB is the same, and in fact even more so, as they have almost no political pressure trying to inhibit them from taking NI traffic.

It's business.

Tangey99 · 08-05-2014 2:35pm

owenc wrote: »

An hour and 45?! It says it will take 3 hours from my house!

Belfast is about 50 minutes from my house so you can see my argument.

No, your argument is that it only suits people in SE NI.

That argument is incorrect.

It suits me. I'm about as far west as NI goes. 40 mins isn't an issue.

for those in Enniskillen, BFS is 80 miles away. DUB is 100 Miles. Google maps puts the travelling time at 1:33 vers 2:01. i.e. 28 mins, and that's being very generous.

I note from some of your maps that you are in Ballycastle, i.e. just about as far North as the North gets.

Dublin isn't going to suit you.

Dublin isn't going to your Aunt. However for Dubai it still was her choice. The other option would be to fly from BHD/BFS to LHR and onwards, which would take at least as long, likely longer, involved two flights and the inherit missed connections risks that entails, and involve having to pay UK APD, suddenly DUB looked attractive afterall).

DUB airport is not setting its policy based on people living in the North Coast. BTW, BFS isn't setting its policies based on the North coast either. BFS and BHD are primarily targeting greater belfast. DUB is primarily targeting most of ROI. At 1h 30mins travelling time, DUB can also target Belfast, with attractive fairs and unique destinations.

relaxed · 08-05-2014 3:56pm

owenc wrote: »

But its not all about the south of Northern Ireland. I have already shown that we are quite a distance from that airport.

So there will be plenty who DO NOT use that airport.

No, your argument was that northern Ireland was not Shannon and that northern Ireland would not use Dublin except for long haul.

As if to imply there was some sort of difference in mentality or logic between airline passengers from northern Ireland to the Shannon catchment area.

owenc · 08-05-2014 5:03pm

relaxed wrote: »

No, your argument was that northern Ireland was not Shannon and that northern Ireland would not use Dublin except for long haul.

As if to imply there was some sort of difference in mentality or logic between airline passengers from northern Ireland to the Shannon catchment area.

Well there probably is but anyway.

Although I am basing it on my area which is miles and miles from Dublin.

relaxed · 08-05-2014 5:09pm

owenc wrote: »

Well there probably is but anyway.

Although I am basing it on my area which is miles and miles from Dublin.

Were you drinking and posting last night?

Because you have now changing it to "your area" rather than "Northern Ireland" which is a big difference as your area is apparently up at the tip top.

IrishAir98 · 08-05-2014 6:03pm

owenc wrote: »

But its not all about the south of Northern Ireland. I have already shown that we are quite a distance from that airport.

So there will be plenty who DO NOT use that airport.

You are by far the most idiotic person I've met on this website. You say that Northern Irish residents only use Dublin Airport for Long Haul and they only use BFS and BHD for short haul because Dublin is too far away? What kind of utter nonsense is going through your head?! I live in the most North-Western part of Donegal and I can safely say most of the people here will choose Dublin over Belfast any day. Even though it's an extra hours drive Dublin has a much more variety of destinations than any of the Belfast airports Short Haul and Long Haul.

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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