Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Dazler97

This is ridiculous now, the runway is due to be open by now, why so many hold backs, yes covid is effecting everything but there's no excuse

Dazler97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693660#Comment_117693660

Sorry off topic **I thought you only do weather kermit

Kermit.de.frog

I'm a frog of many talents 😜

I just have no sympathy for residents in this case because this runway was planned for decades. They knew full well before purchasing their homes this was coming down the tracks.

The notion we would have two runways and LESS capacity than at present is batsh*t crazy. As mentioned they may as well not open it at all to maintain current arrangements.

Dalton was saying the other day that the planned restrictions would have cost us millions of passengers in 2019.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693660#Comment_117693660

That shouldn’t mean aircraft using it right through the night.

why do you think that the proposed ‘third runway’ for LHR is causing such controversy.

Night bans are common on Airports all over the world.

it’s not a question of objecting to the runway per se, but common sense regarding its conditions of operation.

Thats a long way removed from ‘absurd’

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694047#Comment_117694047

No one is asking to use it all night.

Currently, one of the busiest time periods for the existing runway is 6-7am. As part of the planning permission for the new runway, the existing runway's hours of operation were cut, meaning both runways will begin at 7am.

That's the part people have trouble making sense of.

Noxegon

I sympathise with your position @Brendan Bendar.

Unfortunately Ireland's geographical position means that flights between 23:00-24:00 and 06:00-07:00 are critical for us.

I don't think you'll find many people objecting to a strict limit between midnight and 6:00am.

You might be interested to know that the limits in the big London airports are from 23:30-06:00, which are actually less restrictive than the current planning restriction at Dublin (23:00-07:00).

https://www.airportwatch.org.uk/uk-airports/gatwick-airport-2/night-flights-at-gatwick/

Blut2

Someone who bought a house within the last 60 odd years (ie effectively everyone) near to Dublin airport complaining about airplane noise would be almost hilarious if it wasn't so problematic for the country. If you buy a house next to an airport then yes you will have airplane noise. This should be a shock to nobody.

And as other posters have pointed out this noise is actually decreasing as the years go by, as engine technology improves.

We're an island nation on the periphery of Europe, entirely economically dependent on trade and connection with both the US and Europe. Dublin airport is our primary link to the outside world and its absolutely vital it gets expanded on/improved in any way it can be.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694478#Comment_117694478

Appreciate that, and I wouldn’t be overly concerned about the 0600-2359 either.

what would concern me though was the implication by some posters and vested interests that we need to ‘maximise’ rwy use.

That to me means no restrictions, or very very few.

Apologies if I took that up wrongly, and I understand how the 06-2359 limits could squeeze another rotation from an aircraft.

The Covid experience has proved that there are very powerful and persistent lobby groups out there, who wouldn’t put the folk living in the flightpaths very high on the priority list if they could squeeze an extra rotation out of the schedule.

Sleep well

Nijmegen

NIMBYs gonna NIMBY. I moved into a new build estate under the current flight path and sure enough, the residents Facebook group had people discussing the ways they can object to the planning conditions and appeals of Dublin airport and ways they can seek to further restrict aircraft movement over their heads. It's gas.

L1011

Beechwoodspark is now banned from further posting in this thread

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695648#Comment_117695648

Yeah, presume you are near the Portmarnock Dart Stn.?

It might be gas, but no harm in ensuring you are not walked on and not buried by vested interest.

Its a two way thing and just because one is under the flight path doesn’t mean the Airport and those using it can do what they like.

HTCOne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693327#Comment_117693327

I would say the aircraft flying near Portmarnock getting quieter over the years is most certainly good for the people yes, and given the airport is by far the largest employer in Portmarnock its definitely of benefit to the area. Seems like half the Controllers I know in DUB live there.

10R/28L was built in 88? And 16/34 is from the 60s right? Portmarnock was green fields back then.

Edit: What is now runway 16/34 originally opened in 1937, so no, not new at all.

lawred2

Buying in a new estate under the flight path and complaining about planes overhead is as self absorbed as you can get.

We have neighbours who have lodged appeals to planning applications for new developments in the area desire our own development being only 5 years old itself.

I'll never understand some mindsets.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695029#Comment_117695029

As already posted by many posters, no one is looking for unrestricted night time operations, but for the airport to continue to be able to operate unhindered from 06:00 to 23:59.

The first and last hours of that period are critical to the Dublin based airlines for connectivity and maximising rotations of aircraft.

There will always be some activity between midnight and 05:59, but that should continue to be restricted to a relatively small number of flights as operating at present.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698394#Comment_117698394

My friend, these situations are difficult to resolve.

One thing is sure, resolution will require give and take on both interested sides.

To suggest that the airport be allowed to operate “unhindered” between 06 and 2359 is laughable.

To suggest that engine runs and the like would be allowed makes no sense at all.

This runway was built under certain conditions and as soon as it’s almost complete they start trying to change these.

Lot of posters here are badly informed, and have little real knowledge of airport operations.

Think a little before you post and remember that give and take is the only way to sort this stuff out.

People need their proper sleep, people need housing, airports need to stay operational, the trick is to arrive at a solution which accommodates both to the best of conditions for all.

Allowing airports to operate “unhindered” for any length of time doesn’t kind of solve any problems.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700847#Comment_117700847

But airports do operate unhindered during certain hours (noise abatement aside). Those hours commonly being between 6am and midnight for the most part. For example FRA starts operations at 5am, SYD starts at 3am. What’s in common? Those times suit best the market served!

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701006#Comment_117701006

If there are noise abatement regulations they do not operate “unhindered”.

Compromise Captain, compromise, that’s what’s required here.

I could reel out numerous airports which have different regulations.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701029#Comment_117701029

Dublin already operates with strict noise abatement procedures! The compromise is the existing hours pertaining to the old runway only! That’s a fairly big compromise.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701152#Comment_117701152

I don’t understand your point Captain.

There are posters looking for airports to operate “unhindered” when it’s perfectly obvious there are regulations

which have to be adhered to.

Some folk are posting with very loose language, I’m merely challenging it.

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701811#Comment_117701811

I think you're possibly just being a little pendantic on the language/wording.

No one is asking for 24hr operation, simply that the current runway be allowed to operate as it does currently, and not have it's use during one of the most important hours for transatlantic flights arriving and mainland EU flights leaving (to be there in time for people to make meetings etc) curtailed.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701811#Comment_117701811

If you want to be pedantic on wording then let’s be pedantic on noise abatement, which you picked up on. Noise abatement is a procedure directed by ATC for the benefit of the neighbours which most major airports implement. But this is often at the direction of the airport itself, so it’s not hindered by them but chooses to use them for the benefit of everyone. It’s not related to how many flights are allowed or at what time they’re allowed at!

There are hundreds of airports worldwide that operate as they please, but what Dublin is asking for is not unique and is in line with the operating restrictions in place in most of the major airports in Europe that have them. Dublin itself being one of them, that’s the irony.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701832#Comment_117701832

Maybe, but there were posters looking for the use of the Northern R. to be “maximized”.

what does that mean.?

Im just asking a rhetorical question here, no need for reply

Thats where I am coming from

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702111#Comment_117702111

I am aware of that.

Locker10a

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702254#Comment_117702254

I would say to maximize use of the northern runway it would need to be available for departures commencing 6am. And facilitate arrivals until 23:30 or 23:59.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702302#Comment_117702302

Good, that would be the way to submit a reply on that subject.

Otherwise it becomes vague and open to misinterpretation.

Ryaner

The noise abatement is, effectively, optional. When a carrier doesn't abide by it, it is at the discretion of the airport with regards to any punishment. There is at least one cargo carrier, with an older 73, who regularly cuts short the departure route late at night ignoring the procedure. I've lived beside the airport my whole life, and is it planes like those that people I know complain about, the rest of the planes just blend in to the background noise.

Fingal don't actively monitoring planes coming that cut across Swords either, look at the monitoring station locations in https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2020-09/dublin-airport-noise-mitigation-compliance-report-2019.pdf - page 12.

I have to say that I do miss the older crosswind runway that closed many years back. It used to give some amazing views on planes coming in low over Swords. Obviously for multiple reasons it isn't likely to ever come back, but the stories are still told like the Concorde visit and it coming down low over the houses to get to runway 24.

3d4life

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117702302#Comment_117702302

Arrivals on southern runway has been the spiel for years

Brendan Bendar

Seems strange to me that a company would agree to ‘conditions’ to get a project started and then as soon as the thing is complete start whinging that it’s not viable under the conditions they agreed to.

smacks of a stupid way to do things with a hint of ‘blackmail’ in this posters opinion.

Maybe I have it all wrong though or those are not the facts.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708621#Comment_117708621

They disagreed with the planning conditions from the start. They built the runway under the conditions that were granted, as it didn't affect the actual physical construction of the runway, but have been against the conditions since the start and appealed them as soon as they were legally able to.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708781#Comment_117708781

Thanks for that .

Bit of a gamble though,isn’t it ?

Hope they won’t be left with a white elephant.