Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Locke_Lamora · 30-10-2020 10:28pm

bilston wrote: »

Bryan Young, who in fairness did play for Ireland a few times, Adam Macklin never quite made it either. But we're going back a fair while.

Don't think either Kyle McCall or Ross Kane were ever expected to superstars.

A lot is expected of Tom O'Toole, and he hasn't been found wanting yet. I'm told Callum Reid had O'Toole in his pocket at schools level, but I can't independently verify that claim!!

Reid played in a much better team though, don't think there was that much between them but it was hard not to be excited about Reid. He then took a gap year whereas O'Toole has gone from strength to strength, and it's now hard not be excited about him!

Don't think anybody thought Kane would be a world beater but I expected a lot more than what he's shown. He has the occasional great game but he's inconsistent and injured a lot.

Paul Smeenus · 30-10-2020 10:47pm

launish116 wrote: »

Munster beat them on Monday with a young starting side. We’re not expecting radical team changes, even 20 mins off the bench for the odd academy player.

McCann's already had that. ReaJea started a game. It should have been factored into last game as well, I thought. But this is the best non-Irish side, apart from maybe Treviso, who have been unlucky in having us and Leinster in their first three games.

kingofthekong · 30-10-2020 11:08pm

Mccann really should be getting gametime for Ulster the same way Penny is for Leinster

mfceiling · 30-10-2020 11:15pm

bayern wrote: »

well who else have ulster produced that were good enough to be overhyped?

You've obviously never watched Ulster's homegrown props....in no way have any of them been overhyped. Why have we brought in so many front rows the last few years? I'll tell you why....because the majority of our local props haven't been particularly good.

mfceiling · 30-10-2020 11:15pm

bayern wrote: »

well who else have ulster produced that were good enough to be overhyped?

You've obviously never watched Ulster's homegrown props....in no way have any of them been overhyped. Why have we brought in so many front rows the last few years? I'll tell you why....because the majority of our local props haven't been particularly good.

Paul Smeenus · 31-10-2020 2:46pm

No 7s results yet. Presumably they're waiting for Leinster to win a game before they start tweeting.

kingofthekong · 31-10-2020 2:49pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

No 7s results yet. Presumably they're waiting for Leinster to win a game before they start tweeting.

given its leinsters first day at the 7s its unlikely they will win any, might beat connacht

Paul Smeenus · 31-10-2020 2:56pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

given its leinsters first day at the 7s its unlikely they will win any, might beat connacht

We'll never hear anything then. The Sevens Tournament That History Forgot.

kingofthekong · 31-10-2020 6:52pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

We'll never hear anything then. The Sevens Tournament That History Forgot.

I think you’re reaching a bit mate

Paul Smeenus · 31-10-2020 8:31pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

I think you’re reaching a bit mate

I stand by my biting satire

bilston · 31-10-2020 11:12pm

Dread to think what the Ireland match thread is saying about Stockdale...poor performance from him no doubt...and I'd say he will be getting lynched on Boards...nothing like a poor performance by an Ulsterman to cover the cracks on a generally poor Irish performance!

I see Ruaridhi O'Connor has kindly set the ball rolling on Twitter as well.

Anyway...more importantly...I assume the Ulster team will be announced tomorrow.

Be interesting to see if McCloskey or Cooney are involved. Will Burns be back?

Paul Smeenus · 31-10-2020 11:42pm

bilston wrote: »

Dread to think what the Ireland match thread is saying about Stockdale...poor performance from him no doubt...and I'd say he will be getting lynched on Boards...nothing like a poor performance by an Ulsterman to cover the cracks on a generally poor Irish performance!

I see Ruaridhi O'Connor has kindly set the ball rolling on Twitter as well.

Anyway...more importantly...I assume the Ulster team will be announced tomorrow.

Be interesting to see if McCloskey or Cooney are involved. Will Burns be back?

Yeah. I thought he made some obvious blunders but also showed why he's worth persisting with..

I thought if Hendo had called those lineouts, folk would have been calling for his head. Three times at least we were turned over going through the phases off lineouts. One lineout maul was eviscerated, one lineout Ryan caught and spiked straight into the ground. Sexton started the ball rolling for the first French try by shooting and not nailing his tackle. He and Byrne missed at least one kick to touch each. Doris and O'Connor were AWOL (thought Beirne had his best game yet at international level, and Stander was fantastic.) But I've no doubt we lost because of Stockdale.

One of these days Stockdale isn't going to get selected, and I wonder who they're going to blame then. The old truism "forwards win games" doesn't seem to occur to anyone when our pack is getting minced but Stockdale's on hand to take the heat.

Locke_Lamora · 01-11-2020 2:18am

Didn’t catch the match - is the stockdale criticism coming from his defence? I’ve been a big advocate of his positives outweighing his negatives, but even I’m finding it difficult to defend him. No improvement in that area whatsoever.

Utah_Saint · 01-11-2020 8:53am

Stockdale has all the physical attributes but to me he always looks a little frightened and indecisive when defending.

Attacking he is generally fine.

Utah_Saint · 01-11-2020 9:01am

Can players turn down requests to join the Ireland squad? I honestly believe Cooney and Stu should refuse. It's quite clear at this point they will never get another cap unless there is a total injury crisis. We lose them for a few weeks and they miss important Ulster games. They have played their best ever rugby in the past 18months but still don't get selected.

bilston · 01-11-2020 10:57am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Can players turn down requests to join the Ireland squad? I honestly believe Cooney and Stu should refuse. It's quite clear at this point they will never get another cap unless there is a total injury crisis. We lose them for a few weeks and they miss important Ulster games. They have played their best ever rugby in the past 18months but still don't get selected.

Not how Irish rugby works.

McCloskey is very unlucky, but the fact he only plays 12 is probably the biggest reason he hasn't had more caps rather than anything to do with his ability. He is never likely to make the bench, which means its harder for him to show how useful he can be in 20 minute cameos.

For example Farrell was quite effective last night when he came on and was able to showcase that. I don't think Farrell is better than McCloskey...there is nothing between them...but the fact Farrell can play 12 or 13 gives him a big advantage over McCloskey.

The only frustration I have with Farrell is that he plays for Munster and not Ulster!

Cooney was punished for 2 or 3 indifferent performances in a way that other players wouldn't be. But that in itself shows where he sits in the mind of Andy Farrell.

is_that_so · 01-11-2020 11:05am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Stockdale has all the physical attributes but to me he always looks a little frightened and indecisive when defending.

Attacking he is generally fine.

He's now 24 and still no great progress on defence. He's starting to look like a very good club player but is being found out far too regularly now at international level. His attacking flair puts him in line for a cap every time but how many defensive nights like last night will Farrell put up with?

launish116 · 01-11-2020 12:25pm

Academy 7s results:

W 15-10 v Leinster
W 26-10 v Munster
L 27-19 v Ireland
W 19-17 v Connacht

Paul Smeenus · 01-11-2020 12:29pm

Team at 12ish? Presumably full strength, maybe with Burns back?

Would like EOS to start again - he's better than McGrath. Lyttle has earned another go at 15.

launish116 · 01-11-2020 1:01pm

Ulster team to play Cardiff Blues, Guinness PRO14 Round 4, Monday 2 November 2020, at Rodney Parade (kick-off 6pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Stewart Moore, Stuart McCloskey, Louis Ludik, Billy Burns (Capt.), John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Adam McBurney, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Jack McGrath, Ross Kane, Sam Carter, Sean Reidy, Alby Mathewson, Luke Marshall, Ethan McIlroy.

bilston · 01-11-2020 1:11pm

launish116 wrote: »

Ulster team to play Cardiff Blues, Guinness PRO14 Round 4, Monday 2 November 2020, at Rodney Parade (kick-off 6pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Stewart Moore, Stuart McCloskey, Louis Ludik, Billy Burns (Capt.), John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Adam McBurney, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Jack McGrath, Ross Kane, Sam Carter, Sean Reidy, Alby Mathewson, Luke Marshall, Ethan McIlroy.

Good to see Marshall back in the squad. Looking forward to seeing what Moore can bring at 13.

Hope Coetzee is just rested.

Nice to see McIlroy involved.

Paul Smeenus · 01-11-2020 1:30pm

bilston wrote: »

Good to see Marshall back in the squad. Looking forward to seeing what Moore can bring at 13.

Hope Coetzee is just rested.

Nice to see McIlroy involved.

And Treadwell start. Also Lyttle rested, but I'm fine with that with Lowry starting.

launish116 · 01-11-2020 1:34pm

Milasinovich injured again? Thought they’d want to build up his match fitness.

Paul Smeenus · 01-11-2020 1:35pm

launish116 wrote: »

Milasinovich injured again? Thought they’d want to build up his match fitness.

Had forgotten about him! Yeah, he looks like he should be a useful addition, given more game time

bilston · 01-11-2020 1:40pm

launish116 wrote: »

Milasinovich injured again? Thought they’d want to build up his match fitness.

Maybe need to be careful with him given the nature of his injury...but agree with Paul that he seems a useful addition.

bilston · 01-11-2020 1:42pm

Big risk going to Cardiff without Coetzee. I don't mind resting him now and again, but we are away to Zebre in 2 weeks time which seems a better option to me for giving him a weekend off.

Edit - just realised this is at 6pm tomorrow night!

I don't mind the idea of Monday night rugby, but 6pm! Even working from home it's going to be a push to watch this live!

Paul Smeenus · 01-11-2020 1:51pm

bilston wrote: »

Big risk going to Cardiff without Coetzee. I don't mind resting him now and again, but we are away to Zebre in 2 weeks time which seems a better option to me for giving him a weekend off.

Edit - just realised this is at 6pm tomorrow night!

I don't mind the idea of Monday night rugby, but 6pm! Even working from home it's going to be a push to watch this live!

I know. In what world is that not teatime? If you've kids that's difficult.

Anyway, I think a greater risk is trying an untested combo of The Two Stus at centre against that Blues midfield. Let's see how it pays off.

launish116 · 01-11-2020 2:01pm

bilston wrote: »

Big risk going to Cardiff without Coetzee. I don't mind resting him now and again, but we are away to Zebre in 2 weeks time which seems a better option to me for giving him a weekend off.

Indeed, though are reliance on him is our greatest weakness! Really wish we would start exploring a genuine 8 replacement/backup if even giving jones/Allison some time. Greatest respect to Timoney but he isn’t an 8.

Hoping it’s a case of looking at his stats/workload(appreciate recent week off) and want him Completely fresh for Glasgow/Zebre in hope maybe McCann/Rea getting more game time along side him.

bilston · 01-11-2020 2:21pm

launish116 wrote: »

Indeed, though are reliance on him is our greatest weakness! Really wish we would start exploring a genuine 8 replacement/backup if even giving jones/Allison some time. Greatest respect to Timoney but he isn’t an 8.

Hoping it’s a case of looking at his stats/workload(appreciate recent week off) and want him Completely fresh for Glasgow/Zebre in hope maybe McCann/Rea getting more game time along side him.

I'm starting to wonder whether Allison is rated as highly as say McCann or Rea. Early days still

bayern · 01-11-2020 2:23pm

bilston wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder whether Allison is rated as highly as say McCann or Rea. Early days still

McCann is a much better prospect than Rea.

Allison is similarly rated to Rea IMO.

UAEguy2020 · 01-11-2020 2:23pm

Rea and McCann are much more built up (especially McCann). Also Allison has had a terrible injury record in his short career so far so maybe they dont want to push the boat out too far.

UAEguy2020 · 01-11-2020 2:25pm

bayern wrote: »

McCann is a much better prospect than Rea.

Allison is similarly rated to Rea IMO.

Yeah McCann for me is the best forward prospect Ulster have had since Henderson (not a huge bar I must admit but still pretty good).

I would rate Allison abit higher than Rea I must say but definetly agree on McCann being the biggest prospect.

launish116 · 01-11-2020 2:44pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Yeah McCann for me is the best forward prospect Ulster have had since Henderson (not a huge bar I must admit but still pretty good).

I would rate Allison abit higher than Rea I must say but definetly agree on McCann being the biggest prospect.

In comparison how was Rea Snr at their age does anyone know? Appreciate he wasn’t anywhere near Ulster.

McCann seems to have the skill and athleticism there is no doubt.

But It’s hardly like Rea Jnr & Allison were academy squad fillers. Both were highly thought of at u20.

I just can’t understand with back row such an area of concern, why we cant get players to push on, if McCann had of been at Leinster how many caps would he had by now?

Maybe i’m just impatient.

Paul Smeenus · 01-11-2020 3:36pm

launish116 wrote: »

In comparison how was Rea Snr at their age does anyone know? Appreciate he wasn’t anywhere near Ulster.

McCann seems to have the skill and athleticism there is no doubt.

But It’s hardly like Rea Jnr & Allison were academy squad fillers. Both were highly thought of at u20.

I just can’t understand with back row such an area of concern, why we cant get players to push on, if McCann had of been at Leinster how many caps would he had by now?

Maybe i’m just impatient.

ReaJea just turned 23. Allison is 21 - won't be 22 until next April. They're not really contemporaries.

I get frustrated, as we all do, but in actuality McFarland is doing a good job - a very good job, in fact - of bringing talent through. The real change is that at the start of last season all we wanted to see was some new lads blooded. Improve the squad, improve the culture, improve our play. It went so well that we're ahead of schedule, and we should be challenging for silverware. That should be the priority. Bringing youngsters on this season is less crucial than getting points in the league, as far as I'm concerned. But yeah - would love to see two of McCann, Allison and ReaJea feature against Zebre

launish116 · 01-11-2020 6:23pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

bringing youngsters on this season is less crucial than getting points in the league, as far as I'm concerned. But yeah - would love to see two of McCann, Allison and ReaJea feature against Zebre

I don’t believe that is the case!

Financial bringing youngsters on couldn’t be more important than ever. Financially rugby is about to fall of a cliff. Dan already made a large cull of dead wood when he arrived and I foresee at the end of this season the same again and a serious look at NIQs going forward. The money just ins’t there and Ulster seriously need to become more sustainable with academy conversion rate improving and players stepping up. (Academy has improved, this intake looks highly promosing)

Secondly I’m as guilty as anyone for thinking we almost need a full strength team weekly to win games. Until Ulster loose that mentality it’s gonna be an issue and restrict more integration of up and coming players. No Coetzee this week and now everyone is worried we’ll lose. Simple reason being we haven't developed a fall back at 8 we truely trust. (Realistically no one will match Coetzee).

We’re potentially sitting 2nd best province based on recent semi finals etc. Munster are making unusual strides the last two weeks and blooding a lot of youth, who actually are doing very well and their game is evolving. Mean while we’re relying/rotating same squad players.

In order for us to step forward we need to step back and I know a few people don’t agree but until Dan finds the answer to why academy players arnt making the jump we will always be the brides maid.

In summary league points are important, but ultimately youth being more involved in gaining them points is more important in long run. Rant over!

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 7:32pm

7-3 to Cardiff

Cardiff looking the better team.

Ludik looks like he's going off... possibly knocked out making a tackle

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 7:33pm

McIlroy on for ludik

OldRio · 02-11-2020 7:45pm

Scrum after scrum.

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 7:49pm

Ollie Robinson yellow card

launish116 · 02-11-2020 7:52pm

OldRio wrote: »

Scrum after scrum.

Forwards gonna be shattered second half.

We’re gonna lose an arm wrestle here.

OldRio · 02-11-2020 7:52pm

Good try

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 7:53pm

Finally!

That was painful from Ulster. 15mins on Cardiff try line

launish116 · 02-11-2020 8:00pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Finally!

That was painful from Ulster. 15mins on Cardiff try line

Literally other than Treadwell we arn’t making ground.

kingofthekong · 02-11-2020 8:02pm

Craig Gilroy looks like he’s running under water ....he’s so slow

HugoMyBoss · 02-11-2020 8:14pm

Did the conversion for the Ulster try go over off the post?

How come the score is not 7:10 to Ulster??

launish116 · 02-11-2020 8:17pm

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

Did the conversion for the Ulster try go over off the post?

How come the score is not 7:10 to Ulster??

Thought they missed

kingofthekong · 02-11-2020 8:23pm

Ulster pack is so under powered, even Connacht make more ground upfront

launish116 · 02-11-2020 8:26pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Ulster pack is so under powered, even Connacht make more ground upfront

It’s embarrassing, Reidy looks like the smallest of your rowers, yet always seems to make the most ground.

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 8:27pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Ulster pack is so under powered, even Connacht make more ground upfront

Yeah it's a really poor showing.

Utah_Saint · 02-11-2020 8:29pm

launish116 wrote: »

It’s embarrassing, Reidy looks like the smallest of your rowers, yet always seems to make the most ground.

It feels like Murphy hadn't made a yard in about 12 months

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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