Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

billie1b · 10-07-2018 9:45am

garhjw wrote: »

Sad to see the trade unions wrecking a great company but this was always going to happen once they got their claws in.

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

trellheim · 10-07-2018 9:46am

Are the “self employed” staff not all employees of various agencies; this they are employees but just not of Ryanair. The staff who have Dublin Airport access badges wear “contractor” badges but that is no different to our IT guys; our cleaners; various builders; etc.

Good question
contrast : Contract cleaners are fulltimers who work e.g. for Mick's Contract cleaners. Here the contract is held by Mick to clean the INIS lavatories - for example. However the staff are fulltime employees of Mick paying stamps and PAYE and entitled to benefits. They have to turn up for their shifts or will be let go.

Bob24 · 10-07-2018 3:41pm

If this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaken the negotiation power of the pilots: https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/irish-customer-update-pilot-strike-thurs-12-july/

Waiting to see what actually happens though.

Wanderer78 · 10-07-2018 3:44pm

Bob24 wrote:

IF this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaker the negotiation power of the pilots:

The management of Ryanair are fairly intelligent, they've been running an extremely successful business for long, this will get interesting, but I do expect it to get nasty also

Bob24 · 10-07-2018 3:50pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The management of Ryanair are fairly intelligent, they've been running an extremely successful business for long, this will get interesting, but I do expect it to get nasty also

I’m wondering 2 things:
- have they made the list based on a best case scenario with an option to cancel more, or is this the full extend of what they expect the impact will be?
- I am assuming that to minimise impact they are relying on extra hours for Irish contractors and flying in pilots based in other countries, if yes how long can Ryanair sustain that extra load in case irish pilots where to extend their strike for a longer period?

In any case, while not a surprise the fact that cancellations are announced now seems to indicate there is no expectation that tomorrow’s talks will lead to an agreement to call-off the strike.

garhjw · 10-07-2018 3:55pm

billie1b wrote: »

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 4:09pm

garhjw wrote: »

billie1b wrote: »

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

Why can't they be happy in their current job...?
Is that not allowed or something...?

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 4:22pm

Bob24 wrote: »

If this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaken the negotiation power of the pilots: https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/irish-customer-update-pilot-strike-thurs-12-july/

Waiting to see what actually happens though.

It doesn't really matter if they cancel three flights or thirty flights or even three hundred flights on Thursday, the damage will be done. There are thousands of passengers flying this week who won't be affected but I'm pretty sure they're all still worried about their travel arrangements.
People were extremely upset when it looked like their travel arrangements were going to be severely disrupted by the strike threat at Christmas. Now they're going to be extremely upset that their summer holidays may be affected by the current strike threat. Until this thing becomes well and truly settled to the satisfaction of all parties I couldn't see anyone trusting their holiday travel arrangements to Ryanair, Christmas or summer. People will continue to use them to jet around the rest of the year or whenever they have a massive seat sale but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

Bob24 · 10-07-2018 4:29pm

The number of people actually affected and the potential recurrence of cancellations does have a larger impact both on consumer confidence and on company fianances through. Sure it’s not great, but IMO a once off batch of 30 cancellations would be forgotten fairly easily (it would for exemple be a fairly smaller impact that last year’s aerial cancellations due to a shortage of pilots).

Lackey · 10-07-2018 4:35pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The number of people actually affected and the potential recurrence of cancellations does have a larger impact both on consumer confidence and on company fianances through. Sure it’s not great, but IMO a once off batch of 30 cancellations would be forgotten fairly easily.

A lot of people bought tickets with other airlines to cover themselves, they'll now lose this money

Everyone else was under stress
Even today there was confusion because this wasn't updated:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/travel-updates

and not all customers received emails even though their flight is being cancelled,

Proactive people who found out themselves managed to reschedule but a lot of those flights are full now before people even realise their flight is cancelled.

I doubt this will be forgotten easily myself.

billie1b · 10-07-2018 5:48pm

garhjw wrote: »

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

Why should they? Why can’t they be happy and have respect in their current job instead of bouncing from one place to another? Just because you are an employee of a company doesn’t mean you have to that crap on a daily basis in work and expect to take it on your days off too! The public are not being held to ransom, Ryanair are being thought a lesson by their employees, the very people who made the company what it is today and them employees deserve respect and gratitude from their employer!! I’m sure if the public had to put up with what Ryanair employees have to put up with they’d soon realise what the strike is over

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 6:23pm

Lackey wrote: »

A lot of people bought tickets with other airlines to cover themselves, they'll now lose this money

Everyone else was under stress
Even today there was confusion because this wasn't updated:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/travel-updates

and not all customers received emails even though their flight is being cancelled,

Proactive people who found out themselves managed to reschedule but a lot of those flights are full now before people even realise their flight is cancelled.

I doubt this will be forgotten easily myself.

It will, people will always take a chance on the cheapest.

Mebuntu · 10-07-2018 6:49pm

billy few mates wrote: »

but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

For quite a long period of time Aer Lingus passengers were screwed on a regular basis by IALPA et al and it didn't do them too much harm. They even hired in Ryanair aircraft to do some of their flights. Those who liked flying with them (and could afford it) continued to do so. Had I been a fanboy I would certainly have. With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is. There is no guarantee whatsoever that anyone booking travel plans 6-12 months in advance will not be facing a disruption situation when the travel date comes around. Look at the Irish Ferries double debacle for example.

Ryanair, the "people's airline", is now under attack and I have no doubt the people will continue to support them.

And when the next downturn occurs, well....we all can make predictions of what happens next for the legacies.

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 7:33pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

For quite a long period of time Aer Lingus passengers were screwed on a regular basis by IALPA et al and it didn't do them too much harm. They even hired in Ryanair aircraft to do some of their flights. Those who liked flying with them (and could afford it) continued to do so. Had I been a fanboy I would certainly have. With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is. There is no guarantee whatsoever that anyone booking travel plans 6-12 months in advance will not be facing a disruption situation when the travel date comes around. Look at the Irish Ferries double debacle for example.

Ryanair, the "people's airline", is now under attack and I have no doubt the people will continue to support them.

And when the next downturn occurs, well....we all can make predictions of what happens next for the legacies.

Few interesting points there.

Ryanair “the people’s airline”

Hmmm here’s how it strikes me.....who uses FR most, one might suggest it would be the so called ‘ working classes’ I think that’s a fair enough assumption.

Those who would have an affinity with the unions and wouldn’t pass pickets under any circumstances.…those who would always support anyone who would ‘sock it to the man’ as it were.

The fallout from this will be interesting, will the ‘brothers’ cut off their noses to spite their faces.Will they support this dispute irrespective of the issues and pillorytbe company or will they ignore all that and refuse to use the company and opt for their competitors.

Will they f**k

Cookiemunster · 10-07-2018 8:00pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Few interesting points there.

Ryanair “the people’s airline”

Hmmm here’s how it strikes me.....who uses FR most, one might suggest it would be the so called ‘ working classes’ I think that’s a fair enough assumption.

Those who would have an affinity with the unions and wouldn’t pass pickets under any circumstances.…those who would always support anyone who would ‘sock it to the man’ as it were.

The fallout from this will be interesting, will the ‘brothers’ cut off their noses to spite their faces.Will they support this dispute irrespective of the issues and pillorytbe company or will they ignore all that and refuse to use the company and opt for their competitors.

Will they f**k

Most people in the private sector work in non union jobs these days. Today's 'working class' would have little affinity with unions.

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 8:35pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Most people in the private sector work in non union jobs these days. Today's 'working class' would have little affinity with unions.

Would have to disagree with the second sentence,cookie.

The outcome and reportage will be interesting.

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 8:44pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

billy few mates wrote: »

but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is.

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 8:52pm

billy few mates wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

More money?

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 9:02pm

billy few mates wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More money?

That'll be a no then...

CoisFharraige · 10-07-2018 9:02pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Oh please. Do a bit of research before being dismissive of the people on strike!

CoisFharraige · 10-07-2018 9:02pm

Dupe

Danielvarian1 · 10-07-2018 9:05pm

This dispute is clearly a power struggle between the unions and Ryanair. Ryanair want to spend as little money as possible and gain maximum profit. There’s only so long that underpaid or overworked staff will be quiet for until something like this happens. The only people who will truly suffer at the end of all of this is the customer.

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 9:05pm

billy few mates wrote: »

That'll be a no then...

Bill, it’s always about money if you drill down.

Now you can put seniority issues, base changes on promotion an other stuff in there, but it’s money, Bill, always money.

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 9:07pm

CoisFharraige wrote: »

Oh please. Do a bit of research before being dismissive of the people on strike!

You are not quoting me Cois?

CoisFharraige · 10-07-2018 9:08pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

This dispute is clearly a power struggle between the unions and Ryanair. Ryanair want to spend as little money as possible and gain maximum profit. There’s only so long that underpaid or overworked staff will be quiet for until something like this happens. The only people who will truly suffer at the end of all of this is the customer.

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

Brendan Bendar · 10-07-2018 9:11pm

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

You have quoted me for something another poster said.

Can you correct that please.

Danielvarian1 · 10-07-2018 9:16pm

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

I can sense ryanair this time will have to give the union what they want or risk losing a lot of customers due to constant industrial strike threats and unreliability as an airline.

CoisFharraige · 10-07-2018 9:23pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

I can sense ryanair this time will have to give the union what they want or risk losing a lot of customers due to constant industrial strike threats and unreliability as an airline.

I think it says that they know best; they aren’t happy at all with the T&Cs, management rhetoric and abuse/threats from them, so they’ve finally stood up. It’s going to disrupt families regardless - however the pilots would argue (rightly so) that they’re families have been hugely disrupted, possibly ruined, by base changes for command without any option to change back without starting from the bottom of another airline. It goes both ways, they’ve not caused any disruption whatsoever in 30-odd years, and I think they are more than overdue their chance to express their opinion.

I agree that the union/Pilots have the upper-hand now, and once the disruption hits the balance sheets and LFs David Bonderman will soon order his troops to change something.

NH2013 · 10-07-2018 9:27pm

Well one could say consideration has been given to customers, the Christmas strike was called off, giving Ryanair time to come around the table and negociate but from the sound of it Ryanair has made little effort to address the grievances of the employees, grievances which would be cost neutral to address and would at least indicate that the company is listening, and would be a considerable good will gesture such as a transparent basing agreement and a seniority list.

Ryanair has had 7 months to address these concerns, but nothing seems to have been done, what options are left to the employees other than to strike to force the airlines hand into addressing their issues and grievances.

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 9:28pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

Well maybe not funerals, they gave nearly two weeks notice...:rolleyes:

Danielvarian1 · 10-07-2018 9:29pm

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think it says that they know best; they aren’t happy at all with the T&Cs, management rhetoric and abuse/threats from them, so they’ve finally stood up. It’s going to disrupt families regardless - however the pilots would argue (rightly so) that they’re families have been hugely disrupted, possibly ruined, by base changes for command without any option to change back without starting from the bottom of another airline. It goes both ways, they’ve not caused any disruption whatsoever in 30-odd years, and I think they are more than overdue their chance to express their opinion.

I agree that the union/Pilots have the upper-hand now, and once the disruption hits the balance sheets and LFs David Bonderman will soon order his troops to change something.

I was very surprised that only 30 flights to the UK only were cancelled. It seems like Ryanair have a good system in place in the case of strikes.

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 9:33pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Bill, it’s always about money if you drill down.

Now you can put seniority issues, base changes on promotion an other stuff in there, but it’s money, Bill, always money.

What money are they looking for in this dispute...?
This is about a seniority system...

Mebuntu · 10-07-2018 9:48pm

I worked for a big company for more than 25 years. Unionised and I was a staunch member. One of the things that was untouchable and we accepted it was untouchable was the right of the company to decide who got promoted to "senior" positions and when and who got promotion to what bases. There were many instances of "Senior" staff being by-passed by others including women, BTW, because they were the best people for the job as far as the company was concerned. Those who had to move did with their families knowing full well that another transfer could be on the cards some time in the future. There was a system that allowed people who thought they had been unfairly overlooked to have an interview so decisions could be explained. But you can't have employees or unions deciding how a company is run.

Unfortunately, in the airline industry the unions believe they can and, for example, the power they had built up at Dublin Airport was deemed to be untouchable. That is, until they tried to coerce Ryanair to deal with them over the baggage handlers 20 years ago. The handlers went on strike so the management loaded the bags for the first wave. The unions then had the audacity (cheek) to get Aer Lingus staff to unlawfully stand behind Ryanair planes so they couldn't be pushed back followed by the complete closure of the airport (all airlines suffered) by pulling out the firemen. THAT, ladies and gents, is the mindset of the people we are dealing with here.

Thankfully, Ryanair held firm and that was the first vital step in putting the unions back in their box. Never again could they close the airport on a one-out all-out basis and passengers of all airlines should be grateful for that situation. Of course, I am aware that "not a lot of people know that".

It was absolutely inevitable that IALPA were going to strike against Ryanair for any old reason and, imho, the current reason for disrupting the people is obscene. Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

billie1b · 10-07-2018 9:54pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

I worked for a big company for more than 25 years. Unionised and I was a staunch member. One of the things that was untouchable and we accepted it was untouchable was the right of the company to decide who got promoted to "senior" positions and when and who got promotion to what bases. There were many instances of non-"Senior" staff being by-passed by others including women, BTW, because they were the best people for the job as far as the company was concerned. Those who had to move did with their families knowing full well that another transfer could be on the cards some time in the future. There was a system that allowed people who thought they had been unfairly overlooked to have an interview so decisions could be explained. But you can't have employees or unions deciding how a company is run.

Unfortunately, in the airline industry the unions believe they can and, for example, the power they had built up at Dublin Airport was deemed to be untouchable. That is, until they tried to coerce Ryanair to deal with them over the baggage handlers 20 years ago. The handlers went on strike so the management loaded the bags for the first wave. The unions then had the audacity (cheek) to get Aer Lingus staff to unlawfully stand behind Ryanair planes so they couldn't be pushed back followed by the complete closure of the airport (all airlines suffered) by pulling out the firemen. THAT, ladies and gents, is the mindset of the people we are dealing with here.

Thankfully, Ryanair held firm and that was the first vital step in putting the unions back in their box. Never again could they close the airport on a one-out all-out basis and passengers of all airlines should be grateful for that situation. Of course, I am aware that "not a lot of people know that".

It was absolutely inevitable that IALPA were going to strike against Ryanair for any old reason and, imho, the current reason for disrupting the people is obscene. Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

You do know that the Ryanair workers in that ‘98 strike got what they wanted and all returned to work with better conditions and almost double the wage they were on. Ryanair lost in that strike big time but will never admit it.

Mebuntu · 10-07-2018 10:04pm

billie1b wrote: »

You do know that the Ryanair workers in that ‘98 strike got what they wanted and all returned to work with better conditions and almost double the wage they were on. Ryanair lost in that strike big time but will never admit it.

You must not ignore the bigger picture. The breaking of union power at the airport was a far, far greater prize.

Irish Steve · 10-07-2018 10:33pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

You must not ignore the bigger picture. The breaking of union power at the airport was a far, far greater prize.

5 years later, the unions were still dominant in some areas. I was comprehensively shafted by a full time union representative who was supposedly on my side at the Labour court, but he conveniently forgot to mention some information that I didn't find out about until a couple of years later when I met one of the junior managers at a social event. A union activist had filed a complaint against me, and I was suspended as a result, then fired, despite their being no witnesses of what I'd supposedly done wrong.

No written warnings, no previous issues, and when asked about it, the senior training manager's response to the company management on how he would have dealt with the situation was "exactly as Steve did". The Union conveniently forgot to mention that nugget of information, if I'd known how they were going to "represent" me, I've have given the rep his marching orders, but I naively believed that the Union were working in my interest. The company senior management were only delighted to have been able to "facilitate" the union, the junior manager I met and got the information from apologised profusely to me, as he never expected it to get to that point, or have that result, and he was very upset by it.

There were then, and still are now, a number of areas at the airport where the Unions call the shots, which is not how it should be.

There are times when the wider and stronger power of a Union may be needed to resolve situations where a company is operating inappropriately, but those occasions are rare.

If I am totally blunt, there are some aspects of the way that Ryanair are operating at present that needs the power of Government to change the rules to prevent them continuing with some of their present policies, and bluntly, the involvement of the Unions in that situation is only likely to muddy the waters, not provide a resolution.

It was very clear to me when I was working at the airport that the Unions had no real interest in or concerns for the consequences of their actions on the travelling public, their inconveniencing the travelling public was only seen by their activists as "collateral damage", and irrelevant to their longer term objectives. Any organisation that is so blinkered does not deserve to be in a position to be able to exert that degree of control over what happens to the lives of people.

billy few mates · 10-07-2018 10:36pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

Or transparency as some people might call it...

trellheim · 10-07-2018 10:40pm

Does it sound to people like it is the Union trying to take over the airport here or is it a group of people with a real grievance here ?

Mebuntu · 10-07-2018 11:07pm

trellheim wrote: »

Does it sound to people like it is the Union trying to take over the airport here or is it a group of people with a real grievance here ?

No and no

trellheim · 10-07-2018 11:12pm

In your opinion frivolous then ?

Mebuntu · 10-07-2018 11:16pm

trellheim wrote: »

In your opinion frivolous then ?

I've already given my opinion. That's all it is, my opinion. Others may have a different one which they are entitled to have and to express here.

Danielvarian1 · 11-07-2018 2:13am

How often can these unions go on strike? Do they need a seperate ballot everytime they wish to do so?

LiamaDelta · 11-07-2018 12:53pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

How often can these unions go on strike? Do they need a seperate ballot everytime they wish to do so?

No the ballot is to engage in industrial action, they just have to give 7 days notice of strike action within that industrial action.

Danielvarian1 · 11-07-2018 12:57pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

No the ballot is to engage in industrial action, they just have to give 7 days notice of strike action within that industrial action.

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

Pat Dunne · 11-07-2018 12:58pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

All depends if there is an agreement or not!

LiamaDelta · 11-07-2018 1:01pm

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

I'm not an expert in IR but afaik no, there would have to be a more substantial change rather than talks just going well. However the Union can issue a notice of withdrawl of industrial action at any point if they feel that it is not warranted anymore or in order to progress talks.

Danielvarian1 · 11-07-2018 1:01pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I'm not an expert in IR but afaik no, there would have to be a more substantial change rather than talks just going well. However the Union can issue a notice of withdrawl of industrial action at any point if they feel that it is not warranted anymore or in order to progress talks.

So they can basically just decide to strike at any time as long as a weeks notice is given?

LeChienMefiant · 11-07-2018 2:10pm

Remember that Luas striked 12 times:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/over-at-last-luas-strike-finished-as-drivers-get-pay-increases-of-18pc-34770783.html

trellheim · 11-07-2018 4:13pm

any news ? nothing from Ingrid yet

Danielvarian1 · 11-07-2018 4:36pm

trellheim wrote: »

any news ? nothing from Ingrid yet

Nothing online as of yet, drawn out it seems, don’t know if that’s a good sign or a bad sign.

Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

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