Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

billie1b

garhjw wrote: »

Sad to see the trade unions wrecking a great company but this was always going to happen once they got their claws in.

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

trellheim

Are the “self employed” staff not all employees of various agencies; this they are employees but just not of Ryanair. The staff who have Dublin Airport access badges wear “contractor” badges but that is no different to our IT guys; our cleaners; various builders; etc.

Good question
contrast : Contract cleaners are fulltimers who work e.g. for Mick's Contract cleaners. Here the contract is held by Mick to clean the INIS lavatories - for example. However the staff are fulltime employees of Mick paying stamps and PAYE and entitled to benefits. They have to turn up for their shifts or will be let go.

Bob24

If this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaken the negotiation power of the pilots: https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/irish-customer-update-pilot-strike-thurs-12-july/

Waiting to see what actually happens though.

Wanderer78

Bob24 wrote:

IF this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaker the negotiation power of the pilots:

The management of Ryanair are fairly intelligent, they've been running an extremely successful business for long, this will get interesting, but I do expect it to get nasty also

Bob24

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The management of Ryanair are fairly intelligent, they've been running an extremely successful business for long, this will get interesting, but I do expect it to get nasty also

I’m wondering 2 things:
- have they made the list based on a best case scenario with an option to cancel more, or is this the full extend of what they expect the impact will be?
- I am assuming that to minimise impact they are relying on extra hours for Irish contractors and flying in pilots based in other countries, if yes how long can Ryanair sustain that extra load in case irish pilots where to extend their strike for a longer period?

In any case, while not a surprise the fact that cancellations are announced now seems to indicate there is no expectation that tomorrow’s talks will lead to an agreement to call-off the strike.

garhjw

billie1b wrote: »

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

billy few mates

garhjw wrote: »

billie1b wrote: »

It wasn’t the unions that decided to strike, it was the workers, the unions put an 80% marker on the ballot for strike action to happen as opposed to the usual 51%, 99% of the permanent Ryanair workers have voted in favour of this strike, that should give people some type of hint if what it’s like in there currently, the workers need this strike, it’s only getting worse in there, don’t believe the trash RYR come out with in the media, none of it is true.

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

Why can't they be happy in their current job...?
Is that not allowed or something...?

billy few mates

Bob24 wrote: »

If this is correct and only 30 UK bound flights are impacted, they managed to mitigate the impact pretty well which would weaken the negotiation power of the pilots: https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/irish-customer-update-pilot-strike-thurs-12-july/

Waiting to see what actually happens though.

It doesn't really matter if they cancel three flights or thirty flights or even three hundred flights on Thursday, the damage will be done. There are thousands of passengers flying this week who won't be affected but I'm pretty sure they're all still worried about their travel arrangements.
People were extremely upset when it looked like their travel arrangements were going to be severely disrupted by the strike threat at Christmas. Now they're going to be extremely upset that their summer holidays may be affected by the current strike threat. Until this thing becomes well and truly settled to the satisfaction of all parties I couldn't see anyone trusting their holiday travel arrangements to Ryanair, Christmas or summer. People will continue to use them to jet around the rest of the year or whenever they have a massive seat sale but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

Bob24

The number of people actually affected and the potential recurrence of cancellations does have a larger impact both on consumer confidence and on company fianances through. Sure it’s not great, but IMO a once off batch of 30 cancellations would be forgotten fairly easily (it would for exemple be a fairly smaller impact that last year’s aerial cancellations due to a shortage of pilots).

Lackey

Bob24 wrote: »

The number of people actually affected and the potential recurrence of cancellations does have a larger impact both on consumer confidence and on company fianances through. Sure it’s not great, but IMO a once off batch of 30 cancellations would be forgotten fairly easily.

A lot of people bought tickets with other airlines to cover themselves, they'll now lose this money

Everyone else was under stress
Even today there was confusion because this wasn't updated:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/travel-updates

and not all customers received emails even though their flight is being cancelled,

Proactive people who found out themselves managed to reschedule but a lot of those flights are full now before people even realise their flight is cancelled.


I doubt this will be forgotten easily myself.

billie1b

garhjw wrote: »

Would they not just get a job elsewhere instead of holding the public to ransom. I wasn’t happy in my last job so I got 1 elsewhere.

Why should they? Why can’t they be happy and have respect in their current job instead of bouncing from one place to another? Just because you are an employee of a company doesn’t mean you have to that crap on a daily basis in work and expect to take it on your days off too! The public are not being held to ransom, Ryanair are being thought a lesson by their employees, the very people who made the company what it is today and them employees deserve respect and gratitude from their employer!! I’m sure if the public had to put up with what Ryanair employees have to put up with they’d soon realise what the strike is over

Brendan Bendar

Lackey wrote: »

A lot of people bought tickets with other airlines to cover themselves, they'll now lose this money

Everyone else was under stress
Even today there was confusion because this wasn't updated:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/travel-updates

and not all customers received emails even though their flight is being cancelled,

Proactive people who found out themselves managed to reschedule but a lot of those flights are full now before people even realise their flight is cancelled.


I doubt this will be forgotten easily myself.

It will, people will always take a chance on the cheapest.

Mebuntu

billy few mates wrote: »

but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

For quite a long period of time Aer Lingus passengers were screwed on a regular basis by IALPA et al and it didn't do them too much harm. They even hired in Ryanair aircraft to do some of their flights. Those who liked flying with them (and could afford it) continued to do so. Had I been a fanboy I would certainly have. With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is. There is no guarantee whatsoever that anyone booking travel plans 6-12 months in advance will not be facing a disruption situation when the travel date comes around. Look at the Irish Ferries double debacle for example.

Ryanair, the "people's airline", is now under attack and I have no doubt the people will continue to support them.

And when the next downturn occurs, well....we all can make predictions of what happens next for the legacies.

Brendan Bendar

Mebuntu wrote: »

For quite a long period of time Aer Lingus passengers were screwed on a regular basis by IALPA et al and it didn't do them too much harm. They even hired in Ryanair aircraft to do some of their flights. Those who liked flying with them (and could afford it) continued to do so. Had I been a fanboy I would certainly have. With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is. There is no guarantee whatsoever that anyone booking travel plans 6-12 months in advance will not be facing a disruption situation when the travel date comes around. Look at the Irish Ferries double debacle for example.

Ryanair, the "people's airline", is now under attack and I have no doubt the people will continue to support them.

And when the next downturn occurs, well....we all can make predictions of what happens next for the legacies.

Few interesting points there.

Ryanair “the people’s airline”

Hmmm here’s how it strikes me.....who uses FR most, one might suggest it would be the so called ‘ working classes’ I think that’s a fair enough assumption.

Those who would have an affinity with the unions and wouldn’t pass pickets under any circumstances.…those who would always support anyone who would ‘sock it to the man’ as it were.

The fallout from this will be interesting, will the ‘brothers’ cut off their noses to spite their faces.Will they support this dispute irrespective of the issues and pillorytbe company or will they ignore all that and refuse to use the company and opt for their competitors.

Will they f**k

Cookiemunster

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Few interesting points there.

Ryanair “the people’s airline”

Hmmm here’s how it strikes me.....who uses FR most, one might suggest it would be the so called ‘ working classes’ I think that’s a fair enough assumption.

Those who would have an affinity with the unions and wouldn’t pass pickets under any circumstances.…those who would always support anyone who would ‘sock it to the man’ as it were.

The fallout from this will be interesting, will the ‘brothers’ cut off their noses to spite their faces.Will they support this dispute irrespective of the issues and pillorytbe company or will they ignore all that and refuse to use the company and opt for their competitors.

Will they f**k

Most people in the private sector work in non union jobs these days. Today's 'working class' would have little affinity with unions.

Brendan Bendar

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Most people in the private sector work in non union jobs these days. Today's 'working class' would have little affinity with unions.

Would have to disagree with the second sentence,cookie.

The outcome and reportage will be interesting.

billy few mates

Mebuntu wrote: »

billy few mates wrote: »

but once the consumer decides that an airline (any airline) can't be trusted with important travel plans then it will take an awful lot to regain that customer confidence.

With the airline doing so well it is inevitable that the unions will be back sooner or later looking for more. That's the way it is.

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Brendan Bendar

billy few mates wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

More money?

billy few mates

billy few mates wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More money?

That'll be a no then...

CoisFharraige

Dupe

CoisFharraige

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More what...?
More respect...? More transparency in system...?
Do you even know what this dispute is about...?

Oh please. Do a bit of research before being dismissive of the people on strike!

Danielvarian1

This dispute is clearly a power struggle between the unions and Ryanair. Ryanair want to spend as little money as possible and gain maximum profit. There’s only so long that underpaid or overworked staff will be quiet for until something like this happens. The only people who will truly suffer at the end of all of this is the customer.

Brendan Bendar

billy few mates wrote: »

That'll be a no then...

Bill, it’s always about money if you drill down.

Now you can put seniority issues, base changes on promotion an other stuff in there, but it’s money, Bill, always money.

Brendan Bendar

CoisFharraige wrote: »

Oh please. Do a bit of research before being dismissive of the people on strike!

You are not quoting me Cois?

CoisFharraige

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

This dispute is clearly a power struggle between the unions and Ryanair. Ryanair want to spend as little money as possible and gain maximum profit. There’s only so long that underpaid or overworked staff will be quiet for until something like this happens. The only people who will truly suffer at the end of all of this is the customer.

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

Brendan Bendar

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

You have quoted me for something another poster said.

Can you correct that please.

Danielvarian1

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

I can sense ryanair this time will have to give the union what they want or risk losing a lot of customers due to constant industrial strike threats and unreliability as an airline.

CoisFharraige

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think a 99% vote in favour says a lot, and isn’t to be belittled or dismissed - of course the union are the union, but the pilots voted for themselves, not the union.

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

I can sense ryanair this time will have to give the union what they want or risk losing a lot of customers due to constant industrial strike threats and unreliability as an airline.

I think it says that they know best; they aren’t happy at all with the T&Cs, management rhetoric and abuse/threats from them, so they’ve finally stood up. It’s going to disrupt families regardless - however the pilots would argue (rightly so) that they’re families have been hugely disrupted, possibly ruined, by base changes for command without any option to change back without starting from the bottom of another airline. It goes both ways, they’ve not caused any disruption whatsoever in 30-odd years, and I think they are more than overdue their chance to express their opinion.

I agree that the union/Pilots have the upper-hand now, and once the disruption hits the balance sheets and LFs David Bonderman will soon order his troops to change something.

NH2013

Well one could say consideration has been given to customers, the Christmas strike was called off, giving Ryanair time to come around the table and negociate but from the sound of it Ryanair has made little effort to address the grievances of the employees, grievances which would be cost neutral to address and would at least indicate that the company is listening, and would be a considerable good will gesture such as a transparent basing agreement and a seniority list.

Ryanair has had 7 months to address these concerns, but nothing seems to have been done, what options are left to the employees other than to strike to force the airlines hand into addressing their issues and grievances.

billy few mates

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

It does say a lot about the pilots who do in my opinion have a great, well paying secure job. There are bad sides to the unions and Ryanair in this dispute. But, as I have said not a thought goes into customers who may have important flights booked for funerals, weddings, family trips etc.

Well maybe not funerals, they gave nearly two weeks notice...:rolleyes: