Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

Danielvarian1

CoisFharraige wrote: »

I think it says that they know best; they aren’t happy at all with the T&Cs, management rhetoric and abuse/threats from them, so they’ve finally stood up. It’s going to disrupt families regardless - however the pilots would argue (rightly so) that they’re families have been hugely disrupted, possibly ruined, by base changes for command without any option to change back without starting from the bottom of another airline. It goes both ways, they’ve not caused any disruption whatsoever in 30-odd years, and I think they are more than overdue their chance to express their opinion.

I agree that the union/Pilots have the upper-hand now, and once the disruption hits the balance sheets and LFs David Bonderman will soon order his troops to change something.

I was very surprised that only 30 flights to the UK only were cancelled. It seems like Ryanair have a good system in place in the case of strikes.

billy few mates

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Bill, it’s always about money if you drill down.

Now you can put seniority issues, base changes on promotion an other stuff in there, but it’s money, Bill, always money.

What money are they looking for in this dispute...?
This is about a seniority system...

Mebuntu

I worked for a big company for more than 25 years. Unionised and I was a staunch member. One of the things that was untouchable and we accepted it was untouchable was the right of the company to decide who got promoted to "senior" positions and when and who got promotion to what bases. There were many instances of "Senior" staff being by-passed by others including women, BTW, because they were the best people for the job as far as the company was concerned. Those who had to move did with their families knowing full well that another transfer could be on the cards some time in the future. There was a system that allowed people who thought they had been unfairly overlooked to have an interview so decisions could be explained. But you can't have employees or unions deciding how a company is run.

Unfortunately, in the airline industry the unions believe they can and, for example, the power they had built up at Dublin Airport was deemed to be untouchable. That is, until they tried to coerce Ryanair to deal with them over the baggage handlers 20 years ago. The handlers went on strike so the management loaded the bags for the first wave. The unions then had the audacity (cheek) to get Aer Lingus staff to unlawfully stand behind Ryanair planes so they couldn't be pushed back followed by the complete closure of the airport (all airlines suffered) by pulling out the firemen. THAT, ladies and gents, is the mindset of the people we are dealing with here.

Thankfully, Ryanair held firm and that was the first vital step in putting the unions back in their box. Never again could they close the airport on a one-out all-out basis and passengers of all airlines should be grateful for that situation. Of course, I am aware that "not a lot of people know that".

It was absolutely inevitable that IALPA were going to strike against Ryanair for any old reason and, imho, the current reason for disrupting the people is obscene. Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

billie1b

Mebuntu wrote: »

I worked for a big company for more than 25 years. Unionised and I was a staunch member. One of the things that was untouchable and we accepted it was untouchable was the right of the company to decide who got promoted to "senior" positions and when and who got promotion to what bases. There were many instances of non-"Senior" staff being by-passed by others including women, BTW, because they were the best people for the job as far as the company was concerned. Those who had to move did with their families knowing full well that another transfer could be on the cards some time in the future. There was a system that allowed people who thought they had been unfairly overlooked to have an interview so decisions could be explained. But you can't have employees or unions deciding how a company is run.

Unfortunately, in the airline industry the unions believe they can and, for example, the power they had built up at Dublin Airport was deemed to be untouchable. That is, until they tried to coerce Ryanair to deal with them over the baggage handlers 20 years ago. The handlers went on strike so the management loaded the bags for the first wave. The unions then had the audacity (cheek) to get Aer Lingus staff to unlawfully stand behind Ryanair planes so they couldn't be pushed back followed by the complete closure of the airport (all airlines suffered) by pulling out the firemen. THAT, ladies and gents, is the mindset of the people we are dealing with here.

Thankfully, Ryanair held firm and that was the first vital step in putting the unions back in their box. Never again could they close the airport on a one-out all-out basis and passengers of all airlines should be grateful for that situation. Of course, I am aware that "not a lot of people know that".

It was absolutely inevitable that IALPA were going to strike against Ryanair for any old reason and, imho, the current reason for disrupting the people is obscene. Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

You do know that the Ryanair workers in that ‘98 strike got what they wanted and all returned to work with better conditions and almost double the wage they were on. Ryanair lost in that strike big time but will never admit it.

Mebuntu

billie1b wrote: »

You do know that the Ryanair workers in that ‘98 strike got what they wanted and all returned to work with better conditions and almost double the wage they were on. Ryanair lost in that strike big time but will never admit it.

You must not ignore the bigger picture. The breaking of union power at the airport was a far, far greater prize.

Irish Steve

Mebuntu wrote: »

You must not ignore the bigger picture. The breaking of union power at the airport was a far, far greater prize.

5 years later, the unions were still dominant in some areas. I was comprehensively shafted by a full time union representative who was supposedly on my side at the Labour court, but he conveniently forgot to mention some information that I didn't find out about until a couple of years later when I met one of the junior managers at a social event. A union activist had filed a complaint against me, and I was suspended as a result, then fired, despite their being no witnesses of what I'd supposedly done wrong.

No written warnings, no previous issues, and when asked about it, the senior training manager's response to the company management on how he would have dealt with the situation was "exactly as Steve did". The Union conveniently forgot to mention that nugget of information, if I'd known how they were going to "represent" me, I've have given the rep his marching orders, but I naively believed that the Union were working in my interest. The company senior management were only delighted to have been able to "facilitate" the union, the junior manager I met and got the information from apologised profusely to me, as he never expected it to get to that point, or have that result, and he was very upset by it.

There were then, and still are now, a number of areas at the airport where the Unions call the shots, which is not how it should be.

There are times when the wider and stronger power of a Union may be needed to resolve situations where a company is operating inappropriately, but those occasions are rare.

If I am totally blunt, there are some aspects of the way that Ryanair are operating at present that needs the power of Government to change the rules to prevent them continuing with some of their present policies, and bluntly, the involvement of the Unions in that situation is only likely to muddy the waters, not provide a resolution.

It was very clear to me when I was working at the airport that the Unions had no real interest in or concerns for the consequences of their actions on the travelling public, their inconveniencing the travelling public was only seen by their activists as "collateral damage", and irrelevant to their longer term objectives. Any organisation that is so blinkered does not deserve to be in a position to be able to exert that degree of control over what happens to the lives of people.

billy few mates

Mebuntu wrote: »

Well-paid professionals striking over a row about who is "Senior" to others and unable to accept transfers to other bases as required by the company they work for and pays them.

Or transparency as some people might call it...

trellheim

Does it sound to people like it is the Union trying to take over the airport here or is it a group of people with a real grievance here ?

Mebuntu

trellheim wrote: »

Does it sound to people like it is the Union trying to take over the airport here or is it a group of people with a real grievance here ?

No and no

trellheim

In your opinion frivolous then ?

Mebuntu

trellheim wrote: »

In your opinion frivolous then ?

I've already given my opinion. That's all it is, my opinion. Others may have a different one which they are entitled to have and to express here.

Danielvarian1

How often can these unions go on strike? Do they need a seperate ballot everytime they wish to do so?

LiamaDelta

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

How often can these unions go on strike? Do they need a seperate ballot everytime they wish to do so?

No the ballot is to engage in industrial action, they just have to give 7 days notice of strike action within that industrial action.

Danielvarian1

LiamaDelta wrote: »

No the ballot is to engage in industrial action, they just have to give 7 days notice of strike action within that industrial action.

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

Pat Dunne

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

All depends if there is an agreement or not!

LiamaDelta

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

Okay presuming the talks go well today, if the strike is cancelled for tomorrow, does this mean the industrial action is stopped and they would have to ballot again in the future?

I'm not an expert in IR but afaik no, there would have to be a more substantial change rather than talks just going well. However the Union can issue a notice of withdrawl of industrial action at any point if they feel that it is not warranted anymore or in order to progress talks.

Danielvarian1

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I'm not an expert in IR but afaik no, there would have to be a more substantial change rather than talks just going well. However the Union can issue a notice of withdrawl of industrial action at any point if they feel that it is not warranted anymore or in order to progress talks.

So they can basically just decide to strike at any time as long as a weeks notice is given?

LeChienMefiant

Remember that Luas striked 12 times:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/over-at-last-luas-strike-finished-as-drivers-get-pay-increases-of-18pc-34770783.html

trellheim

any news ? nothing from Ingrid yet

Danielvarian1

trellheim wrote: »

any news ? nothing from Ingrid yet

Nothing online as of yet, drawn out it seems, don’t know if that’s a good sign or a bad sign.

ElNino

No agreement reached in talks. Strike goes ahead.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0711/977836-ryanair/

trellheim

Strike is on

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1017086362653208576

ha ha op above beat me to it

Danielvarian1

trellheim wrote: »

Strike is on

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1017086362653208576

Time for me to book aerlingus tickets to cover ourselves for the 24th going to Rome, one way.

Bob24

ElNino wrote: »

No agreement reached in talks. Strike goes ahead.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0711/977836-ryanair/

As expected. Now the next interesting thing will be tomorrow to see how large the nuisance power of full time employees is and if as announced no more that 30 flights will be cancelled.

trellheim

Wonder where they'll be picketing . dont forget if they picket the roundabout it'll cause mayhem

billie1b

trellheim wrote: »

Wonder where they'll be picketing . dont forget if they picket the roundabout it'll cause mayhem

Picketing the main airport roundabout! Hope it causes mayhem

Brendan Bendar

billie1b wrote: »

Picketing the main airport roundabout! Hope it causes mayhem

Whoooy?

L1011

Danielvarian1 wrote: »

So they can basically just decide to strike at any time as long as a weeks notice is given?

And the strike notice is otherwise legally valid; e.g. strikes have been injuncted due to the ballot being fundamentally faulty.

Spanish Eyes

I love Ryanair, honestly whatever you may think, it works. Has a formula, and if you obey the rules it's game on.

Now.... I'm not so sure. Going to Espana in Sep, always take the Ryanair flight because of timings. Took AL a few times, and there were ALWAYS delays, sub three hours obv which killed me. Like it was organised, but probably not, I'd better be pragmatic here and I know they have a good record generally.

So I might change loyalties to AL now.

But a few years ago I wouldn't travel with AL because of all THEIR strikes. Jayzis.

Mebuntu

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I love Ryanair, honestly whatever you may think, it works. Has a formula, and if you obey the rules it's game on.

Now.... I'm not so sure. Going to Espana in Sep, always take the Ryanair flight because of timings. Took AL a few times, and there were ALWAYS delays, sub three hours obv which killed me. Like it was organised, but probably not, I'd better be pragmatic here and I know they have a good record generally.

So I might change loyalties to AL now.

But a few years ago I wouldn't travel with AL because of all THEIR strikes. Jayzis.

If your friend was being attacked would you support your friend or look the other way and seek out a new friend